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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 3:33:46 PM | I find it interesting that those males who seem to want this dominant role OVER women are 50+. I've never come across this attitude on these forums, anyway, in younger men.
It's worth a thought. Is it a leftover attitude from a bygone era or is it something that belongs to the eros of a man waning in testosterone? | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 3:34:27 PM |
Msg: 74 -- take her sexually???
taking someone sexually without their consent IS rape whether in a relationship or not.
I don't expect you to understand, and quite frankly, I don't care. You and I will never meet, so what you care to accept is meaningless.
and I still don't get how one ends a relationship secretly ???
Does it really matter? Suffice it to say that it has happened to some acquaintances of mine, much to their distress, not that you could really care.
other than moving out while he's at work without telling him first.....
I would think his first clue that the relationship is over would be the fact she is gone!!
Actually, the first clue was the charge of rape. The "separation" occurred AFTER he was arrested. I am FAR more CAREFUL about trusting my life to a woman.
and........Good luck finding your perfect woman......I hope to God she doesn't exist.
Thank you for your honesty. I truly wish MORE women were like you; forward, honest, and QUICK to state dislikes. This would make MY life so MUCH easier. At least YOU are courageous enough to show me whom to avoid. Thank you again for speaking so plainly. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 3:51:04 PM |
MsMicki:
Msg: 74 -- take her sexually???
taking someone sexually without their consent IS rape whether in a relationship or not.
Starregazer:I don't expect you to understand, and quite frankly, I don't care. You and I will never meet, so what you care to accept is meaningless.
There is nothing to understand......it's the law.
and it is you that needs to accept that fact.....not me.
MsMicki: other than moving out while he's at work without telling him first.....
I would think his first clue that the relationship is over would be the fact she is gone!!
Starregazer: Actually, the first clue was the charge of rape. The "separation" occurred AFTER he was arrested. I am FAR more CAREFUL about trusting my life to a woman.
Then my guess is she was scared for her life....and couldn't leave till the jerk was arrested. Or wanted to watch him be arrested.......I know I would.
Starregazer:Thank you for your honesty. I truly wish MORE women were like you; forward, honest, and QUICK to state dislikes. This would make MY life so MUCH easier. At least YOU are courageous enough to show me whom to avoid. Thank you again for speaking so plainly.
 Like u had a chance with any of us ladies that have responded to you. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 3:56:17 PM | ^^^ I have to say that "take her sexually" isn't necessarily the same thing as rape. For instance, picture the woman holding out her arms to a lover and saying "Take me!" Or picture it with a man saying this. Either way, not generally a negative connotation.
--Ms. Flis | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 4:04:39 PM |
Msg: 81 -- Like u had a chance with any of us ladies that have responded to you.
Like I would REALLY **WANT** the opportunity of having someone unworthy of my trust to stick a knife in my back? Thank you, but NO, I'll pass. You stay honest with me and I'll stay honest with you. We find each other mutually offensive and this is well and good. At least we have the common sense to avoid each other. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 4:05:00 PM | MeloFelow ~ Are you aware that rape takes many forms? You're stating that a partner saying no to sex is a line that can never be crossed and you would leave simply for that... which is basically saying put out or I'm leaving... is coercion.
Hmmmm... sounds suspiciously like forced sex doesn't it? Let's look at the meanings of words...
Rape has a legal definition. To obscure the meaning by calling it "coercion" for each person clearly definining his/her needs in a relationship, obscures the topic.
So, simply, I would not enter into a relationship, if it were not meeting sexual needs, nor would I continue in a relationship, if sexuality were an "issue". It is not "coercion" to say that if the primary "relationship needs" are not being met, that I'd leave. It's a simple statement of expectations and needs, that the other person is free to accept or decline.
Rape is physically forcing someone to have sex against her will, or would involve criminal blackmail or drugging someone. If it's merely a mutually accepted "expectation" of fulfilling each other's sexual needs, it's not rape.
It's been well understand, and mutually accepted, in any relationship I've had, in the 8 years post divorce, that we are together, based on mutual sexual needs, and wouldn't enter a relationship, nor stay in one, if it weren't first meeting sexual needs. That's not "rape", and to equate a mutual expectation of meeting each other's mutual sexual needs with rape, minimizes the serious issue of rape. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 4:18:31 PM | No person has the right to touch another without consent!! Ever!!
I also agree with a previous poster that this is a really bad place to study such a topic. It's all here say and plagiarism which is not worthy of study. (Respectfully)
:rolleyes:
God Bless,
Scott. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 4:21:33 PM | Ain`t we got fun in this thread now! It`s brought out the creme de la creme! | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 4:24:15 PM | a little tip for every1 RAPE IS RAPE doesnt matter the circumstances it's still rape.. and the rapist deserves a severe beatdown.. ne rapists out their want 1 hit me up | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 4:26:45 PM | OK, I have to say, when StarreGazer started this whole thing, my immediate thought was "what a freakin idiot". However, he HAS a point. He's completely honest and makes no mistakes about the type of person he is. Whether we agree with his lifestyle is irrelevant, really. I have no doubt that there ARE women who have/do agree to live this way. Maybe not on this site, but surely they are out there. So, just because we like vanilla ice cream, is it right to rip on him for liking strawberry?
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not condoning the actions of what seems to be an incredibly insecure individual. However, you have to give him some credit for being blatantly honest and hiding NOTHING from potential partners. He also hasn't become abusive or lashed out at those who disagreed.
Respectfully, he's as honest as he is creepy.  | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 4:54:30 PM |
If I start quoting chapter and verse, the atheists will arrive in this thread with pitchforks and torches. Read 1 Corinthians for starters, because it actually occurs in several places, where Paul instructs very clearly that men and women are not to withold their bodies from each other.
Code For: I Was Talking Out Of My Ass and Now Have To Cover It
It was also foundational to instructions given to Catholics "back in the day" up until fairly recently.
That's interesting. I was raised Catholic and have never heard that and I used to be quite religious. I wonder what else they were withholding from me......
If you want to find specific verses, go to one of the "online bible" websites and query "marriage".
You were the one who insisted his opinion was based on liturgical law. YOU go look it up, then print it here to back yourself up. Otherwise, STFU. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 4:59:28 PM |
Rape is physically forcing someone to have sex against her will, or would involve criminal blackmail or drugging someone. This is where you are wrong.
I highly recommend you check the laws as it is considered to be illegal to intimidate in any manner to have a person perform an act which they would otherwise not become involved in.
Really MeloFelow, you are skewing the laws and meanings to meet with your own twisted sense of what is reasonable in a relationship.
If you want a slave, I would suggest you emigrate to a country where this practise is legal and stop trying to convince others that what is illegal is not only legal, it is right and moral.
Rape no matter how you try to pretty it up, is still rape... and a rapist, regardless of how they try to talk around the act, is still a rapist.
What concerns me most is that you honestly believe you are in the right... | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 4:59:51 PM |
Respectfully, he's as honest as he is creepy
I'll give ya that one!! | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 5:06:08 PM |
Forum posts are, for me, a "hobby", not "research projects".
It's amazing you have time, considering how demanding your nymphy girlfriend is.
I'm reluctant to post chapter and verse for several reasons. First, those who aren't Christians will inevitably be offended, as would I, were someone to quote the Koran.
I'm a Buddhist and I'm not offended by the quoting of any scriptural verse of any faith as long as it isn't being used as justification for the subjugation of other people.
Christian views, however, did form the basis for most customs and laws in Europe, from which our legal/cultural syster derived.
Here's where a little research comes in handy. Western civilization's customs and laws were born in Mesopotamia and ancient Rome not vague "Christian views." That's why there's a sculpture of the ancient Babylonian King Hammurabi on the wall of our Supreme Court and Capitol Building, but none of Jesus. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 5:13:36 PM |
It appears you have the upper hand.
Uh, yeah, when it concerns MY body, you bet your a$$ I've got the upper hand. Forget the courts. Any man who puts a hand on me inappropriately without my consent is gonna have it mailed back to him. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 5:27:21 PM |
Rape is physically forcing someone to have sex against her will, or would involve criminal blackmail or drugging someone. If it's merely a mutually accepted "expectation" of fulfilling each other's sexual needs, it's not rape.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. If you have a woman who must agree to service a man sexually, regarding of her feelings, because he needs bj's and she needs to make sure he doesn't abandon her and the kids. That's fulfilling each others needs, but it ain't equal, not by a long shot and THAT is what makes it coercion. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 5:36:45 PM |
Whether we agree with his lifestyle is irrelevant, really.
I think there's an important distinction to be made here. The word "lifestyle" usually implies a BDSM or Dom/sub type of scenario. Within the lifestyle, there are mutually agreed upon rules to the game they are playing. USUALLY, it's for a short period of time, like an hour or an evening or a weekend, etc. and there are always, always escapes (such as a "safe word" or hand signal) in case of physical, emotional or psychological issues or freakouts among submissives.
I don't find his forthrightness offensive. I think it's rather refreshing and enlightening. After all, it's not often you get to engage in conversation with a genuine sociopath. What really gives me the heebie-jeebies is that he is not role playing for a session. He is living it 24/7 and to such extremes that there are no safety nets or escapes. This is what ends up turning a playful "lifestyle" session into crime.
That he's whining because the law won't allow him to commit crimes is truly offensive. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 5:52:27 PM | These are the statutes concerning Rape in the State of Alabama. They are copied directly from the Code of Alabama website. The case law on these statutes runs from pp411-pp436.
Section 13A-6-61
Rape in the first degree.
(a) A person commits the crime of rape in the first degree if:
(1) He or she engages in sexual intercourse with a member of the opposite sex by forcible compulsion; or
(2) He or she engages in sexual intercourse with a member of the opposite sex who is incapable of consent by reason of being physically helpless or mentally incapacitated; or
(3) He or she, being 16 years or older, engages in sexual intercourse with a member of the opposite sex who is less than 12 years old.
(b) Rape in the first degree is a Class A felony.
(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §2310; Act 2000-726, p. 1557, §1.)
Section 13A-6-62
Rape in the second degree.
(a) A person commits the crime of rape in the second degree if:
(1) Being 16 years old or older, he or she engages in sexual intercourse with a member of the opposite sex less than 16 and more than 12 years old; provided, however, the actor is at least two years older than the member of the opposite sex.
(2) He or she engages in sexual intercourse with a member of the opposite sex who is incapable of consent by reason of being mentally defective.
(b) Rape in the second degree is a Class B felony.
(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §2311; Acts 1979, No. 79-471, p. 862, §1; Acts 1987, No. 87-607, p. 1056, §2; Act 2000-726, p. 1557, §1.)
Rape is a FORCIBLE act of sex, it IS about POWER, CONTROL and yes, SEX. It is a violation of one's rights and body...it is an abomination and should be dealt with in the HARSHEST manner possible once proven beyond a reasonable doubt and to a moral certainty.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "FORCIBLE SEDUCTION".
NO MEANS NO.... No matter what the relationship may be.
This is the FIRST, LAST and ONLY rule in this situation!!!!!
REAL MEN don't RAPE. Only weak, punkass cowards rape!!!!
'Nuf Said !!!! | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 5:56:36 PM | I highly recommend you check the laws as it is considered to be illegal to intimidate in any manner to have a person perform an act which they would otherwise not become involved in.
Really MeloFelow, you are skewing the laws and meanings to meet with your own twisted sense of what is reasonable in a relationship.
Pssst, if you tried to take someone to court, with a charge of rape, for having stated at the outset, that he expected a marriage to include, at its foundation, a full and active sex life, I doubt seriously that you'd get much traction.
It's a simple thing, really. If a relationship is not meeting both our sexual needs, then it has no raison d'etre, IMO. If sex became problematical, I'd leave the relationship. That being said, though, I would never physically force, nor intimidate. I do feel, however, that people are within their reasonable rights to leave a relationship, if it isn't meeting their needs.
I also would not enter into a relationship, prior to it being sexually satisfactory for both of us. If one chooses to leave, because the sex isn't satisfactory, I'd be hard pressed to imagine him being charged with "rape". It's just odd that some have twisted "rape" to include a man feeling that he has the right to leave a relationship, if he doesn't find it satisfactory, in terms of meeing normal human needs.
Re post #89
You were the one who insisted his opinion was based on liturgical law. YOU go look it up, then print it here to back yourself up. Otherwise, STFU.
check post #47 | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 5:58:09 PM |
Nothing "creepy" about it. It's foundational to the "marriage covenant".
I would not "force" a partner, so if she said "no", she would be physically safe . However, when one enters into marriage, both people, as part of the "covenant" surrender "self" to a greater "us", so if one, or the other, denies his/her partner, then it is a violation of the covenant.
Frankly, I can't remember ever being told "no", even in a dating relationship. I've heard, or given the response, of "a little later", now and then, but an overt, rejecting "no", not since I was 15. If it were to happen, I'd respect it, but then feel that the "covenant" had been violated, and perfectly justified in exiting the relationship. What would be the point of 'committment" in marriage, if one or the other felt that he/she was only committed to do that which he/she felt like doing, and no obligation towards his/her partner?
Sex is not the main part of a marriage. I like sex as much as the next person, but I think there are times when saying no to sex should be understandable, and really there are times that if you are asking your spouse for sex, you are a selfish jerk.
Committment in marriage does not mean having sex whenever your spouse wants it, regardless of how you feel at the time. A spouse is not violating any "covenant" because they say no to sex. Maybe the person feeling that way is breaking it as they clearly are only thinking of their own needs.
Sorry but this attitude in a man your age makes no sense at all to me. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 6:07:28 PM |
find it interesting that those males who seem to want this dominant role OVER women are 50+. I've never come across this attitude on these forums, anyway, in younger men.
It's worth a thought. Is it a leftover attitude from a bygone era or is it something that belongs to the eros of a man waning in testosterone?
No, Lil Brooker...it's just " moldy yucky leftovers" of creepy men that no-one wants.
They are like old bottom dwellers in a pond who swill anything that drops by without a care of what it is.
They will justify their actions until they die. No use arguing with them. It's all about them. Control issues. "AHA! IT'S MINE...mmwwahhhhahahahah!" | |
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tort2
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Joined: 11/21/2005
Msg: 97 | |
| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 6:12:03 PM | The real problem in a number of rape allegations is that a "she said; he said" situation arises. The sex was consensual and something happened along the way and the woman then, to get back at the guy, files a complaint.
Of course, this should not be confused with a legitimate situation where a woman has been violently forced to submit on threat of bodily injury. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 6:18:09 PM |
Sex is not the main part of a marriage.
If it's good, then sex isn't an issue, or top of mind in a marriage or relationship. If it's problematical, then it will undermine the marriage or relationship. So, whether it's the "main" part, or not, is subject to interpretation. It is, however, foundational to everything else. Without it, why would someone want it? | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 6:59:31 PM |
That being said, though, I would never physically force, nor intimidate. I do feel, however, that people are within their reasonable rights to leave a relationship, if it isn't meeting their needs. Backpeddaling a bit this time?
Try and pretty it up all you want with words like wants, desires and needs; the fact remains that the following are your words... verbatim.
I would not "force" a partner, so if she said "no", she would be physically safe . However, when one enters into marriage, both people, as part of the "covenant" surrender "self" to a greater "us", so if one, or the other, denies his/her partner, then it is a violation of the covenant. You consider not wanting sex, and you even allude to it simply being once, then you would desert your partner regardless of anything else as she is in violation of your covenant.
I call bullshit on you... and I continue to challenge you to show me the case law that would clearly outline that coersion is acceptable when in a relationship to gain sex.
Face it... we aren't a bunch of self-effacing 30 year olds that have half a brain and worship the ground you walk on... you are having this discussion with intelligent, law savvy women that are aware of the ploys of sexual deviants in getting their own way... via rape. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 7:05:40 PM | You consider not wanting sex, and you even allude to it simply being once, then you would desert your partner regardless of anything else as she is in violation of your covenant.
No backpeddling here. Absolutely, if I were in a relationship or marriage, and the sex were not satisfactory, I'd leave. How is that rape"?
Sex is the "first purpose" of a romantic relationship, IMO, and it doesn't matter how well everything else is, if that isn't functioning well.
The exception, in terms of my ethos, is when there are children involved. Their needs come first. When two people choose to create a child, there is an obligation to give them two parents to love, nurture, and provide for them.
Outside of that, though, what would be the point of a relationship, if sexuality were problematical? Who would want such a releationship, and who would continue on in one.
Recognizing that simple reality, is not "rape". To liken it to rape, is to strip the word rape of its meaning. I'm really clear about what, to me, is important in a relationship, from the outset. She doesn't "have to" do anything, other than what she wants to do, but neither do I. If a time comes that we don't want each other sexually, most of the time, and with urgency, I'd wish her well, and be out the door. No harm/no foul. How that can be twisted into "rape" is beyond me. | |
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