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| | Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?Page 4 of 53 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41) |
My question always falls back on this, if we evolved from apes, then why are there still apes???
And this is the kind of question that could only be asked by someone completely ignorant of evolution. Apes still exist because evolution isn't a linear line, but a branching tree. The fish that branch out to oxygen-deprived swamps may evolve lungs from their swimbladders and eventually trek out onto land, but those that stay in the deep oceans have no selection pressure to evolve lungs. Hence, fish with lungs evolved from fish without lungs, and we don't need to explain why fish without lungs still exist. The same goes for our own evolution.
Why would some decide it was cool to get smart, and others to use twigs to pick bugs out of the ground, and swing from trees???
Because it isn't necessary to have intelligence to survive. Bacteria, social insects, and all sorts of brainless creatures survive a lot better than we do. Like anything, there are trade-offs that come with our intelligence. Our brains use up a ton of our energy intake, for instance, and we also lack the capacity to run like a cheetah, to have the strength of a gorilla, etc. There are many different ways to survive.
The evidence for evolution is solid and overwhelming. We have evidence from transitional fossils, observations of homologous and vestigial parts, evidence from geographic distribution of species, and countless other lines of evidence. To use just one example, whales have a mammalian bone structure, implying they evolved from land mammals. They also have vestigial hip and leg bones in their bodies. On top of that, scientists have found transitional fossils for whale ancestors, and as you go back further in time, you see they resemble more and more land-dwelling mammals (in fact, you can even trace the progression of the nostril as it moves up the head over time to become the blowhole). This is not to mention the DNA analysis that can confirm mammalian evolution, as well as the fact that they breathe AIR despite living in water, like a land creature would. This is just for whales. We see similar lines of evidence converging like this for ALL life. The only plausible explanation for this wide variety of facts is that whales evolved. (And by the way, you mention the appendix--this is another strong case for evolution, because evolution predicts we'd inherit parts from our ancestors that once served a purpose but that no longer serve such functions as we evolve to fill new evolutionary niches. As for what the appendix once did, it was an aid to digestion, a lot like the gullet in a chicken.)
There is NOTHING plausible in believing aliens had something to do with our creation, and to portray it as equivalent to evolution in terms of evidentiary plausibility just betrays your ignorance on the matter. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/17/2008 8:44:07 PM | Saint gasoline, does it make you feel like a big smart man to repeatedly call me ignorant???
I am NOT completely ignorant of evolution, and if your opinion is there is no aliens any where goody for you... We are all allowed our opinions based on the different theories and experiences we have had.
If you are so smart on the subject then why didn't YOU explain where the missing link is, and WHY we still have a missing link???
I did mention the appendix, and it was pointed out BY ME the person you have decided to bash as an example of evolution...
And perhaps you can show where you got your PRIMARY resource for YOUR explination of the appendix, because that isn't what I learned in A&P, nor did any of the Dr's at the medical school state it was LIKE a gullet...
However for chits and giggles I looked up specifically since you seem to think I am so ignorant...
The team of immunologists at Duke University Medical Center say the human digestive system contains massive amounts of bacteria most of which are good and help the digestion of food.
However the researchers say sometimes the bacteria die off or are purged from the intestines as in diseases such as cholera or dysentery.
According to the researchers, the appendix's job is to "reboot" the digestive system when that happens with the bacteria safely harbored in the appendix.
So I am wondering who is NOW showing their ignorance of the human body
I guess if you bothered to read my post you would have seen this, and would have noted that I did agree with a major level of the evolutionary process. However I also have ever right to believe in the evidence that has been brought forth about aliens as well.
Once again it goes to is it PLAUSIBLE, and I say yes, it is a plausible theory... THEORY does not mean fact, but based upon different evidence there is enough to support it being a theory that is possible.
Just because it is "plausible" doesn't make it so, and it doesn't make it NOT so...
We have NO imperical proof as to where the missing link is between apes and humans... After my OWN research the theory still falls short between the last evolutionary step of the neanderthal to modern man.
Taking isolated similarities by themselves, the theory of evolution appears to be quite reasonable... to a point. However, it seems that too much weight has been placed on similarities without questioning the differences.
Accordingly "there were statistical differences between Neanderthal DNA and the DNA of modern humans. These differences were used to calculate the evolutionary divergence of Neanderthals from a common ancestor to around 550,000 to 690,000 years ago." (found on Dec 17th, from http://www.detectingdesign.com/earlyman.html#Neanderthal)
Problematic is that DNA does not last over the long haul... Therefore despite theory, and a supposed fossil progression, really it all goes back to unproven FULL theory. Thus it is just as plausible as not that aliens decided neanderthals would make useful homo sapiens, if they had some smarts...
Point being that even at this moment they still have proven that neanderthals and modern human are still not a DNA match, and that means it is still up for debate as to how we got from Neanderthal, to here.
You subscribe to what you want to believe, and I leave the door open to the possibility that aliens may have intervened... In the end, calling another person ignorant, is something I would expect out of a 12 yr old... Before you call people ignorant, perhaps you need to open your own book, and find out that there are different theories on the matter, and just because one say fall the line of reasoning, doesn't mean it isn't faulty reasoning that took a person from point A to point B.
We are now back to NOT KNOWING FOR SURE... | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/18/2008 12:55:15 PM | >>>Saint gasoline, does it make you feel like a big smart man to repeatedly call me ignorant???
Did it make you feel like a big smart woman to challenge my assertions by pointing out my age?
I find it so funny to find people who fight tooth and nail against "personal attacks", but have no issue with using personal attacks against others- what relivance to anything in this topic does my age play? Does it change or alter anything, any fact, or any assertions I've previously made?
I'm either expecting an apology from you or for you to grow up and stop being a hypocrite. If you don't want personal attacks, don't start them.
>>>I am NOT completely ignorant of evolution, and if your opinion is there is no aliens any where goody for you...
Actually, I was the one who stated the belief that there are no aliens anywhere, based on our own observations. The closest he's been to saying anything like that is, "If we ever do find life, it will be unicellular at best or possibly some sort of space algae, and it will be very, very far away from us."
Please stop grouping peoples opinions together.
>>>If you are so smart on the subject then why didn't YOU explain where the missing link is, and WHY we still have a missing link???
We do? Since when? What books have you been reading on the subject?
In the 1850's, when Darwin presented his book to the world, yes- there were missing links. Even Darwin himself confessed to that. He called the lack of transitional fossils as, "the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory", but reminded people that the geological record was imperfect at that time.
Two years later, the first missing link between dinosaurs and birds was found. So this makes your claim that there is no missing link off by nearly 150 years.
As for human missing links, its grown more and more over the years. If you'd like a list, here they are- starting from the earliest of the genus Homo;
Homo habilis, Homo rudolfensis, Homo georgicus, Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, Homo cepranensis, Homo antecessor, Homo heidelbergensis, Homo rhodesiensis, Homo neanderthalensis, and lastly, Homo sapiens- although we've in the last few years discovered Homo floresiensis, who existed up until 10,000 years ago
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Hominintree4.gif
If you compare our hominin fossil record for each half century since Darwin, this is what we've found;
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Hominins_1850.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Hominins_1900.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Hominins_1950.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Hominins_2002.png
And even then, that chart doesn't include some of our most recent finds
Do we have all transition species on record? No. Of course not. Fossils re incredibly rare- if all of humanity were to suddenly die, for all our numbers, there would be only enough fossils to create two or three human skeletons . Most lifeforms, upon death, decompose and become food, or mulch for plants. Its only if a lifeform dies in an extremely dry area, or stays frozen for centuries, or dies in an oxygen free enviroment does a fossil appear. For some of these transititional species, they very well may be lost forever to time.
>>>where you got your PRIMARY resource for YOUR explination of the appendix
Its an old organ that humanity hasn't evolved out yet- maybe we never will. As Saint pointed out, Whales still have some bone structure to support their non-existant legs- birds share a simular bone structure to dinosaurs- these kinds of things are incredibly common to those who take the time and research this kind of thing- something you've already admitted that you refuse to do, so its no wonder you hold doubts.
>>> the appendix's job is to "reboot" the digestive system when that happens with the bacteria safely harbored in the appendix.
That is also likely- but that doesn't disprove human evolution in any way, shape or form....
>>>However I also have ever right to believe in the evidence that has been brought forth about aliens as well.
Sure you do- but you have no right to say it probly or even possibly happened without first discussing what grants the plausiblity- and that would be discussing facts. We still have no evidence aliens exist at all, and, frankly, more importantly, the OP's claims, which you clearly agree with, contradict the fossil record.
What purpose would aliens have to "upgrade" humanity? Homo Erectus was a species of many firsts- the first to control fire, the first to walk upright, the first to use elaborate tools- and this species appeared over 1.3 Million-750,000 years before the supposed aliens did. Clearly this subspecies of humanity is proving an ability to learn over a dependance on instinct- why do we need aliens to progress that more? Why would it take hundreds of thousands of years?
There is no real evidence of aliens altering humanity- nor is there a need to- humanity was clearly evolving on its own long, LONG before you claim aliens were hovering over our heads collecting, of all things Gold(why not metal? or diamonds? Both are far more rare and far more useful to an alien race- Gold was chosen by us not because its an awesome resource, but because its easily malible- perfect for early species, but a spaceship made of gold would melt in our atmosphere)
>>>THEORY does not mean fact, but based upon different evidence there is enough to support it being a theory that is possible.
We're still waiting on that evidence, you know.
>>>After my OWN research the theory still falls short between the last evolutionary step of the neanderthal to modern man.
Good news! You may be wasting your time! People who spend their time actually researching and understanding the data still aren't as convinced as you are- there is a debate still going on if the Neanderthal evolved into Homo Erectus, if Homo Erectus evolved from an eariler sub-species, or if Homo Erectus and Neanderthals co-mingled, and created a new sub-species through breeding.
>>>Therefore despite theory, and a supposed fossil progression, really it all goes back to unproven FULL theory...........and that means it is still up for debate as to how we got from Neanderthal, to here.
Gotcha- so all life on our planet evolved, but not modern man. And you present no evidence on why the distinction.
It seems almost like an ego thing for you- you don't want to contemplate a world where we evolved from Neanderthals(and combined with an yearning that we have a purpose and a yearning that we are not alone) , so you accept any theory that disagrees but doesn't disprove evolution. I really don't get your hestiation. Could there be more transitutional fossils between Neanderthals and Sapians? Yes- but the lack of a transitutional fossil doesn't mean space creatures came from the sky and changed our genes to harvest our gold. Its that leap that utterly confuses me..... | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/18/2008 1:34:16 PM | Apologize for pointing out your age? Hmmmm I didn't know being your age, or pointing it out was an insult??? I'm sorry bringing up your age to see what the hubbub was about.
Once again Gas and you are trying to argue a point I HAD ALREADY POINTED OUT IN AGREEMENT...
THE APPENDIX I pointed out as an evolutionary process in humans.. I guess if you and Gas bothered to read my whole posts, you guys wouldn't need to pick and chose points to argue about.
It seems almost like an ego thing for you- you don't want to contemplate a world where we evolved from Neanderthals(and combined with an yearning that we have a purpose and a yearning that we are not alone) , so you accept any theory that disagrees but doesn't disprove evolution. I really don't get your hestiation. Could there be more transitutional fossils between Neanderthals and Sapians? Yes- but the lack of a transitutional fossil doesn't mean space creatures came from the sky and changed our genes to harvest our gold. Its that leap that utterly confuses me.....
OK, lets get to this point real fast, because you and Gas sort of remind me of dogs chasing their tales...
I have NOT SAID THERE IS NOT EVOLUTION... I have stated that either theory is plausible. Either theory has its faults... That comes with experience, seeing things and more than handful of fossils, that give a person pause to QUESTION if there is perhaps OTHER explinations
Seems to me the ego trip is coming from you, because I don't have an issue one way or another, NOR do I have any stake as to which theory gets fully proven ... I have stated an opinion, WHICH IS WHAT IS ALLOWED IN FORUMS... I don't have to agree with you, gas, or anyone... In fact I can believe that pigs have wings, and fly around the barn yard at night... IT DOESN'T matter, because I am NOT trying to PROVE ANYTHING, other than I am open to the idea....
While we are at it, you seem to be the one adding from others postings, because no were in any of my posts do I say anything about gold or jewel collecting. That actually was from the OP. Once again I am open minded enough in entertaining that aliens MAY have had a hand in DNA restructuring. Doesn't mean I don't think that evolution is just as plausible, just means I am open to the idea based on things I have research, seen, and have found interesting, because they too are points that haven't been disproven as incorrect.
As well MY POINT HAS BEEN these theories have flaws in them on both sides and as a did so by using a PRIMARY RESOURCE (Wiki is NOT a primary resource, sorry but someone that is going to argue a solid scientific (or legal) point uses primary resources. Anyone can put anything in Wiki) it has been suggested that the neanderthals may very well be placed in a class of species all their own. Because there DNA and mDNA does not match homo sapiens, the hinch pin that has kept a "missing link" between cave men, and modern humans...
Dinosaurs to birds???? We are talking about humans, so once again even though that is a NICE thing they have proven, or whales with legs. Those are NOT homo sapiens, which is the op's topic of DNA...
I as fun as this exchange has been, I don't expect you or Gas to look past the few theories you have thrown at me as proof of evolution only. Several posts back you stated I needed to be open minded, seems the problem is I am open minded, and you two don't like it, thus the endless twisting what I post into something I didn't say.
ONE LAST TIME I am OPEN to the idea that aliens had a hand in our DNA restructuring. I have my reasons for feeling that way, and feel I am full entitled to have that opinion... I do not say that evolution is NOT just as plausible, because there is as much information as for the other. There are flaws in BOTH theories, and until scientist can come up with something fully conclusive. Aliens are just as plausible as not...
Please hold your opinion, NOT ONCE have I wished you to change your mind in the least..
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/18/2008 3:42:14 PM | >>>Hmmmm I didn't know being your age, or pointing it out was an insult???
The way you said it was intended to be an insultinges. That my opinion, my beliefs, and the research I do, is irrelivent because I'm younger than your boys
"... I don't need someone the age of my three kids to open my mind"
".. therefore it is nothing more than a 23 yr old fodder to pick and chose what you want to twist into something that wasn't said...."
Why did you bring it up if it wasn't meant to be an insult? What relivence does it hold to this debate at all?
Frankly, I didn't care- but I'll be damned if the same person who is whining about personal attacks is the same one who is presenting my age as if its a negative.
>>>Either theory has its faults...
Either theory? You use the theory of evolution as a crutch to get to your belief that aliens exist. You accept evolution caused all forms of life save one- Homo Sapian- and never bother to explain the all important question- Why? Why could the Billion of other species evolve into each other, but having Homo Sapian evolve is simply not plausible enough?
>>>... I have stated an opinion, WHICH IS WHAT IS ALLOWED IN FORUMS...
Guess what else is allowed in these fourms? Thats right- dissenting opinions. You admit that either is possible, but don't think that ANYONE, ANYWHERE, in all the internet has the gall to disagree?? Why are you calling fowl when someone disagrees with your opinion, as if we are stiffling you? You are free to express your opinion- and we are free to express our opinion that you are wrong- and we've gone into great detail as to why.
>>>... IT DOESN'T matter, because I am NOT trying to PROVE ANYTHING, other than I am open to the idea....
....With no evidence to support your claims- and you honestly think no one is going to challenge that claim?
You're free to believe what you want without justifying your beliefs- but I'll be damned if you confuse anyone who wonders into this thread into believing your non-sense.
>>>While we are at it, you seem to be the one adding from others postings, because no were in any of my posts do I say anything about gold or jewel collecting.
No they do not- thats why I used the qualifier "...the OP's claims, which you clearly agree with....", then lead into the contradictions that exist.
So far, the evidence you've proved is its plausible that aliens created man......and you feel its true.....and you feel you do not need to justify your beliefs with "facts"
That, combined with the fact that you've done nothing but defend the OP, and the fact that you've yet to explain one instance that you feel the OP got it wrong, lead me to believe that you supported his beliefs. Go Figure.
>>> because they too are points that haven't been disproven as incorrect.
And I could say that, when I sleep, pixies sneak into my bed and spoon with me- I have no evidence, but its never been proven false. And until you prove pixes do not exist, I have a right to my opinion. All sorts of madness can be used under the premise of "something isn't prove not to be there, so it could be there" ideal.
>>>Wiki is NOT a primary resource
What resources have you used? The closest thing to evidence or links you've provided is "Detecting Design"- which is even worse, since its a blog of someone with a predetermined mindset arguing solely that humans were designed.
I'm not going to go around giving you "approved" sources- you refuse to acknowledge anything I say that doesn't protect your world veiw, so why bother? Hell, this is coming from the person who, time and time again, refuses to provide even the simpliest of evidence. If you don't like my sources, provide a better "primary" resource that proves me wrong- otherwise, why bother?
>>>I do not say that evolution is NOT just as plausible, because there is as much information as for the other.
Theres evidence of aliens?
>>>There are flaws in BOTH theories
Like how we can see the human ancestors slowly becoming more and more man-like, while for aliens, we see absolutely zero evidence.....
>>>until scientist can come up with something fully conclusive
I separated this because I really need to know this is nothing else;
What, pray tell, is evidence that Aliens do not exist? What, pray tell, is evidence that Aliens never visited Earth 200,000 years ago? | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/18/2008 4:38:08 PM | nexthyme -
I have NOT SAID THERE IS NOT EVOLUTION... I have stated that either theory is plausible.
*sound of raised eyebrows*
Sorry, the alien theory is plausible? How do you figure? There is no proof, whatsoever, of any alien visitation to this planet. Until some is produced, that theory is no more plausible than the Tooth Fairy creating humans, either.
Waiting for "fully conclusive" evidence is a stalling tactic. You will only be satisfied when aliens are found, and as long as they are not, they could be, etc. Same kind of stalling that the Bush administration has used to thwart stem cell research, Global Warming initiatives, and all other science. You are presuming your impossibly high standard of conclusiveness to be a scientific standard - it is not.
There is plenty of evidence for evolution, and NONE for alien intervention. Period. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/18/2008 4:41:50 PM | I brought your age up, and compared it to mine... Reason, and I stated way back when, you are 23, you haven't had the opportunity to explore as many subjects as I have in 43 yrs. If you find that insulting so be it... However I promise, when some 23 yr old is taking what you stated and twisting it into things that weren't stated by them, YOU TOO will find their rant rather annoying simply because they haven't had as much time to explore the world as YOU at 43 have.
What I provided is NOT a blog, it is a course through a university. As well I did provide another site which was from Duke university.
....With no evidence to support your claims- and you honestly think no one is going to challenge that claim?
Last time I checked the rules, I don't have to debate someone and come up with evidence to why I have the opinion I do.
I have provided different "proof", which you chose to shoot down, therefore why should I bother with any more sources????
I also pulled a reliable resource for the problem of the missing link in human beings, vs cave men, which you also decided to blow down. So it seems that you want to have a pissing match as to what I can provide, verses what you provide.
I have told you if you believe strictly in evolution GREAT!!!!!!!
I have read what the OP provided, which actually is some very interesting stuff. HOWEVER NO WHERE IN MY POSTS have I completely agreed with the OP... THE ONLY THING ONCE AGAIN that I agree with that it is plausible that humans could have been altered by aliens.
I brought up the negative RH factor, which I personally have a negative RH factor that scientist can't explain the evolutionary theory as to how that happened.
I have brought up cave drawing, and a host of other things. You have decided that is NOT any proof, ok, so be it... Hard to expect me to be open minded and jump off the fence, BECAUSE I AM ON THE FENCE ON THE SUBJECT, with that kind of attitude.
IF you don't like what people present as proof, that is your choice. As well I don't by all the hyperbole that has been brought up about evolution. I have stayed open minded to theories, and find that both have flaws. You are NOT required to agree.
This breaks the privacy rule, but you want to know what got me to open my mind???
While working in the hospital a young 18 yr old man was in the arizona desert having a camp out with school friends.
What he remembers of the evening as his friends were drifting off to sleep was this account.
First he was standing face towards a burning fire. The next thing he knows he has his back to the fire that was NOW out, and had screaming pain in his knee. The next morning it looked like he had a surgical scar on his knee that he NEVER had before.
When he came back to Or, his Mum took him to the hospital because none of this made any sense, AND he had NEVER had surgery. We X rayed him, and they even did a scope. He had missing pieces from his cartilage around his knee.
Is this proof???? NO, he didn't say he knew what happened, but that something happened that was unexplainable..
Therefore I opened my mind and started researching other ideas, because this young man was straight forward, and matter of fact. He was NOT on any tv show, or in any book or anything that made him money. In fact he was not thrilled to have his mum get all worried, because he doesn't remember anything that happened.
I make no apology that from what I have researched, and talked to others about.
I never aid anything about totally agreeing with the OP, and I have also read the stories, or "theory" of the Annanuki. Doesn't mean I subscribe to that theory, but it doesn't mean I have ruled out all alien theories.
You stick with your ZERO proof, and belief we can see how we evolved.... Me, nope, I don't agree until they can genetically link all of these evolutions together.
Has it ever occurred to you that some of the aliens may have looked like human bones, thus were considered homo sapiens and never tested for DNA???
What, pray tell, is evidence that Aliens do not exist? What, pray tell, is evidence that Aliens never visited Earth 200,000 years ago? Good question we don't know, and it may never be answered....
What I believe, and what you believe will NOT change this world in the least, because it is all just a subjective opinion on different theories. There is no need to make a stance for one or the other, OR both.
More important issues are things I make a point to fight for. Changes on Cannabis being legal for medical use. Changes in the treatment of the mentally ill. Issues for the abused. Taking care of this Earth today and now...
Those are things that really means something to me, and I can make some sort of change with those that are like minded..
The rest is nothing more than speculation, opinion, and somebodies scientific thesis. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/18/2008 5:31:47 PM | >>>What I provided is NOT a blog, it is a course through a university.
I wonder how I could have possibly got the idea that its a blog- I wonder what the "about" section of that website has to say;
"This website is a rough draft collection of my own notes and thoughts as well as the thoughts of many others concerning the theories of evolution and design. "
Sounds like a blog to me
>>>As well I did provide another site which was from Duke university.
I cannot seem to find it on any of your posts. It seems that you've only offered one link- to your "Detecting Design" Blog.
Feel free to correct me and point me towards that post number if you wish
>>>I also pulled a reliable resource for the problem of the missing link in human beings, vs cave men, which you also decided to blow down.
What the hell are you talking about? Did I just stroke off a little somewhere in the middle of this topic?
You have provided ZERO evidence, or even a specific example as to these cave paints. One of the first things I said when you presented them was "please give me examples"- that was two weeks ago. I've asked nearly a half a dozen times since- and still, no examples. Now you're going to tell me you did, and I 'blowed them down'?
I'm going to ask, again- please, show spefic examples of cavemen painting UFO's on walls. You don't have to- I agree- but if you don't, you cannot then say that you have.
>>>So it seems that you want to have a pissing match as to what I can provide, verses what you provide.
Not at all- I'm asking for you to provide something- ANYTHING. The closest you've provided is a blog, then to turn around and say Wikipedia isn't an acceptble source because anyone can throw info up there(and you can't a blog because......)
>>>HOWEVER NO WHERE IN MY POSTS have I completely agreed with the OP
Nor have you ever expressed that you disagreed- so I made the logical conclusion that you agreed.
>>>Good question we don't know, and it may never be answered....
Thereby proving that you are asking for an impossible standard. You claim it could be one or the other- that both situations are possible. One situation, evolution, is where the process that you yourself admit that causes the creation of literally Billions of creatures, led to the creation of man. There is evidence of man slowly evolving and developing the kind of social skills we use to define modern humanity.
The other has no evidence, other than your own conviction and anecdotal evidence, and just plain old making things up, and can never, never be proven false, no matter how long mankind lasts.
And you claim we should respect both possiblies with equal care? | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/18/2008 5:59:50 PM | I haven't pulled up the cave paintings, or the theology painting because it is my understanding it is against the rules...
I posted directly from Duke university about the human appendix a couple of posts back.
I will privately, IF your settings allow give you the specific UNIVERSITY site about human evolution and the research study on the DNA as well as mDNA that demonstrated that neanderthals could very well be their own species... It isn't a blog, because it goes by chapter of explanation of the different research studies....
LOL, now you guys, meaning the above poster from my last post, wants to say it is an impossible standard that I am suggesting... Really it isn't an impossible standard, it is just rather difficult at the moment.
DNA is still rather new, and is an evolving science everyday.
As well there are many different items that have been unearthed that scientist can't explain.
I brought up project blue book, there are 701 reports that fall under unexplained. To that you said that doesn't count, because these 701 reports are all misunderstandings as to what was seen... REALLY? 701, or of what did you say 5000...
Creation used to be the norm and the ONLY way to think, until the first cave man (sorry I don't have room in my brain to recall all the different evolutions...) that said creationism seems more like fanciful thinking.
At this point in time, we MAY not have the empirical proof that would satisfy you, and those who only believe in evolution. However that doesn't mean it won't happen.
As for me say REPEATEDLY, which I have, since you and I started debating... I have agreed with the "plausibility of Aliens, and them perhaps being responsible for DNA restructuring. However I have also repeatedly just look, said that was the ONLY thing I was agreeing too.
As far as the Annanuki, vulcans, greys, et al. I don't know, I am not going to say they exist at all, because there is less proof of them, than fairies spooning with you.
NOW you have accused me of making something up... WHAT IS IT THAT I MADE UP???
I assure you I did have the encounter with the 18 yr old at the hospital...
Most people, in particular pilots will NOT admit to seeing ANYTHING, until they are no longer flying planes... As I stated, this young man didn't have his story printed, and was rather annoyed his mum got bent.
His situation fell under the unexplained... If that is what you are referring to, shame on you, because that is why people who have an open mind, and have met others that have unexplained experience don't share it.
And you claim we should respect both possiblies with equal care
I suggest that you should respect other people opinions simply because that is a matter of respect. Especially when it comes to theories, and opinions.
I am not asking you to agree, nor to understand WHY I believe what I do, and have felt limited, as well as it being pointless to break out all my resources, simply for you to blow them off. At least I have the respect to say I sit on the fence, and don't feel the need to get overly excited one way or another, simply because it isn't a subject that is going to change my life one way or another...
Something you don't seemed to have the desire to do... Fine what ever floats your boat, your opinion, or need to try and prove this midaged gal wrong is not going to make or break my life either...
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/18/2008 8:17:58 PM | Hey thyme, I have to say statements about the validity of classical evolution and whether aliens influenced that evolutions is stepping in a field of landmines. Of course, we're at risk of getting into two different discussions (actually, I think it's happened). The first is the validity of evolutionary theory and this plausibility of aliens influencing our evolution.
You seem stuck on this purported question of "the missing link." Well, I think that's a bit of a misnomer (and a favoured one by creationists). If you are looking for "trasitionary" specimens, well, we're all in transition from what we were to what we will become. Species are best adapted to their present environment and not to what that environment will become. As for missing links from apes to human, well, apes and humans evolved from a common ancestry. There is ample evidence of it.
Sure, it's "plausible" for aliens to have changed evolution to result in us. It's also "plausible" magic unicorns wandered the world or pigs can fly. I just consider it very, very highly improbable. There's just no plausible evidence in support of the aliens idea. And it's only an idea, it's not a valid theory. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/18/2008 9:21:22 PM | Thank you very much stargazer...
I am not actually stuck, but rather it is a point that many scientist find an issue that they can't full resolve, thus they can't fully state with out question that there are other missing BEINGS, before the full step to modern man.
My statement has always been it is plausible. I have never stated it is PROBABLY, nor have I stated evolution does NOT fit as a more likely theory.
I have stated I like to keep my mind open to the possibility, so as to NOT cut my own studies into different ideas.
YES, I agree it is like stepping in a landmine field, and frankly this is JUST an open forum, not some scientific expedition to prove what theory is right or wrong.
The truth is there is link that MOST homo sapiens have came from Africa. I have asked my significant other to explain how the differences in races kicks in, and why some races have eyes that slant, and don't seem to pose an evolutionary reasoning for the need to have slanted eyes...
He has explained the dark vs light pigment which makes evolutionary sense, but there are also things that don't, but hey that is just me... Enquiring minds want to know.
Personally I don't think it is bad to think of the possibilities, when there is so much we really don't know. I would hate to think I needed to limit my thinking just because someone else feels they have a better idea, theory, or explanation on something that still has holes in it..
ONCE AGAIN just my opinion, and it would be nice to just be able to have it without people telling me I have no right to think that way.
By the way, I don't think pigs fly, but dang you give a little one a really good toss, and it will do its best... | |
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Thorb
| | Joined: 7/15/2005
Msg: 87 | |
| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 8:09:23 AM | Just to open things a bit further.... does anyone have a website that gives any proof of evolution out of a family.... i.e. virus to bacteria
virus evolution seems our best proof of the theory being observable but has a virus ever mutated to something other than a virus?
will a mammal ever evolve to something other than a mammal ?
I have seen no proof anywhere and would love to see some.
Until then ... I cannot fully jump on this evolution bandwagon.
The existentialist in me makes me think we may have created the Aliens for a diversion of thought
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 9:27:26 AM |
I don't know... It's all a bit of a head ****. What do you guys think?
I think the reason you think it's a head **** is because you would rather dream up complicated conspiracies to avoid understanding the questions than do the work necessary to voice a credible opinion. This probably works at****ail parties where poseurs congregate to try and impress each other as ``deep thinkers,'' but it doesn't work with anyone who actually knows some science. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 10:33:14 AM | I would have to say for myself, i have done alot of reading on the subject. I find myself drifting over towards and staying on the side of another Society having a hand in our history. I mean read the book
GODS OF EDEN
There is another book written by man other people who worked for Nasa. They were main players in the development of Nasa communication systems. I mean im sure he would be the one who would hear the secret conversations that would take place over Nasa private channels.
As for the evolution theroy i would disagree with it. I mean as someone had mentioned....why would apes not form or develop along with Homo sapiens if we had been in the form of one at one time. Now really really sit there and think about it. Only a select few become Homo sapiens while others stay the same? Does that make any freaking sense from just a logical point of view ???? so lets say we have 10 apes all on the same diet and follow same routine for the next 30yrs. Now you mean to tell me only 6 apes develop into Homo sapiens ? while other stay apes ???
There is alot of info out there that does not make any sense. I would think the Ancient people from 1000 years or more would not be just putting down written text just for fun. We find it and its a big joke so we place it in fantasy or as myth pile. Just because we cannot explain the stories or they sound really extreme like nothing like that could have happend so long ago.
Im sure like i have said b4 we will one day find out the truth. As to when society will be ready for such info will be up to the Great leaders we as the people have elected or think we have elected seeing we are controlled by BIG BANKS | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 10:49:26 AM | People: humans are not descended from apes, apes and humans have the same common ancestor. BIG difference.
CA
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Human APES
Not: CA > APES > Humans
Please read up on the science before posting disinformation. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 11:16:53 AM | There are many things wrong with this idea but I think the most obvious one is the mountain of proof we have for humans evolving on this planet.There is so much proof covering most of earths history that there realy is not doubt how we came to be,we aren,t aliens we wern,t created,! we evolved over millions of years just like all the other quadrapeds on this planet.Why try and find an answer? we we all ready have it,if it ain,t broke,don,t fix it! | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 11:25:08 AM | I don't think it's a plausible theory because to make it plausible there would have to be more facts that are not so easily undermined by more plausible explanations.
I think this is very misleading:
Official science is silent on the cause of this and mutters terms like ‘the missing link’.
But some unavoidable facts need to be addressed. Suddenly the previous physical form
known as homo erectus became what we now call homo sapiens. From the start the new
homo sapiens had the ability to speak a complex language and the size of the human
brain increased massively. Yet the biologist Thomas Huxley said that major changes
like this can take tens of millions of years.
Evolution can be jolted into rapid change by environmental factors. Changes in our brain could have related to changes in diet. Even with our current brains, our growth, development, and intellect can be greatly impacted by nutrition just in an individual's lifetime.
I can't say I haven't thought about the theory but I think this theory and others like it are more about our need to identify with something bigger than ourselves than science. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 11:29:27 AM |
Beliefs about human evolution originated hundreds of years ago. Numerous scientists and paleontologists have spent countless hours trying to answer questions dealing with this mysterious concept. Fossils of human-related species have been found in various locations throughout the years with remains dating as far back as 5.8 million years ago. As more and more fossils are being discovered new questions continually arise. Many scientists believe that modern day humans evolved from the Order Primates(1) and are included in the family hominid(2). The Order Primates also include gorillas, monkeys, chimpanzees, lemurs, and indris(3). Studying these primates is very important in unmasking the mysteries of the past in a variety of ways. Not only do the fossils of present day primates help us in understanding the remains that we find, but they also help us in piecing together the lifestyles that Hominids of the past lead.
Many differences can be seen in fossils found millions of years ago when compared with modern Homo sapien bones of today. Evolution has shaped the modern Homo sapien in many ways to help us adapt to our environment. The direction of human evolution was shaped by a variety of factors. These factors include the type of food they were able to forage , the shelters they built, as well as predators in which they had to escape(5). The particular niche of the Hominid species also aides in shaping specific features. This progression has taken millions of years, and is an eternal process for our environment is continually changing(6). For instance, the modern day Homo sapien tends to be taller, have a larger brain, and have a thicker skull than remains of the past. It is very interesting to follow the evolutionary path of the human and to see where we stand today. The timeline below gives an overview of the Hominid species and a rough order of their evolution.
https://www.msu.edu/~robin400/humanevolution.html
I understand what you trying to say but alot of the idea do come to this thought that man has come from ape family of some sort. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 12:53:10 PM | >>>why would apes not form or develop along with Homo sapiens if we had been in the form of one at one time.
Why didn't eels and octopus's climb up on the shores when fish did?
Different species act differently- thats what gives live its diversity.
>>>Only a select few become Homo sapiens while others stay the same?
Thats entirely possible, yes, but on the issue of human evolution, it is completely untrue. Sapains and Apes share a common anccesstor, but that ancesstor no longer exists.
>>>Does that make any freaking sense from just a logical point of view ????
Yes- if the Apes in East Africa's habitat lose their habitat because of drought, they will be forced to adapt or die- meanwhile, the same species in West Africa's jungles continue to exist without changing. Its simple, really....
>>>so lets say we have 10 apes all on the same diet and follow same routine for the next 30yrs. Now you mean to tell me only 6 apes develop into Homo sapiens
...
Please tell me you said 30 years just to speed up the thought.....I mean, evolution doesn't just "happen" after a while- small changes happen to their offspring- you have to be born with the changes- and significant changes can take hundreds of thousands if not millions of years.
>>> I would think the Ancient people from 1000 years or more would not be just putting down written text just for fun.
Why not? Was 'The Matrix' written as entertainment, or are we actually living in a dreamworld and are infact ruled by machines?
>>>As to when society will be ready for such info will be up to the Great leaders we as the people have elected or think we have elected seeing we are controlled by BIG BANKS
Imagine that- a conspiracy theorist who believes theres an alien conspiracy | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 12:55:44 PM | Phoebus "Gods of Eden" Good book. I didn't use that as a primary source, but yeah another book that can get a person thinking.
The problem seems that there is a we vs they attitude, which to me, this is narrow minded thinking.
Here's an example, some asked about the mutation of bacteria, or germs... They mutate on a regular basis, in fact they mutate so quickly that from one years flu to the next, they have already mutated. Thus the flu shots formulated from last years flue aren't effective against the mutated species.
HOWEVER they are single cell organisms with out a brain, interestingly they can keep ahead of antibiotics, and shots created from the last years mutation.
IN fact their are strains of staph that are completely resistant to all antibiotics.
Can these single cell brainless organisms think, or has it been possible that man kind help generate organisms that are resistant to things, and just like what humans do on the computer to be able to sell their anti virus ware. Send out a new virus and let it go to see what happens...
AND BEFORE THOSE OF YOU THAT LOVE TO BASH, AND SCREAMS CONSPIRACY, take a look at WWII history and see what the Japanese did to the Chinese and Russians that live in outer unprotected villages.
It is now called germ warfare.
If we are capable of changing and splicing DNA, without leaving any trace that we have done that. Which there are people who now have designer babies for a BIG price. Why would it be so hard to conceive that a civilization would be able to learn space travel and change dna in a promising creature????
I will repeat, I don't have any answers one way or another BUT I do know that I am open minded enough to think it is plausible.
AND NO, I don't have ANY NEED to think there is some greater power over mankind. I can see that the Earth itself is a greater power, so there isn't a need to worry about aliens.
Any horrible and over indulgent thing we humans do to this world comes right back at us now, or generations later making our existence more fragile. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 1:05:54 PM |
If we are capable of changing and splicing DNA, without leaving any trace that we have done that. Which there are people who now have designer babies for a BIG price. Why would it be so hard to conceive that a civilization would be able to learn space travel and change dna in a promising creature????
Why would that be necessary? | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 1:20:12 PM | Why would what be necessary?
The alien theory?
Go look up Planet X, it was discovered in 1982, and has been headed this way every since. This planet is called Nibiru (or something like that) It is as large as Jupiter, and orbits around our sun ever 3000 plus years.
Mayan have this planet recorded, as well as another planet that used to be between mars and Jupiter. Thus there is a space that is not equal in count between Jupiter and Mars.
Any ways it is stated that Nibiru smashed into this 5th planet creating the meteorite belt.
Its next orbit that will bring this extremely large planet near our planet is in 2012, and can rattle the crap out of the planet.
What if in say another galaxy they were at the end of their planet life span? What if they had mastered travel and all, BUT there was no way to save every single being on that planet???
SO they take this DNA and put it into the closes thing that would evolve into a thinking creature?
NOW you as a theoretic question, and this is ONLY a theoretical answer.
According to the Physicist Miochi Kaku, it has been considered in trying to save our OWN species if say the magnetic poles flip and stop the earth, thus ending the magnetic protection around the earth from the sun radiation we could send into space our DNA and have it encoded into other living creatures on another planet. This ended protection would irradiate the earth, and could cause damage for thousands of years.
This flipping of the poles has occured thousands of times according to scientist.
Once again that is a major well known scientist who converges with other head people, and are trying to come up with an idea to save man kind. | |
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Thorb
| | Joined: 7/15/2005
Msg: 98 | |
| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 1:23:39 PM |
Why would that be necessary?
^^^the typical answer ... why not ... [ or just for fun ]
now .... I didn't ask about the mutation of bacteria .....
and bacteria does not cause the flu ..... its a virus.
I want to see evidence of a virus or bacteria mutating into a different thing.... something other than a virus ... or something other than a bacteria.
I want proof a mammal can mutate into something other than a mammal.
According to the Physicist Miochi Kaku, it has been considered in trying to save our OWN species if say the magnetic poles flip and stop the earth, thus ending the magnetic protection around the earth from the sun radiation
if this guy is serious ... he is a moron ... and should investigate some geology.
the poles have swithched lots of times ... yes ... but none of those time coincide with any of the extinctions. .... it could happen over night and the only thing you would notice was your compass was different.
as for that planet with a 3000 year revolution around the sun .... coming in 2012 ... well if that was the case ... the hubble could easily spot it now. [it would be that close] infact you would probably be able to see it with binoculars.
My previous readings called it Nemesis. and said it caused a change in the orbit of mars and the earth as well as causing the asteroid belt ... I think it came from the book .. Worlds in Collision by ... Velikovsky
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 1:37:43 PM | Thorb thanks, distracted here, yes I meant virus...
Now you are just trying to kick evolution in the knees when all creatures supposedly came out of the primordial soup and some became fish, then mammals, then back into the water for some, while others because ummm what is it dinosaurs, and then birds, even though all the dinosaurs were wiped from the planet, some how birds and other creatures survived this.
We have proof that they can become extinct, but going the other way, yeah it is theory that is vaguely proven, or at least thought of as a logical, universal idea.
We of course didn't even get to the ice age, and the mini ice age, flipping of the poles, and all the other things that destroyed all living things at least 4 times.... According to scientific experts.
Of course it is a let say... WITH THE EXCEPTION OF planet x... Look it up... | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 12/19/2008 1:55:14 PM | >>>HOWEVER they are single cell organisms with out a brain, interestingly they can keep ahead of antibiotics, and shots created from the last years mutation.
They're not conciously learning how to be better at fighting anti-bioics- they aren't even aware of our existence to begin with- instead, if 1 flu virus reproduced a million times, and one has a mutation that allows it to survive better, then the other 999,999 may die- but the one will survive, and will continue to reproduce, and thus, spread.
Microbes really are the single greatest species in that regard.
>>>or has it been possible that man kind help generate organisms that are resistant to things
Nope- we've just managed to figure out a way to kill off the other microbes- the freaks of that species wouldn't have had any effect if we didn't kill off the ones who didn't have resistance to it too.
Another good examples are moths- many years ago, the majority of moths were white, while a few were grey- the grey ones, when on white trees like spruce, basically glowed to predators. But mankind came through and some trees color changed because of pollution- now the grey moths have the advantage, and because of that they multipled while the white ones became the ones endangered to predators. Did these grey moths think to themselves "hey, these humans are polluting- nows our time to shine"- or was it simply a random change that allowed them to get the upper hand?
>>>If we are capable of changing and splicing DNA, without leaving any trace that we have done that. Which there are people who now have designer babies for a BIG price.
I was not aware of either being true- it certainly is a belief that, through research, we may one day be able to do that, yes- but then again, so is AI, and nanomachines, and the mind machine interface- that doesn't mean we definately can, nor is that evidence of aliens in any form.
>>>Go look up Planet X, it was discovered in 1982, and has been headed this way every since.
....
*sigh*
Planet X is a theorical planet from the early 20th century that was suspected because of gravational changes observed on planets like Neptune- because of which, scientists knew there had to be more planets out there. Then they found Pluto and various other dwarf planets, which explained it perfectly.
Let me to perfectly clear; There is no Planet X. Planet X was a belief that there was a planet half the size of Neptune- a Gas Giant sized planet far on the fringes of our solar system. Instead, we've discovered the Kuiper belt, a series of rocks and dwarf planets- so far, we've recorded over a thousand different objects in this belt, and another 60,000 is suspected to still reside in that part of our solar system.
There was no "discovery" of planet X in 1982. In 1983, there was a reported discovery of a Jupiter sized planet, but then it ended up just being distant Galaxies.
The planet "Nibiru" is a psuedo-scientific theorized planet. And who suggested it? Thats right- Zecharia Sitchin, the same man who is convinced that aliens altered our genes, and the cause of this very topic.
It, to be perfectly frank, is bullshit. There has been no observed reaction of this planet at all, anywhere, by any actual scientists. The only evidence we've ever found of a planet X is the conviction from Sitchin that his interpretation and only his interpretation of Sumer text is true, and all other interpretation of it, as well as all observations of our solar system from the millions of people before him, is false. A planet of the size that Sitchin suggests would leave a graviational reaction- ironically, the very reason why we knew there had to be a planet X disproves the idea that there is a planet Nibiru. Sitchin's ONLY evidence that it exists is the fact that the Sumers were convinced it did- which even then, actual sumer scolars say he is using the wrong dilect to get his results.
>>>Any ways it is stated that Nibiru smashed into this 5th planet creating the meteorite belt.
If a planet smashed into another planet that close to ours, then all life on Earth would be extermined.
Also, why trust the Mayans? The Greeks were far greater observers of the skies- why didn't they see any of this? You'd think a massive explosion the likes of which hasn't happened on this planet for nearly 3 Billion years would have been noticed by everyone on the planet- not just the Mayans.
>>>Its next orbit that will bring this extremely large planet near our planet is in 2012, and can rattle the crap out of the planet.
I'm sorry, but do you honestly believe you can claim to be "on the fence" and "openminded" when you're dictating that an imaginary planet is going to end the world in 3 years time?
You claim your beliefs are plausible- but they require us to ignore so much we have learned based on your hunches that have no actual evidence. There is no evidence of aliens- there is no evidence that man was altered by aliens- there is no evidence of Nibiru and there is no evidence of the world ending in 3 years. These are all baseless assumptions in a despite plea that there is more to the universe- and you're combining all these assumptions- all from the same man- into one massive theory that, if any one thing is wrong, the whole thing falls apart. | |
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