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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:27:52 AM | Hello, I am glad to know you, I am a very optimistic about the girls, I am also the first time to make friends online, you do ? But I am very happy to get to know you, your job is to do what it ? I know you want to? you can write to me, this is my private address：http://YourFriends.Name/en/lang177645about_weiqing.html (direct link to open this, you can find me) I am looking forward to Your letter. | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:29:21 AM | | Hello, I am glad to know you, I am a very optimistic about the girls, I am also the first time to make friends online, you do ? But I am very happy to get to know you, your job is to do what it ? I know you want to? you can write to me, this is my private address：http://YourFriends.Name/en/lang177645about_weiqing.html (direct link to open this, you can find me) I am looking forward to Your letter. | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:45:59 AM |
Look I think there are healthy levels of jealousy. It tells you a few things
1. that you actually have some degree of feelings for a person
2. that possibly you or your partner's behavior isnt what it should be
spellbreaker, I'll disagree with you, and agree with Pumpkyn on this one.
What she speaks of is often termed "positive possessiveness". No one wants to lose what they value most in this world. It's a normal human reaction to defend against the loss, or threat of loss of something of great value.
Case in point, we all grieve over the loss of a loved one. Why? Because of the loss.
The threat of loss is sufficient to cause a human to display a defense mechanism to the threat of a potential loss.
Of course there are many levels of it. That's where the dispute comes in... | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/14/2008 8:31:21 AM |
What she speaks of is often termed "positive possessiveness". No one wants to lose what they value most in this world. It's a normal human reaction to defend against the loss, or threat of loss of something of great value.
Sorry but people can’t be possessed or own by someone else. This is backward thinking and silly. Jealousy is also a backward type of emotion insomuch that is it counterproductive and emotionally unhealthy for the one who feels this “negativity” and then project it on to the target source. Positive and negative matter reject each other.
You term which is “positive possessiveness” is really a double genitive
A phrasal construction in English in which possession is indicated by the word of followed by the possessive form of a noun or pronoun, as in a relative of mine or a friend of Pat's. Also called double possessive. See Usage Note at "of".
The key word here is possession of other person. Which again is backward and silly. We again have no right to own another person which is what jealousy represent. In short this object belongs to me and anyone who threaten to take it away from me will cause an emotion and reaction of Jealousy.. | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/14/2008 8:46:27 AM |
Sorry but people can’t be possessed or own by someone else. This is backward thinking and silly. Jealousy is also a backward type of emotion insomuch that is it counterproductive and emotionally unhealthy for the one who feels this “negativity” and then project it on to the target source.
You have a myopic view of what we're are discussing. The term I wrote is a clinical term for a behaviour in response to an emotion. Never did I mention that anyone "owns" anyone. Get real. Everybody knows that they can't be owned.
Positive and negative matter reject each other.
Play with magnets much??? I'm thinking that you failed science 101.... | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/14/2008 3:18:39 PM | spellbreaker . ... I must agree with verityone and pumpkyn on this one. There is such thing as healthy and normal level of 'jealousy', it doesn't mean we should experience that, but it is just part of normal, human emotion. It is equally silly to think, that all sorts of levels of'anger' are destructive. Feeling of anger is normal and can be healthy if expressed safely.
No one has achieved a level of Buddha's mind here on this earth, that's why we are here, and to expect to be untouched, we are only humans. When things go out of control, and you get this knot in your stomach, then you know one has surpassed the healthy level of jealousy or anger. I don't think neither pumpkyn or verityone are making references to a possessive level of jealousy, simply put they are talking about - a kind of emotion that goes with being infatuated with someone and feeling vulnerable. Nothing is black and white, it takes patience to decipher what one means by certain terms, we are using 'words' which can be limiting when expressing the complexity of human psyche. It should be understood in the right concept. LG | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 8:15:10 AM |
You have a myopic view of what we're are discussing. The term I wrote is a clinical term for a behaviour in response to an emotion. Never did I mention that anyone "owns" anyone. Get real. Everybody knows that they can't be owned.
Sorry but people who control others do in fact feels a type of ownership.
myopic:
(n.) A visual defect in which distant objects appear blurred because their…
(n.) Lack of discernment or long-range perspective in thinking or planning:…
verityone that is a very interesting word you used and thank you. But please allow me to get back with you later on this statement. Also I have google this and found no links to positive possessiveness as a clinical term. So may I ask you were you received or found this information?
Types of Jealousy
Jealousy can be best divided into two main categories: normal and abnormal. As already mentioned, everyone experiences jealousy at some point, no matter how saintly they are. Dr. Hupka notes that labels can be attached to every type of situation that causes jealousy. Some of these include:
Romantic jealousy: Dr. Hupka and many others believe that romantic jealousy is probably
the most frequently experienced type of normal jealousy. In fact, according to PBS Nightly Business Reporter, the first fight romantic couples have usually involves jealousy, although couples usually move onto fighting about financial issues later on. Interestingly, a 2004 study published in Evolutionary Psychology found that, when asked about sexual versus emotional infidelity, respondents of both sexes reported more jealousy about their partner’s emotional infidelity.
Work or Power jealousy: Simply enough, this form strikes people who are jealous about a "missed" promotion, salary level or other work-related issue.
Friend jealousy: As mentioned in the section about adolescent jealousy, people are often fearful of "losing" a friend to an interloper. Family jealousy: Sibling rivalry is one trademark characteristic of this type of jealousy.
Abnormal jealousy is often described by any one of a number of adjectives, including morbid, psychotic, pathological, delusional or anxious jealousy. According to Dr. Hupka, abnormal jealousy can be attributed to common issues including extreme insecurity, immaturity and being a "control freak." In some cases, however, it is due to a mental illness, such as paranoia or schizophrenia, or a chemical imbalance in the brain.
Paranoia and schizophrenia can cause delusions of unfaithfulness, causing a jealous reaction. Extreme sensitivity can also contribute to jealousy in instances where a person perceives a threat to the relationship when there's no threat present. "It is not easy to determine when it changes into neurotic jealousy," says Dr. Hupka.
"The latter is usually associated with the exercise of excessive control over the mate, who has unrealistic concerns about the mate’s faithfulness." He goes on to note that sufferers of this form of abnormal jealousy often exhibit behaviors such as calling the mate repeatedly to "check in" and going through the mate’s telephone and address books. Unrealistic concerns about the mate’s faithfulness." He goes on to note that sufferers of this form of abnormal jealousy often exhibit behaviors such as calling the mate repeatedly to "check in" and going through the mate’s telephone and address books.
I found a lot of information on unhealthy i.e. abnormal jealousy but not much on normal jealousy. I stand on what I stated that any concerns should be voiced to the person that one feels jealous of. Discussing it and bringing it out to the open is what makes it healthy and constructive in a relationship but projecting it on someone else (your feeling of jealousy) doesn’t. Again communication about your concerns and feeling no matter what type (normal or abnormal jealousy) makes for a good healthy and long lasting relationship.
Healthy jealousy
A person who voices his concern over having his girlfriend go out with a bunch of guys or seeing another man with her is also part of a healthy relationship. Oftentimes, a man is just looking out for his girlfriend's well-being and women usually respect that. They may even be insulted if you don't say anything.
In ending lets agree that there is normal and abnormal jealousy. Now my question would be do you know the different and how does one go about when dealing with both kind? | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 8:42:00 AM |
a kind of emotion that goes with being infatuated with someone and feeling vulnerable.
And of course Dr. Hupka agrees with you which is why he views this type of jealousy normal and so would I. If this was brought to my attention when in a “normal healthy” relationship I would validate her feeling with supportive encouraging confirmation as to why they may feel this way or I do. And I in fact might have done something to bring this feeling i.e. emotion to being. We are all human and each one makes mistakes and errors. But again by taking about your feeling and concerns will only bring about a more healthy and loving relationship. For whatever reason this statement (open communication with one's self and the person one is Jealous of) was been omitted and replace by healthy and unhealthy jealousy or normal and abnormal jealousy. In short it would be more productive and encouraging to discuss one’s feeling and the concerns of the other person then trying to define it at this time. This can be deal with later if and ever it becomes "abnormal and abusive". But one must also be careful insomuch that “normal” jealousy does and can escalate to “abnormal” jealousy. | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 9:51:46 AM |
The one that had the biggest issue with my flirting, despite knowing about it well beforehand, was my ex fiancé. She said she was cool with it, long as I knew the line of demarcation. Still, she harped about it for the longest time, each and every time we were out. Took her about a year to finally come to terms with it, and after that it was smooth sailing. There was never a third wheel feeling as far as I recall, simply because when we were out, while I was busy being me, she had her crew of onlookers chatting her up in the meantime. Often times we'd show up together, and leave together, but throughout the night we seldom saw each other. We were busy socializing with people we didn't see just about every day (like we saw each other).
Now this is what I would call an interesting night out with my man .... watching you be you.
I'd have to wonder though, if my SO felt like a third wheel while I was out being me, what does that say about her ability to make new friends? Hmm...
I am not a jealous woman at all but I definitely don't like to go out with men who is only out with himself and his ego ... perhaps that is why she felt like a third wheel ...
Your, your ego ... and her in the background watching. As I said I am not jealous but I can spot insecurity a mile away. Personally I like men who have enough confidence that they don't need to get all the women in the room looking at them. Just my opinion that's all ...
Savona | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 10:20:09 AM | | No one deserves abuse. Silent treatment is the worse form of emotional abuse you can do. Physical abuse is not acceptable. Any type of abuse is shown by red flags in the beginning of a relationship. How the person reacts in a grocery line, driving the car while riding with them and their manerisms indicates how they will treat you in the relationship. Look at their families if you are able to. If a person is negative is an indicator of abuse. | |
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10of6
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Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 63 | |
| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 10:24:38 AM | | ^^^^ Are you telling me that you can accurately assess a person's makeup by how they act in a grocery store, or by driving in traffic? I thought this hooey was disproven years ago...the hooey that said [ethnic group] behaves this way or that because they have physical attributes like [name your prejudice here]. It is a good bet that if your date mistreats a waiter, or projects anger upon him/her, there is something underneath that you should approach with caution; yet without investigation, looks can be deceiving. | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 12:50:32 PM |
I am not a jealous woman at all but I definitely don't like to go out with men who is only out with himself and his ego ... perhaps that is why she felt like a third wheel ...
Your, your ego ... and her in the background watching. As I said I am not jealous but I can spot insecurity a mile away. Personally I like men who have enough confidence that they don't need to get all the women in the room looking at them. Just my opinion that's all ...
Savona
Savona -- That was an interesting musing to be sure, but I'm puzzled why or even HOW so many people associate socializing (including flirting) has anything to do with insecurity and/or ego? Or that it somehow translates into a lack of confidence to be noticed while out in public? To me, it seems the weak wristed, de facto response if there's nothing else to say about something one doesn't understand at all.
Call me crazy, but I fail to see the point or relevance of being with someone often (let's say all the time) in private, and then doing the same in public. When I'm out with friends, these are people I generally don't see every day as I would my SO, and this is why I lean more towards spending time with them and not her while I'm out. The oft heard term "social butterfly" has it's purpose in these scenarios. Besides, I don't see much point in attracting someone to you, then becoming someone totally different just to suit them. Sitting there side by side with your SO all night, never really socializing or flirting...yawn. That would never be a life I'd live, willingly or otherwise. If that's who she'd expect me to be - some wallflower or lap dog...then she'd be sorely disappointed.
Just my opinion that's all...
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 12:52:43 PM | Some behaviors that show the possibility that a dating partner may eventually become physically violence may include extreme jealousy, blaming others for all problems, never being able to admit to wrongdoing, cruelty to animals, and holding rigid beliefs about sex roles for men and women
Id agree with this aspect of your post OP.
A man who shows care and compassion and consideration for a woman because he's capable of it...and for no other reason than he can is a man to be with.
Puts her needs not above...but atleast in the same place as his own.
Usually when people behave to extreme within relationships (as this is the topic) it tells you a couple of things.
* They're too immature to understand relationships and love are about giving and receiving. Self absorbed. And in my age group Id expect that to not be an issue
* Its pathological and abusive and striking out ie. controlling
Sometimes it doesnt matter how much a woman cares for a man...she has to cut him loose because he's completely out of control. It may be just the current circumstances he's under...or it may be deeply ingrained from his childhood from controlling parents. You can tell because the behavior should cease once the stressor is gone ie. financial or job loss etc...but if it doesnt...there it is.
Its one of the most painful things anyone can go through and there's a whirlwind of emotions associated with giving up someone like that and you display all the anguish of grief. Grief is normal, personal and not defined by a time.
It isnt considered a problem unless it requires medical intervention.
And most importantly...there's a specific category called anticipatory grief. Thats normal too...shows all the signs of normal erratic grief but you move through the process much much faster than most other people.
If you’re a normally resilient person, you may feel just as much pain over a loss as someone whose normal state is depressive or emotionally vulnerable.
So if for example...someone threatens to leave, purposefully gives impression they are or to punish you...it will incite the exact same reaction. Again...back to that controlling behavior.
Importantly though... pathalogical controlling behavior doesnt have to be external...sometimes its internal and focused...comes across as silently rational but is lethal and irrational. Internal rage, withdrawl etc. Comes in the form of "tests" and delight in other people's anguish.
So if a man shows a tendency towards controlling behavior...leave
And always look at the quality of people's previous relationships. It speaks volumes.
And is why I dont get involved with people who have issues with an ex. More than one, its a guarantee somethings "wrong" with that person because they are the common denominator. | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 1:25:21 PM |
So if for example...someone threatens to leave, purposefully gives impression they are or to punish you...it will incite the exact same reaction. Again...back to that controlling behavior.
Kyn -- that scenario is exactly what happened between my ex and I. She kept threatening to leave if I didn't toe the line (which ended up very one sided towards the end). I told her after working out a dispute months earlier that, if she threatened to leave again I'd help her pack, 'cause I'm not gonna live under that veil forever. She did it again, and was beside herself that I held fast to my words. I didn't help her pack per se, but I just got up off my chair and told her if that's how she feels, then we're done...and I won't even try to stop her. I wasn't gonna listen to that threat any longer.
So who's controlling whom then? According to the words just before that snippet, she had to "cut me loose" because I was outta control then? I'd like to know how you'd work that in. How me, not wanting to listen to her threats to leave is in any way my "completely out of control" behaviour?
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 1:26:58 PM | ""The oft heard term "social butterfly" has it's purpose in these scenarios. ""
Being a social butterfly is fun, and no I don't need to hang on a man's shirt tails when I go out. I do love to work a room and see my friends and such ... only I find it disrespectful to ignore the one I am with. Flirting to me is not socializing, it is sexual. So maybe we have different meanings.
Sorry OP to go off topic. Truly. For some reason some posters always take a thread and bring it all the way back to them. I think it is a way to get attention, just like ""Flirting"" hahaha
I am not sure that jealousy is an early sign of physical abuse. I don't get jealous, if a man were acting in a fashion to TRY to get me jealous ... well I just walk away and don't look back. It only shows me lack of respect for me, and I really am not digging that kind of behaviour. Trying to hurt me? Ahhhh no that just isn't nice.
Savona | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 1:36:58 PM | Kyn -- that scenario is exactly what happened between my ex and I.
If you take a look at your timeline there BDJ...
I dont personally think either of you were to "blame" per se. Its not ONE criteria.
To me it looks like it was simply a sequence of events based on not being able to resolve things through communication. Which is why its soooooo important in a relationship.
There's a difference between normal conflict and communication and resolution which is where the issue lay...not the sequence of events afterwards. That was a snowball effect by the looks of it IMHO
But remember...this thread is about ABUSE...and there are many other factors included in that type of pathology
* Communication skills; verbal, physical abuse and passive aggressiveness
* Sexual problems
* Childhood abuse and history
* Previous relationships
* Blame
Throw in other factors and its a pretty sure bet they're an abuser.
Say you know someone who had an irrational moment during a conflict...lets use a men fighting for example...rather than a male/female scenario.
One fight under extreme circumstances doesnt mean a thing.
If there's a consistent history of it...then its likely anger issues
See the difference? | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 1:42:42 PM |
Importantly though... pathalogical controlling behavior doesnt have to be external...sometimes its internal and focused...comes across as silently rational but is lethal and irrational. Internal rage, withdrawl etc. Comes in the form of "tests" and delight in other people's anguish.
Sometimes people will cut you only to see if you will bleed.
And always look at the quality of people's previous relationships. It speaks volumes.
And is why I dont get involved with people who have issues with an ex. More than one, its a guarantee somethings "wrong" with that person because they are the common denominator.
I would be cautious of using that as a barometer.
They are only one half of the equation, not necessarily the common denominator.
Ex: A rape victim. One half of the equation, but not a common denominator. Same goes for relationships.
The dynamic between two people is always based on the the scenario, and the individuals. | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 1:48:03 PM | Red flags are great, if you know them. but, most of the time they do not start coming out until you are emotionally vested in the relationship and by that time you are "blinded by love". DV does not start with a first date and having the crap beat out of you b/c you spilt the wine. It is a slow process that can take months and even years at times.
I think once you have been in a DV relationship you swing to the other side and eveything w/ a new relationship becomes a red flag. The idea is to be in the middle where you look for the red flags, but do not think every action is that of DV.
It is a long time to de-programs from the years of violence. | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/15/2008 1:49:53 PM | Sometimes people will cut you only to see if you will bleed.
Exactly my point. Nobody would do that deliberately. Normal people dont do that.
I wouldnt do it. There would have to be a very specific reason if I accidentally cut someone. Like if they needed time out and didnt hear that cos they were already hurting.
You cant say sorry to someone if they're hurting so much and so self absorbed they dont want to hear it which is why you let them go which they didnt listen to either.
And regardless of whatever happens after that...
If someone just wants to retaliate I will engage them back in the exact same way.
And as to whether or not someone else would...well you could only find out if that was something that was discussed but if you dont...meh...not much you could do.
Comes back to communication.
I would be cautious of using that as a barometer.
They are only one half of the equation, not necessarily the common denominator
Id be happy to use it as a barometer because they ARE the common denominator
But like I said...lots of criteria. Not one thing. | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/16/2008 7:25:38 AM |
And always look at the quality of people's previous relationships. It speaks volumes.
Most people understand that past performance will dictate future behavior. The only problem here is getting this information insomuch that those who have a history of dysfunctional relationships will hide or deny the “real” problem(s) associated with that relationship. Some people who were in sociopathic relationship seek out those ex’s to see if they too were treated badly. Most reported back having experienced the same type of manipulation tactics lies and abuse. The only consistency i.e. red flag is that most will play the “blame game”. These type of individuals do what is called “projections” stating that their partners cheated on them (only to find out they were the cheaters in the relationship) or abuse them (again only to get confirmation sometimes that they are the abusers) and so on... Most people who were unfortunate enough to get involved with a sociopathic person learned that most will never know the full extend of their past relationships or life and never will get any type of personal closure regarding this person. Most would and do want to know “the whole story” concerning both parties but sometimes realistically this doesn’t happen. Most of us begin to learn that the only way to prevent and/or protect one self against dysfunctional relationships is to know and look for “red flags” in the beginning of a new relationship. Which is what this theme is all about. In short to be forewarned is to be forearmed. | |
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| Warning signs:Physical abuse in a relationship rarely starts out as severe violence.
Posted: 11/16/2008 12:33:14 PM | I have been cleaning and purging my 'oasis' today, and run into some readings, covered in fluffy dust, I found it useful. Whenever I clean my 'oasis' I run into some interesting newspaper magazine, and I end up reading, procrastination on my side, yeah...
THE RULES OF BEING HUMAN:
This is rule no#7
Others are merely mirrors of you.
You cannot love or hate something about another person unless it reflects something yo love or hate about yourself.
And also, and excerpt, from the teachings of Eckhart Tolle,
Enter the Now from Wherever You are -06/07
Love/Hate Relationships
Unless and until you access the consciousness frequency of presence, all relationships, and particularly intimate relationships, are deeply flawed and ultimately dysfunctional. They may seem perfect for a while, such as when you are "in love', but invariably that apparent perfection gets disrupted as arguments, conflicts, dissatisfaction, and emotional or even physical violence occur with increasing frequency. It seems that most "love relationships" become love/hate relationship before long. Love can then turn into savage attack, feelings of hostility,or complete withdrawal of affection at the flick of a switch. This is considered normal. The relationship then oscillates for a while, a few months or a a few years, between the polarities of love and hate, and it gives you as much pleasure as it gives you pain. It is not uncommon for couples to become addicted to those cycles. Their drama makes them feel alive. When a balance between the positive/negative polarities is lost and the negative destructive cycles occur with increasing frequency and intensity, which tend to happen sooner or later, then it well not be long before the relationship finally collapses.
It may appear that if you cold only eliminate the negative or destructive cycles, then all would be well and the relationship would flower beautifully- alas, this is not possible. The polarities are mutually interdependent. You cannot have one without the other. The positive already contains within itself they as yet unmanifested negative. Both are in fact different aspects of the same dysfunction. I am speaking here of what is commonly called romantic love relationships, not of true love, which has no opposite because it arises from beyond mind.
Love as a continuous state is as yet very rare - as rate as conscious human beings. Brief and elusive glimpses of love, however, are possible whenever there is a gap in the stream of mind.
The conclusion is that as long as you are human, you are going to go through those life lessons, but the pain you experience suppose to serve you as a wake up call. In fact, whenever you look around, how many do you see in so called "holly relationship" - these are based on love. The special relationships Love/Hate relationship derive from mind.
As soon as you enter the relationship, sooner of later, the unhealed aspects of yourself will be brought to light, is is inevitable. How you both learn to help each other to heal is the matter of your conscious mind. If you are unconscious, it will become negative, destructive, and abusive, it there is more consciousness in the relationship, there are higher chances of being 'healed'. Both of you, male and female, or partners if you are in homosexual relationship, are going to experience the dark side of yourself. Both of you are human, and will need the healing in the relationship. | |
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10of6
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Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 75 | |
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