|
|
|
|
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 6:44:44 PM | to annonimiss:
You are operating under the assumption that we live in a world that's fair...a world where marriages never change, people don't get busy and tired and have less time or desire for sex (or a myriad of other reasons why she might not be in the mood anymore). Guess what? The world is not fair, and things change all the time. That's life. That's also no justification for raping his wife just because she enjoys the benefits of married lifestyle living. Whether she's good, bad, selfish, exhausted, unwell, whatever, is absolutely no matter in this scenario. Maybe she's not attracted to him anymore because he got old, fat, bald, and his breath smells like farts. It doesn't matter, he could say the same thing about her. Still no reason to force her to have unwanted sex.
Life is about making choices. By staying in the marriage and begging for sex, the man is making a choice. The woman is making a choice to say no. The man, when making the choice to rape her is taking away her choice....which is a control issue. Control issues and abuse issues are very closely tied together. Are you advocating abuse in relationships then too? Are you saying that since she no longer puts out, it's okay if he slaps her around a bit then too? Maybe a push down the stairs? After all, he's a poor victim - he's a begging dog that can't get sex from his wife anymore, and he's horny and resentful so he's going to hurt his wife to soothe his own wounded ego. I find it hard to believe that you are a woman, unless you are so gullible and have been so brainwashed by the venting males in your life that you believe half the garbage that spews out of their mouths. | |
|
| |
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 7:09:44 PM |
I find it hard to believe that you are a woman, unless you are so gullible and have been so brainwashed by the venting males in your life that you believe half the garbage that spews out of their mouths
Remember, not all men are like that. It's really only a few dysfunctional ones that advocate rape. Some people simply do not have the intelligence to perceive the world through sane eyes... Yet, they fear knowledge, for knowledge is power... There is very little difference between ignorant fundamentalists, persecuting and abusing women in foreign countries, and some men. Yet, the same men would be the first to deny it and still, they fear smart enlightened women.
Frequently, and unfortunately, ignorance often has the loudest voice.... | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 7:10:57 PM |
If thats true why do you seek out younger women knowing that they feel about you the same way you felt about her.
I don't, and haven't, made first contact with younger women. When I've been unattached and looking, my first contacts have been with women over 45. The relationships that I've had with much younger women, were in cases where they made the first contact. Hard as it may be for some women to accept, there is a percentage of much younger women, who are attracted to older men, for a variety of reasons.
I would never try to "sell" myself to a much younger women. The ones who aren't "into" older men, would feel creeped out, and it would be an unpleasant contact. So, the 3 relatioships I've had with women more than 20 years younger, it was a result of the woman making first contact. The woman with whom I'm involved now is 31, and has been in and out of my life for 4 years, and she has never seemed to "feel about me, as I did about my ex wife". | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 7:34:22 PM | Hard as it may be for some women to accept, there is a percentage of much younger women, who are attracted to older men, for a variety of reasons.
I agree for a variety of reasons none of which have anything to do with sexual attraction....deal with the fact women view men much in the same way men view women....If you need to tell yourself she is sexually attracted than do so.
 | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 8:47:10 PM | | No means no. A decent man should respect the person he's with. Why should you force yourself on a woman? If the timing is right then you both will know. | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 10:39:01 PM | WOW annonimiss that is some really twisted logic.
Quite frankly, it is my opinion that if a woman chooses to "cut a husband off" sex, she should end the marriage at the same time. What right does she have to reap all the benefits from the marriage ... to lay beside him every night ... to expect him to be faithful ... and expect it to be acceptable to push him away- night after night after night? If she does not love her man, or is not committed enough to him to understand that he has needs too ... she should leave the marriage.... before he gets to the point where he has to "take" sex...[/quote ] WHo is to say she isn't working, providing just as much income, keeps up the house, kids, and takes care of all the things needed to run a house hold... That is NOT of any value to you? Perhaps she is drug out tired, has reached menopause and doesn't have the hormonal levels it takes to have a libido. Does that NOT count for anything in your line of thinking. Or is it just about what the man wants and needs, and she better look out and watch herself, because if he's drunk, he can abuse her as he wishes, because he is being faithful  I have been sexually assaulted by someone I trusted, and was getting married to... Let me tell you, I was the bread winner, had the house, all the furnishings, and a job that payed extremely well... He decided I was putting out because he was horny. Didn't matter I had a kidney stone, and that I was working at the same time... Pissing blood, and hurting beyond belief. Yeah he got away with it, then flipped the script and didn't have a sex drive. I stayed for 9 yrs then said forget this crap, I am to young to put up with this. There are reasons people cut off sex to their partner... My ex just didn't have the drive, and refused to see a DR to improve his LOW testosteron levels. Other times is because the ol goat sucks so badly, she just doesn't want to be pawed by him, because it is all about him getting his rocks off, and she is just a sperm receptical... NO I am NOT a bitter woman, and am in a very good relationship. We communicate our needs, and compromise when things are rocky. When I hit full menopause and don't feel like sex, I will make sure to get myself to the endocrinologist to level me out. However my partner understands that things happen, and does what he can to make it better. He would NEVER use the excuse he was frustrated and DRUNK and couldn't control himself. It is amazing to think a man would think that only women benefit from marriage... That is just sooooo unreal... Sad to think that all the other things women do being a wife is of no value... Guess it explains a lot why some men are on dating sites, and bitter towards women..  | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 10:56:53 PM |
I find it quite fascinating to find out how many women seem to think it's perfectly okay to force a man to live in a sexless marriage, and yet expect him to be faithful to her.
I don't know what "how many women" you are speaking about....but, I, personally never forced a man to stay in a sexless marriage, ( my marriage wasn't sexless) nor did I ever justify it..and I don't remember too many women on this thread saying any such thing either...you can't force a man to stay, and if you could somehow, that would be just as bad as him forcing himself on you...you evidently subscribe to the erroneous belief that all women withhold sex, or every one that might is obviously doing it just to torture her poor husband..talk to a lot of married men looking for sex on the side do you? Or divorced men who blame it all on their exes....Do you believe everything a man tells you? Or, are you one of the women who volunteer to put them out of their misery?
I can't believe you think this is the norm....one of the things about the POF forums....it does seem to bring a lot of the extremists on any particular issue out...
Regardless....no justification for forcing yourself on someone...period...like I tell all the married men who hit on me...either get a divorce or fix the problem... | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/19/2008 11:06:24 PM | | The biggest obstacle facing women raped by their husbands or boyfriends....is getting the police to take it as seriously as if it were some guy breaking into your bedroom with a knife.....yet its just as scary and leaves many of the same emotional scars....and has nothing to do with sex....its about power and control. | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/20/2008 1:14:10 AM | Just to be sure, I went back and read all my posts on this subject. Not once did I say it's PERFECTLY OKAY for a man to rape his wife ... instead, I said:
-"Yes, he should not force himself on his wife"
-"I am not saying I necessarily think it's okay to "take sex" from his wife"
-... and that IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, I do not think a married man is deserving of actual rape charges & the labeling of a "rapist".
A few of your quotes....
-"Force him?" (to stay in a sexless marriage)
-"By staying in the marriage and begging for sex, the man in making a choice".
Well, for men that know they will lose pretty much everything if they leave ... their children especially ... there is no "choice". Yes, it would be better for these men to have affairs or rent prostitutes ... than to get to the point of "taking sex" from their wives ... but some won't for various reasons (fear likely being the strongest reason).
""you can't force a man to stay and if you could somehow, that would be just as bad as him forcing himself on you"" hmmmm... interesting statement ...
Zangie .... if you carefully read the first and last paragraphs of message #298, you will see where I get my opinion from. Yes, I have heard male complaints for the last 30 years, but alot of it is also direct ... from the "horses' mouth" ... so to speak. I've heard enough women discuss and laugh at how they abuse their sexual powers with their husbands, and it can be "disturbing". Also ...when you have men you care for "caught" in the tangled web, you can empathize/sympathize with their situations moreso. | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/20/2008 5:21:57 AM | annonimiss:
2 separate issues - feeling sorry for a man who is unhappy in his sexless marriage, and raping his wife. Be careful not to extend your compassion to include MURDERING A WOMAN'S SOUL AND CAUSING HER SO MUCH GRIEF AND ANGUISH THAT MAY LAST INDEFINITELY, OR WORSE, CAUSE SEVERE PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS LIKE THE DEVELOPMENT OF THINGS LIKE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER, WHICH SHE IS ALSO STUCK WITH THE ADDITIONAL FINANCIAL DRAIN OF YEARS AND YEARS OF THERAPY THAT MAY OR MAY NOT EVEN WORK FOR HER, THAT IS, IF SHE CAN ACTUALLY GET A THERAPIST CONSIDERING IT IS SO HIGHLY STIGMATIZED IN THE MENTAL HEALTH COMMUNITY THAT MOST THERAPISTS DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH SOMEONE SUFFERING FROM IT BECAUSE THEY ARE SO TREATMENT RESISTANT AND FRUSTRATING TO DEAL WITH AND BURN OUT SO MANY THERAPISTS AND OFTEN HAVE THERAPISTS TRANSFER THEIR OWN NEGATIVE FRUSTRATIONS BACK ON THE SUFFERING CLIENT, WHOM THEY CONSIDER MANIPULATIVE- all because somebody else decided their right to GET sex was greater than her right to DECLINE.
Your logic is SEVERELY flawed. There are NEVER any exceptions - rape is rape, and a rapist is a rapist. By saying that "IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES" rape is okay, I can equate that with you defending a "nice, long-suffering" pedophile on the same logic "Sometimes sex with kids is OKAY because you treat them really nice and they leave smiling, as opposed to those TERRIBLE pedophiles that rape children and they leave crying" ---- SEVERELY flawed logic.
And your little comment "Well, for men that know they will lose pretty much everything if they leave ... their children especially ... there is no "choice". Yes, it would be better for these men to have affairs or rent prostitutes ... than to get to the point of "taking sex" from their wives ... but some won't for various reasons (fear likely being the strongest reason)" is COMPLETELY without reason, in my opinion, since you felt you had to share yours. That scumbag has no right to make his problems her problems. Every choice you make has a consequence - who gives a shit if they lose everything - life isn't fair for anybody, and there is always a choice. Is the poor rapist husband scared that he might get an STD if he strays from his sexless marriage? OHHH, poor baby. Is he scared he'll lose his kids? STILL HIS CHOICE, WHATEVER THE OUTCOME. | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/20/2008 5:41:11 AM | | If it's nonconsensual it is a violation regardless of the relationship. | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/20/2008 5:50:34 AM | There is never any excuse within a sane society for any violence at all. Rape and any other physical violence - you're violating somebody's body, their sense of trust and safety, their self esteem and confidence. Their dignity. These are things people develop and struggle to maintain for their entire lifetime, and you can strip it all away in a few moments of your own selfishly rationalized insanity.
I can empathize to a degree that somebody is unhappy with somebody else..be it for whatever reason, whatever wants and needs you have to be content with them. Relationships have their ups and downs, their passions and their calms. Sometimes you have to wait for the wind to pick up and billow your sails again before you can move in a good direction. It happens. Be patient. If you're intelligent, and within the bounds of normalcy, you can pretty much always recreate your situation and relationship with somebody.
However you have no right to violate another person's sanctity of person and of personal choice, emotionally or physically no matter the circumstances. Some women or men might stop putting out as a punishment, but I think in most cases described, they are making a choice for themself, it doesn't have to be personal, it's not an insult to you. Marriage isnt entitlement to free sex for life. Marriage is about everything else.
So just leave. Be a man. Do the honorable thing. If rape is within the realm of your thinking...Imagine a man bigger and stronger than you overpowering you, bending you over a random object, and ramming something where it shouldn't go - how would that make you feel?
He might have the same excuses of you, celibacy by circumstance, so he created his own. That won't make YOU feel any better, will it? I didn't think it would. And any man who would force sex upon their woman is no better. | |
|
| |
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/20/2008 10:54:12 AM | ""Who gives a shit if they lose everything - life isn't fair for anyone""
Since you are not a parent, you may not be able to comprehend how hard it would be to have to leave your children ... especially in the hands of a bitter woman ... who will do her best to torment you - using your children. Or in the hands of a woman you love, but know she may actually be a danger to the children if being alone gets too stressful for her.
Rape is not rape. You cannot even begin to compare the physical and emotional pain a child experiences ... with a married woman having her husband lie beside her and get "forceful" in entering her. (Although you have certainly have thrown in all the drama and violence into the situation ... which is not what I was referring to). To even compare the two ... and all the rape cases in between ... is really "taking away" from those who have sufferred the more horrific type of rapes. All are wrong, but to compare and prosecute a married man desperate for sex with his wife with a pedophile or violent rapist takes severely flawed logic as well...in my opinion.
Seriously, you can say that if your boyfriend and his buddy raped your 5 year old daughter you would feel the same hatred and disgust for him as ... say, you'd feel for your 28 year old daughters husband, after she told you "joe" raped her last night... and that she had been denying him sex for the past 8 months? If yes is your reply to this, well, all I can say is .. "wow".
For the last time I will say that "yes, technically it is rape ... but I would not judge or prosecute the man THE SAME as I would other "rapists". I am NOT saying any married man has a "right" to "rape" his wife. | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/20/2008 11:16:07 AM |
Seriously, you can say that if your boyfriend and his buddy raped your 5 year old daughter you would feel the same hatred and disgust for him as ... say, you'd feel for your 28 year old daughters husband, after she told you "joe" raped her last night... and that she had been denying him sex for the past 8 months? If yes is your reply to this, well, all I can say is .. "wow".
For the last time I will say that "yes, technically it is rape ... but I would not judge or prosecute the man THE SAME as I would other "rapists". I am NOT saying any married man has a "right" to "rape" his wife.
This one stands out the most of a man feeling entitled to what he wants, no matter the circumstance. If there is no sex for 8 mo, she either is sick, or can't do the deed, or the marriage is seriously over, but according to you logic he is entitled to do that no matter what, even if it is rape.
joe" raped her last night... and that she had been denying him sex for the past 8 months?
Then you go on to say yes its rape, but not rape... I don't know where you live, but there are different degrees of rape, and or assault. You seem to be so worried about the label, that it doesn't matter what the act does, or is to the woman...
I say wow to the fact that you contradict yourself in the name of self entitlement.
Then you base this thought on talks you had with male friends of yours. Now really, how much do you REALLY know what goes on in their bedrooms, men are capable of over exagerating their situation, just as a woman. However forcing a person to have sex is forcing a person to have sex.
It is sick and twisted to bring up child incestious rape to compare it to...
Let's face it men get away with rape even if it is a date rape, or marital rape. So whining about how it is so unfair won't get you anywhere, because YOU are NOT on this side of the fence.
Women get denied sex too from their mates, however we just have to deal with it, because we can't throw someone stronger down, and FORCE A MAN to get an erection. | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/20/2008 11:17:13 AM | It's ALWAYS more heinous a crime when the crime is against a child. It get's rough going when you use the most radical examples. It doesn't leverage you any extra credibility to your argument, however.
Rape IS rape, on the basis it's wrong no matter the circumstance. It's always inexcusable. Even if she doesn't put out, it's not an obligation she owes her husband. He should, if he's so focused and desperate, communicate his need, with the possibility of finding it elsewhere. Hell, maybe that'll be a relief for her, having her man's greedy hands off her so often. If she doesn't want to leave you outright then and there. You always have your other options. Cheating. CL hookers. Take your pick or leave. You owe it to yourself and her, your mutual happiness. Just not at her expense. | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/20/2008 12:56:25 PM | annonimiss:
"Since you are not a parent, you may not be able to comprehend how hard it would be to have to leave your children ... especially in the hands of a bitter woman ... who will do her best to torment you - using your children. Or in the hands of a woman you love, but know she may actually be a danger to the children if being alone gets too stressful for her"...Are you for real? The proper avenue to take if the husband is THAT concerned about his kids safety and wellbeing is through child custody/welfare, not rape his wife just so he can stay married and continue to be in the home. The way you think is scary. Also, the knowledge the husband has that the wife may be a danger to their kids if too stressed out (in the husband's fXcked and flawed perception of reality) is extra sickening if the wife does, in fact, have the pre-existing burden of dealing with mental health issues that already need to be addressed. Incredibly selfish of the husband to add to that.
You say, "All are wrong, but to compare and prosecute a married man desperate for sex with his wife with a pedophile or violent rapist takes severely flawed logic as well...in my opinion"...Is my logic severely flawed? I think not...the pedophile, the violent rapist, and the wife raper all operate under the common premise of POWER, CONTROL, VIOLENCE AND VIOLATING THE PERSONAL SANCTITY OF ANOTHER PERSON'S BODY WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION, SATISFYING AND JUSTIFYING THEIR OWN NEEDS AND DEVIANT MOTIVATIONS ABOVE THAT OF THEIR VICTIMS.
Last thing you said, "I am NOT saying any married man has a "right" to "rape" his wife"...So where do you draw the criteria for rape acceptibility? If he's hot and date-worthy material for you, it's acceptable, if he's not, charge him as a criminal? Where exactly do you draw the line? Please enlighten me with the full knowledge that I still completely and utterly disagree with everything you've said up to this point.
Tell me...what are your feelings on a man visiting a nursing home to have sex with his comatose wife, bearing in mind that he does not have his wife's persmission as she's in a coma? Something tells me you could justify that too... | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/20/2008 2:40:54 PM | | in my opinion rape has no place in a real relationship. rape is a violent act and the is no love there. i would never rape the woman i love for any reason. any one that thinks that funny is not mentally fixed. i want the woman in my life to be sexy for me and to be willing to give it up, so to speek because she loves me and i love her. a man that rapes anyone is not a ral man | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/20/2008 2:47:02 PM | | Rape is caused whenever someone forces another to have sex without that person's consent. It doesn't matter if they are married or not. | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/20/2008 3:38:33 PM | | Yes it's possible. No means no and if the other continues and well force themselves on you then its rape. The fact your in a relationship or marriage doesn't matter. | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/20/2008 10:44:49 PM | Just for the record, pedophiles and child rape was brought up in message 318. I was just stupid enough to express my thoughts on it once it was mentioned.
{"Different degrees of rape" is kinda what I mean by "not labelling or prosecuting different types of "rapists" the same".}
As per typical thread, the point is lost ... trying to explain what you mean, ... constantly be attacked for having a different opinion ... having your words and meanings twisted ... people picking and choosing what they want to "hear" and respond to ... with constant "new angles" thrown in... (like a man going to a hospital and having sex with a wife in a coma?? WTF?)
I throw in the "white towel". | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/21/2008 3:24:10 AM | For me, I have way too much pride to be in the role of "supplicant", or to let a woman see me sweat, even in an established relationship. For me, the appropriate response to a woman indicating a "lack of interest' is to show an even greater lack of interest, and to indicate that it's not that difficult to find "in the world".
Rape is wrong on every level, but in addition to everything else, it is to reinforce her "power" in the relationship. I never, ever, let a woman feel that she has power or control, and attempting to rape her, is a sign of weakness.
So, to me, in addition to everything else, attempting to rape in a relationship, is a sign of weakness, so, for me, in addition to everything else, I could never let myself show that I "give a damn", if she were non-responsive sexually. | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/21/2008 4:20:12 AM | In the cases of 'forced sex' or 'sex without consent' as opposed to 'sex with violence' within a relationship I think we are talking about control here.
Presumably when a couple embark on a relationship, and especially in a marriage, they agree to honour each other bodies. In the journey they take together if one person goes back on that agreement, then they drive the relationship in a certain direction which is negative for the couple. The reasons they may have may well be valid, but to expect the other party to go without a large aspect of what makes coupledom is unreasonable in my opinion.
Severe illness aside, just saying 'no' is not good enough. This puts a pressure and an anxiety on the man to find it elsewhere, either paying for it or having an affair; or to become unwillingly celibate. All of which carry issues of damage to the exclusivity of the couple. 'No means no' carries implications on both sides. The woman is taking control by controlling his intimacy with her can hardly complain when he seeks comfort elsewhere!
I think that the pendulum has swung too far, there ARE times when women don't feel like 'thinking of England' (a Victorian term for sex) , and there are times when all we feel like we are being 'just a vessel' (the pumping away term is oh so true sometimes!) but one must look at the bigger picture - and the consequences of rejection. To give in to sex on the few occasions when you don't feel like it might not feel that good at the time but the next morning you might wake up with a delicious smile on your face and love in your heart.
It is not unheard of for 'forced sex' to happen quite a lot within a loving relationship but this is rarely discussed outside the couple. Political correctness doesn't exist inside the bedroom unless you want your marriage destroyed!
To say no - and watch him turn his back, or take his pleasure elsewhere, is going to cripple the relationship in some way - serious questions need to be asked the next morning as to your commitment to your partner. In my opinion if you have a happy and loving relationship the question of consent never even occurs in the first place anyway - in choosing to be with him exclusively he knows I am there when he wants me - isn't that what it is all about? | |
|
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/21/2008 4:27:52 AM | I think people still have misconception that rape is all about sex or lack thereof. Rape isnt about sex.. its about anger & hate, violence ,POWER & control. Yes there can be rape in a relationship & I wonder what other abuse the woman suffers at the same time thruout the course of that relationship. Many do not report it b/c they feel they will not be believed. Why do they stay? FEAR has a large role.
Dressing "inappropriately" (shorts & Tshirt) or not.. has really nothing to do with being raped. Muslim women are covered by their burkas & are raped (read the news) & then instead of being the victim, they are killed b/c of perceived "loss of honor" by their families. These women are not asking to be raped, but pay the ultimate price with their lives. This happens worldwide including here in the US.
If a woman withholds sex consistently from her partner, or vice versa, you have to wonder why? Is it a medical condition? Is it depression? (more common than you think). Are they physically unattracted to each other at this point of the relationship?
Some stay together, some dont. If sex is important in the relationship & the person repeatedly pushes their partner away whether for sex OR affection; and they refuse to get medical or psychological help; it may be best that they separate & live their own lives.
But this does not justify rape. And having read all the posts I think we have 2 topics going on here | |
|
|
| Page 13 of 14
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 |
|
Home
login 
