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Posted: 12/6/2008 12:29:14 PM | NGAT73:
oh the responses that will follow in regards to your posting. Im going to sit back and read.  | |
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ngat73
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Joined: 6/10/2007
Msg: 77 | |
| I THINK IM crazy
Posted: 12/6/2008 12:33:40 PM | NGAT73:
oh there responses that will follow in regards to your posting. Im going to sit back and read.
With pleasure....
However, I will have to continue this conversation later and allow you guys to berate my comments. I don't think I am wrong and have a right to who I can associate with. My stomach has been churning and have been getting last nights food, beer, and wine shooting out from both ends and have been begging dear God for the pain to go away. Regardless, I have to make an appearance at a family function soon. :) Besides, I can't help but comment. Some of you older folks with a little life experience become dangerous after being bruised up a little-usually caused by your own misconception to people in your world of course. You befriend unknowing people into your pains and than manipulate the life out of people. That is why I don't hang out with Catty gay men any more. Unless, I am really bored and they are really funny of course. Doesn't mean I'd take them home, or leave my wallet out. :)
But do tell. | |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 12:50:26 PM | *My previous, and only other post, in this thread is on topic , and far shorter ta boot...lol*
As to dead beat parent part of this thread:
If he/she is not paying it willingly, that's what court ordered support is about - file for contempt. If they don't, or won't, work - enabling wages to be garnish FOR them, then they can go to jail and NOT pay it from there.
They can put their children's names on their visiting list to visit on Sunday, and conduct their reality check issued, and answered for, heart-to-heart through the window. Custodial, responsible parent, doesn't have to say a word... just comfort, and dry tears, get into counseling with them if need be to help them through the reality of what the dead-beat parent's relationship, or non-relationship(s) IS in relation to THEM.
Playing father/mother Christmas, or martyring yourself for the 'benefit of the children' is destructive TO the children. You, the responsible parent are an emotionally blackmailed payor, doormat and not defending your children's RIGHT to be at the very least finanacially supported by their other parent. You never have to say a negative word about the dead-beat... they meet that reality on their, and the dead beat parents terms. You, show them what 'being there' in every way means by example.
Teens working at McD's need those jobs, to learn responsiblity and grow in maturity... sure! But, for those teens that are on the payroll BECAUSE they have, or feel the need to have to fill, financially and responsibly the void of the dead-beat, is a far different teen then the one that is working for ex: date money, or whatnots. The guy/lady working the same shift, side-by-side with them - that is there working TO pay child support is also their 'teacher(s)' - by contrast. | |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 1:10:36 PM |
My stomach has been churning and have been getting last nights food, beer, and wine shooting out from both ends and have been begging dear God for the pain to go away....
But, but, but....
Some of you older folks with a little life experience become dangerous
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Posted: 12/6/2008 2:18:30 PM | | MMMMMMMMmmmmm this week into a direction that i didn't see coming . | |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 4:48:19 PM | MMMMMMMMmmmmm this week into a direction that i didn't see coming .
It happens a lot in these threads... sorry for my contribution to that.... they are meant for talk amounst many people about many things.... If every thread was a completely seperate topic this forum would be bloated more than it is.
We usually manage to squeaze in several perspectives on issues all at the same time which results in knowledge being passed around more freely.
Basically, You may have started the thread but the minute many people post in it, it is no longer jsut yours it by default becomes our thread meaning ours as a whole group.
Most managed to stay on just one topic but depending on the list of variables in the questions that becomes hard. Since your variables had to do with an Ex, not paying, employment issues, doormat issues, loans, and money in general, that automatically starts up the conversations and replies of opinions relating on all of them to try and help you in the big picture of things by allowing you to see what others went through or are going through.
It is just the fellow posters of POF sharing.
No offence but the only one i didnt see any refrence to is drunk fat people (that one seemed to have bleed in from another thread)
The rest are technically part of your origional post to discuss.
Hope that helped | |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 5:48:46 PM | nexthyme,
aren't being traumatized by a bitter pissed off mom that smears dad ever chance she gets.
Where did you get that from mine? I never said in my entire post about smearing Dad. I am a divorced mom and when the kids didn't see him for months because he was...well...busy. I just told them keep in touch with him for your sakes. When they asked why, what for? I just said he's your father and that's the only father you have and you just have to learn to deal with it. One day, you all will be happy for it.
I never hid anything from them and I never ran him down.
They are now 30 and 32 and take their father for who and what he is. They have a good relationship now and their father has tears in his eyes when he talks about how he missed so much of their teen-aged lives and they never forsook him.
My kids thank me now for my simple and honest way of dealing with him.
If I had made excuses for him, it would've made them angrier when he was so absent from their lives. High expectations lead to bigger broken hearts when they fail.
I couldn't do that to my kids.
I don't think it is fair to beat the OP up for not knowing how far is to far in trying to help he ex get his stuff together.
And I didn't beat up the OP. I was merely making a statement about some women. | |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 5:56:02 PM | You are not crazy or nuts, you are helping the father of your child to get back on his feet. and your son will thank you for that, you are not just a good mother but a good person too. | |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 6:15:49 PM | | No you are not nuts. Just a kind person tryin to help ex out. Be careful people will take advantage of you if your eyes are not wide open.. | |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 6:24:37 PM |
To aid and abet bad behaviour is NOT loving someone. How can that be loving? It's enabling their bad behaviour and keeping them trapped in irresponsibility and in loserville.
After your statements about your mum, and then this, which my apology to perceive it to mean to let your children know what a lazy scum bag their dad is, which many women do.
I was pointing out how traumatizing women can be towards the fathers of their children through their rants of what an awful person they are. In fact, I had my own guilt of that at first with my step son, which later I had to apologize for, and change my own ways.
My ex has been a dillweed, and I helped him, that is in one of the posts of mine.
It just seems like you were rather harsh, but maybe rightly so. I see the OP as a tender heart, and she has wanted to try and HELP her ex to be a better person so he could be a better dad. I had thought i could do that too, it didn't work, and my 12 yr old son, and my 2 daughters and his son (all grown up) are well aware through my ex's antics that he is who he is.
Sadly he was that way when we were married, and our entire family suffered for it, for the nine years I tried to make things work. You are right, martyrdom is not glamorous, nor does it win a person a place in heaven.
I do find it sad that many people think that the OP had an agenda when she wanted to help him, until she found out what she did. Perhaps that was the best thing that happened for the both of them?????  | |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 6:33:25 PM |
I see the OP as a tender heart, and she has wanted to try and HELP her ex to be a better person so he could be a better dad....
I do find it sad that many people think that the OP had an agenda when she wanted to help him
Agreed. | |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 6:41:37 PM | I almost want to call my ex and thank him for paying child support all those years. Yeah he was a d i c k about it at times, but it eventually showed up. There were times I had to tell my kids we were waiting on a purchase until some money came in. I worked really hard to not bash their father figuring they'd grow up and see the light eventually; and they did. They didn't need to know about the times he called me screaming that he was going to move to Canada so he wouldn't have to pay or see how he'd write "monthly bleeding" in the memo section of the checks. I always made sure they knew their dad cared enough to pay support, and I did acknowledge that to him over the years once he grew up and started just sending the checks without the comments.
I don't know how far I'd go to protect the kiddos. I know I had to protect mine when he'd say he was going to call or come visit and not show up, but once they were teens I figured it was time for them to see him unvarnished. | |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 6:49:59 PM | Thank you, Nexthyme...
I was a child of divorce...and I never saw my real father again. I couldn't let my kids go through with that. It was better that they saw him and knew him than to be forever wondering.
but once they were teens I figured it was time for them to see him unvarnished.
Perfectly said. It is the only way to deal with it. It shows respect for your kids intelligence and allows them to make their own relationship choices about him. | |
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Posted: 12/6/2008 7:37:55 PM | OP;
It's not crazy to loan your ex a thousand dollars for him to get back on his feet ...
It's only crazy if "you have to take out a loan" for a thousand dollars ... because you don't have a thousand dollars to loan him.
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Posted: 12/6/2008 7:49:52 PM | | CRAZY-NO ..NICE-YES, however never lend with a bad hand, no restrictions..suggest to your ex that since hes having a hard time paying bills that you will buy a gift or two for your son and put his name it.. | |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 3:40:50 AM |
Some of you older folks with a little life experience become dangerous after being bruised up a little-usually caused by your own misconception to people in your world of course. You befriend unknowing people into your pains and than manipulate the life out of people.
Some of us bruised up older folks are dangerous and manipulative?
Well, me and my homies can't let you young folks have all the glory now, can we?
PS.
Hope that diarrhea clears up soon, because when you get to be my age you may have to get used to it.
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ngat73
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Joined: 6/10/2007
Msg: 92 | |
| I THINK IM crazy
Posted: 12/7/2008 4:30:52 AM |
Some of us bruised up older folks are dangerous and manipulative?
Well, me and my homies can't let you young folks have all the glory now, can we?
PS.
Hope that diarrhea clears up soon, because when you get to be my age you may have to get used to it.
Thank you for your concern. Your sincerity justs brightens me up this morning. I didn't get the "homey" stuff. I'm just saying as people get older they are a little wiser and a lot more manipulative. I live in south Florida, there are a lot of older people here. After a certain point people don't mature, evolve, or change. They generally just survive and tend to use manipulation as a tool. I can go on and on with examples.
Yea, spent last evening with the family. I had received a text indicating that my niece will be in town if anyone wants to see her. My brother is newly divorced. Paper was inked about a month ago. But, apparently the ex is staying with him to take care of some business, she lives in NY now, and sending the baby off to her parents in South America. My parents ended up going to a party (I stayed at the house bitching about my stomach and watched the kids with my brother) but came back to my brothers and was offering advice for the crew present. He was asking my youngest brother's girlfriend if she were to get a doctorate if she would leave my brother, accordingly she said no, than added..."If he was handsome he would not have to be educated right?" The 74 year old man gave her a grave look and basically said "wrong" than he proceeded to ask anybody if they wanted to get engaged and suggested the appropriate ways of going about it. Everyone except for me. Since I am old and still single for the past three years. Than he proceeds to tell me how nice and a good guy my ex was, but of course I am too much for a man to handle. He doesn't realize I am the one that walked away from that relationship. At least he was able to suggest something I agree with, me going back to school to finish law school, yes even at my age. I guess after hearing how much my cousins are banking as doctors, they specialized, he wants me to at least be able to take care of myself when he passes since I will likely be to old and have such a stubborn personality that no one would marry me. Of course, three years ago he was giving me a hard time (like my ex) about using the degrees I already have. So, see even really old people change their perspective in a relatively short period of time. So, I may allow catty gay men and fat chics back in my life. :)
It was nice to see my two cute little nieces run around, Alexis amazes me with her great capacity to self-entertain. My Dad assured my brother that if his ex takes the baby off to China (her family is from Sirhnam not China, and the child is going off to her grandparents while the ex is doing something here in Florida) that my niece will seek my brother out and find him. We don't know when we are going to see her again and what will happen later when she gets a new man, or when Loren gets a new women. You know how couples fight after a dissolution in marriage. So, after I waited for his ex to call and pick up my brother up (the baby is leaving early afternnon) and hugged and kissed her she was off. Divorce is very sad, the child has no clue that her parents have divorced. My brother was quite disappointed that the ex didn't even come inside the house to say "hi" out of respect to the parents. He said he could never tolerate that type of disrespect. I guess other than being incompatible (she being a little more conservative than he) that is one of the reasons why she is an ex. I of course don't think it is appropriate either, but not my relationship to say. And, he never asked for my opinion.
Anyway, I was quite impressed with the way my brother is able to handle children, we were at another brothers house and he also has a little toddler, less than two. Alexis is like 2.5 years old. When Sophia got in her little pompasan chair, Alexis would scream demanding she be in the chair (that belonged to Sophia). As Alexis is tearing her cousin out of the chair, my brother carries Sophia and puts her in the chair with Alexis and told them to share in a nice calm voice. I was impressed with that and thought it was appropriate. Of course, they run off and do their own thing, in sight of us of course while my brother was playing video games and I was online or something. Kids will be a reflection of their parents.
What I am trying to say is, I am not negating whether the OP is a nice person or not, but when you help someone you help them irregardless of whether they are with someone else or not. You don't dangle carrots and have conditions. That is why I said she was not crazy, but being typical in trying to buy love. Relationships are very tough outside of children, but when a child is involved, parents need to see how the infighting confuses a child. Some children will spend all their life trying to decipher the mess adults create. Divorce alone is difficult as it is. It is no ones responsibility to disguise another parents faults. I believe as someone previously mentioned that a child just needs love. And, you can only assure your love to the child and no one elses. Deception confuses everything. If the other party is not taking up their end of the responsibility, there is no reason why one side has to pretend for the other. Just do what you can and let them be disappointed. Let them feel the pain. A little pain hurts less with time. But, if you disguise or confuse the situation the child could have a life time of suffering. That's all I am saying.
BTW, must have been the food I ate at Bluepoint at the Hard Rock. That place sucked and I am sure overpriced. I will never eat there again. I was on the floor puking and begging God for it to subside. Better now, however, the beers and cigarettes didn't really help this morning on the black jack tables on a stopover on my way home. Just got home , played a little black jack after the family affair. Now my head hurts and it is daylight out and people are about to wake while I try to go to bed. Stomach still feels a little queasy but I will recover when I wake I am sure. Ughhh.  | |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 5:01:34 AM | I am genuinely concerned ngat, and I can tell you have a lot on your plate. But I can't allow myself to expand further on your comments without violating forum rules (high-jacking thread/off topic) ... someone is bound to notice.
oop's ... I did it again.
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Posted: 12/7/2008 5:19:41 AM |
I see the OP as a tender heart, and she has wanted to try and HELP her ex to be a better person so he could be a better dad.
Thought I would comment on this.
Thoroughly manipulative. Ever heard of the terms "killed them with kindness", "loved them to death", "smothered with love"?
How can anyone justify trying to "change" a person? That is how many divorces happen in the first place. Spouses trying to change who they married into what they figure they want.
To keep doing so AFTER the fact is crazy! | |
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ngat73
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Joined: 6/10/2007
Msg: 95 | |
| I THINK IM crazy
Posted: 12/7/2008 10:22:24 AM |
I see the OP as a tender heart, and she has wanted to try and HELP her ex to be a better person so he could be a better dad.
Thought I would comment on this.
Thoroughly manipulative. Ever heard of the terms "killed them with kindness", "loved them to death", "smothered with love"?
How can anyone justify trying to "change" a person? That is how many divorces happen in the first place. Spouses trying to change who they married into what they figure they want.
To keep doing so AFTER the fact is crazy!
So true....so true. My newly ex-sister-in-law (whom my brother did the honorable thing and married her after she got pregnant-shot-gun wedding with 700 people...btw she was on birth control) has been working on changing my brother since they have been married. After the child was born it got worst. That is my immediate younger brother, my immediate older brother didn't marry his baby's mama but she was also on birth control and pregnant four months later. How ironic. ..but we are very lucky to have two beautiful nieces. My ex bf of eight years was trying to control and change me until I could not bear his ass anymore.
My ex treated me like a queen as long as I followed his rules. He believes love is unconditional and can only be had by a mother and a child...not even a father and a child. THis is what he said 5 years into having developed a relationship with his father. He met his father when we started dating 10 or 11 years ago. People who put conditions or try to manipulate another does not love that person. Shit...I appreciate it when people help me but rarely do people help me out of the kindness of their heart, both men and women.
I've been told I take too long to make judgements on people. Why judge? It takes time to know people. I have hard fast rules that I live by. Some things are forgiveable and some things aren't.
Someone who trys to manipulate rather than nurture you will create an unbalance.
Let me further comment about my fat chic friend. I am sorry but whenever I talk about her, the only way people knew who I was referring to was when I said the "fat" one. Sounds bad but she is very obese. She was the kindest person to me, however there was an ulterior motive. To lure one of our mutual friends to her house because of her obsession and he was avoiding her because after two years of friendship she professed her undying stalkerish love to him.
Anyway, after renting my place I stayed on her couch for five months and she fed me. No rent. Yes, I had to put up with early morning meetings about him and analyzing him to death. At first, I didn't mind but her conversations began to be limited to him. It reminds me of those horror movies where a woman does whatever it takes to keep what she is obsessed with in a cage, regardless of what is right or for the betterment of her capture. Scarey. Evil I think....however, she is a relatively nice person.
That's why for me lately, as politically incorrect or inappropriate are the predjudices that I am testing...my plan is to become what I want to be and surround myself by like-minded people. Everyone has issues that they need to work out, but how fucked up are you going to be when another fucked up person tries to control and change you to their liking. Well, more fucked up and confused. | |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 10:47:25 AM |
Thoroughly manipulative. Ever heard of the terms "killed them with kindness", "loved them to death", "smothered with love"?
Some people aren't trying to kill anyone with kindness, OR trying to change the person. The person, IE: ex spouse comes crying to them, saying they know they need to get their Shyt together, and can you please please please help, because you understand and know them best.
Then they go on to say how they know they have been screwing up, and if someone would just believe in them a LITTLE BIT, they could get it together.
We are tender hearts, because we just want to help, and do just a little bit, after all we do take responsibility after the divorce of the hurt our kids feel, and if only we could have put up with a little more just for them. Held the family together, and made things work.
I would not at that (or any point) point EVER get back with my ex, but it didn't help when the ex would let our kids down. Were mums, we just want our kids to have a happy growing up, that is just how it is.
That is NOT selfish, or even trying to be manipulative, because there are those dads that we know don't want to do anything in their life, and would rob us blind just because they think the world and we owe them.
Funny how some people have POV's that seem to think others do things with some sort of agenda to get themself something. There really are people out in the world that do things because we are kind, and really want to see the person better themself, because they ask for that chance.
I am sure the OP seen that she was being conned, and this guy wasn't going to use the money to get his shyt together, that SHE was just being scammed by him, and HE was playing on her kindness. THere are a LOT of people that do that, men and women.
I get the sense this is what happened to the OP, and she is kicking herself for being gullable, and naive yet again.
Been there done that... | |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 12:32:25 PM | My second wife kept calling me wanting us to go out for dinner. We did and she was about to cry saying how she was out of everything and had no money to spare. She was haveing problems keeping a job. BY the way it's her fault she cant keep a job. She can find more better paying jobs than anybody I know. But she wont stay with them. So back to the point. She was putting the ol guilt trip on me I suppose knowing I am very soft hearted like she does. So we go to the Wal Mart and I buy her $88. worth of house hold goods and beautifying stuff. Cleaning items, lotions, liquid hand soap, lots of other things, including toilet paper....lol lol lol.....Well she was really excited and happy and thankul. So we got to her car and I gave her the stuff I bought for my self instead of keeping it. She left very happy and thankful for me buying the stuff.
In less than a week she had her old boyfriend back living in the house with her. Pissed me of royally. I went off on her and told her what I thougth about her. She apologized and said it was not what I thought it was. I dont know how she could get that one across.
Now....Was I a fool for buying the ex wife some house hold cleaning supplies, lotions, hair color, and lots of female things. I mean I had to go far enough to tell her since I bought the toilet paper for her boy friend to wipe his arzz on did she at least think he could pay me for it. "Well, no he's not using the toilet paper you bought he has money of his own". Like the dude was going to live there but not use the bathroom supplies that I bought for her. Do you think he would not wipe his butt with the paper simply because I bought the stuff. lol lol lol....Heck no he woudn't give a hoot where it came from as long as it was on the dispenser by the comode. I had to laugh at her about that one.
Okay was I a dumb clutz for falling for her whimpering and buying her the stuff she said she needed. Or was I just being soft hearted easy prey and spending money on her or her boyfriend. | |
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| I THINK IM crazy
Posted: 12/7/2008 12:52:36 PM | Freeneasy....
You are divorced from her!!
You sound like you are still married!
Now say..100 times to yourself.
I am divorced. I do not owe her anything. I will not enable her lifestyle. I am divorced.
It's funny how people can do things for themselves very quickly when starvation looms in the horizon. She didn't let it get that far and came to you with the tears and manipulation when the toilet paper ran out.
I think it's that instinct called "survival of the fittest". She has it in spades. When the hair dye supply gets low she knows where to come to.
Now, when the stomach gets really empty, there might be someone looking for a job.
You, Freeneasy, learn to be a divorced man. Say NO and close the door.
I have no sympathy for you, sorry. | |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 1:11:34 PM | Boy your bing tough on me are you daisy!!!!! I did learn on that one o1 that she was not my responsiblity any more. Regardless of how broke she was because she wont keep a job. As far as not still being married to her I learned that a long time ago daisy but I felt bad for her at the time. I am soft hearted and she know's it. So I done what any level headed man probably would not have done. I bought her some things she said she needed.
She didn't need any food items she said. She told me her mother had bought her enough groceries and she was stocked up with food. So, I though okay I'll help her out and so I did. But when she moved the dude back in the house with her in less than a week. That really set me on fire. I called her about 10pm on a Saturday to check on her and she had to whisper. Her boyfriend was back and was there. I found out in about three more days he was living there again.
I realized that she had just "used me" to get some things they could not afford to pay for. So, I was really one not so happy camper at her and I really told her so. Even her mother apologized for her but she thanked me for helping her like I did.
I did close the door completely on that one daisypetals01 and completely. She called me last month on my birthday whising me happy birthday. She even hinted for us to meet and talk. She was thinking that her marriage plans with the same dude were not going to work out. I simply declined and let it go at that.
I am a divorced man, I am a divorved man, i am a divorced man, i am a divorced man...lol lol lol lol.......   | |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 1:29:49 PM | I have consulted the madometer OP. The needle levelled out at bonkers & stone, after straying briefly to barely chartered territory of fevered delirium..
Perhaps your just too nice
Now, how would you like bake me some chocolate cookies please as i am also in need.
Gravous need
psst double choc uns :D easy on the nuts though ;) | |
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