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| Satanism
Posted: 3/27/2008 3:01:07 PM | I've had customers at work who if their total comes to $6.66 they quickly add another item
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| Satanism
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:02:56 PM |
In the 16th centery a scientist discovered how to sell his soul to the devil, by signing a contract after 6 hours 6 minutes and 6 seconds is up the devil becomes the rightful owner of your soul.
Is that according to the clocks set in Greenwich or Hell?
I'd really like to see someone attempt to make a "valid" numerological connection between 666 and Satan but outside of poorly written evangelical "spook" books and equally bad Satanist books attempting to cash in on teenage rebellion and gullibility, as well as associations between 666 and The Beast described in Revelations, which in my opinion is a non-prophetic reference to Rome and very likely Nero, there is no good reason to associate the two.
But it looks so spooky on T-shirts and reminds everyone of the Omen Movies and who doesn't like a good boogeyman story? | |
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Posted: 3/28/2008 9:28:16 AM | this is 6 hours, 6 minutes, and 6 seconds after you sign the cotract presented to you by Mephistopheles (note: Mesphistopheles and Satan are two different Devils) Mephistophelese is a (Greek) devil that is "He who shuns the light"  | |
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Posted: 3/28/2008 11:37:50 AM |
associations between 666 and The Beast described in Revelations, which in my opinion is a non-prophetic reference to Rome and very likely Nero, there is no good reason to associate the two.
Actually,I read that 666 was a mis translation.According to the Dead Sea Scrolls,the Mark of the Beast is actually "616". | |
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Posted: 3/28/2008 12:38:51 PM |
Actually,I read that 666 was a mis translation.According to the Dead Sea Scrolls,the Mark of the Beast is actually "616".
So it's a guy living way down the street from the Beast 
this is 6 hours, 6 minutes, and 6 seconds after you sign the cotract presented to you by Mephistopheles (note: Mesphistopheles and Satan are two different Devils) Mephistophelese is a (Greek) devil that is "He who shuns the light"
And it probably says that in some moldy old or not so old grimoire because *insert Jeopardy music and wait for Occam's Razor to kick in* ...the association with the number in Revelations, not because of any actual numeric association between the number 6 and the entity in question. It smells funny in any case...I'd want to redo the work on that one.
The idea of a "Satanic contract" is very likely just a **stardized conception of invocatory magick filtered through the "Chinese whispers" game anyway...so the hour minute and second might relate to the magickal hours of operation but to be honest, I couldn't be arsed to look it up so close to work. | |
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Posted: 3/28/2008 7:32:23 PM | | Of course you know it's 999... (Emergency services) ring this number in the UK by mistake and there's always hell to pay. | |
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Posted: 3/28/2008 10:00:20 PM |
Christianity and Satanism are complete opposits to, this is because the "coin" is flipped around Satanism is the "left hand path" and all other's are the "right hand path"
ALL others? Not true at all. Though the "left hand/right hand" concept is rejected by a large number of religious scholars, in any case there are a number of other belief systems that walk the same path, including some forms of paganism, setianism and even hindu.
In the 16th centery a scientist discovered how to sell his soul to the devil, by signing a contract after 6 hours 6 minutes and 6 seconds is up the devil becomes the rightful owner of your soul.
You're joking, right? a) In general Satanists don't believe in the devil or Mephistopheles as actual beings. You may have read a different Satanic Bible than mine. b) How did a "scientist discover" this? What sort of "scientist" would study that, and what exactly was he studying when he stumbled on this "fact". c) Who the hell (no pun intended) would sign a contract for 6 hour 6 minutes and 6 seconds? What a ludicrous contract.
I'd really like to see someone attempt to make a "valid" numerological connection between 666 and Satan
There's not a lot of depth to them, but here's what I've come up with. Nero does seem the most compelling explanation. Depending on spelling (it could be Neron in Greek, or Neron in Latin, iirc) it would add up to 616 OR 666, which would explain that difference. 616 appears to be the earliest version used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast_%28numerology%29
http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/numero.htm
Getting back to the OP, I know what you mean about that sort of pre-judgement on anyone with a "dark" look. And in fairness a lot of people who go for that Aesthetic do find "real" Satanism appealing. To the people that question the OP's use of the term "real" they weren't making any assessment of what sect or type is real, but rather stating their own exclusion from any such group. Imagine you saw someone with black pants, white business shirt, black tie, holding a large book. You might think they were a mormon. But in this case, they're not. That's their work uniform and the book is one they borrowed from a friend. About Bees. Anyway, they are not a REAL mormon. But that's not a judgement call about what a "real" mormon is. But certainly you aren't one if you... say... share none of their beliefs. At all.
In any case I posted this on another Satanism related thread, but it died really quickly afterwards, so I hope no one minds if I re-post it here. It took ages to write, so...
Ok, this is a really long post. My apologies. I've studied Satanism a bit so I thought I'd clear up the misunderstandings.
Satanism is not about worship of the Devil as an evil entity, but rather worship of the self and the power of the individual. It's a religion based on the valuing of excellence and intelligence, self interest, and individual responsibility.
Few (if any) Satanists actually believe in The Devil (or God) so suggesting that Satanists are backing either the bad guy or the losing side is missing the point. Satanists also don't tend to believe in either evil or sin, as both are arbitrary and subjective concepts, and in many cases completely hypocritical.
Not many people would put Satanism as their religion because a) it's not an option. And b) it's not in their best interests. The latter of which is at the core of Satanism.
Satanism is often blamed for certain crimes. These crimes are usually the action of disturbed people with mental problems who claim to be Satanists. That's much the same as the crimes committed by those who claim God made them do it. Ie, not representative of the beliefs.
An important part of Satanism is that sacrifice of animals is thoroughly not allowed, any Satanist who was sacrificing animals would be rejected and derided by other practitioners.
The long version for those with actual interest:
Satanism is a religion that few but practitioners really know much about. I refer, by the way, to Laveyan Satanism. There are a few different branches of things that call themselves Satanism, but most "satanists" are of the LaVeyan type. (Or occasionally part of a branch off that.)
First of all, few Satanists believe in Satan. I know. Weird, huh? Specifically they don't believe in Satan as a literal being, the opposite of God (who most also don't believe in).
Satanism could generally be thought of more as "elitist self-interest" than anything else. The "Satan" that Satanists worship is themselves. They see themselves at the core and centre of their own universe, and see themselves as the true power in their own lives. Satanists respect and embrace teh beast within themselves, the carnal, the powerful. The other names given to Satan (Beelzebub, Baal, Lucifer, etc) are often adopted as well, to call on the aspects of what those now demonised pagan gods represented. Music, intelligence, truth, hidden mysteries, etc.
Satanism is called that for a reason. It's a deliberate rejection of the "mainstream" view of Christianity. Its aesthetic, doctrine, and name are all deliberately and openly antithetical to Christianity. This is not (just) because they don't agree with christianity, but because they don't agree with any degree of unthinking following of any belief or attitude.
Satanists are almost always pretty much atheists, not believing in God, or the Devil, etc. The reason they're an "ism" at all is that LaVey believed (as many do) that there is a need for ritual, for belief, in the human psyche.
Satanists consider "morality" and "sin" as pointless and meaningless concepts. They are arbitrary and subjective, so attempting to live by them is useless. Satanists therefore consider nothing "wrong" as such, and particularly consider sexual "sins" of little interest or importance.
Satanism values above all things intelligence. They consider themselves an intellectual elite. And to be honest they generally are very intelligent. Satanists therefore do whatever best suits their needs, regardless of morality. They don't kill people... because that would be stupid. You go to jail. Same with being kind to other people. It's generally in your best interests to be kind, courteous, and thoughtful to other people.
Being stupid is actually (literally) the greatest sin. I probably mis-spoke myself earlier. There ARE considered 9 Sins among Satanists. They're basically things like Stupidity (1) and Herd Conformity (5). Pride is one also, but that's Counterproductive Pride (8). Pride itself is considered a positive. It's hard to worship yourself as the god of your own universe without a healthy dollop!
Herd Conformity is one thing Satanists despise, and almost to a man (or woman) they speak of not fitting in, not being like everyone else, and feeling they're better than other people. Any comments about the irony of joining a group of non-conformists are usually ignored.
The actual philosophies of Satanism are really pretty mild. The Satanic Bible is the clearest of all "religious books" mostly because it's written in English, and quite recently.
The 11 Satanic Rules of the Earth
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
Most of them are are quite reasonable and even wise unless you find the use of the term "lair" weird, which I do. LaVey uses "lair" to refer to your house, unit, room, caravan, tent, etc.
4 and 11 need further explanation. LaVey was a believer that people who are rude, stupid, obnoxious, boorish and aggressive should not be apologised for, excused and tolerated. They should be driven out, ostracised and rejected. That's what he means by "destroy". Not killing. That would be stupid.
5 is a good theory. We all hate those sleazy losers who hit on every woman. I just wish I knew the mating signal. And was given it.
7 is also interesting, as it talks about magic. Satanists believe in two kinds of Magic (Magick, to differentiate it from stage magic, etc).
The Lesser Magick is the power one person can have over another by things like appearance, wiles, confidence, subtle manipulation, etc. This is no different to what "secular" people do, just mystified up a bit, written out, etc. If you think it doesn't work try wearing a singlet and shorts to a job interview. Women are considered particularly capable of this magic, and LaVey's book on it is called The Satanic Witch for that reason. (I haven't read it. Couldn't find it easily.)
The Greater Magick is ritual magic that essentially uses a number of items and systems to create spells to gain the desire of the practitioner, ranging from wealth, sex and power to killing of enemies. I often wondered about that last, as personally I could never want to kill anyone. Then a close friend of mine was raped (again), and I realised that if I did have the power to do such a thing (kill the rapist at a distance with my will) I would certainly do it.
LaVey was a big believer in this sort of magick, and his book on it (The Satanic Rituals) is full of dark incantations, stuff to do with silver daggers, etc. I've read that one. It's mildly interesting.
The big question, of course, is whether it works. The principle is a well known one, wish for what you want, essentially The Secret, but with scarier costumes. LaVey swore by it, to the degree that it's one of the fundamental points of his religion. But in later years since he died the prominence of it has gone up and down.
My personal opinion is that it doesn't work. I have no basis for that as I haven't tried it, but I'm not that keen to spend weeks of my life in a black velvet cape with a dagger and an upside down crucifix chanting Enochian to prove it for myself.
I agree with many (almost all) of the basic principles of Satanism. In particular the value of individual responsibility. They also push consistently for all churches to pay taxes, which I'm a big supporter of. They (the Church of Satan) do pay taxes themselves, despite being exempt.
Why am I not a Satanist?
1. I don't need to be. That "need" for ritual, etc, LaVey wrote of, I simply don't have.
2. I see no benefit to me in being part of it. Which is sort of the core of Satanism itself.
3. I have no desire to associate officially with something generally (deliberately) percieved as "icky".
4. I have neither belief nor interest in the ritual and magic aspects.
5. The darkness and "spookiness" of Satanism doesn't appeal to me at all. A bit too emo.
6. The worldview is simply too bleak. All other persons are seen as mere pawns to be manipulated.
7. It's too cold and unforgiving. To the Satanist the poor are seen as failures, who simply didn't have what it took and failed at the social darwinism level. While I believe that we're all to some degree responsible for our fates and situations I simply can't go quite as far as the Satanist tends to.
8. Far too much reliance on money as the only counter of success or value of a person. | |
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Posted: 3/28/2008 10:50:51 PM |
You're joking, right? a) In general Satanists don't believe in the devil or Mephistopheles as actual beings. You may have read a different Satanic Bible than mine. b) How did a "scientist discover" this? What sort of "scientist" would study that, and what exactly was he studying when he stumbled on this "fact". c) Who the hell (no pun intended) would sign a contract for 6 hour 6 minutes and 6 seconds? What a ludicrous contract.
To clarify what I was mentioning earlier and perhaps shed light on this fragment, it looks like a reference to invocation/evocation magick that was done requiring the use of the "planetary hours" of the particular entity involved. One finds which one of the philosophical planets the spirit in question is "ruled by" and then which of the planetary hours one needs to perform the given magick in...these do not conform to standard hours but rather are divided from the rise and fall of that planet in the heavens in your locality.
In any case, this has of course nothing to do with 666 and less than nothing to do with modern Satanism as a movement and any attempt to associate the two would be a load of bollix. I'm afraid I must side with you and say someone needs to be a-checkin' their info...
You know what the most tiresome thing about LaVeyan Satanism is?
Most of the work of the great big "pant-load" known as Anton LaVey is plagiarized from others...the man was a lying, plagiarizing, wife-beating, animal-harming thief, and his life was, quite frankly, mostly one that was of no great moment.
http://www.luckymojo.com/esoteric/religion/satanism/ref.laveylegends.txt
LEGEND: ASL wrote the _Satanic Bible_, his principal work, to fulfill his
congregation's need for a scriptural guide.
REALITY: _The Satanic Bible_ was conceived as a commercial vehicle by
paperback publisher Avon Books. Avon approached ASL for some kind of
Satanic work to cash in on the Satanism & witchcraft fad of the late 1960s.
Pressed for material to meet Avon's deadline, ASL resorted to plagiarism,
assembling extracts from an obscure 1896 tract - _Might is Right_ by Ragnar
Redbeard into a "Book of Satan" for the _SB_, and claiming its authorship
by himself. [Ironically these _MiR_ passages are the ones most frequently
quoted by ASL disciples.] Another third of the SB consists of John Dee's
"Enochian Keys", taken directly but again without attribution from Aleister
Crowley's _Equinox_. The _SB_'s "Nine Satanic Statements", one of the
Church of Satan's central doctrines, is a paraphrase, again unacknowledged,
of passages from Ayn Rand's _Atlas Shrugged_. The last words in the _SB_ -
"Yankee Rose" - have been puzzled over for years by readers. "YR" is
actually the name of an old popular tune in ASL's nightclub repertoire.
SOURCES: ASL, _The Satanic Bible_; Ragnar Redbeard, _Might is Right_, Port
Townsend: Loompanics (reprint), 1896; Ayn Rand, _Atlas Shrugged_ (Galt's
speech, ca. pages #936-993); "Yankee Rose" by Sidney Holden & Abe Frankl
(Irving Berlin Music, 1926).
Ayn Rand, Ragnar RedBeard, Aleister Crowley and John Dee, all unacknowledged or outright ripped off...and that's only in the Satanic Bible... read the rest of the stories at the link above and smell the BS. Astounding.
Too emo indeed. | |
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Posted: 3/29/2008 1:17:51 AM | Thanks for the interesting info!
I knew some of this. I've read one of the "biographies" listed in that text, and it read to me more like propaganda and mythologising than any genuine life-story.
I didn't know that about his past, the violence, etc. Sounds like a charmer! | |
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Posted: 3/30/2008 7:22:01 PM | He was a Jewish-American conman, a (would-be) showman somewhat famous, or infamous I guess, around the Bay Area mostly , in the mid to late 60's. Real name Howard Stanton Levy, and born right here in Chicago actually so I've heard. Never had anything to do with helping "run guns" for the Irgun Gang, , being a crime scene photographer for the SFPD, dating (much less sleeping with) Marilyn Monroe, being a lion tamer, playing the organ at that famous theatre (since gone I believe) out in San Fran, & so much other BS as well. I recall in high school his book was popular for about 15 min's in certain circles. I don't think it led to very much good overall that's for sure, whatever the author's original intentions were.
I believe from most recent available accounts this guy was the "legend in his own mind" type of guy, who basically wound up a lonely rather paranoid misanthrope who carried a gun on him, preferred to spend time with "humanoids" (lifelike mannequins basically which he made on his own I think) rather than real ppl, and his own daughters wouldn't even speak to him. A footnote in the history of kitschy American "weird" I guess, although he still does have a few followers here and there who "worship" the way it's taught in the book, usually either alone or in small like-minded "LaVeyan" groups which they call "grottos". BBC journalist Louis Theroux included a chapter on these ppl and him and his "church" (or what remains of it really) in his recent book. | |
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Posted: 4/12/2008 10:58:20 PM |
So it's a guy living way down the street from the Beast
You're thinking of 667, the neighbor of the beast. | |
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Posted: 5/22/2008 10:24:48 AM | | Satan appeared to me in human form. I didn't know it was him...he looked exactly like someone I knew. I could tell you the whole story if you're interested. Jim | |
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Posted: 5/22/2008 1:53:55 PM | ^^^^
The tax man doesn't count | |
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Posted: 6/9/2008 6:49:42 PM | | Had some run-ins years ago. Extremely unpleasant. Basically, the people and spirits have no life force of their own and don't draw upon the absolute. Therefore, they seek to suck the life out of everything else they run into. Anton LeVey also, apparently, had sex with his daughter. I had a musician friend years ago who dated her. God. | |
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Posted: 6/21/2008 12:58:20 PM |
You're speaking of MILITARISM!! "Satan" is a military term referring to rank!!! Duh!!!
At least research a name before organizing a religion around it...... lol
Thank you for listening!!!
BreeZ
Where in the world did you here that? I'd love to know. It's complete nonsense...but I'd love to hear who said it. No offense. Do you have a citation? | |
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Posted: 6/21/2008 4:35:35 PM | You're speaking of MILITARISM!! "Satan" is a military term referring to rank!!! Duh!!! I don't believe it, but this guy said it.
The truth about Satan and his army of fallen angels by Dr. Jack Van Impe. . . . In Revelation 9:1-6, we see a demonically inspired and controlled army- the world's most ferocious army, totaling 200 million men, about to invade the Middle East. I would assume that each soldier is under the power of a fallen angel. And Ephesians 6:12 mentions, "principalities, powers, the rulers of the darkness of this world and spirit wickedness in high places."
These are military terms for fallen angels. They have the equivalent of five-star generals, lesser generals, captains, lieutenants, sergeants, right down to buck privates. All of these players have a role in controlling not only individual lives here on earth, but even the governments of nations.
Jack Leo Van Impe (born February 1930) is a televangelist who appears on his weekly television show Jack Van Impe Presents. Van Impe's website claims that he is known as the "Walking Bible" because of his extensive memorization of Bible verses. www.jvim.com
Learn something new everyday. | |
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Posted: 6/21/2008 5:23:20 PM | Well, I'll wait and see if that was indeed the poster's source. I was hoping for something shall we say...uhm...a little more...authoritative *chuckle* than someone like Van "Imp".
That is to say, I already know what the origin is of the word Satan, that it is quite undisputed, and that it has bollix all to do with a ranking system... I just wanted to see where indeed the poster would get such stuff from.
So if your putting bets on Van Impe and the "principalities and powers" thingie, I'd say that's a fair cop. | |
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Posted: 6/27/2008 9:25:27 PM | I've actually spoken with the Church of Satan in New York. Basically, they are athiests - no god, no devil, no afterlife, no magic or anything supernatural. They adopt a live-and let live attitude but don't believe at all in what bible believers call "turning the other cheek". They consider a person's worth is measured by their actions, not their beliefs. All the spooky ritual stuff is more for fun, to freak out christians .
The way it was described to me was: The only people who believe in a magical creatured named satan are christians. Satanists are the polar opposite of christians (anti-christians or antichrist-ians). So - if you beleive in Satan, you're a chriatian and if you don't believe in satan, you're a satanist.
This I believe is an example of the Paradoxataur - a mythical creature that only exists when you dont believe in it.
PS - the weird thing is I spoke with them last christmas. | |
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Posted: 6/28/2008 1:21:41 PM | If you go back into time, well before the bible and its writings. Ancient Astrologers seen the planet Venus as a planet of values, femine. Venus has two direct influences in the sky. Its the morning star and the evening star. As the morning star it rose before the Sun, thus the Bearer of light and given the Name Lucifer. As the evening star its qualities changed as to represent the Sun after its doings of the day. Its name would have Been Isis in Egypt, Inna to the Sumers or Babylonians.(Manly P Hall) To those astrologers, Venus rules all things practical, sensual, money and self worth. All the things the Satanist seem to understand. Values of the Ego.
In mystical understanding, Satan refers, Gnostically to the mind. In Revelations its says, That Lucifer sat on the right hand of G-d. So whose on the left. Through out the bible you often see that said the right hand of G-d and the Left hand of G-d. Now, in Gnostic understanding, G-d created Sophia, an entity under G-d, part of G-d but to a lesser degree. Sophia represents the mind. Thats how the Greeks created the word Philo-Sophia. Please this is all a form of symbolism. This entity called Sophia created a lesser entity and its this entity that believes that its the real G-d and only G-d. Its a lesser creation therefore does not understand or see anything above itself. Thus the self thus the Ego.
Bear with me, Its said in the book or Revelations that "Satan sat upon the throne of G-d", Throughout the Bible again you read about the Throne of G-d, the Throne and so on. Now try to imagine that the Throne of G-d is your mind. As the Gnostic's believe it to be. The left hand and right hand are the lobes of the Brain and that the mind is the builder of thoughts and connections to all beliefs. Satan rules, deceit and deception. So for me, Satan represents a negative form of thinking or a duality possibly ying and yang explanations.
For me Satanism does not really exist as a religion but a way of life of living in this world. Were all sinners because we live here. We should look at Sin as a gift from a creator. We are permitted to Sin. And if the symbolism is correct, then Lucifer who is the Bearer of light represents negative thinking and ego, and its throu this we find redemption and so on to Salvation and so on. So symbolically Satanism or Lucifer is a function of this reality and not something to be worshiped just lived.
What I just wrote is a condensed concept from Astrology, Kabbala, Mythological symbolism, and ancient Greek culture. Oh Yea, Some Rosicrucian concepts. Generalized. Interesting stuff, kind of separates you from religion. either one | |
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Posted: 6/29/2008 5:19:30 PM |
Of course you know it's 999... (Emergency services) ring this number in the UK by mistake and there's always hell to pay.
999...The Mark of the Dyslexic Beast | |
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Posted: 6/29/2008 9:25:37 PM | | lol back in the day ive been called a satanist.....simply because i refused to beleive in christ...and was a metal head...but i always told people to be a satanist wouldnt i have to believe in satan? | |
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Posted: 6/30/2008 4:57:16 PM | To me Satanists are really just Humanists, if you've done some reading you'd understand. Often they are confused with Daemonolators - who are actually people who believe demons are humankinds benefactors and not evil at all.
Satan translated just means Opposer or Challenger. And refers to a class of angels led by Lucifer.
Anyway, I'm out. Gonna throw some salt around just in case. | |
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Posted: 6/30/2008 5:33:01 PM | | I believe in satanism myself, Actually modern satanism is not about worshipping the "devil", its about to me believing in yourself, some self indulgence and giving kindess to those who derserve it. | |
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