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 AUTHOR
 lifeStudent
Joined: 2/16/2008
Msg: 176
God in a wordPage 8 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
Tyee,
You are confusing the human race with God. God came to teach us to be good to each other, forgiving, charitable, helpful and many other positive ways. The human race has chosen (yes he gave us free choice) to do horrible acts to each other. It was people who let Hitler kill millions of Jews, people of African lineage and Slavic's were also on his list. It was people that let Stalin kill even more of his own citizens. Just like it were self righteous do good er Christians that gave infected blankets to Canada's Aboriginal people. God has nothing to do with the evil that men do to each other. It is a sad excuse to not have faith. Even if you choose not to believe in God, Jesus is recorded in history, just like Abraham and Mohamed (the last prophesied prophet).

Just like most prefer to believe the worst of others they choose to believe God lets the horrible things happen. People let the sh*t happen and people need to take responsibility for each other.

Just my opinion.
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 177
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History
God in a word
Posted: 12/4/2008 11:46:15 PM
Indifferent. Cruel. Vindictive.

Someone who loves you like an abusive husband loves his wife with two black eyes. He tolerates her when she does what he wants but as soon as she steps out of line she pays in the most brutal way.
Someone who was so overjoyed at the torture and death of His only son that He rewarded mankind for it. Yay we can go to heaven now! If only He made more sons for us to kill off just imagine what we'd get.
 Life is Always Good
Joined: 10/8/2008
Msg: 178
God in a word
Posted: 12/4/2008 11:54:24 PM
Just a tiny bit off the line there.......perhaps 2 pills tonight would be better than one.
 FunnyAndSweet48
Joined: 8/21/2007
Msg: 179
God in a word
Posted: 12/5/2008 1:09:34 AM

God came to teach us to be good to each other, forgiving, charitable, helpful and many other positive ways. The human race has chosen (yes he gave us free choice) to do horrible acts to each other.... God has nothing to do with the evil that men do to each other. It is a sad excuse to not have faith.

 XHTML
Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 180
God in a word
Posted: 12/5/2008 3:31:30 PM
lifestudent msg 177 ^^^


Tyee,
You are confusing the human race with God. God came to teach us to be good to each other, forgiving, charitable, helpful and many other positive ways. The human race has chosen (yes he gave us free choice) to do horrible acts to each other. It was people who let Hitler kill millions of Jews, people of African lineage and Slavic's were also on his list. It was people that let Stalin kill even more of his own citizens. Just like it were self righteous do good er Christians that gave infected blankets to Canada's Aboriginal people. God has nothing to do with the evil that men do to each other. It is a sad excuse to not have faith. Even if you choose not to believe in God, Jesus is recorded in history, just like Abraham and Mohamed (the last prophesied prophet).

Just like most prefer to believe the worst of others they choose to believe God lets the horrible things happen. People let the sh*t happen and people need to take responsibility for each other.

Just my opinion.


You are telling that I'm confused? I disagree.

Christians are taught/indoctrinated that God is all-powerful.

We have the account of God parting the Red Sea during the march of Moses when he led the Hebrews (Israelites) on their escape out of Egypt, so they would be able to enter the Promised Land.

Let's not forget God is reputed to have created the Earth in 7 days and 7 nights.

There are other tales of his might but these two alone are mighty impressive feats and will serve to demonstrate my point.

So if there such a god who is so all-powerful how can a rational person be persuaded to believe that he created millions of people to be slaughtered and tortured by the hands of others. Moreover, all those people that committed the crimes against humanity are products of his creation too.

If indeed god has the power to create the Earth and part the sea it is most reasonable he has the power to prevent misery.

You said "God had nothing to do with the evil that men do to each other." His choice? If he truly cared about his flocks he'd do a better job. Hence my choice of words "inept" and "uncaring" in Msg 7.

To live on this planet, with so much evil and hatred we need to find somewhere the strength to go on. Some believe in a god of their choosing.

Arguments like "he gave us free choice", are the rationalizations some turn to, for nothing else makes sense and they want and need to believe in something. How else can the misery be explained if not by believing its his great plan.

For the record, and as I've said before, I do not find fault with people who have faith and need to believe in something. I am proud to have many for friends and I'm quite certain they feel that way about me.

For the record OP in the opening post did NOT specify the discussion was limited to the Christian god, and I believe has not as of yet done so.
 FunnyAndSweet48
Joined: 8/21/2007
Msg: 181
God in a word
Posted: 12/5/2008 5:37:56 PM
I think that life is full of tests & lessons to be learned from the choices we make. God gave us free will to choose between right & wrong. If we make the wrong choice, we only have ourselves to blame but hopefully we will learn something from having made that wrong move & not do it again. Unfortunately some people are unwilling to accept the blame themselves, so they blame someone else or God instead.

Yes, the senseless death of children & others is absolutely atrocious. But through experiencing the loss of a child or some other earth-shattering trauma, there are valuable lessons we learn about ourselves, about people, love & life. I believe that wherever they are, those who have passed on are living happy, pain-free & wonderful lives, so instead of being angry that God took them away from us before we were ready to let them go, we should focus on being thankful that we had them for the time we did.
 Mountain Lion 1
Joined: 10/25/2006
Msg: 182
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History
God in a word
Posted: 12/5/2008 6:02:01 PM
^^^ and here I thought god created man as a likeness to himself.... sorry when I get confused here............

and then god took a rib of Adam and created a woman.....
still wonder why a rib of all things..... but I shall not think evil thoughts ....

and then he made the 10 commandments (actually 12 and then some... Exodus 20:2–17)

1. I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
2. You shall have no other gods before me
3. You shall not make for yourself an idolfor I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, sheesh do we have an inferiority complex...lol
4. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God [o]for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name. vindictive too ain't he
5. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy ...capitalist too???
6. Honor your father and mother
7. You shall not murder
8. You shall not commit adultery
9. You shall not steal
10. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
11. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
12. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor
 XHTML
Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 183
God in a word
Posted: 12/5/2008 6:03:10 PM
FAS

Did the millions of Jews who died at the hands of Nazis, or the hundreds of thousands of Rwandan Tutsis hacked and chopped to bits Hutu militia make a choice they they might learn from? No, they had no choice.

They were born as Jews or Tutsis and died for it. What lesson should they have have learned? Perhaps they fell asleep in class and flunked the quiz?

What lesson might the people who perished n the World Trade Centre towers learn?

Perhaps you are suggesting millions should suffer so others may learn lessons?

Who gets to choose their fate. Who is going to volunteer to be slaughtered so the rest of mankind can learn from their death?

FAS, are you going to the front of the queue in the group to be slaughtered so we can learn? Will you push or urge your children to that lineup?

Is it not this god who would choose the fate for the participants in his experiment?
 FunnyAndSweet48
Joined: 8/21/2007
Msg: 184
God in a word
Posted: 12/5/2008 8:30:59 PM

Perhaps you are suggesting millions should suffer so others may learn lessons?
Yes, that is sort of my point, that sometimes world suffering ... disasters such as the World Trade Towers situation, etc. occur so that society as a whole can be shaken up & start trying to find ways to live in peace. Perhaps these disasters might have altered the attitudes of those who would have otherwise walked the wrong path in life & become terrorists or mass murderers themselves ... who knows?


FAS, are you going to the front of the queue in the group to be slaughtered so we can learn? Will you push or urge your children to that lineup?
If I'm ever placed in a position of me or them, yes I would rather place myself in the line for slaughter rather than live forever with the guilt that someone else died because I didn't step forward. I've had this discussion with friends & family before & I believe my children would do the same.


and then god took a rib of Adam and created a woman.....
still wonder why a rib of all things..... but I shall not think evil thoughts ....

Maybe if God had taken Adam's wienie & given it to woman, she would not mistake it for her brain as man has often been known to do.
 PhatFat the WaterRat
Joined: 9/11/2008
Msg: 185
God in a word
Posted: 12/5/2008 8:43:17 PM
after reading through many of these posts.....not saying WHICH ones....

Maybe if God had taken Adam's wienie & given it to woman, she would not mistake it for her brain as man has often been known to do.
.........
then wouldn't this be a bit like the blind leading the blind?

it is interesting to see how folks justify their beliefs and claim to abide by them,..... when push comes to shove,... we'll see.
 XHTML
Joined: 6/5/2008
Msg: 186
God in a word
Posted: 12/5/2008 9:15:07 PM

Yes, that is sort of my point, that sometimes world suffering ... disasters such as the World Trade Towers situation, etc. occur so that society as a whole can be shaken up & start trying to find ways to live in peace. Perhaps these disasters might have altered the attitudes of those who would have otherwise walked the wrong path in life & become terrorists or mass murderers themselves ... who knows?


.... start trying to find ways to live in peace.

I cited only more recent examples. Throughout recorded history humanity is filled with seekers of peace and also makers of grief and takers of lives.

Perhaps this analogy will help me illustrate my point.
Keep in mind that believers preach that god is supremely powerful, knows everything and sees everything.

You are the caretaker/shepherd/playground supervisor and you are the only one in authority and far more powerful than your charges/sheep in your flock/children in your playground.

You become aware that some nasty individuals (let's call them bullies) in your flock hatch a plan to hurt the meeker individuals. It matters not how you became aware of the plan, whether you saw them carrying machetes, filling buildings with poisonous gas or hijacking an airliner, because after all, you know and see everything.

Now remember you are powerful. You have the power to intervene. You have the power to part the Red Sea and the power to make the Earth in 7 days and 7 nights, so surely can change their thoughts from evil thoughts to peaceful thoughts. Alternately you could smite them or turn them into stone or pillar of salt (as god has been reputed to have done). Ultimately you CAN stop the bullies.

FAS. From what I have learned of you I believe you are caring and loving person. Would you stop the bullies? I think you would.

So why doesn't your all-powerful, all-knowing god stop them?


If I'm ever placed in a position of me or them, yes I would rather place myself in the line for slaughter rather than live forever with the guilt that someone else died because I didn't step forward. I've had this discussion with friends & family before & I believe my children would do the same.


I don't doubt for a moment that you would make the noble sacrifice, if you have a choice. My point is millions weren't given a choice.
 lifeStudent
Joined: 2/16/2008
Msg: 187
God in a word
Posted: 12/5/2008 9:23:30 PM
T, You are not differentiating between the old testament and the new testament. Abraham, David, Moses etc. are from the old testament also the Jewish Bible. The new testament starts with Jesus, and He said that we were to go by the new rules and God's interventions ended. Not to say that apparitions at Lourdes and Medjugorje are not real, I believe they are. God does not put people into bad situations, we have done that all by ourselves and keep making the same mistakes over and over and then some dare to mock Him.
It was not my parents that took me to mass, they were sleeping when I went as a 9 year old almost every Sunday and at lunch through the week. My parents rarely went and that was well after I was already a member with my own envelopes.

I find it sad that so many do not embrace His gifts.

What are you doing to make the world less harsh? Do you do missionary work, teaching the less fortunate how to grow crops, build sanitary systems, drill wells, organize clothing drives and send books to countries where they don't have any?

I know of people from my place of worship who are putting their lives on the line in India to bring religious freedom to people in India. Did you know that along with the less fortunate of this planet there are 450 Christians who die for the cause in third world countries daily, a fact you could look up.

It is not critical to belong to a certain Church, but faith is not a crutch it is like the air I breath and the arms I use to hold my child.

Organized religion has damaged/corrupted some of the message but not it's essence, but men tend to break that which needs no fixing.
 FunnyAndSweet48
Joined: 8/21/2007
Msg: 188
God in a word
Posted: 12/5/2008 9:44:06 PM
^^^Tyeee: If I were in charge of kids on a playground, etc. & there was trouble, yes, I would step in the way to protect the children or whoever. I chaperoned a party this summer with about 40 kids in their mid 20's & had to break up a fight at 1 a.m. when a bully decided to throw a punch at a guy he didn't like & a whole bunch of guys got into the fight. I was asked to take on the job of chaperoning so it was my duty to intervene.

However, when there were disputes between two kids in my daycare, I would sit them both down in chairs about two feet away from each other, tell them that nobody was going to move until they settled their problem. Then I would watch from a distance. I did the same whenever my two boys got into fights.

Yes, I had the power to intervene but I didn't. My goal was to allow them to learn how to resolve their differences, get over their anger, jealousies, etc. by talking it out with each other. I was trying to teach them the important life lesson of how to resolve conflict by using this tactic.

I believe that in the same way, God sometimes watches from a distance & doesn't get involved in order to teach us these life lessons & sometimes He does intervene, through answered prayer for example.
 Wind Chimez
Joined: 11/21/2008
Msg: 189
God in a word
Posted: 12/5/2008 10:05:07 PM
The trouble with learning lifes lessons the hard way, someone might lose a life and they can never be given a second chance ,it's too late. We only get once chance sometimes and only live once. The lessons might be learned by others but not for the one that died.
Sadly there are many that don't learn from others mistakes and their chance to change has gone forever....
 FunnyAndSweet48
Joined: 8/21/2007
Msg: 190
God in a word
Posted: 12/6/2008 2:05:36 PM
I always feel for those who have lost loved ones & are left behind to continue life suffering the grief & heartache of having lost someone that meant everything to them. But I never worry about those who have passed on because I believe that they're probably looking at us & saying, "Come on people, get over it already. Look at me ... I'm doing great & having the best time of my life!"

I think people are taken from us because they have already learned their life lessons or completed their mission on earth, whatever that might be ... could be lessons they needed to personally learn or lessons they needed to teach others directly or indirectly. So when their work here is done, God takes them back so He can send them on a different mission. Just my theory on life .....

I find that as I go through the bumps in life, I am slowly becoming more & more aware of what I am already doing well, what I need to learn, what I need to accomplish, what I need to change & what I need to overcome. Now actually getting to it is quite the challenge, but once we have awareness, then it's just a matter of finding the strength to get it done. That's where "my Father" comes in, when I find that I just can't do it on my own & need someone to turn to for advice or strength, I turn to my heavenly Daddy.
 Mountain Lion 1
Joined: 10/25/2006
Msg: 191
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God in a word
Posted: 12/6/2008 2:25:35 PM

Maybe if God had taken Adam's wienie & given it to woman, she would not mistake it for her brain as man has often been known to do

my recent anatomy studies suggest he did give women a wienie...
seems he had some foresight and adjusted the size to hold but one function
indecision


... I am already doing well, what I need to learn, what I need to accomplish, what I need to change & what I need to overcome

that's not much different from what a paramecium does, its called living and surviving...
 FunnyAndSweet48
Joined: 8/21/2007
Msg: 192
God in a word
Posted: 12/6/2008 2:44:42 PM
Definition of Paramecium: Any ciliated freshwater protozoan of the genus Paramecium, having an oval body and a long, deep oral groove.

I don't know about my body being oval-shaped, but as for the rest of that definition ..... (snicker! snicker!)

I always knew that long, deep groove was meant to be used for oral purposes.
 Mountain Lion 1
Joined: 10/25/2006
Msg: 193
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God in a word
Posted: 12/6/2008 3:37:52 PM

I don't know about my body being oval-shaped,...

god only knows I won't go there

Paramecium ...made you look that up did I? You forgot to mention the hair on its outer layer

funny how ya're so sweet to avoid ' the head' thingy
fas
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 194
God in a word
Posted: 12/8/2008 5:49:57 PM
God in a word: misunderstood. By definition God embodies all goodness so it is senseless to say things like God is cruel. For some reason, goodness is often misunderstood.

I think men and women are cruel and we need to take ownership for the atrocities that happen on this planet. If we do not, we will not evolve.
 PhatFat the WaterRat
Joined: 9/11/2008
Msg: 195
God in a word
Posted: 12/8/2008 8:08:40 PM

By definition God embodies all goodness so it is senseless to say things like God is cruel. For some reason, goodness is often misunderstood.


RIIIIIIIGHT.... and this would be where those who have trouble believing ask if HE is such a kind and loving God then why do the children suffer so???? Certainly you cannot suggest they somehow have brought this on themselves?
MISUNDERSTOOD would be absolutely correct then.
 mrchicken
Joined: 5/16/2008
Msg: 196
God in a word
Posted: 12/8/2008 9:57:04 PM
Try and post one word, the system won't let you.
Try and discribe god in a word.
IMPOSSIBLE

Hats off to you L ight storm !
 Xavery
Joined: 4/22/2007
Msg: 199
God in a word
Posted: 12/9/2008 6:32:36 PM
RIIIIIIIGHT.... and this would be where those who have trouble believing ask if HE is such a kind and loving God then why do the children suffer so???? Certainly you cannot suggest they somehow have brought this on themselves?
MISUNDERSTOOD would be absolutely correct then.


Sometimes people do bring suffering onto themselves but I don't think that is the point.

Your question is a hard one to answer and I am not sure of the answer myself. I think that Theologians might argue that it is has something do to with God giving man free will because Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge. Because man has free will, he make poor choices and inflicts suffering upon himself and others.

I know on a smaller scale sometimes it is necessary to let others make mistakes so that they have an opportunity to learn from them. Perhaps God decided that she/he should let humankind find their own way - learn from our mistakes and let history teach us something.

Our suffering is transcient. It, too, shall pass. Since time has no beginning or end, we are really on this earth for a very short time and perhaps we need to learn something from our pain. I have heard people say that God will give you no bigger challenge than you can handle.
 Uncovered
Joined: 9/7/2008
Msg: 200
God in a word
Posted: 12/10/2008 5:54:57 AM
It is impossible to confine God to just one word.
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