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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 7:18:02 PM |
" moldy yucky leftovers" of creepy men that no-one wants. LOL !! Amen to that,sister ----That's a classic...........: ) Have to wonder what some of these men would do if their partner said "no" to sex one night...................??????  | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 7:25:40 PM |
No backpeddling here. Absolutely, if I were in a relationship or marriage, and the sex were not satisfactory, I'd leave.
Oh yes you are backpedaling , Ren. You claimed that if a woman ever said "NO" to you in a request for sex, you would hear "never" and would exit that relationship. Is your ego so fragile that one "NO" equals unsatisfactory sex?
You've built an argument on someone saying "NO" (once, we presume) and have now changed it to unsatisfactory sex within a relationship. Backpedaling. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 7:33:19 PM | "what causes it?"
the same as most times i'd guess - anger, for one thing...
"is it possible in a pre-existing relationship?"
it's possible whenever someone won't stop when they're told to...
imo | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 7:35:16 PM |
Oh yes you are backpedaling , Ren. You claimed that if a woman ever said "NO" to you in a request for sex, you would hear "never" and would exit that relationship. Is your ego so fragile that one "NO" equals unsatisfactory sex?
You've built an argument on someone saying "NO" (once, we presume) and have now changed it to unsatisfactory sex within a relationship. Backpedaling.
It's really not inconsistent, Lil Brooker. In point of fact, I've never experienced a direct "no". It's always been enough, for one or the other of us, to have communicated that one of us is tired, sick, or in bad mood, to forestall it coming to that.
That being said, if one or the other thinks it's "ok" to directly "dismiss" the other with an overt "no", it's introducing a dynamic that would undermine a relationship. Once it gets "selfish", as in, all that matters is what I "feel like", rather than factoring in a partner's needs or wants, then the relationship is effectively "over". | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 10:10:20 PM |
That being said, if one or the other thinks it's "ok" to directly "dismiss" the other with an overt "no", it's introducing a dynamic that would undermine a relationship. Once it gets "selfish", as in, all that matters is what I "feel like", rather than factoring in a partner's needs or wants, then the relationship is effectively "over".
I hate to point out the obvious...but, explain to me the difference between a woman "being selfish" by not considering your sexual needs..and a man "being selfish" by not considering her emotional or physical ones? Whose needs are the priority here melo? It appears it is only selfish when acted upon you...not when you do it. IMO, it is just as selfish to not consider her feelings or needs/wants...which you are doing if you punish her in any way for not performing on demand...it is an emotional rape at the least..because, you are threatening her...and if it ever happened that she just didn't want to, for whatever reason, though you wouldn't force her, so you say...you would hurt/punish her. It becomes all about what is most important to you...is this not the pot calling the kettle black?
Being forced physically or coerced verbally or emotionally has little emotional difference in result or effect. Having experienced both...both took their toll...
Men don't rule the world anymore, and it appears some think that is a tragedy...women are no longer property or beholden to the demands of overly aggressive men who can't control their sexual urges or, more accurately...their anger...they rape because they are angry and it is the best way to hurt someone...and because they are actually afraid of the power a woman may have over them..IMO , of course...I also think that controlling people ( both men and women)...are afraid too...why they need to control...
Rape has horrible after effects that are far more damaging emotionally than physically..and there is never a justification for it...and it is even more devastating when it is someone you thought you knew and trusted...
Men who still think sex is a right, not a gift or a shared experience, or something done in love, just perpetuate the atmosphere of force if necessary, or emotional blackmail...
If it isn't voluntary...it is wrong...on all levels...
I guess it surprises me there are still men who think this way... | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 10:17:15 PM | How many of these people are out there
Obviously education wasnt part of her growing up..
like come on people..
god this is common knowledge in todays society now..
have people actally stopped thinking to realize this is totally messed up for her to be asking..
i feel sorry for this girl if she doesnt know because shes the prime target for rape..
she will put herself at harms way if she doesnt start using her head for more then a hat holder | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 10:26:00 PM | I hate to point out the obvious...but, explain to me the difference between a woman "being selfish" by not considering your sexual needs..and a man "being selfish" by not considering her emotional or physical ones? Whose needs are the priority here melo? It appears it is only selfish when acted upon you...not when you do it. IMO, it is just as selfish to not consider her feelings or needs/wants...which you are doing if you punish her in any way for not performing on demand...it is an emotional rape at the least..because, you are threatening her.
While I've been criticized for being specific in terms of my own situation, the reality is that it isn't gender specific. It can be the woman who wants sex, and the man, who must respond to her needs, despite what he might "feel like".
That being said, it doesn't really matter "why?". If two people aren't in sync, in terms of sexuality within a relationship, then what's the point of continuiing in the relationship?
A woman, or man, has every "right" to not want to have sex, and legally, his/her partner must respect that. However, if everyone stands on his/her "rights", an intimate relationship is unlikely.
In choosing to have a relationship, to some extent, we are choosing to surrender "me" to a greater "us". When in a relationship, I have accepted that I am responsible to consider her needs and wants in everything I do that will impact her. So, if she is "in the mood", and I'm not, I should try to respond, and "get in the mood".
The reality is that a relationship is a voluntary activity. No one has to be in one, and no one "owes" someone a relationship. Were I with a woman, who felt it was important to control sexuality, based on what she "felt", with no regard for me, that's fine. She'swithin her "rights". Likewise, i am witin mine to say "not thanks",and move on. It's not abusive, if I choose to leave. The simple reality is that there are a lot of women in the world, so why bog down with someone who makes sex an "issue" that divides us, rather than something that draws us closer?
Quite simply, in every relationship I"ve had, I've articulated that a satisfactory sexual relationship is first and foremost, to the existence of the relationship. If a woman finds that unacceptable, she is free to move on. If she's "in sync", then it's not an issue. Regardless, I have never physcially forced a woman to have sex. At the ame time, I've never continued on in a relationship, if there were "sexual issues". | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 10:38:01 PM |
I hate to point out the obvious...but, explain to me the difference between a woman "being selfish" by not considering your sexual needs..and a man "being selfish" by not considering her emotional or physical ones? Whose needs are the priority here melo? It appears it is only selfish when acted upon you...not when you do it. IMO, it is just as selfish to not consider her feelings or needs/wants...which you are doing if you punish her in any way for not performing on demand...it is an emotional rape at the least..because, you are threatening her...and if it ever happened that she just didn't want to, for whatever reason, though you wouldn't force her, so you say...you would hurt/punish her. It becomes all about what is most important to you...is this not the pot calling the kettle black?
Give up. He won't get it. His reply will be circular mumbo jumbo wrapped up in intellectual mumbo jumbo. If his "current" has a brain she will probably die of a tumour from banging her head against the wall. "Melo" has a history on the forums under a different name that some of us remember and his attitudes and self-confessed actions were offensive to both women and men.
He denied the wife that he speaks of from physical intimacy because she was too fat for his tastes and now he talks about breaking the covenant in marriage by refusing sex for your partner when they are in need. Sounds like blowing it out both ends to suit one's self. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 10:52:02 PM | He denied the wife that he speaks of from physical intimacy because she was too fat for his tastes and now he talks about breaking the covenant in marriage by refusing sex for your partner when they are in need. Sounds like blowing it out both ends to suit one's self.
Lil Brooker, this thread is not about me. I will readily admit that I am a flawed human being, and I have never presented that I've modeled the perfect human life.
So, yes, I lost interest in my ex wife, for reasons that I told her, when we were dating. However, I put the welfare of our children above my own desires, and stayed in the marriage, until our daughers were mostly "grown". Still, I accept, that I fell short of the standard that I had for myself, of marriage being "forever".
Now, though, the fairlure of my marriage, doesn't deny what is the basis for "relationship". I've never tried to "force" anyone sexually. However, i see no point to having a relationship, if sexuality is an issue.
Yes, I denied my ex wife sexual interest, because whe was not attractive to me. Yes, that falls short of the "Ideal" I would have for myself. So, yes, I failed. But, no, that doesn't mean that I have to acceept women who don't want/neeed the same sort of relationshp that I do. If it came down to it, I'd rather be celibate, then being in the wrong relationship. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 11:16:24 PM | It is late here, so excuse me if I missed something....
Dominant...who are you speaking of? To? About?
Ren/Melo...whoever you are this week....
Did you enjoy your vacation from the pond? I know I did. It sure was short, though. Can you go again and take creepy Starregazer guy with you? Can you both contribute to a thread w/o it becoming 'all about me and my domineering ways'? Cause we all understand that is really code for "I can only perform when I can control."
To the original post:
Yes, there can certainly be rape even between a husband and wife. And it is about anger and control, although it is not always because the one being forced has made them angry. In my case, it came about 2 years into a marriage, one that I just *knew* would be my last. I was raped while I was on pain meds and muscle relaxers for a head injury. I did say "No", telling him he was hurting me. After it was over, he apologized, and said it would not happen again. He had been looking at rape porn while I napped. He had a traumatic childhood, and so I said he was forgiven, but it had better never happen again. Of course, it did. I kicked him out, with him begging me not to....who else would take care of me? I said God would. And he has. My now-hubby is thoughtful and kind. My ex died while in China picking up a very young bride, since he had heard that they were much more willing to be dominated. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/3/2008 11:46:58 PM |
Lil Brooker, this thread is not about me.
For the entire time in our posting history, this is what you've said whenever someone takes you to task for what you have written. Unfortunately, you make many threads about YOU instead of restricting yourself to the topic, but who among us doesn't fall to this?
Through many topics your forum fellows have learned all about you because you do tend to make every thread you respond to about you. And I could get into detail here, but I won't. If you are going to sing "This thread is not about me", stop making every thread about you. Otherwise, accept the direct responses to your posts. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 12:01:40 AM | OK, I don't know when/where in this thread the notion that rape, and a person just saying "no" to having sex at a given instance were in any way the same thing. Melo, man you are confused. Rape is where a person FORCES another to have sex... that means against their will.
Coersion is a FORM of force, be it in the form of threats to do bodily harm or to reveal some "thing" that person doesn't want known. I suppose that this could be taken to the level of " if you don't have sex with me anytime I want, I will leave", that, in my opinion, is a bit of a stretch in the definition of rape, but looking at the totality of circumstances , it could be viewed as such.
I personally think if YOU ended a relationship with a woman because she had refused YOU sexually that it would be the greatest thing to ever happen to HER... YOU could do HER no bigger favor than excluding YOU from HER life.
The thread is about rape in relationships, YES, it can/does happen. It is seldom reported or prosecuted, but IMO should be to the fullest extent of the law.
The marriage vows state "to love, honor and cherish", I don't see any way rape can exist in a relationship built on these 3 principals.
Starregazer, man don't even get me started on you... all I have to say is with your attitude toward women I hope you enjoy being alone frequently, even a "sub" gets tired of being degraded ALL the time. Here's a suggestion... why not buy yourself an inflatable doll... she'll let you dominate her ALL the time and never complain, never file charges against you no matter what you do or say... just keep plenty of patches handy or an extra in the closet ( hey, think THREESOME).
I can see the women lined up for miles to avoid you. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 12:29:42 AM | Melo,
Have you ever been capable of love? Other than of yourself, I mean. Your wife bears your children (girls, you say? God Bless Them), then since she is no longer as thin and young as when you were dating, you leave her? You withhold your affection (if there ever was any on your part) and you leave her??? I can only imagine how she breathed relief when you left. Your daughters on the other hand.....what is your legacy to them? That they are only good for sex as long as they please the Master?
Melo, I Dream of Jeannie was a sitcom, not a blueprint for a relationship. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 1:31:52 AM | Gah! You drive me insane!
So, yes, I lost interest in my ex wife, for reasons that I told her, when we were dating
emphasis on *when we were dating*
Doesn't add up! So, why did you marry her? So, how did you concieve children with her? In the past, you told us that she became fat after bearing children and that's when you told her "NO" and denied her sex because she was revolting to you.
In this rape within marriage discussion, you are the one who brought up the notion that a spouse who says "NO" to her partner is destroying the covenant. It turns out that YOU are the partner who said "NO" (to your wife in need). Shame. Where were the sciptures during your marriage? Are they only relevant when you need them to be? | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 5:35:18 AM |
So, yes, I lost interest in my ex wife, for reasons that I told her, when we were dating. However, I put the welfare of our children above my own desires, and stayed in the marriage, until our daughers were mostly "grown". Still, I accept, that I fell short of the standard that I had for myself, of marriage being "forever". .
You bred?!??? You have daughters and you still talk this way about women?? I hope you didn't teach your children any of your thoughts on rape or how to treat women in general. And you did your wife a favor.
Starregazer, man don't even get me started on you... all I have to say is with your attitude toward women I hope you enjoy being alone frequently, even a "sub" gets tired of being degraded ALL the time.
You're not really buying that women freely have anything to do with him, are you? I would bet donuts to dollars that he pays subs. What I'm going to say is he is a sadist...which is not necessarily dominant. The two don't always go hand in hand. I'd also bet there are bodies buried somewhere. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 6:12:57 AM |
Melo, man you are confused. Rape is where a person FORCES another to have sex... that means against their will.
That's exactly what I've said all along.
The discussion meandered into partners saying "no", and whether the other partners would continue on, because a couple of posters said that it was "rape", if someone chose to leave a relationship, if the other said "no". In other words, if a man won't cede "control" over their sex life, and accept that sex will be when and how a woman decides, then he's a "rapist". My point in all that discussion was that there is a legal definition of rape, and that primarily means physically forcing someone to have sex against her will. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 6:40:17 AM | Rape has very little to do with sex, because it's about power and control over the victim, but many rapists force sex upon their victims to degrade and defile their bodies. When any person FORCES another person to engage in sex, after they clearly said NO - that is rape. Many rapists don't even ask-they seek out their prey and victimize them. The person whose been raped is left with not only physical scars, but the emotional scars can last a lifetime.
Yes, rape does occur in relationships whether the two parties are dating or married. It's often we hear of random rapes, but with some individuals, they believe if you are in a partnership that the notion of 'forcing' your partner to have sex can't be rape because they are a couple. Saddly, some people even believe that the word 'NO' actually means maybe.
I'm sorry, but while married, if my spouse didn't understand that I didn't desire to have sexual intercourse with him and thought because I said no I was violating some 'convenant' of our marital vows I would have told him to shove off and don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!! Sexual intercourse should always be consensual! If a person says no--whether they are single or not should be respected. Saddly, for some people, regardless of gender, the desire to manipulate and control their partners using sex supercedes common decency and respect for the other person. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 6:59:20 AM |
I'm sorry, but while married, if my spouse didn't understand that I didn't desire to have sexual intercourse with him and thought because I said no I was violating some 'convenant' of our marital vows I would have told him to shove off and don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!!
Fine, well, and good. However, him believing that you have "violated" the marriage covenant does not constitute rape. If he left the marriage as a result, it's not rape. If he felt it justified him having an affair, he'd be "wrong", but not a rapist.
That's how the whole off topic discussion came into the thread in the first place. Rape is rape, and it's a crime. No matter what one's views or beliefs, no one has a right to physically force a partner to have sex.
How one responds to being told "no", so long as it isn't physically forcing her, is a different topic, and people can have different views of what their rights and obligations in a marriage are, but so long as no one is physically forced, it is NOT rape. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 7:12:41 AM | Melo-
I agree that rape is a crime, but what I also think is a crime is that some men/women will use other tactics, including force, to make their partners submit to acts of sex against their wishes all in the name of marriage. It becomes a rape of a person's dignity to be frank, and it's deplorable. For any person to believe that another person is required to perform sex because of a marital vow is pretty assinine and so too, is the notion that saying 'no' is reason enough to say bye bye.
Of course, that is just my opinion on the matter, and I'm not one for pissing contests to prove my point is more valid than anothers. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 7:21:23 AM |
I agree that rape is a crime, but what I also think is a crime is that some men/women will use other tactics, including force, to make their partners submit to acts of sex against their wishes all in the name of marriage. It becomes a rape of a person's dignity to be frank, and it's deplorable. For any person to believe that another person is required to perform sex because of a marital vow is pretty assinine and so too, is the notion that saying 'no' is reason enough to say bye bye.
When others complain that the thread has gotten off topic, IMO, it's that when someone posts, as you just did, that it's "also a crime" and a "rape of someone's dignity" for someone to have an attitude about sex that differs from yours. No doubt, having disparate views would make for a poor relationship, but that's not the point.
IMO, there is a very clear, legal distinction between physically forcing someone to have sex, vs. someone feeling "wronged" and verbalizing that, if his partner refuses him. It's not the crime of rape for someone to leave the relationship, if he finds the sex life unsatisfactory. It's not the crime of rape for someone to withdraw his affection, caring, and concern.
Those things might be "wrong", and one might view the guy a "jerk", as many view me for merely mentioning a philosophical/theological view that they don't like, but having views you don't like, or leaving a relationship, aren't crimes. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 7:33:43 AM | Actually, NotsoMellofellow, I am on topic, because the OP also inquired what are some of the reasons rape occurs in relationships. When a couple is in a relationship sex certainly is one aspect of it, but when one person feels the other is required to perform sex at their request and fails to do so---some individuals begin to manipulate their partner to succumb to their wishes---and sometimes that is elevated to more forcible gestures, until finally they will take what they want. The crime in that is that most people feel a sense of shame or even a duty to protect the person who claims to love them, but uses their body as they see fit.
Marriage shouldn't be about ownership, but rather a balanced partnership, but clearly in marriages that have an unequal balance of POWER---rapes occur and generally are never reported.
When others complain that the thread has gotten off topic, IMO, it's that when someone posts, as you just did, that it's "also a crime" and a "rape of someone's dignity" for someone to have an attitude about sex that differs from yours. No doubt, having disparate views would make for a poor relationship, but that's not the point.
Pot meet Kettle^^^^
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 7:44:22 AM | | i just read your profile whats up with you.you are going to scare tons of men away.remember every women wants a bradd pitt but they do not look like angy jolie. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 8:06:22 AM | How does the idea of constantly being told "no" equate? Does it drive someone to rape? Or do they avoid that by going to someone else? Either way, their basic "needs" are ignored by their partner of choice. Not good for a relationship, is it?
It doesn't matter if some view it as a basic need or even view it as selfish. It is a driving force and some people want to "go with the flow" rather than "taking control of themselveS" because it is far easier to allow your "natural function" to have its way rather than trying to "control their basic urges".
If "no means no", then expect those urges to be met somewhere else and don't be whining about "cheaters", etc. Masturbation is not an answer...only a stop-gap measure that does not focus on the true issues of human sexuality. | |
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| rape in a relationship?
Posted: 12/4/2008 9:26:25 AM | In ANY relationship, the man has free access to the woman ANY time he chooses. This free access ENDS, of course, when the relationship ITSELF has ended. The problem occurs when the WOMAN **FAILS** to inform the MAN that the relationship has ENDED.
Ummm...Did someone actually say this??? I missed it.
The problem occurs when the WOMAN **FAILS** to inform the MAN that the relationship has ENDED.
Ummm...The problem occurs when some inhumane, despicable notion such as this becomes current and valid in someones Cortex!!
I am speechless on that note!  | |
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