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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/17/2008 10:48:00 PM | | Yes is yes an no is no. Anyone forcing themselves on another ,under any circumstances,is a definite no no.ITS RAPE/NO EXCEPTIONS>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/17/2008 11:48:33 PM | | Has any of you ever been robbed?Had your personal stuff gone through an spued all over the place?How did that make you feel?Slightly violated perhaps?Can you actually remember that feeling? That feeling,is just a very small taste of what an actual victim of rape feels!!!!!!!!! So discuss by all means but before you start listing exceptions ,please spare a thought for the actual victims. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/18/2008 3:00:51 AM | | is rape possible in a marriage ? ,, yes and is a form of abuse often used by an abusive partner to further humiliate there spouse . As has been said rape has nothing to do with sex , and everything to do with power..And within a marriage the feelings of being violated are compunded by the fact that the rapist is also someone that is in a position of trust . | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/18/2008 3:58:04 AM | to annonimiss:
Justifying raping a woman that probably loves, trusts, and married you with the idea you'd be partners for life is sickening, even more so that you can justify and excuse it because "it was her fault" because she no longer put out, you wanted sex, you were sexually frustrated, and now drunk, your inhibitions removed and your sense of entitlement going strong you just ignore her right to say "not tonight, i'm not in the mood" and replace it with "i'm going to **** you whether you want to or not...how do you like dem apples?"...and then proceed to do so. Women fear being raped by strangers and they usually operate with the assumption that they will be safe in their own homes, how do you think she feels getting raped by someone who supposedly loves her and whom she trusts?
You can't rape your own hand buddy. Why don't you try beating off next time you're sexually frustrated instead of violating and betraying the trust of someone who's committed their life to you?
And P.S. - your opinion that that isn't rape and that he doesn't deserve to be called a rapist is disturbing. His wife didn't deserve to be a rape victim, but lo and behold, through no fault or actions of her own, she is one now. Especially insulting to her considering she probably didn't plan on being one that night. But I suppose there's some people who can justify blaming it on her by saying "she stayed married to the guy, there must have been signs, was she drinking too, she was in his vicinity and residence so it must have been her fault, was she dressed slutty, did she kiss him goodnight before she rolled over to go to sleep, she's married to him so she must be his property that he can do with what he will, etc.
Try using that argument of being sexually frustrated and getting drunk, then ****ing your teenage daughter. Rape is rape. It doesn't matter how holier than thou you are, even priests rape young Catholic boys. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/18/2008 5:50:20 AM | Oh yeah...
And just because a person has a million good qualities - good faithful husband, good provider, goes to church every Sunday, mows his neighbor's lawn, volunteers for local charities, helps his kids with their homework, whatever....all those good points don't erase the cold, hard fact that he stuck his penis in a woman that didn't want him to and told him no. Would he have the same attitude if his bigger, stronger wife came home drunk and sexually frustrated and proceeded to rape him dry anally with a dildo while he struggled and told her "NO". Maybe if he cried a little, she'd stop. Where did his sweet wife go, and who is this selfish monster on top of him? Loving slap on the ass when she's done, "Go to sleep Hon, we're going Christmas shopping for the kids tomorrow"... | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/18/2008 8:06:37 AM | yummycarmen2 ... "she would no longer put out"/ "raped by someone who supposedly loves her and whom she trusts" /"betraying the trust of someone who's committed their life to you". Perhaps you are not familiar with women who play games and use sex as nothing but a weapon against their husbands? As a punishment, as a reward, to get what they want ... some even hold out in hopes that he will cheat. Never underestimate the power women hold over the "men they love"... or who love them.
Yes, I am defending a man who "rapes" his wife in the GIVEN SCENERIO .... yes, he should not force himself on his wife , but .... does the wife always give him options?? Yes, it would be alot easier if these sexually frustrated men had affairs or payed a prostitute for sex, but some men don't want to have sex outside of their marriage .. for some reason they choose to honor their end of their vows.....
Quite frankly, it is my opinion that if a woman chooses to "cut a husband off" sex, she should end the marriage at the same time. What right does she have to reap all the benefits from the marriage ... to lay beside him every night ... to expect him to be faithful ... and expect it to be acceptable to push him away- night after night after night? If she does not love her man, or is not committed enough to him to understand that he has needs too ... she should leave the marriage.... before he gets to the point where he has to "take" sex...
It is the man/men in the given scenerio (or similar scenerios) that I am defending. A sexually frustrated man who has his wife laying in bed beside him ... is NOT the same monster who jumps out of a bush and rapes a teenaged girl. He is not the monster who breaks into your house at night and rapes you by knifepoint. He is not the uncle who snuck into your room late at night. and so on , and so on... | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/18/2008 12:53:33 PM |
Yes, I am defending a man who "rapes" his wife in the GIVEN SCENERIO .... yes, he should not force himself on his wife , but .... does the wife always give him options?? Yes, it would be alot easier if these sexually frustrated men had affairs or payed a prostitute for sex, but some men don't want to have sex outside of their marriage .. for some reason they choose to honor their end of their vows.....
Actually, in the GIVEN SCENARIO it's still wrong. Rape is not a tool to be used to bring your wife back into line.
If the relationship is no longer satisfying, then you leave it. Rape is an act of violence, not love.
I notice no where in the GIVEN SCENARIO is there any thought as WHY the owman was withholding sex. She might have health issues, psychological issues... any number of reasons up to and including that the man was not giving her what she wanted...
By advocating rape as a way to get sex which one may feel one is entitled to, then consider this.
If you at one time bought your wife gifts, but stopped buying them, would you feel it was ok for her to physically assault you, and take your money without asking and spend it on herself? Essentially, albeit without the moral repugnance, it's the same thing...
It is the man/men in the given scenerio (or similar scenerios) that I am defending. A sexually frustrated man who has his wife laying in bed beside him ... is NOT the same monster who jumps out of a bush and rapes a teenaged girl. He is not the monster who breaks into your house at night and rapes you by knifepoint. He is not the uncle who snuck into your room late at night. and so on , and so on...
But as soon as he rapes his wife, he becomes that person...
If you are sexually frustrated to the point that you cannot A: manually take care of the problem yourself, and B: need to rape someone you love to solve that issue, then you are in serious need of professional counselling and psychological help.
Rape is never justified for any reason. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/18/2008 12:55:10 PM |
she should leave the marriage.... before he gets to the point where he has to "take" sex
Equally, HE should leave the marriage. Before he becomes a criminal. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/18/2008 1:06:56 PM | quote "Can rape happen in a relationship, yes it can, and it isn't a pleasant or pretty experience. It may not seem as violent, or emotionally damaging then a stranger rape, but it does cause emotional damage."
I think it is more emotionally damageing than stranger rape. There was no prior emotional connection with the stanger. When someone who claims to love you rapes it is devasting. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/18/2008 10:24:57 PM | to annonimiss:
" Perhaps you are not familiar with women who play games and use sex as nothing but a weapon against their husbands? As a punishment, as a reward, to get what they want ... some even hold out in hopes that he will cheat. Never underestimate the power women hold over the "men they love"... or who love them."
Perhaps you are not familiar with the fact that I do know that some women are like that. Regardless, they do not deserve to be raped for their bad behavior and the fact that you justify it is incredibly disturbing. And I would reckon to guess if a woman is offering sex (especially when the attraction is mutual and the green light is on) most men would enjoy the experience and not give one rat's ass that they were being manipulated. Not when "who's your daddy" is the only sentence they can put together.
If a man needs to get laid that bad and is that unhappy in his marriage, I'm going to reckon a guess that MOST men would either cheat or terminate the relationship and seek another that IS sexually fulfilling, NOT become rapists. And P.S. - if a man has become THAT much of a p****y in a relationship that he is unable to establish and maintain assertive and open lines of communication with the woman he loves, then he SERIOUSLY needs to re-evaluate his priorities to work towards achieving a healthier state of mind, instead of passively aggressively building up his resentment until all rational thought of why rape is wrong disappears and he is able to justify becoming a criminal by making it her fault. Blaming someone else for your wrongdoing, doesn't actually make it their fault. Your own perception is just as culpable of being flawed or inaccurate. For example, just because I THINK chocolate cake is good, doesn't necessarily mean that it IS good.
The fact that you place all the responsibility on the woman to end the relationship or make sure she satisfies her husband's needs at the expense of her own, only illustrates that your thinking is seriously flawed in that you believe everything is on the woman, and that the man is responsible for nothing.
And yes, the second the husband rapes his wife, is the very same second he is the rapist in the bushes, the date rapist spiking a drink, the bully that pressures and pressures and pressures for sex until no more resistance is offered.
When you take something that is not freely given, you are stealing from that person. Theft is a criminal act. It amazes me that when it comes to theft, it's pretty clearcut to the general population, but when it comes to rape, the level of ignorance and sheer lack of knowledge or understanding is astounding. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/18/2008 10:53:45 PM | | I wish I could tell you more indepth the legalities on this. I know that rape is rape whether you are in a relationship or not and the law sees it as that also. I don't know if this is the same everywhere but even tickling someone when they do not want to be tickled can be tried as a form of abuse because the recipient did not want thier body touched, and the other person continues to touch them. (There is something I want to write but won't here because its pretty crude but funny to me, message me if you are interested in knowing what it is!) | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/18/2008 10:55:37 PM | ^^^ Oh, BRAVO (post 290)! So well said...and so sad that it even had to be explained.
--Ms. Flis | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 8:34:59 AM |
they do not deserve to be raped for their bad behavior and the fact that you justify it is incredibly disturbing.
What's even more disturbing to me is that a FEMALE poster thinks this? I went and checked the profile to be sure, because my first inclination waas to think it was a guy..I was very surprised when it turned out to be a woman...
While it isn't right for women to manipulate using sex...it is even more not right to hurt them as a way to punish them? Regardless of gender, hurting people to punish them is just plain wrong IMO...there are adult ways to handle it, like other posters have said... | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 8:41:06 AM |
to annonimiss:
" Perhaps you are not familiar with women who play games and use sex as nothing but a weapon against their husbands? As a punishment, as a reward, to get what they want ... some even hold out in hopes that he will cheat. Never underestimate the power women hold over the "men they love"... or who love them."
Perhaps you are not familiar with the fact that I do know that some women are like that. Regardless, they do not deserve to be raped for their bad behavior
Quite right. Rape is a crime, and it's wrong. No one deserves to be raped.
On the other hand, those women referred to, who use sex as a weapon, may deserve to be cheated on or abandoned, neither of which is a crime. Such women only have "power" over your sex life, so long as you allow it. The antidote isn't rape. It's equalizing the power balance, with a subtle understanding that "you don't have to do anything you don't want to, but if you consistently say "no", there are plenty of others out there in the world, some of whom will say "yes"." | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 8:57:47 AM | | They *deserve* to be cheated on and abandoned? How about marriage counseling or a parting of the ways where everyone keeps their dignity intact? | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 9:10:54 AM |
They *deserve* to be cheated on and abandoned? How about marriage counseling or a parting of the ways where everyone keeps their dignity intact?
Sorry girl, but "marriage counseling" has a sole purpose: To convince him that he should shut up and do as she tells him. Thanks but no, thanks.
Perhaps they don't deserve cheating, but definitely they deserve to be abandoned. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 9:24:20 AM | How about marriage counseling or a parting of the ways where everyone keeps their dignity intact?
Girldiver, I was making a point in response to someone who bemoaned the situation where a woman is "controlling" a man through sex, and my point was, that rape is not an option, but "cheating" or "abandonment", if one felt he needed to equalize the power balance, were options that aren't crimes.
I'm not "recommending" those, although "abandonment" really is just leaving the relationship, which is one of the options you suggested.
For me, a big part of my desire is her reciprocal desire, and if that's not there, I don't want it either. And, without mutual desire in a relationship, what's the point?
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 9:47:44 AM | Well, yummycarmen ... maybe it's a good thing you don't know that some women are like that. If you did, and knew quite a few personally ... and knew a few good men that are treated like "begging dogs"...while they go on day to day working hard to provide their wives and children with the highest quality of life, maybe you could understand where I get my perspective from.
Yes, most men will find sex elsewhere, but there are some who won't. Maybe out of love, dedication, honor, ... or fear... fear that their dear wife will use infidelity to crucify him and take his kids away from him. Likewise for the man ending the marriage... as most men know how the game is played in courts... and the scorn of some women.
In my flawed way of thinking, marriage comes with an expectation on both parts that there WILL be sexual relations (unless medical factors come into play). Sexuality is a huge part of the attraction and in the process of "sealing the deal" ... how is it right that one party can decide sex is no longer necessary?
I know my opinion is very unpopular, and that's fine. I am not saying I necessarily think its okay for a man to "take sex" from his wife, but I am more understanding of why some might, and would never label or prosecute him/them the same as your average "rapist". I may be a female, but even I think females can greatly misuse their sexual powers ... which makes it a little foggier to understand who the victim actually is in some situations.
We all base our opinions and beliefs on our impressions, upbringing, expericence, and observations throughout our lives....and that does not make anyone "right" or "wrong"... it's all about opinions. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 11:16:00 AM | A man and a woman marry ... and have an active sex life. Later, the woman is less and less frequently "in the mood". At a point in the relationship, she cuts him off almost entirely ... but enjoys all the other benefits of being this man's wife. The man does not cheat, and gets very sexually frustrated. One night he has one drink too many and gets aggressive and forces himself on his wife.
The man in your little story is a rapist, if he goes to the bar picks up a woman and has sex he is a cheat. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 11:29:47 AM | Both the rapist and the prude are in the wrong
Just another reason why you shouldn't get married. No sex and there goes your money to boot. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 5:42:10 PM | No, eclipse ... that is different. Divorce is clean and simple in a case like that ... there are no children to be used as pawns, or to "hold" them together for that matter. The man (or woman) can easily leave.
I find it quite fascinating to find out how many women seem to think it's perfectly okay to force a man to live in a sexless marriage, and yet expect him to be faithful to her. Now I understand better why so many married men cheat like they do. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 5:50:52 PM | ^^^ Force him? You mean as in hold him down and make him submit even though he's said no? You seem to define "force" a lot differently than most folks...
If either partner is forcing the other to do something, that's sure not MY idea of a good marriage.
--Ms. Flis | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 5:52:58 PM | Re: Post #302, and #299
If a couple is childless, after some "years", and sex is problematical, due to her lack of interest, I "don't get it", why a man would stay in the marriage. Vice versa, really.
There are lots of "others" out there, and for me, sexuality is fundamental to the purpose of a realtionship.
Where it does get complex is when there are children. Every study shows that children do much better with two parents, rather than one. So, for those who place their childrens' best interests ahead of their personal wants, there is a feeling of being "stuck", if a marriage is sexually dysfunctional.
Raping someone is never an option, but it's what is the most frequent cause of infidelity. A man, or woman, wanting to have a sex life, but believing it to be best for the children, to keep the family intact, while the children are growing up. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 6:27:51 PM | Melo, and I have to ask my Gram and Gramp who have passed to forgive me for saying anything....
After my grams hysterectomy way back when. The Dr's messed her up so badly that she stopped having intimate relationships...He lived without that for 40 yrs.
In his generation his wedding vows meant through thick and thin, happiness, and bad health et al.
Why would he stay, because he was an honorable man, and didn't put his own needs above the commitment he made.
GRANTED now days those ideals are considered archaic, but that is how it was back then.
She had suffered a severe head injury in the 30's and that caused her a lot of problems. She was also treated with electric shock multiple times, and that diminished her mental capacity.
As a child I seen her accuse him MANY times of cheating with the neighbor... The neighbor was happily married and would not cheat on her husband. And yes I was a child, but my grandfather lived with integrity and belief in his vows.
I personally don't know how he could stand it, because I was married to someone that had an extremely low sex drive, among other issues, I finally divorced after 9 yrs of blaming myself.
Our kids a lot better that we divorced because we were not a happy couple, he didn't like having to actually be a husband and partner, but liked being treated like a king. One the other end I got tired of being a servant, and felt I would do better finding someone that was more compatible with me.
for me, sexuality is fundamental to the purpose of a realtionship.
Some people don't put such a premium on sex in their relationship, thus they are willing to forgo it for what other great qualities they have.
Remember to each their own. You feel the way you do... I personally did the same thing... Others commit for life, and have a thought process they are to marry for life, or at least until the kids get out of the house.
People do other things to make their life feel less stuck and that for some men and women is cheating. Personally I couldn't go there, so I divorced... It was the best thing I did for all of us, and we still have a very good friendship; something that never dissolved after the divorce.. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 6:37:53 PM | Re: Post #305
NextThyme, I have admitted that I "failed" or was morally "weak" or self indulgent in choosing to get divorced after 20 years, the last 10 of which were entirely asexual. In an earlier era, where divorce wasn't so easy, and so little stigmatized, perhaps I would have lived without sex, or perhaps I would have had affairs. I'm not sure.
In any case, I'm not "proud" of choosing to divorce. I do know that "forcing" sex never entered my mind. If one chooses to "stay" in a marriage for "the kids", it can and often is a viable choice. My ex and I were "friends", were cooperative, and were partners as parents and "roommates". It just was sexually dysfunctional.
While it was primarily me not being interested, because I was no longer attracted, I did feel sexually "frustrated", but never to a point that it would have resulted in violence. That IS the point. Rape in a marriage is violent act, the ultimate extension of "wife beating", and it should never be acceptable.
However, when a marriage becomes sexually dysfunctional, for whatever reason, no one should be "surprised" if infidelity results. That doesn't make it "right", but it happens. | |
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