| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/25/2008 2:07:34 PM |
How exactly would one go about "promoting homosexuality" and if one tried doing so would they be likely come across a lot of hetrosexuals whom they could persuade into thinking "hmmm I might give that a go" ?????
I don't know, but I suspect that dealing with the topic in school sex education would be one way.
The chances are that 10% of a class might have homosexual leanings, without even knowing they have them, so it might encourage them (and even some 'heteros' among them) to experiment with it BEFORE they experiment with heterosexuality.
Puberty is a confusing time (so I'm told), so for a child to cope with the changes they are experiencing as well as being told that sex can legally occur with someone of the same sex at sixteen isn't really helping their predicament. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/25/2008 2:45:22 PM |
How exactly would one go about "promoting homosexuality" and if one tried doing so would they be likely come across a lot of hetrosexuals whom they could persuade into thinking "hmmm I might give that a go" ?????
I don't think it means promoting it in the sense of active encouragement. I think it is more about promoting it as acceptable for two people of the same gender to have a sexual relationship and raising awareness that it does happen and thereby reducing associated stigma and discrimination as well as making life easier for those young people who already are aware of their homosexuality to feel comfortable with their sexuality. So I guess the recent media efforts as mentioned in my OP as well as the efforts of schools in PSHE are really promoting the acceptance of homosexuality as a part of life.
My daughter just told me that they learn all about loving and sexual relationships with 'others who you feel comfortable having a close loving sexual relationship with' and no reference is made to any gender, so it's up to the youngsters to decide if that 'other' would be same or different gender to them, but it isn't exclusively about hetero or homo or bi sexual relationships, which seems fair to me.
She just had a read of this thread and was surprised by some of the old fashioned attitudes but that's maybe because they are 'just old and out of touch' she also said 'it winds me up how people think that teenagers are so difficult when we're much more accepting of difference and much more laid back and nicer people than most adults are. Look at S** (her school mate) we all loved him before we knew he was gay and we all still love him now, nothing's changed, some of these people would treat him like some freak and he's just a normal lad' At which point she sighed and waltzed off. Out of the mouths of babes and all that... | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/25/2008 5:30:03 PM |
so it might encourage them (and even some 'heteros' among them) to experiment with it BEFORE they experiment with heterosexuality
And by the same token sex education might (although equally improbably) encourage some homosexuals to experiment with hetrosexuality which would also somehow be "bad" althogh I cant really really fathom how exactly -unless of course the normal advice RE: contraception wasnt being followed which is surely the point of sex education in the first place no ?
being told that sex can legally occur with someone of the same sex at sixteen isn't really helping their predicament.
And I fail to see how branding a of couple sixteen year olds who might happen to have sex with each other as sex offenders and even paedophiles is going to help their "predicament"......................... | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/25/2008 5:40:55 PM |
And by the same token sex education might (although equally improbably) encourage some homosexuals to experiment with hetrosexuality which would also somehow be "bad" althogh I cant really really fathom how exactly -unless of course the normal advice RE: contraception wasnt being followed which is surely the point of sex education in the first place no ?
Quite possibly - but I have no problem with the promotion of heterosexuality!
And I fail to see how branding a of couple sixteen year olds who might happen to have sex with each other as sex offenders and even paedophiles is going to help their "predicament"........
Has anyone branded them as sex offenders or paedophiles?
At sixteen, one can legally have sex with another sixteen-year-old, regardless of either one's gender or that of the other person. That is why my post deliberately mentioned that age.
I'm not sure how either can be labelled as either a paedo or a sex-offender, nor am I confident that this question will receive an adequate response. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/25/2008 6:38:03 PM |
being told that sex can legally occur with someone of the same sex at sixteen isn't really helping their predicament.
The inference being that the fact that sex can legally occur with someone of the same sex at sixteen is a bad thing.
Now if said law were to be changed any 16 year old who carried on regardless would by definition become a sex offender. The fact that they would be having sex with someone who was below the age of consent (regardless of the fact would be below the age of consent themselves) would mean they would by legal definition (even if not as understood by people in the real world) be paedophiles as well. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/26/2008 1:40:15 AM |
The inference being that the fact that sex can legally occur with someone of the same sex at sixteen is a bad thing.
Now if said law were to be changed any 16 year old who carried on regardless would by definition become a sex offender. The fact that they would be having sex with someone who was below the age of consent (regardless of the fact would be below the age of consent themselves) would mean they would by legal definition (even if not as understood by people in the real world) be paedophiles as well.
Well, my hopes weren't high...
At no point in this thread have I advocated sex between two people where one or booth is below the age of consent. It is illegal, and I made clear in my post that I was talking about those who might experiment with sex once they had reached sixteen.
I have no problem with sex education for those who are under sixteen - my problem lies with the OP's mention of the tacit promotion of homosexuality to those who are under the legal age. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 12/26/2008 8:24:36 AM | Homosexual persons call people who aren't like them "straight", using that terimology then they would be "bent"...
As I've said before, "gay" is an old word meaning happy, now, having a penis inserted into my anus several times until it ejaculated would not make me "happy", though would certainly and no doubt make someone else happy...
I have experienced bigotry and racism on many levels, and surprise surprise, I have found bigotry (using the term from the dictionary quoted) and rejection in the bent society, and it was VERY blatantly bigotted!!
If one objects to, or comments upon this minority in our society, we are labelled with all sorts of negativity almost to the point of violently stifling all objections reminscent of the early Christian shouts of "heresy" whenever their religion was questioned, and we all know what resulted when they increased...Whitch hunts, burnings etc...The same thing seems to be happening now, here on this forum as well as in the real world....One thing I find interesting, one doesn't hear them condemning loudly about a certain Middle Eastern religion which condemns their lifestyle (to the point of death(??)...)...
Something I must add before you judge me: A few years ago, my friends brother was bent, he was afraid to "come out", I helped him to come out...Now, not the way you think, I helped him with support and encouragement to admit this to his family and he was surprised to find his brother and family offered their support....However, two years later, I found out he was married and no longer interested in other boys....
Another thing we might want to consider, and no doubt you have heard this before "it's in my genes"... Well, this could be true, but wot about persons who like their dogs?..their donkeys?...Is there some kind of gene pool the scientists haven't told us about?
Primates share our genes, in fact Chimps are supposed to be 99% of ours, but, their males don't practise the act of inserting their penis's into each other, though Binobos do, one could then argue we share our genes with them and it's ok then, it's natural...HOWEVER, beware of going down this road, they also have sex with their children...
So wot am I saying?...Wot is the point of my comments? (I just know you are asking...)...My point is, be very careful where and how far one goes with ones basic natural instincts, be careful where you go with exploring breaking down social taboos and regulations regarding our natural instincts, remember, war is also a natural occurrence within the natural world (ants and chimps for two examples).... | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/14/2009 3:31:21 AM | Your post appears to have been removed, Brown**Eyes, no doubt victim of the Forum Police again ... 
Do people think this is a good thing and a good way forward that attitudes are obviously changing (they've changed considerably since my day) or do some think this is almost promoting homosexuality as something cool?
I dont think that you need to promote homosexuality or heterosexuality- I think that attitudes have sufficiently shifted over the last twenty years or so such that most teen kids know what being gay or straight is all about (or think that they do) , and just accept it as a fact of life.
Generally this shift is a good thing - In the past we used to laff AT Larry Grayson (and his friend Everard), but we used to laff at HIM, not at his comedy. Now , we laff at Graham Norton's jokes and not him. Barriers have come down on gayness to a large extent , as they have also on racial, but I would not say that it's ever promoted as "something cool" to be gay ... ?
Nor have I seen any "witch hunts " and "burnings" on here over gay topics ?
Homosexual persons call people who aren't like them "straight", using that terimology then they would be "bent"...
These were, indeed, widely used terms in the fifties, sixties, seventies . Bent also is a term used to refer to people who are into selling / receiving illegal / stolen goods, or a minor criminal in some way. Remember that homosexuality was illegal in the fifties and sixties - it was only de-criminalised in 1967 , so the term 'bent' could easily have arisen from this criminality. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/14/2009 8:55:56 AM | Why would any "straight" compromise thier morals but observing abnormal gay sex?
Would that make the observer abnormal.
Am I the only one to think the very different attitudes to male and female homosexuals strange? With the chaps "limp wristed sweeties" but the ladies a visual treat.
If it's sauce for the goose then why not for the gander? | |
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JTFN
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Joined: 12/30/2008
Msg: 85 | |
| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/14/2009 3:48:44 PM |
I take it you disagree with Angelina Jolie then?
I will be in if she ever knocks on my front door... 
I once started a thread on here about parents and homosexuality, and asked how many parents want their kids to be homosexual......despite all the posturing by 'enlightened' poseurs here, only two women responded that they wanted their offspring to be homosexual.
Funny, that.....
Why is that funny ??
I bet you a pound to a piece of shit though that if two stunning swedish blondes [or whatever comparable 'ideal' of the perfect woman you have] wanted to drag you off to bed and have you all screw each other every which way to sunday, then what? They'd have to drag you kicking and screaming would they?
These 2 female blondes.. are they Gay Straight or Bi ?? | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 3:13:57 AM |
Why is that funny ??
OED Funny: strange, peculiar.
Every post bar one stated that although they have no problem with their kids being gay, all bar two stated that they wouldn't wish them to be gay prior to discovering that they were.
HTH | |
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JTFN
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Joined: 12/30/2008
Msg: 87 | |
| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 10:58:33 AM |
Why is that funny ??
OED Funny: strange, peculiar
Let me ask that again..
Why do you find it funny ?
What is it that makes you think its
OED Funny: strange, peculiar.
 | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:45:38 AM | Msg 86:
Every post bar one stated that although they have no problem with their kids being gay, all bar two stated that they wouldn't wish them to be gay prior to discovering that they were.
This isn't the first time this has been said.
What you didn't ask was the other question.
Did I wish my kids to be heterosexual?
No.
You see, a lot of parents (mustn't generalise too much) don't actually think in those terms. What they wish for is happy, content children. Whatever sexual orientation they end up in is of no importance if the children are happy.
In any decent research based on questioning the alternative question needs to be put to eliminate the bias that may be contained in the wording. Perhaps your research needs to be revisited and re-done.
Then perhaps it won't seem so funny. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 11:57:17 AM |
Let me ask that again..
Why do you find it funny ?
What is it that makes you think its
OED Funny: strange, peculiar.
I refer you to my answer in MSG 86
HTH
This isn't the first time this has been said.
What you didn't ask was the other question.
Did I wish my kids to be heterosexual?
No.
Mainly because I wasn't interested in whether anyone wanted that. I tend to start threads about topics I'm interested in..... | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:02:17 PM |
Read my posts again.....the ones which are written in plain English.
....
Every post bar one stated that although they have no problem with their kids being gay, all bar two stated that they wouldn't wish them to be gay prior to discovering that they were.
... maybe a few pointers to them might help?
There is nothing bigotted about claiming that homosexuality isn't normal - it's simply stating a fact,
Excepting it's not a fact.
"researchers at Orgeon State University has been investigating the sexuality of sheep. Early on, they proved what every sheep farmer knows: some 8 per cent of rams are gay. When it comes to sex, these woolly homosexuals shun ewes and engage exclusively in ram-on-ram action. They will swiftly pounce on any ram stuck in a fence - the sheep equivalent of the prison showers. The gay lovin' on Brokeback Mountain, it turns out, wasn't confined to Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger.
And it gets more intriguing. When the team studied the brains of these gay sheep, they invariably discovered they have a substantially smaller hypothalamus than their straight male siblings. This is the first hard scientific evidence of biological differences between gay and straight mammals - and they found these brain differences are already in place in the third trimester of pregnancy. Sheep, at least, are born gay or straight." The Independent
So bleat on at will - your 'fact' is just another of your utterances of uninformed bigotry. | |
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JTFN
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Joined: 12/30/2008
Msg: 91 | |
| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:11:28 PM |
Let me ask that again..
Why do you find it funny ?
What is it that makes you think its
OED Funny: strange, peculiar.
I refer you to my answer in MSG 86
One last try then......... .. .
What is it exactly that you find funny strange peculiar about it all - to you... ??
Please explain/define/say why..
Don't bother to put down again: I refer you to my answer in MSG 86 | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:45:52 PM |
Excepting it's not a fact.
"researchers at Orgeon State University has been investigating the sexuality of sheep. Early on, they proved what every sheep farmer knows: some 8 per cent of rams are gay.
Which means that 92% of rams are 'straight'. The chances of finding a ram which is 'gay' is less than 1 in 10. The chances of finding one that is 'straight' is more than 9 in 10.
Now, I don't know what definition of 'normal' you use, but I use this one:
OED Normal; conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.
Now, if you would 'expect' to stumble across anything with a 1 in 10 chance, then 'good luck' to you on that. Me, I'll stick with the 9 in 10 chance...
your 'fact' is just another of your utterances of uninformed bigotry.
Not when I can prove it mathematically. Since when did a fact become an example of 'bigotry'?
OED Bigot: a person who is prejudiced in their views and intolerant of the opinions of others.
There is no mention of 'fact' in that definition.
What does Sesame Street say about it?
One last try then......... .. .
Thank Goodness for that!
Don't bother to put down again: I refer you to my answer in MSG 86
I refer you to my answer in MSG 86
 | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:05:54 PM | Dear oh dear! Not still plugging your idea of what is normal, Message 92?
Using your very poor logic, if you are in a situation wher you are in the minority (for example, if you turn up to a PoF meet and there are more women attending than men) then you are abnormal.
Thought you would have learned not to use that argument when it was shown up as a fallacy last year. Some people do not learn, it appears!
Just because homosexuals and/or lesbians are reportedly in the minority in most societies, it does not follow that they are therefore abnormal, except in your mind, it seems.
HTH | |
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JTFN
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Joined: 12/30/2008
Msg: 94 | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:19:16 PM | In your own words:
Which means that 92% of rams are 'straight'. The chances of finding a ram which is 'gay' is less than 1 in 10. The chances of finding one that is 'straight' is more than 9 in 10.
That's the wrong word, "chances".
In a population of one hundred sheep it is NORMAL to find 8 homosexual sheep. There is no chance about it. There is no abnormality about it. It is a normal distribution of sexuality in a population of sheep. It is usual to find 8 homosexual sheep in every 100 sheep. It is expected that of every 100 sheep, 8 will be homosexual. A typical distribution of homosexuality in sheep is 8 in 100 or 2 in 25.
Has that helped you understand the argument?
You might prefer to express the thought thus: 8 sheep out of 100 do not conform to the norm, but that is another word entirely. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:20:22 PM | Is this a private argument or can anyone make a point ?
Now, I don't know what definition of 'normal' you use, but I use this one:
OED Normal; conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.
Surely if the split between straight and gay sheep is constantly around the 92% / 8% mark, then that ratio in the population as a whole is seen as "the norm" .. any significant variation (within given statistical parameters ) in the 92 / 8 % split can be seen as "abnormal"
The 92 % portion is not the "norm" , it is the majority. | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:24:39 PM |
Not still plugging your idea of what is normal, Message 92?
It's not my 'idea' of the word, actually.......I merely use it as it should be used.
Using your very poor logic, if you are in a situation wher you are in the minority (for example, if you turn up to a PoF meet and there are more women attending than men) then you are abnormal.
Nice try, but miles off!
Pof meets are open to both genders, so one would expect to find both genders at them.
So, regardless of the numbers involved, it would be normal for both genders to be represented.
Thought you would have learned not to use that argument when it was shown up as a fallacy last year.
I don't recall that being shown as a 'fallacy' at any point, but feel free to provide it again.
Just because homosexuals and/or lesbians are reportedly in the minority in most societies, it does not follow that they are therefore abnormal, except in your mind, it seems.
If they are a significant majority of human life, then it cannot be 'abnormal' to be anything. However, until they are proven to be anything greater than the small percentage they appear to be, then the statement "it is not normal for a human to be anything other than heterosexual" is true, regardless of who may make that statement, and given the definition supplied. | |
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JTFN
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Joined: 12/30/2008
Msg: 98 | |
| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:32:54 PM |
Puberty is a confusing time (so I'm told)
I do actually agree with the part above. To add some balance to all this... from my point of view...
I do remember when I was school at the age of around 12,13,14 etc. How i just could not stop thinking about sex/women/sex/women/sex/women/school lessons/sex/women/sex/women/sex/women/sex 
I am sure its been said back (forgotten who- sorry) in the thread that sex education is now taught without any bias at all. Together with ‘this is how you make babies’ and this is ‘how you take actions to stop making babies’….
All without bias | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:51:08 PM |
That's the wrong word, "chances".
No, it's the correct word if were taking one ram at random, the chances are (with 92% of all rams being hetero) that the one I chose WAS hetero, and that is exactly what I would 'expect' a ram to be. Therefore, it would be a 'normal' ram if it then turned out to be.
You might prefer to express the thought thus: 8 sheep out of 100 do not conform to the norm, but that is another word entirely.
Actually, it's not!
OED Norm: the usual, typical, standard thing.
It's basically an abbreviation.
So, do YOU accept that " 8 sheep out of 100 do not conform to the norm"?
Or was your comment meant to be stated by me?
Is this a private argument or can anyone make a point ?
Anyone can contribute.
The 92 % portion is not the "norm" , it is the majority.
Wonderful contradiction - thanks for that! | |
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| Homosexuality
Posted: 10/16/2009 3:29:09 AM |
OED Normal; conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.
It is normal, typical or expected that in a population of 100 rams, 8 of them will be homosexual. This is the standard result that would usually be found. It is the norm that 8% of rams are gay.
"One in 16 Britons is homosexual, say the first such figures compiled by the Government.
It means that six per cent of the population - about 3.6 million people - are gay or lesbian.
Whitehall actuaries calculated the figure as one in 16.66 while analysing the financial implications of the new Civil Partnerships Act, which allows same-sex partners to "marry" and gives them similar rights to married couples in areas such as tax, pensions and inheritance.
Previous answers had ranged from as high as one in five to as few as one in 100.
The Department of Trade and Industry says there are an estimated 1.5 million to two million homosexuals and bisexuals in the 30 million-strong workforce.
With a population of 60 million, it is estimated that the country has a homosexual community of between three and four million members." Daily Telegraph Dec 05.
There are therefore about the same number of gay people in the UK as there are people who fish. In contrast there are approx 250,000 members of the Conservative Party and 16,000 UKIP members. The party headed by Nick Griffin has circa 10,000 members.
So if being gay is not 'normal', it must be an extremely queer thing to belong to the Conservative Party, UKIP, Nick Griffin's party etc. | |
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(i do mean good fun and a laugh)