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| LOVE: What is love and WHAT are it's values?
Posted: 11/11/2008 9:25:30 AM |
Quazi: Where were you when I needed you.you are absolutely correct I wish I had known you before as a friend.From what I have been told by her friends that she does fear from me.And I keep on defending my self that I'm not on the contrary I fear from her about when she is going to leave home.I'm a 100% sure that she gave me her heart because I was different from the rest she knew and I never betrayed that all.I remember from the last time when she asked to give her support in order for her to get mental help,which I did but when she got better she went back to her boyfriend.And that puzzled me.Thinking that I might have done some thing wrong by her.Quazi I feel every thing you say is from experienced it is what you went through and I truly believe that.And I hope for the future we keep contact.I am very pleased to listen to what you say it is different from other people who usualy express their opinion rather than knowledge.Why I would like to hear more from you is that now it had been two months she had been back with her boyfriend and I know she is going to call up on me for some thing but I need to be ready.Yes she is a master of deception I don't mean it in a nasty way.I do understand she behaves like such because of her illness.
And I did assured her that I will always be there for her no matter what. I like to hear from you mare Quazi and once again thank you from my heart.
ok Mick.....I'm going to tell you what's happening in your situation....ready?
Your wife will have been brought up with "chaos" in her life....arguing, fighting, drinking, abuse.....there was always a ruckus going on.....right so far? This is "normal" for borderlines "chaos" is normal.
I'm thinking that you're a responsible guy, who loved his wife and children....and wanted to live peacefully. She wasn't getting her "chaos" fix, so she started leaving home, to create "chaos"....make you beg her to come home......how am I doing? This goes on for a number of years. Then it isn't good enough... "predictible". She meets a man of her own culture....he convinces her that she needs to be with her "own kind".
She leaves you.....
Now, she has a boyfriend to have "chaos" with as well as YOU! All the comings and goings are feeding the "chaos" need.
In her defense, she does not realize why she does what she does...this is what people find SO hard to believe. If there is no "chaos" some must be created, or the borderline gets frightened, because things seem "scary".
As for the situation, you can react in one of a few ways.....you can let things continue as usual, with a little more knowledge about what's going on, and that you need to help YOU.
Or, you can try to change things by saying NO when she asks for help. If you go this route, I would expect fireworks more spectacular than any New Year's Eve display.
I hope this helps mick....and please keep me posted. I will try to help if I can.
Quaz | |
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| LOVE: What is love and WHAT are it's values?
Posted: 11/15/2008 4:48:15 AM | | Quaz: You are absolutely correct.Yes she has been raised by an iresponsible mother and a step father.who she told me that he used to stick his tongue down her throat and used to make obscene remarks about her boobs.she did have large breast when I first met her.and she used to complain a lot about them.I did supported her in getting plastic surgery reducing the size of her breast. At the age of 17 years she sent away from home because of all the beating she was getting from her step father,she did tell me he was very cruel to her,used to grab her by the hair and swing around the room if she did not do what she was told to do.Her life basically whe she was living home.she had to feed the animals before going to school.Then after school she has to clean up the den.Any way she did not know who her real father is father because her mother continue telling her lies.So basicaly at the age of 17 she left home and never returned since.She started abusing illegal substance and involved with real bad people.She was introduced to a red light district.for 4 years, Until I spotted her in the night club I was working at.She looked so innocent and she appeared not to belong in the area she was in .I took her away from that area thinking of just helping her and nothing further and i did tell her that I do not wanted to be tied down in a relation ship we were good friends and I helped her a lot even found an appartment furnished it for her and said to her that she is on her own now .But if ever you need me I'm a phone call away.It was matter of days I was told by a friend that she brought back her boyfriend who he was her pimp.I was not happy about the matter so I ignord all her calls.Until one day she was crying for help and I atteneded her place where her pimp was belting her.I took care of the matter and he never came near her ever since. | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/15/2008 6:56:50 AM | Breaking it down...
Are there two kinds of love?
There are far more than two kinds of love, Mick. More than all of us combined online and in the world can list for you. Each person loves in a thousand different ways, based one an infinite number of variables and filters and factors - such as... your experiences of love that occurred while you were in uterum (i.e. womb) your interpretations of the feeling or sense of love and safety as a child (or the lack there of), your first crush, first kiss, first contentment while being sexually intimate, your pleasure factors while giving love or receiving it, etc.,
one for the partner and one for the children
Of course! This goes with out saying does it not? You become intimate with your mate, your spouse your life partner because you love them in many ways as an adult, as your physical mate, as your friend, as your partner, as your beloved.
Your love for your child is purely inherent in the part of you that forms and creates and is the beginning life essence of your child. The you that is inside of you when melded in love with your life partner to create the child that combines the life essence of you both will of course be loved deeply and richly yet far differently than your love for your partner and mate.
does love have limits,boundaries
And now your question becomes a harder thing to answer doesn't it? The great blues musician Duke Tomato sings a song about when is Love ever enough, the lyrics go on to tell of his own personal journey to jail to free a nephew that the entire family had abandoned, but he didn't, he couldn't, 'why not?' because when you love - when you REALLY genuinely love enough is NEVER enough.
That's the love parents have for children.
Is it the love we have for others we choose to share our lives with? Well, certainly in today's modern microwave society we are learning that sometimes "enough is enough". Divorce is readily available when loving just becomes too big of a hassle. When the going gets tough... bail! Not something our grandparents had the pleasure of being able to so easily do.
I'm not saying divorce is wrong. I personally cannot say that. For me, it was the ONLY answer for all of us, the children included to live happily.
So, yes, sometimes love has boundaries.
And love can have endings.
Because sometimes you love - and it still isn't healthy, or right, or safe, or a good place mentally, physically or emotionally to be.
That's when love's boundaries must be enforced.
you love them till eternity even though there was a break down of relationship that love would not die as long as they live.
This was certainly once the ideal thought, yes, but not so much any longer. We've become more aware of abuse - domestic and physical. And additionally, we've learned that occasionally the feelings we thought were real and love would last we grow and we mature and we are no longer so young and inexperienced or immature and we understand who we lusted after at 18, isn't who we wish to grow old with at age 47...
It's sad, but it is simply the truth.
My question is, can any gender claims to falls in-n-out of love so easy
Of course not. Sex or gender has no legitimate relevence to this behavior. It's absurd (silly, stupid, ignorant) to make such a statement.
I am trying to understand my ex partner how could she claim that she is in love with her partner and yet had 5 fall outs with him in a period of two year relationship with him
At last, Mick I think we get to the truth and the heart of what your real issue is and it doesn't have much to do with what love is, or the love adults have for children, or even the boundaries or limits of loving.
It appears you're trying to understand a woman and her choices.
I don't have any ability to guess or to understand if this woman WAS your wife and is no longer....perhaps she divorced you - in spite of your belief that love and marriage lasts til death, hers didn't, she left you and she became involved with a not so nice as you man (in your opinion) and now....he also has a problem, he abuses chemicals - drugs possibly alcohol and you can't understand why when she's had five issues with him and his abuse she stays with him but left you?
Would that be the correct guess?
I don't have any ability to know that, Mick.
And if I did?
I'd be sitting with Cowboy sipping fruity punch drinks on that island full of bronzed and buff cabana boys...wearing nothing but my spurs.
The thing is this...love is what it is.
And you
or I
or anyone
do not have the right - legally
to prevent this woman from making her own choices about who to love,
when
where
or how.
It's her right.
And it really isn't any of your business or mine, to judge her and what she chooses to do in the name of love, as long as it's legal and harms no one.
She's on her own.
I suggest - you focus more on you and less on her and what her choices are about love.
Good luck, Mick | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/22/2008 3:38:55 AM | | GoneSailinBabe: Thank you for your input.and some very interesting information as well.Yes you are correct she chose to be where she is at the moment,but you did say as long as no harm is done.Well in the last 5 fall outs she had with her boyfriend,I had to help her out mentally and financially.although I did convince my self to say no to her,if when ever she comes to me for ant thing,but I couldn't sustain that thought.I tend to go soft towards her,But she does come out with beauty one's(stories)and she knows that I do go soft.On one occasion.When she was testing me whether I will take her back or not,she sent me this text I would not go in full details but what she did say is,she used the shepherd and the lost sheep (I the shepherd and she is the sheep) the sheep was told by another sheep that the grass is greener over the side so the sheep believed it one year gone-by then the sheep could not find any grass over the side.the shepherd then went out looking for the sheep and found the sheep then brought the sheep back home where the sheep have found no greener grass other than home and lived there happy ever after.When i got this txt from her it did bring tears in my eyes and my soft heart did take control of me it was very touchy.So ultimately I did went out of my way to forget what she did to me and concentrate on helping her from my heart and thinking that she would stand-by those words to stay at home with me and the children.Unfortunately that was not the case since she got better she decided to leave back to her boyfriend.And I did that 5 times I don't know what will I do in the future because I do love her unconditionally.20 years is a long time to forget in short period of time even though I did find some one else ,but was not happy and I did not want to break the woman's heart in keeping the truth away from her that I have nothing for her and thinking being with her may take my mind off my ex.It is very hard for me to explain why do I keep taking her back even though she did a lot of bad things.this is why love have no boundaries in my case . | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/22/2008 3:53:24 AM | | We live a society where love, commitment, and family values are all screwed up Just look around! I'm in my early 40's and I see and hear about so many divorces, friends, co-workers, even people on this site. It's difficult to find anyone, man or woman with good family values. I'm sure there out there, but there are probably more out there with drug issues, taking some type of medciation to control their mood swings. What I find funny about this sight is this; just click on a few peoples profile. They say their honest, trustworthy, loyal, Blah-Blah-Blah. But then they indicate that their divorced! Your question about love - love comes and goes. In todays world, you can love someone today and hate them tomorrow! | |
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| LOVE: What is love and WHAT are it's values?
Posted: 11/22/2008 4:12:34 AM | | HI Quazi I'm sorry I haven't kept in touch with you for the last ten days.It just that I haven't been feeling well emotionally I had bad anxiety attacks and they did go on for long period of time some times it lasts up to two to three hours daily. I some times get anxiety attacks when I wake up and some times at night after I finish work .I know it puts the children under a lot of stress.But I did explain to children that I am going through difficult time and they need to bear with me and ignore me when I do silly things some I might break glass plates while I'm doing the dishes un-intentionally because some times nothing seem to work when I have my anxiety attacks.And some times I get the urge to call her by phone.thinking there is some thing is wrong.may be she is in need of money for food and cigaretts because from what she told me her boyfriend and his father they usually take hers and he buys her nothing always complaining that he can not afford to buy her even a $2 garment but he does supply her with drugs actually they share it together and some times they argue who had the most. I know from previous occasion I used to make the first call.But now I'm thinking it is becoming a dominance game.I might be insane for thinking like that.I'm so confused of what to do. | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/22/2008 9:15:41 AM | Mick, my friend....
I'm going to tell you a little story, and then I'll explain it....My Mom and I both had what your wife has...keep that in mind.
Mom and I were taking a trip by car to the U.S. To get to the U.S. we had to go though a tunnel that was underneath a lake (something like the "chunnel") as we were waiting to go through the tunnel Mom said to me...." Did you know that this tunnel is under a lake?" I said "no..why?" she said "it's very old, and sometimes leaks...looks like it might cave in.".....Right after she said that, it was our turn to go through the tunnel. We came out the other side, and I was sweating, and dizzy and scared to death.
I looked at Mom, and I said "you did that on purpose". She said "I couldn't be scared, I had to concentrate on driving."
She knew that as soon as I was scared and anxious, she could relax...someone else was worrying for her.
Your wife is doing the same thing, mick, and you're swallowing it hook, line and sinker.
I know that you are frightened for her, but this could kill you. You need to get more counselling, mick....she's not with you, and she's telling you all these horrible things, and your mind is imagining the worst, but you can't do anything, because you aren't there.
You have three children with you, you need to think about yourself, and them.
Could something bad happen to her? YES. But will you worrying about it stop it? NO!
Please go to a Doctor, and tell them what you've told me....they will understand. I was the same way with my Mom until I was about 35 years old. Then I told her that she had to take care of herself....that I couldn't carry her anxiety around any more.
You are driving yourself to distraction....I know how that feels....
Quaz | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/23/2008 8:07:18 AM |
helping her from my heart and thinking that she would stand-by those words to stay at home with me and the children.Unfortunately that was not the case since she got better she decided to leave back to her boyfriend.And I did that 5 times I don't know what will I do in the future because I do love her unconditionally.20 years is a long time to forget in short period of time even though I did find some one else ,but was not happy and I did not want to break the woman's heart in keeping the truth away from her that I have nothing for her and thinking being with her may take my mind off my ex.It is very hard for me to explain why do I keep taking her back even though she did a lot of bad things.this is why love have no boundaries in my case .
mick..
I've been in your spot....it's not that your love has no boundaries.....
YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS IS WHAT YOU DESERVE.
If you hit a dog with a stick enough times, it will stand there and take it. That becomes NORMAL for the dog. I knew that NORMAL, just like you know it now. It took a long time to convince myself that I deserved respect, that I had not deserved the treatement I got from my family, or SO's.
It's very scary breaking away from NORMAL. But if NORMAL isn't right, it is so worth it to break away.
She is the mother of your children, the love of your life. But she could destroy all of you if you don't put a stop to this.
Don't take my word for it....I'm not a Doctor....I'm just a friend.
Quaz | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/23/2008 8:10:18 AM | | There's one thing I don't understand about the popular perception of "romantic" love: why must it always be exclusive? | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/23/2008 8:14:24 AM |
There's one thing I don't understand about the popular perception of "romantic" love: why must it always be exclusive?
Your profile says "must not be married"....why? | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/23/2008 8:17:41 AM |
Your profile says "must not be married"....why?
Because in my experience women who are already married/in a relationship tend to be looking for a "friend" and nothing more, and I'm not interested in being "the friend". | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/23/2008 8:21:47 AM |
Because in my experience women who are already married/in a relationship tend to be looking for a "friend" and nothing more, and I'm not interested in being "the friend".
What if she wanted to have an affair? | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/23/2008 8:32:42 AM |
What if she wanted to have an affair?
I don't deal in "what-if's" I deal in reality.
From my experience, if a woman is genuinely interested, then she'll try to avoid mentioning that she's married.
Marriage in itself is a monogamous arrangement. If a person wants to have open relationships, they have no reason to get married. They should have de-facto relationships. | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/23/2008 10:07:16 AM | "Reality"?....I'd say more "perfect world".
And I see a couple of "if's" in what you said.
De-facto relationships can be monogamous....and as for open marriages....sometimes there are benefits other than sexual, for both parties. | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/23/2008 7:51:43 PM | This is only my thought, so please everyone- don't be offended. I truly believe that love is a very strong feeling that you have for someone in which you are constantly thinking of him/her. It's the ability to work together through anything with constant communication and using each others strengths to accomplish things or solve problems. I also believe that love is not something you just find, but something that will continually grow throughout the relationship. It is something that can't be broken, if, in fact, it is real- it takes 100% and 100% from each person in it, and when one of them is not giving that 100%, the other loses the desire to give his or her 100%- and the relationship fails.
AS for the children...yes, I believe that the love will be somewhat different because there is a special bond between a child and the biological parent. But- in the case where the child does not know his or her biological parent- there is an opportunity for that bond to grow between you and that child. At the same time, I beleive that there could be a situation where the child does not desire that bond , in which case- you must still love that child as if he or she was your own. Once again, just my thoughts... | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/25/2008 3:20:06 AM | I'm going to refer to my Howard Jones album (dig it out of the archives) and get back to you on that one ... What is love, anyway? lol ..
imo, hate is not the opposite of love .. fear is.
good luck op in finding the answer to one of life's bigger questions (I think it's next in line to "what the hell am I doing here and why?" My own personal answer is "Does it really matter? Go with it, it'll all work out. Besides, destination remains the same, despite the clarity (or the mud)."
:D | |
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| LOVE What is love andWHATit's values.
Posted: 11/25/2008 7:32:30 AM | every time i read this subject heading; "What is love andWHATit's values."
the picture of the knights trying to cross the "bridge of death" comes to mind, "WHAT is your favourite colour?" "Blue. No, yel-- auuuuuuuugh! "
admittedly, not COMPletely within the framework of the op's question...
heh 
okay, now i'll go and read the contents too....
hehehehe | |
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