| | Very High IQPage 2 of 13 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13) | I identify with those kids, though I haven't a clue what my IQ is. Must be OK - I did pretty well in academia for a while.
I come from a family who live into their 90s, I've matured very slowly and suspect that kid's development rates are calibrated to lifespan, not years. First point may be that they are very immature. Maybe they need to be kids. One thing that used to motivate me as a schoolkid was competing with other smart kids. My 'nemesis' became a cardiac surgeon.
Boredom may easily be a factor. Mental gymnastics may be a boring no-brainer to these kids, so all those exercises may be just boring repetition to them. You're probably pushed for time, but try to design exercise which use what they know in more creative ways.
Remember that they are individuals and each smart kid will have their own world of abilities, interests and disinterests. Smart doesn't mean they will be good at math, have a great memory, learn languages easily or any of a host of other skills. Each will have their own skills and interests. It is important to identify them and capitalize on them to the fullest. Don't forget to be sure they develop the basic skills they need too. Probably most importantly, teach them how to gather information - in the way that appeals to them! Books, internet, videos - and whatever else they find.
I'm not sure about ADHD in many cases. I could be hyperactive sometimes, but find me something interesting and I couldn't put it down. I suspect a lot of rowdy kids are just looking for stimulation from the boring routines of life. If they have boundless energy, find productive ways in which THEY want to use it.
Help them explore what their options are.
Ironically, a great many of my professor colleagues have experienced the symptoms you describe with their kids. Lazy, non-conformist, dropouts, druggies, party animals at about the same age. I can't think of one that hasn't succeeded after a time-out from school and then gone on to do well for themselves. Just a glimmer of hope if all else fails!
Not conforming is what sets the great apart from the rest. Probably the best you can do is show some acceptance of what they are and talk about their hopes and ambitions. Just because it isn't what you think it should be doesn't mean it can't be a darn sight better than you could ever imagine - if you can really figure out what is underneath the blustery smokescreen of self reliance, perhaps arrogance, or even don't-give-a-damn attitude they hide behind. | |
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HO2
| | Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 27 | |
| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 2:04:31 PM | One thing the research shows for sure: much of the ability for
complex reasoning depends on the situation.
Researchers agree that, statistically independent, mental abilities, exist
—such as spatial, verbal, analytical and practical intelligence.
The setting in which we measure intelligence matters.
IQ has risen approximately 20 points with every generation.
The rise in IQ has been attributed to many factors, such as better nutrition,
more schooling, better-educated parents and more complex spatial environments ----
-- smart toys and computers | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 2:16:46 PM | I have a high IQ, between yours and the kids, and almost never did my homework. In fact I only did what little homework I could get away with for a passing grade. You see it's a simple matter of those kids are absorbing the information you present them with at an incredible rate, with your IQ you probably do the same with new information. The classes I was more motivated to do homework in (which I actually did at the end of class instead of at home) was the ones that presented information not as an exert from the book in front of me (I could read the books front to back in one or two sittings easily), but instead they presented it in a way that caught my interest, provided opinions on why some math function was significant, or why a dictator really was wrong in their methods, and in their own words (not to be confused with paraphrasing).
As an example of presenting the work in a way that interest the students, this example may be rather extraordinary of one but it's one I remember very clearly. My geometry teacher (whom surprisingly had the surname Ortho) presented functions of PI to us with a really cool graph formula. The formula when solved with 0 to positive numbers would create the right half of a heart, when solved with 0 to negative numbers would create the left half of a heart, that was when she grabbed all but maybe 2 or 3 out of 30 students attention with gasp of astonishment.
The truth is though, that those kids know that the vast majority of what your taught in school is of little help in the real world and are spending their time studying what they really want to study, probably something the school doesn't offer a class for. Like with me it was programming, I'd rather spend 8 hours after school learning to write computer programs than fill in the blanks on some questionnaire about a previous class session. When I told my principal that, he nearly kicked me out of school and tried his hardest to convince me that learning to write the small programs I was doing at the time wasn't going to help me make my way in life. Another teacher that was teaching us to build resumes in the middle of a basic computing class called me up in front of the class to try to disprove part of my resume that listed a game I had worked with a team of 10 people on, he seemed to know a good deal about the game except he never read the credits page of the game, even after showing him that, he wanted to kick me out when he figured out that's why I didn't do my homework for his class.
I guess I went off on a little bit of a tangent there, but perhaps it'll help you with some insight or something. | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 2:39:50 PM | In order to understand why people with high IQs have a hard time with school, you should read a book entitled "The Deliberate Dumbing Down Of America" by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt.
Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt found out through personal experience why the school systems are the way they are now. People are not intended to become very intelligent. Instead, the powers that be; the masters of this world, have designed the school system to make people into good, obedient workers (slaves) who are just smart enough to get the jobs done and just dumb enough to not be able to figure out what's really going on in this world.
Conform, Obey, Don't question authority, Don't think for yourself (the teachers will tell you what's right and wrong), Do your work on time, And make damn sure you pay your taxes. | |
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Verzen
| | Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 30 | |
| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 3:09:59 PM | Uh, HO2... you know how they determine IQ, right? If the IQ raises 20 points with every generation, then that means it must decrease 20 points in a different part of the country. So while we are getting smarter, another generation is getting dumber? That doesn't make sense.
Intelligence should NEVER be based on how educated you are. Bush went to Harvard. He was very educated but he was also a dumb ass and he wasn't very intelligent. Intelligence is deemed from how quickly you can learn something. Not by what you know. | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 3:57:26 PM | Quoting Abelian: "I consider myself fortunate that I had lots of instructors who were not like you."
Gee thanks. That didn't hurt one bit.  | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 4:04:49 PM | I was one of the children you speak of but unfortunately, my life hasn't been so kind.
I used to pretend to be 'stupid' in an effort to reassure the other children that I was like them so they'd be my friend.
Intelligence is both a gift and a curse, I spend most days feeling envious of Forrest Gump than anyone else to be honest.
Fortunately, I have a penis and that keeps me stupid enough to be spared periods of 'deep thought'
Thank you, penis. | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 4:36:16 PM | First off I have to ask what test did all of you take as there are two frequently administered Stanford-Binet and WAIS-R. Stanford gives a higher number than WAIS-R. I also was bored to tears in school and I moved frequently being a military brat 18 schools. Like scorpiomover said, I lack motivation, and spent years getting the old "could be A student speil". I don't put much faith in these tests as I have known many people claim to be genius's that fail to exhibt it. I also do very well on some sections and not so on others and I am left handed. It's tough having teachers who are not able to understand because they are not on your level, this was very discouraging to me as well as always being the new kid and bully's punching bag.
I am completely self taught in my interests and never got to attend college but so many dummies seem to have. No use crying over my wasted potential. | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 6:10:42 PM | Everybody has wasted potential. That's life. We all have some bumps in life. Were those bumps something "bad" that happened to you are something to learn from? One should not forget that intelligence is the ability to learn and every moment of life is a learning experience.
I will gladly match my bumps against those of others but very few of my bumps were my doing. In reality, I have been pretty successful although I have erred in defaulting to trust when mistrust would have been the better choice. Perhaps that is why I am not trusting enough to find this site successful. I need to unlearn lessons I have had about the other gender.
Classical education is intolerant of creativity. Teachers equate creativity with the ability to interpret something they have presented, not something absolutely new to the teacher. If an intelligent and creative student finds himself subordinate to a teacher who is intolerant, that student will apply his mind to other more imaginative pursuits, even if that is daydreaming or creating disruptions in the "ordered" classroom. Since the educational establishment embraces order and discipline, those that live by following this narrow academic path often become the captains of the classroom themselves. We can only hope they can find respect for true creativity and steer it to more productive challenges. | |
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HO2
| | Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 35 | |
| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 6:17:44 PM |
If the IQ raises 20 points with every generation, then that means it must decrease 20 points in a different part of the country
Absolutely NOT.
My comments had nothing to do with geographical references.
Each generation builds upon the knowledge of the prior generations.
There is so much more info available to children in todays world.
The ability to read plays a huge role for a child in developing a superior intellect. | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 6:27:45 PM | School was boring to me as a kid. The out-takes from the boredom were by teachers who brought passion to a subject & went outside the proscribed lines of the curriculum. I still like that.
I would blow off doing any serious work to learn something new until someone could show me why I needed to know a thing. As high as my IQ was as a kid, I didn't learn to tie my shoes for a really long time. I got hugs from my Mom (3rd of 4 kids) which was not readily available,...when she would tie my shoes for me. My logic was that if I never learned I would continue to recieve the small bit of extra attention. It was illogical to bother learning to tie my shoes when it clearly meant I would relenquish something I wanted. Pretty much the same thing with time. As a kid I didn't give a rat's arse what time it was & couldn't see a good reason to care what time it was either. My motivation for learning that was that I would get a nice watch if I learned how to use it first. Seeing the Cinderella watch my older sister got was something to look up to, but I wanted the Sleeping Beauty watch instead. LoL The key word in all this??? Motivation! Find what motivates them & go with it! | |
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Verzen
| | Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 37 | |
| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 6:33:27 PM | HO2. Either you are not explaining things properly or you have no idea how IQ is determined.
100 is always the average number compared to others who have taken the test.
You cant say that if you have an IQ of 100, then in 2 generations they will have an IQ of 140. If this statement was true, then the reverse would also have to be possible. You would have to have a generation who has an IQ of 60 which is mentally retarded or two different generations of an IQ of 80 which falls inline with red neck mentality.
140 + 80 + 80 / 3 = 100 (average)
140 + 60 / 2 = 100 (average) | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 6:44:33 PM | | Have you noticed how many of the people responding to the OP have made this topic entirely about themselves? | |
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Verzen
| | Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 39 | |
| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 6:46:23 PM | | thunder - the reason is simple. When someone asks if anyone has been in this position... they answer that person with an.. answer. | |
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HO2
| | Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 40 | |
| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 9:47:33 PM | sorry Verzen, you are indeed a genius and your reading comprehension is awesome.
You don't really think that 4 or 5 generations ago people were learning
organic chemistry, quantum mechanics and artificial intelligence robotics ?
I'll take it to the lowest common denominator for the math wiz.
Each crop of newborn babies learns from adults who lived before he/she was born.
Hence the quantity of learned material available increases...progress, evolution, etc. | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 9:51:11 PM | LOL
An...answer?
Actually, it's more like: This is a dating site forum. There's going to be some people, if not majority, that will first post how they've been in a similar situation and then say how high their IQ is somewhere in the 120-150s, then say something that supports the OP; thus making them look good to potential fish. =D
Imagine someone posting something like: I totally agree. My IQ is in the high 60s and I had a similar experience in school. You should make the subject material something they would like to learn. I feel so much like these kids....
XD XD XD | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 9:52:46 PM | They will work when they have to or when a subject interests them.
I didn't until I found something interesting to me - quit in grade 10 and went on after a few years of logging and working pipeline.
I taught remedial and THEY are gifted. ALL of them!!!!
Stop trying to motivate and try manipulate. It is more effective.
Teach to their hearts and their heads will follow.
Just a couple of ideas. | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/12/2008 10:24:24 PM | | Ho2 are you saying that Leonardo DaVinci had a negative IQ? Because by your theory he did, he lived like twenty generations ago. Human IQ has not increased, only the knowlege base. And what about the ancient greeks? Do you get my point? That's just not a statement someone with a high IQ would make. Hawking is no smarter than Archimedes or Newton ect. Advanced tech is due to refinement of ideas not smarter people. | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/13/2008 12:05:20 AM | Of course they'll reference an answer from their personal experiences.
My point is how they take the topic, turn it around, and then give a "look at me" answer.
In problem/answer/support (rather than dating) threads, we should give answers to said problem and not make it an exposition about ourselves.
That is what the dating threads are set up to address.
This particular thread is in the "science/philosophy" area. | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/13/2008 12:47:39 AM | With experience as both an instructor and years in training/devlopment and HR I can tell you motivation is a hard thing to teach.
Here's what has worked for me in the past.
MENTORSHIP
Become a mentor to them or see if anyone on staff would be interested. This allows you to challenge them outside of regular curriculum.
Covnersely, let them become mentors/tutors for those students who might be struggling.
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WISDOM AND INTELLIGENCE
I love using case studies (best way to learn IMO), because a well crafted one doesn't have a right or wrong answer (based on intelligence). They help demonstrate good and bad decisions based on available information (wisdom).
YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE THEY DON'T
Currently I do a fair amount of mentoring with university students who work for us. Alot of them are smart cookies with big dreams of running their own business or breaking into a non-entry level job, but don't have a clue to go about it.
Knowing that they will probably leave when they graduate I help do CAREER PATHING for them. It's usually surprises them when they find out what it takes and what you have to consider to run a business or get into a "dream job".
EXTRA-CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES
Help them get engaged in extra-curricular activities. If your school has a newsletter maybe ask them if you can have something revelant to you topic of study in each issue. Or if you don't have one create one. Perhaps, your class can benefit from having a myspace or facebook page for questions/feedback, ask them if they want to moderate/run it.
USE YOUR NETWORK
Parents, department heads, guidance counsellors, other teachers who might be having similiar problems. They may have insight, similiar concerns or maybe even an action plan already in place.
HELP THEM BY LETTING THEM HELP YOU
Have a big exam coming up? Run a mock test and get them to grade it. Have them come back to you with feedback about what the other students are missing.
SOMETIMES PEOPLE HAVE TO FALL ON THEIR OWN
In the end you can't force someone to change. You can only provide opportunities for them to do so. They're young and they'll have plenty of opportunities in the future.
I find the secret (when it works) is to have them be engaging, accept additional responsibility and/or be moved outside of their comfort zone.
Mind you all these things require work on your behalf and it becomes evident to those you facilitating pretty quickly when it's done half heartedly. Also it requires constant feedback (plus negative reinforcement very rarely works) | |
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Verzen
| | Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 46 | |
| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/13/2008 1:06:20 AM | HO2 - That is called knowledge and education which has NOTHING to deal with IQ. IQ is intelligence Quotent which means the average IQ of EVERYONE on earth is 100. If you have an IQ of 150, then you are more intelligent then the majority of earth. My IQ is only 135-140.
If you had an IQ of 140 during Plato's time, it does not mean that his children's children etc now have an IQ of 2,600. That's just silly. | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/13/2008 7:17:57 AM | R U is pretty much right on.
When dealing with kids, particularly teens, we are dealing with empty heads full of rationalizations and hormones. Most adults, teachers included, have forgotten what it was like as we tend to suppress what we find unpleasant to remember. Those with a high IQ are simply better at taking in and storing what they experience. Many posts in this thread revisit some of those rationalizations.
As for using a network, these forms can serve that purpose well. It is clear from the frustration over this problem that normal education concepts fall short. Going outside the "comfort zone" of the educational establishment network to other networks may be the more productive option. | |
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HO2
| | Joined: 10/11/2008
Msg: 48 | |
| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/13/2008 8:23:31 AM | Verzen , perhaps you would be wise to actually study intelligence.
Look up "the Flynn Effect." http://www.indiana.edu/~intell/flynneffect.shtml
IQ tests must be constantly restandardized so that subjects are not scored against inaccurate norms
Flynn explains that the WISC, an intelligence test used widely in the United States,
was not restandardized for 25 years between 1947 and 1972. | |
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Thorb
| | Joined: 7/15/2005
Msg: 49 | |
| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/13/2008 8:32:37 AM | ^^^ that doesn't make any difference to the fact that the average score is 100. ^^^
and 1972 was 36 years ago ... now kiss and make up. | |
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| Very High IQ
Posted: 11/13/2008 11:48:16 AM | | Is HO2 trying to derail the thread? Haven't seen a pertinent comment yet from him. | |
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