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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/8/2008 11:58:51 AM | | I do love my son unconditionally. If he robbed a bank, or killed someone, I will still love him as my son...I would not support him, bail him out and allow him to harm others...but I would still love him, as painful as that may be. To me, this is the definition of unconditional love. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 7:09:25 AM | If the OP was intending to ask if a man who is not a father can love her as well as a man who is, then the thread has gone off topic.
I doubt anyone who is not a parent can feel true motherly or fatherly love. Perhaps someone can bond in a similar way to an adopted child--I would hope so, or a child s/he is an important care giver for.
But we can never really know what it is like to be in someone else's experience.
I have a deep love of animals and some people can't understand that at all. I don't care for a lot of children and don't have at ALL that instinct to coo and say oh how darling/cute when seeing an infant or small child. The neonatal traits of large eyes, baby face, etc. do not trigger the primal urge to nurture.
So I can not know what that is like in others.
But men and women who are not parents can indeed love deeply and unconditionally. Or as close to that as is possible for non saints. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 7:30:55 AM | | Of course it's possible...after all, a man can learn to love his mother unconditionally! Then again, sadly, men without children seem to be more on the selfish side. Really, it's all about the man. A good man learns to love even without children and some men never learn even if they do have kids!!! | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 7:56:37 AM | Unconditional love for our children of course, actually an unconditional acceptance for them no matter what they do !!!.... the good , the bad, or the ugly 
We love them unconditionally, we may not like what they're doing at times, however loving them never stops.
Well ... for healthy loving parents that is.
As for intimate relationships...Unconditional Acceptance ! Uncondional Love ! 
is the ONLY way it'll work........ 
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 8:25:36 AM | | Yes, it is possible to feel unconditional love even if you haven't had a child. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 8:30:02 AM |
Of course it's possible...after all, a man can learn to love his mother unconditionally! Then again, sadly, men without children seem to be more on the selfish side. Really, it's all about the man. A good man learns to love even without children and some men never learn even if they do have kids!!!
WTF? this is quite sexist thinking..assuming that only men need to 'learn to love'?
there are plenty of women who seem incapable of real love..
there are mothers who do not love their children..it's not an 'automatic' thing.
there was a well-publicized case of a woman (Susan Smith) who drowned her 2 young kids because her new boyfriend voiced the opinion that they were an 'inconvenience'..
I'm sure this was not the only case like this in history.. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 9:00:41 AM | | There is no such thing as unconditional love. If one does not do as one is expected to do then they are not meeting conditions and therefor are not loved unconditionally.. If love was unconditional then there would be no crime and punishment, no sins. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 11:00:14 AM | this logic doesn't hold. I love a number of people who have not always met my expectations. they were not put on this earth to fit my expectations. I have not always met their expectations or wishes for what they would like me to do. but we still love each other.
many laws and 'crimes' are cultural taboos and cultural 'sins'.
my definition of sin is to hurt someone else and at times, things, unnecessarily. hurting myself is simply stupid and something to learn from. all else is cultural taboos. paraphrased from my favorite author robert heinlein in case anyone noticed.
love has nothing to do with crime and punishment in my way of thinking. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 11:26:30 AM | Love holds no logic.The two can not mix. In order to have logic one most not have any emotions. One must be very cold.
Love is a condition itself. Love can destroy and love can create. It usually destroys and hurts. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 1:55:54 PM | OMG HOW SAD! I couldnt read all these posts ...sorry folks but UNCONDITONAL LOVE REALLY DOES EXIST!!! Its not a fairy tale. I have been fortunate enough to both be able to give and recieve unconditional love. I have given and recieved it from my deceased spouce, children and my mom in law!!! And yes, to my furbabies.
Goddess reading these posts is making me sad and scared. Seems I had the best relationship a person could ever want ..I was with my soulmate. I pray I can get another chance like that in this lifetime. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 2:02:30 PM | | Well basically, there is no such thing as unconditional love in romantic relationships. It has nothing to do with being a parent. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 3:03:45 PM | Wow bobisherenow, how sad for you. and how wrong you are.
emotions are quite literally the biochemical responses that give you feedback on what is good or bad for you.
I'm a data junkie by nature interested in many subjects, picking up details many people would neither want to know or remember. I'm not bs'ing on this. read the book "animals in translation' by Temple Grandin. She's a high functioning austistic working with livestock. Her unique perspective does indeed help us understand how animals perceive, understand, and respond to the world. As well as us so called normal humans.
In one chapter she describes people with brain injury to one specific part of the brain that identifies emotions. I don't recall if the connection from this part was damaged interfering with access to emotions or if it was damaged and the emotions not available at all. same net effect in either case.
Here's the proof you are wrong. These people seem normal in everyday conversation and can function reasonably well. BUT they can't make decisions on what they want or what is good for them! they talk about all the logic, what would taste good for dinner, what clothes might look nice, what they can afford, what is too expensive, all the LOGIC is there. But while knowing it in there head, there is no 'gut' feeling that says this would really feel good or bad in the end and that lack is apparently vital to decision making. These people waffle back and forth until they perhaps toss a coin or someone makes a decision for them. Emotions are involved in human processing of logical decision making. That your emotional response is that it usually destroys and hurts says much about how hurt you must be. Your reaction to attempt to be cold and numb is understandable yet will cost you dearly.
People who succeed at cutting off emotions are the walking dead. Most don't succeed without drastic self medication through alcohol, other addictive substances or addictive behaviors.
Emotions are the juice of life. You can't have the opportunity for joy without the risk of pain. I've had grievous losses of loved ones. the pain of their loss is the price I've paid for all the wonderful things I shared in life and take with me for all of my life.
Good luck to you Bob in learning how to move past the pain, learn to open up to emotions and know that even when it hurts, life with emotions is truly life itself.
Choose life, choose emotions, choose happiness.
If you are truly so hurt that all emotions are painful, then you sound like you're in a deep clinical depression. been there, done that and done with that. I came damn close to choosing to stop breathing when the pain was more than I thought I could bear. I chose life, refused to keep merely existing in pain and made a determination that life would again be worth living. And succeeded, it CAN be done. Please find yourself a good counselor and find life again.
that you wrote what you did here is a call for help. go get some not only for yourself but because when we heal ourselves, we bring healing into the world and that adds good energy, something this planet needs desperately. ok, perhaps a bit too new age for some. yet it seems to work.
thoughts become things, choose the good ones! | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 4:20:11 PM |
Couples have the advantage of saying "I love you...and I am going to tell you what takes away from that love"
Unconditional...till you find her dancing the horizontal bop with someone else... but then that means you have to be faithful...thats a condition...
Silly concept...
When you catch a spouse cheating, and you leave them, it doesn't mean you stop loving them, it means you can no longer live with them, as you no longer trust them. You may love someone with every fiber of your being, but it doesn't mean that it will be healthy or wise to live with that person. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 4:27:36 PM |
Well basically, there is no such thing as unconditional love in romantic relationships. It has nothing to do with being a parent.
I agree with that. In a relationship that is based purely on romance, there is no such thing as unconditional love. Romantic love is about as substainal as a bowel of jello. It often ends as quickly as it started. However when it comes to real love between a man and a woman, yes of course there is unconditional love. You know you truly love someone when their happiness is more important than your own. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 4:32:46 PM |
You know you truly love someone when their happiness is more important than your own.
That's not real love, that's losing yourself. My friend's husband's happiness is more important to her than her own and last time I checked, she was being used and abused by him in more than one way. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 5:24:54 PM |
That's not real love, that's losing yourself. My friend's husband's happiness is more important to her than her own and last time I checked, she was being used and abused by him in more than one way.
Sorry but that has nothing to do with what I said. I hate to say it but your friend is just being stupid and I doubt the husband is one bit happy. Happy people don't hurt the ones that love them.
A good example of what I mean would be using myself. I dated a man for a year, this was five years ago. I will always love him, he is a good person, but he simply did not feel the same way, not a huge deal. I had rather him be happy with someone else than be with me and not be happy.
I really don't understand the idea of losing yourself. If you are secure in who you are, you can not be made to lose yourself. Putting the needs of those you love ahead of your own is a timeless way to show you love them, be it a child, a spouse or any other human on earth. Letting someone abuse you is not showing you love the abuser, just the opposite. They have a problem, and your letting them abuse you is keeping them from getting the help they need. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 5:54:17 PM | Interesting question. Having children could change the way you view life, maybe, and might help you to learn to love unconditionally. Assuming your a good parent (selfless.) Being single there is more room for the ego to maintain control. Marriage has to potential to reduce ones ego. The better the marriage the smaller the ego. Married with children there is little room for an ego/being self centered that is if your a "good father/husband. All these depend on how good of a husband or parent you are both capable of being and willing to suffer (the death of your ego.)
Anyone can love unconditionally. the above puts a person in a position for ego deflation and the possibility to learn to love unconditionally. There are many other live experiences and conditions that can have the same effects for ego deflation.
I want to separate something here and be very clear. Having children in it self changes the mother much more then the father. The mother's relationship with the child is biological. I believe there is nothing stronger then that bond. Men on the other hand have a very different experience. They have a choice on how bonded they will be. And that is strongly influenced by there willingness to deal with their father issues that come up in their relationships with there son/daughter [more so with their son.] The most common outcome is that the father continues to dump his father issues on his son, sadly and unconditional love is lost.
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 6:13:30 PM | I want to separate something here and be very clear. Having children in it self changes the mother much more then the father. The mother's relationship with the child is biological. I believe there is nothing stronger then that bond. Men on the other hand have a very different experience. They have a choice on how bonded they will be. And that is strongly influenced by there willingness to deal with their father issues that come up in their relationships with there son/daughter [more so with their son.] The most common outcome is that the father continues to dump his father issues on his son, sadly and unconditional love is lost.
hi beachst....hmmm...that may be your experience with children, but It is not mine, and I bet not a lot of other men as well.
Did you know that my relationship with my sons...is also biological.? Just checking. There are only a few moments in one's life that are truly life altering....and when I first held my babies....my life changed...forever, in that moment.
Every woman,...and every man has a choice about 'everything'...and that includes their relationship or bond with their children, and how they express it.
Of course, a newborn doesn't come with a manual....but, it is interesting how a motherly, or a fatherly instinct just surfaces, in a rather natural and organic way,
Actually, I raised my boys to be very strong and independent..ask them? haha...oh, and I always reminded them to question everything....but mostly, to just 'be' themselves......for I just 'knew' that someday they would be on their own path..just as I was. They were not raised how I was raised, or I would even hazard to guess how my parent's were raised.
It's a unique bond..and I really did not view it as an extension of my own special name, or tribe....but rather viewed them as a gift...a rare and special gift that entered into my life...
I cherish them today...the same as I did on the first day I ever saw them. I feel blessed they were in my life....my boys made me into a better man. I truly believe this.
Kimbo***********************************************8 | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/9/2008 6:53:29 PM | | I think that term can be confusing to people who do have children, let alone if you don't. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/10/2008 1:56:50 AM | Hello Lily,
Great topic!
Watched a show on the baby boomers tonight...
Yes I think a man can live unconditionaly at least to the extent that he can understand it. Sometimes it takes longer for some than others.
TensawEagle | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/10/2008 5:30:02 AM | Unconditional Love is nothing more than a tool used to control people.
Love is a very evil thing and so are emotions. Love and emotions should be done away with and only logic should be used. Once love is ruled obsolete and no longer needed humans will finally be free. Love only causes hurt, anger, pain and suffering. It does not allow humanity to progress. It holds humanity back. Love is a condition and a social disease.. But with discipline, reasoning and only accepting logic, this terrible and heart breaking disease can be cured. Remember, if you love something or someone, your love will turn to hate when they or it fails you or betrays you. So therefore love and unconditional love only hurts.
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/10/2008 5:46:14 AM | | You are so wrong Bob.I had unconditional love every day of my sons life until he died at the age of 25 6 months ago. He brought me joy EVERY day.Did he do some things wrong? Of course,he was human. But he was my heart and soul.But I wouldnt change having him in my life for anything in this world.I would rather have loved and lost then never to have loved at all. | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/10/2008 6:31:33 AM | living in a confined box as society has shaped and conformed most of us to , where to live who to love , what to wear , eat and drink ?? and we ask about unconditional love ?? one source i know definitely defines "unconditional love " GOD !! we speak of unconditional love but are we in our apparent state cabable of such a feet ??? are we really ??? you say because we have children ?? single men are selfish and immature ? ? single parent lack unconditional love !one says ??? you have to lovbe puppies ??? you all missed the point ``````````````````````````````````````` any form of love has no condition !! especially "unconditional love " GOD !! gave his only son to die for mankind who hated him , didn't believe him , cursed him , denied him , say all manor of evil things against him !! yet he loved him "unconditionally " his son died for our sins !!
i'm sure no one here in POF can compare thier love to God 's love for us !! including me !! i ask you would you sacrifice your child for a people who hated you and disbelieved you ever exist ??? ummmm !!touch question uh ??
i couldn't even attempt to pose the question unconditional love !!without experiencing my mother's love !!yes even in mt limited understanding of what love is at the time , this was unconditional love to me !! she birthed me , nurture me , supported me , had endless passion , compassion and affection for me !fed me , clothed me , even disciplined me !! this defines "unconditional love " ??? absolutely not !! as far as humanly possible unconditionally loving someone , to us this is unconditional love !!but on one level only !! true " love " incorporates all aspects of life !!natural and spiritual !!can we just love with our hearts ??? emotiona and feelings ? or is there an aspect not so clearly defined !! we speaak of our soulmates !! define soulmate ??
we often say i love you with all my heart and soul !! soul ?? being our spiritual being ??
where love truly resides , our innate connection with the living God ??
he say of all the commandments !! Love is the greatest of all , cause if we truly love , we'll obey all the rest !! no!not a sermon !!lol !! enlightenment !! as i have found in my personal life with God !!
no i'm not some fanatic , holy roller, carsmactic genus or even go to church on a regular basis , it what i expoerienced with my mother before she died !!teaching me God's ways , not just in church by real life !!
uncondiotional love ?? impossible for just the flesh to give , must come from our souls that part of us we're unwilling to share with someone , because we don't want to be seen as weird or strange !! unpopular !!amongs our peers !! to me who cares ??
when you experienced the ultimate honor and priviledge to embrace God's unconditional love , by surrendering your self to him , mind body and soul !! you get it ??now !!
fleshly man puts limitation all everything, our children, lovers wives , husbands, our jobs, family , friends , even how we live !! so how can "unconditional love exist there??
God said a "child " shall lead them !! why ?? a child has no limitation when they love !! its endless !! or hatred ,or bigotry !! pure innocence !! that's where "unconditional love exist "
open your heart and minds !!outside the conformity of society's confined box !! search something greater then yourselves "transparent " not so easly seen !! hoily spirit !! i pray lead them to a path few travel on !! that leads to uncontional love !!
love all of you on here !! when a man or woman fail to learn or evolve thier already dead !!
isaiahslove   | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/10/2008 8:13:08 AM |
Unconditional Love is nothing more than a tool used to control people.
Love is a very evil thing and so are emotions. Love and emotions should be done away with and only logic should be used. Once love is ruled obsolete and no longer needed humans will finally be free. Love only causes hurt, anger, pain and suffering. It does not allow humanity to progress. It holds humanity back. Love is a condition and a social disease.. But with discipline, reasoning and only accepting logic, this terrible and heart breaking disease can be cured. Remember, if you love something or someone, your love will turn to hate when they or it fails you or betrays you. So therefore love and unconditional love only hurts.
It sounds like you've been blindsided mightily by Love , dear Bob,
like almost every other Human, at some point. I am sorry it has you pinned into this dark corner and belief system,
You already know, that it would be fruitless for anyone to comment, or try to rebut what 'you ' feel, so I won't
All I will say about Love, is that all of the words, reason, and logic, and thinking about it have , and never will move people even an inch forward towards it.
Being Love, experiencing Love, accepting and giving love is, in my view the 'only' thing that will lead us to 'freedom'. Otherwise, you will most likely continue to be a prisoner within your own mind.
feel better
Kimbo*************************************************** | |
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| Unconditional Love
Posted: 12/10/2008 1:29:59 PM | Bob, before I felt you were simply hurting so bad you were numb. Now I think you're full of crap and enjoy wallowing in your own self pity and arrogance.
Arrogance you say? who me? yes you! By pasting your own beliefs and feelings on others using terms such as 'your love will turn to hate', you arrogantly assume that what YOU have experienced is what others will be doing also. Not only arrogant but illogical as many times other people do not respond as you do.
quit wallowing in your pity party and tossing your obvious hurts and hatred out there and expecting others to salute you for your high horse tone about human freedom and progress. grow some flowers in that manure. tough love is true love and I'm being tough on you with the intention that smacking you upside the head might just get your attention enough for you to realize that going numb isn't going to heal your pain.
I've experienced very painful losses and would have welcomed numbness at some points. But life when numb means no warmth, no spice, no flavor, no touch, it's frigging empty! If offered freedom from pain with the price being numb to joy, I'd refuse. I know that the possibility of joy, laughter, life and love means a risk of being hurt, tasting bitter and tears. If you don't bet, you can't win. quit acting like a loser!
Grow up! sometimes life hurts! be grateful for being alive, having a computer to write this crap on, electrical power to be online with, food, a bed, water and money. You're living in North America, educated and with enough resources to have the spare time and money to be on the net sniveling about how love hurts and logic will set us free. Pure manure. You ungrateful jerk, how many people on the planet don't have even a tiny fraction of all you have? how many people would love to be in your shoes and joyfully risk a broken heart to have what you have? at this point I don't think you've been hurt enough to appreciate what you have!
Most of the greatest atrocities humankind has committed were due to someone's 'logic'. Let's get rid of mentally disturbed or deficient people including gays or some ethnic group to improve the world. We can save stockholders money by paying off owners of pinto cars with unsafe gas tanks instead of recalling them.
for all that you are touting logic, your own reasoning is very illogical. I don't have time at the moment to go through the types of arguments you are offering as evidence to rebut them. But I doubt you ever won points in a debate class.
Not one person whose responded to you likes your ideas. So what do they know that you don't know? instead of limiting yourself with your own painful, cold and illogical logic, try being curious--a logical emotion, about what they know that makes it all worthwhile.
now with compassionate love to you, I wish you the best but will stomp on your toes and flawed arguments as needed until you stop sniveling and start acting grateful for all you do have. with a glass full of life except for one swallow, your moaning about how love hurts. go to some third world country and moan about how bad your life is if you still can while comparing it to those with so little who still love so much. | |
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