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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/15/2009 6:01:38 PM | Jip, I am saying what I seen... Coincidence... Well when there were NO flying machines, or at least that is what we are told 1500 yrs ago, and when these were found NO flying machines, it does give one pause...
Is it PROOF positive??? I can't say, all I can say is that it would seem that something came to visit, and why not... They don't have to CHANGE anything really, but why not visit, back then the indigenous beings weren't ready to blow them out of the sky...
I am a perfect example of evolution...
I had a very rare severe reaction to a blood pressure med I was taking for 5 yrs... Rarely happens, but for me, 98 % of all meds I have taken I have a reaction, why??? because something is different in me...
I have found out that my neurological structuring is different than the average person... there are some that have the same changes... Found by dr's and over 20 yrs of trying to figure out what is not right with me...
My parents are humans... LOL, at least as far as I know...
What this tells me from an ANECDOTAL perspective is that as a human being for some reason I have changes in my neurological structuring as well as a complete intolerance to chemicals that are generally tolerated by most people...
Now, this is where the open mind part comes in...
Seeing in person these petroglyphs were something that makes me want to know more. I won't get the answers I am sure, and my observation isn't tainted by anything other than what I seen, and the bits and pieces of material I have read...
A person would have to have had the experiences that I and many others have had to perhaps understand why we have our beliefs the way we do...
I am satisfied to believe there were visitors that were NOT the norm. I don't think it was a 1500 yr old to over 35000 yr old coincidence of what these people seen... Simply because that is way to many coincidences for people that were on different continents and never would have encountered each other over that span of time...
I am fine with what I have observed, and if a person goes to the petroglyphs, and hieroglyphs and believe they are something other, so be it... People are allowed opinions of their observations...
Thank you for those who feel they need to DEBUNK what I seen in person... I seen what I did, and unless there is specific written proof that these drawings in the "sacred counsel" where only the high "officials" of the tribe went, are some kid doodling. I am ok with feeling that they might have been visited by beings from the sky.... | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/15/2009 6:43:11 PM | dang ... embrya .... Sitchen .... read that Von Daniken ripoff stuff years ago.
Back when I was into sci-fi and psychic phenomena and psychedelic alternate realities ... Carlos Castaneda and all that 70's stuff
The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross
Pyramid logy ... numerology ... scientology ... astrology ... phrenology
there as so many ways to con people into thinking entertainment is science
This thread and a couple of others have gone through those ideas and debunked them many times over. Its getting a bit stale.
Its much better to actually go to pure philosophy and forget trying to claim you have found something in the science realm. As for Aliens creating us .... well most of the posts on this thread are way off topic.
Thyme ... I do like to study ancient art and you must remember ... that is what it mostly is .... art. It is a conceptual work with symbolic meaning to the people of that time.
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/15/2009 7:11:16 PM |
I feel many of you would benefit from reading up a bit. All you need to do is wrench your selves out of the mainstream information crap that attempts to keep us from finding our true history. The truth is all over the place. OPEN your minds.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
Terry Pratchett
I believe in an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.
Arthur Hays Sulzberger
A great many open minds should be closed for repairs.
Toledo Blade | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/15/2009 11:35:14 PM | >>>Well when there were NO flying machines
Again, and this must be the third or fourth time, what about these images imply they are drawing machines? Couldn't it be clouds? An all seeing eye? and whose the say the image represents a sky?
>>>and why not...
You know the arguments for why not. In a nutshell, its physically impossible, and the only alternative is to disregard all our observations of the universe and how it works, simply on the premise that you don't feel its true. Its frankly a very subjective and, dare I say, egotistical way to view the universe, where something must be true because you FEEL it, and proving it is an unnecessary step to claiming it true. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 9:43:53 AM | dang ... embrya .... Sitchen .... read that Von Daniken ripoff stuff years ago.
lol... dang... Thorb... that is what the topic was about was it not?
And actually I prefer philosophy because I haven't proven a dang-ed thing lately other than the fact that I am occasionally late to work and I tip too well. Agreed. Those lithographs on the walls may have very well been a very creative mind... as I stated during my arguments with co-workers. BUT, there are too many unanswered questions to just let sleeping dogs lie. Wanna wager that it will most likely what others will label a "whack job" when he/she does figure it out? | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 10:30:21 AM | >>>BUT, there are too many unanswered questions to just let sleeping dogs lie.
....
Well? Lets hear them.
If you come to your conclusion based on being overwhelmed by questions, maybe we could help lighten your load and free you of your burden by actually answering your unanswered questions.
I really don't think that someone, somewhere drawing something that, when looked at with the predisposition towards a preconceived conclusion, is evidence of aliens. I don't think that cavemen drawing saucers is any more evidence of aliens than if my neighbor would we write to the local paper "I saw aliens!"- the only real difference being that we aren't sure the intent on the caveman and their drawings, though neither of them can prove the experience was legitimate. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 10:46:03 AM | Again, I am not believing nor nonbelieving at this point. Sorry. I am doubting that life's answers will be found here but...
your words >>> "we aren't sure the intent on the caveman and their drawings, though neither of them can prove the experience was legitimate."
Keywords: aren't sure, cannot prove. As well, there are just as many that would argue your belief of Darwanism too. Just saying.... it's my belief and I'm sticking to it. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 10:49:35 AM | | So we can't prove WHY they drew it, or what they were trying to envision when they did. The same could be said for any painting anywhere. That is not evidence of anything, save our ability to express ourselves. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 11:10:47 AM | | I can see by your remarks that you are stuck in science and I don't debate with those trapped at this level. You are not ready for the truth. When you are, it will open up to you. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 11:13:35 AM |
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett I believe in an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out. Arthur Hays Sulzberger A great many open minds should be closed for repairs. Toledo Blade
An open mind also allows you to gain knowledge so you do not need to quote others in order to communitcate.
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 11:40:28 AM | Who're you talkin' to Dragon? In either event;
>>> I don't debate with those trapped at this level. You are not ready for the truth. When you are, it will open up to you.
Am I the only one who finds this to be lazy? to argue "I won't debate with you unless you already agree with me" only means you don't wish to debate- it means you're only looking for people to tell you that all you have to do is feel that you are right, and thus, you are. The Pippi Longstocking way to look at the world- all you need to believe it is true, and it is! | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 11:56:05 AM | Science is the only means to arrive at objective "truths" and consistent explanations. It's not something one can be "stuck" in.
Science functions by a process of elimination - that which does not or cannot work, cannot be a cause or explanation. Where a cause cannot yet be determined, the best hypothesis is reasonably assumed to be the one which involves known and real objects and processes.
Thus, although it is possible that rock art depicts aliens and alien flying machines, this explanation is problematic:
Known and real: dating and discovery of part of the artwork does not mean that the parts mentioned fit those dates.
Known and real: dating of the artwork could be wrong due to contamination, new use of old materials, incorrect techniques, or fraud.
Known and real: humans have a history and prehistory of abstract, exaggerated, and distorted artwork. viz - native American totems, Japanese manga, Picasso.
Known and real: a lenticular shape is very simple and can't be decisively identified as anything without a relevant context.
Known and real: an illustration of a humanoid form with a large head and disproportionately large eyes is consistent with children, deformed or dwarved adults, and in some cases by animals in unnatural poses.
Known and real: modern illustrations of aliens vary widely by region and date and largely have no historical precedent before they appeared in known fiction. A connection between the two is tenuous and suspicious.
Not known: aliens, alien technologies, fairies, gnomes, trolls, angels, gods. Not a shred of tangible evidence for any of these.
So you have two sets of explanations: those which conform with known facts, and those which ignore known fact and leap straight to the intangible. When one has these two options, to leap straight to the intangible is irrational.
As a side note, the traditional rock paintings of Sedona are numerous, widespread, and FAR from accurate and detailed depictions. View a sample here:
http://arizona-travel.suite101.com/article.cfm/sedona_rock_art
http://www.susiereedphotos.com/sedona_rock_art_calendar_back.html
http://www.petroglyph.org/
The dates provided are thus far questionable, in that the artwork is widespread [so which have been dated?], ruins and artifacts are associated with the sites [are the dates derived from the artifacts rather than the art?], and the area is popular with artists and alien enthusiasts [how many have "added" to the rock art?]. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 12:28:40 PM | Not lazy my friend, I do not need to debate, nor do I have the time. The truth opens up to you when you are ready. Ah, Pippi, I loved her braids, as do you, it seems.
These may help many of you here on this forum....
http://educate-yourself.org/
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/esp_vida_alien_20a.htm
http://www.forbiddenarcheology.com/
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread402958/pg1
http://www.lawofone.info/
http://www.luisprada.com/Protected/the_lacerta_files.htm | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 12:34:37 PM | | Seen most of those already. They're riddled with fraud, faulty and cherry-picked "facts", and absolutely rife with logical fallacy. Their content has been extensively discussed and refuted in a number of threads already. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 12:37:58 PM |
Again, and this must be the third or fourth time, what about these images imply they are drawing machines? Couldn't it be clouds? An all seeing eye? and whose the say the image represents a sky?
>>>and why not...
You know the arguments for why not. In a nutshell, its physically impossible, and the only alternative is to disregard all our observations of the universe and how it works, simply on the premise that you don't feel its true. Its frankly a very subjective and, dare I say, egotistical way to view the universe, where something must be true because you FEEL it, and proving it is an unnecessary step to claiming it true.
Jip, you did not see the petroglyphs I seen in person... No not a cloud, because it was the typical saucer with a dome.... Over the animals, and other creatures that were below them...
I can NOT say what they mean, however I can say that what I did see had a being that was depicted like one of the tall greys... There were smaller people, which were PEOPLE looking carved drawings around the tall triangle headed, long arms and legs craved drawing (freaking deformed big child)...There was a scorpio, and snake, as well as horses, and something with a longer neck... There are also was the swirl, which nobody knows what that means either...
This argument is like if a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears or sees it, did it not happen??
If a group of deaf people were in the forest and they didn't see the tree fall, and of course didn't hear it, but felt some sort of vibration, is it still not a tree falling???
Frogo, I looked at the site, and the petroglyphs were not on there, and were not painted... As well they were discovered in the 1800's and were drawn out, which there were no add ons from that time...So if in the 1800's their were FLYING saucers with the dome on it, I don't know about them.
I don't have pictures to show, because I wasn't expecting to get to see them, was on a prewedding journey, however I am sure if I call the shaman that took us up there, I could get pictures....
However sadly I don't think that would mean much....
Jip what we know as impossible, is as far as our own knowledge is... In 1962 it was only a dream to get to the moon, before that, space flight was considered NOT possible... We have been to the moon and back and even managed to build a space station. Once again something not considered possible fifty yrs prior to that even.
I am comfortable with believe other things are possible...
That isn't throwing science out, that isn't believing anything one way or another, it is just giving it a possibility. It is being open to the idea there is a hell of a lot more to learn about this world, and that somethings may have MANY explanations, but then again maybe they are what they look like...
I am sure that in this world, my willingness to be open to other ideas is NOT harmful, nor is it going to matter to diddly ounces to anyone else. I have my own career path that does NOT include the need to prove of disprove aliens. I still hold my degree in the medical field, that also didn't require my thoughts on aliens...
Once again my thoughts are, they are possible... that doesn't mean probable, or for sure, just possible and from my own interest I have seen the saucer shapes in hieroglyphs in Egypt, as well as in Renaissance paintings, which weren't added after flying machines happened...
Granted they could be something else, I wouldn't know, I don't claim to know... I just know what I seen in person, and "anecdotal" first hand stories, and experiences. What I find sad is that these experiences seem to NOT COUNT, because a "scientist" with some long list of credentials didn't see them. Then again those who have a long list of credentials are said to be frauds, even if they are in the military...
So I guess if a tree falls in the forest, and a scientist, that is believe by the scientific community wasn't there to witness it, to replicate it again, and to test all aspects of the occurrence to pass scientific proof, it never happened...
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 12:58:15 PM | So I guess if a tree falls in the forest, and a scientist, that is believe by the scientific community wasn't there to witness it, to replicate it again, and to test all aspects of the occurrence to pass scientific proof, it never happened...
Most of these analogies are poor ones, since everything about the analog can be tested and falls in the "known and real" category. Trees exist, forests exist, trees fall. It's reasonable to believe that an unobserved tree has fallen, because we know it has happened before. Without a shred of tangible evidence for extraterrestrials, they cannot be a parsimonious explanation. With tangible evidence for alternate explanations, ETs become far less credible still.
As well they were discovered in the 1800's and were drawn out, which there were no add ons from that time...
All of which, at this point, is unsubstantiated claims as well as non-parsimonious explanations. More significantly, you indicate that they don't look like the *genuine* paleo rock art in the links I provided. Again, that casts doubt on their veracity.
So if in the 1800's their were FLYING saucers with the dome on it, I don't know about them
And yet, this concept is a modern one from science fiction, and saucer shaped flying machines are very rare among man-made machines. There simply isn't a good precedent on which to base the conclusion that the simple shape must be a flying machine. All we have is a post hoc fallacy based on modern fictitious concepts.
and from my own interest I have seen the saucer shapes in hieroglyphs in Egypt, as well as in Renaissance paintings, which weren't added after flying machines happened
Same problem. Simple shape with a complex and unsupported conclusion associated with a post hoc fallacy.
None of which is to conclude that the illustrations DO NOT depict aliens or alien technology. I am simply saying that thus far, the evidence does not rationally support those conclusions. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 3:10:48 PM |
An open mind also allows you to gain knowledge so you do not need to quote others in order to communitcate.
I'm perfectly willing to be convinced of extraterrestrial visitations, but there hasn't yet been any convincing proof presented ; ancient carvings or paintings that some say "could be crude representations of UFOs" are hardly proof.
Some piece of extraterrstrial hardware or technology would be convincing ( oh I forgot, that evidence does exist, but it's being supressed by the government-vatican-fill-in-the-blank group. | |
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| Humans created by Aliens: Plausible theory?
Posted: 9/16/2009 6:25:23 PM | Frogeyes, ya know I respect the hell out of ya... My SIMPLY point was this... These are real recognized petroglyphs, I have seen the deeper carved ones on National geo channel, so and they wouldn't be documented and protected if they weren't. It just wouldn't make financial sense.
I hear what you are saying... However I also find it interesting that these particular shapes have a long run in multitudes of cultures. These things are spoken about, and despite the fact that they are considered "anecdotal", people seen something that was not normal or in their daily world.
I also understand about translating someone elses art, I can say for sure that my art pieces even though painted in a realistic term, have a totally different meaning for me, then how they would be translated.
As I stated back about 30 pages, I also worked with a young adult that had a very "unexplainable experience in the desert". These things and a few other "anecdotes" give me the impression of a plausible existence.
These beings are probably long extinguished, and never will be seen again, which is fine, because our society certainly can't handle the human race.
Scientifically, meh, I wouldn't say that these things are scientific proof, but at least for me give me pause... I am willing to listen more, and see what may still exist, which there may never be an existence again...
My opinion means nothing, so there is no need to convince me of anything... I believe in a possibility, but my life isn't ruled by any aliens return, or anything of the sort... It is just more of a passing interest, which as an open minded person is fun to entertain, and to explore the possibilities when I can....
Unless I try to convince people to put tinfoil on their heads, and to beware of certain dates, WHICH I did get sucked into a long while back.... I am harmless...
I would suggest anyone to go to Sedona as a great place to visit, in the winter or late fall time.... It is peaceful, beautiful, and has wonderful places to hike and explore.
We went to Montazuma's Castles Ruins as well, they were fascinating, and I would love to know where those people went, and why they up and left. Since these people didn't leave good records it is left up to guess, but knowing these people existed in such a harsh environment is amazing...
Did they get sucked up by aliens??? I don't think so... | |
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