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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/27/2009 7:47:47 PM |
I guess I don't do a good job of separating those two things, especially since I usually end up in relationships with women I sleep with.
 That's because you sleep with women first, relationship second.
I personally prefer the order: friendship, sex, intimacy, but it can work all ways, I suppose! | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/27/2009 7:51:47 PM | | To be honest, I think if men were upfront many times they'd find the woman would be into it for just that as well. I'm not like that myself but theres a lot of things to be said regarding it. I have a lot of chick friends who are out there and just want a guy for fun and if she found something serious would commit to that but would just like to have fun. So rather than make himself look like an ass I think a guy should just be upfront. I think it's good for both persons to be upfront. You never know unless youre honest and how do you start a relationship if you can't be honest, sex or no sex? | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/27/2009 7:53:16 PM |
So you don`t want to date, don`t want to get to know a woman, don`t want to be heads of households, don`t want to spend any of your precious money, don`t want to be there for a woman, don`t want a relationship.But some women don`t want that and find it being a pig and insulting. If a guy has a right to state that he wants just sex right from the start, no strings, a woman has the right to say she is not interested and that she finds this insulting. Put on your big boy pants and take the rejections without
getting all nasty. Just a numbers game, you`ll find that taker that will put out immediately sooner or later.
Many men DO want to get to know a woman and have a relationship...just because they want to have sex with you doesn't mean that's all they're after. A lot of men don't need to know everything about you to desire to sleep with you...while a lot of women need more time to desire sex from someone. It's not a personal affront - it's how they're wired. They can also be big boys and ignore their penises if they so desire.
Men and women work differently. If both parties understand that, it's not a huge deal. | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/27/2009 11:39:25 PM |
That's because you sleep with women first, relationship second.
I personally prefer the order: friendship, sex, intimacy, but it can work all ways, I suppose!
Actually, I think you are equivocating intimacy with a formal commitment.
But does it work better than my way? I had a relationship with the same woman from age 18-24 and I lived with her most of that time, yet managed to not end up married to her, so I never had to get divorced. She was the second person I ever slept with and I was her first and we had sex probably within the first two weeks we started seeing each other. I'd say that many of those on this site who are so sure that doing things in the order you outline have rushed and will rush into marriage because of sex far more easily than I will. I'm also very open to intimacy, so I have no problem seeing sex and intimacy as practically the same thing, or at least, what I consider terrible sex is sex without intimacy. I've several relationships that have lasted longer than a lot of marriages, so I'm doing better than many and I don't have 2 or 3 divorces and kids from different partners for baggage.
Also, the reason I'm very up front about sex in my profile is that I'm realistic. Despite what women say about being independent, there are few women willing to get into a dating relationship with someone who isn't willing to offer up his stock portfolio and decide whether or not to get into a relationship based on his financial statements, especially at my age. (I don't want to date those women anyway. so I'm not missing all that much except the part where I would have to lie to attract them.) Right now, my financial future is tied up in the assets of the business I own and I'm not about to go work in a cubicle at a job I hate for the sake of someone else's idea of what constitutes a good catch.
It's a lot easier to just look for sexual partners who really are satisfied with knowing I can pay my own way - and theirs too, as far as going out is concerned. If women were satisfied with just being independent and worrying about their own financial issues instead of mine, I'd look for something other than sex. However, at least I get most of what people usually want in relationship instead of just a lot of dates that aren't going to ever get to sex. | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/28/2009 2:52:19 AM | Wow, all I can say is "FREAKIN' Wow". This thread has brought ALL of the BS floating to the top of Humanity.
What amazes me is why most of you simply restrict yourselves, and bog yourselves down in the SMALLEST and MINUTE trivia, as if you WANT to fail, and never find what you want. I don't get it (but I do). Half of you want to argue with each other over the "right" way, when you don't realize it isn't RIGHT, it is only the way YOU do it.
And that none of that BS matters at all, and never did.
The World/Universe: Is mine when I want it, when and how I want it. I only have to give it a think, for every way of doing ONE SINGULAR thing, there are the multiple possibilites that time/space considers to be technically infinite, and that isn't counting the ways I have NOT even begun to dream!
If you really and truly WANT to force yourself into a prison with no walls, you get exactly what you want that is limited inside that area, and miss the entirety of world outside that limited thinking. Hence, you never taste the world you actually DO want, because you have simply forgotten that there ARE other ways, of GETTING EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT.
A true damned shame people focus on the most unimportant and pathetic parts of minutae, but luckily, I restrict myself not. Unfortunately, for us out here having fun in the sun, it DOES get lonely when people rarely join us, because they have forgotten what Life actually is. | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/28/2009 6:40:09 AM |
Actually, I think you are equivocating intimacy with a formal commitment
I'm actually not...it just seems that way because of what comes before.
It's just that I find it hard to open up emotionally to someone before sex, but I prefer not to have sex before I have a personal connection to the person. So, ideally we'd become friends first, then have sex, and then have all the other stuff follow. A formal commitment is really rather unimportant to me at the moment, but a relationship still needs all three things.
Does it work better that way? I have no clue! I haven't done a lot of experimentation. The way I progress is just a result of my natural tendencies, and the importance I place on friendship in a relationship.
Why do you think women who do things in that order would marry too soon? How would having sex first protect them from that? I've found that my friends who waited to have sex until they were married took the plunge too soon, but that's nowhere near what I'm referring to. If anything I would think sex too soon would create weaker relationships that have no foundation on anything but passion. | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/28/2009 9:20:43 AM |
It's just that I find it hard to open up emotionally to someone before sex, but I prefer not to have sex before I have a personal connection to the person. So, ideally we'd become friends first...
That isn't entirely true. Your sexual interest is there first. If it weren't, you wouldn't care if you were physically attracted to your date. Second, unless you make a personal connection on the first date, there won't be a second date, so by the end of the first date, if not sooner, you've already established a sexual interest and a personal connection. (If neither of those were true, going on a second date would be no different than going out to lunch with an acquaintence of either gender.) Since I find it impossible to talk to the social butterfly types who talk a lot, but say nothing, withn an hour, I'll either have nothing to say to someone or I'm going to discussed some things in enough depth to know if she's someone I could be in a relationship with. Since I never talk about myself, women with something to say seem to say a lot in a short amount of time. The friendship part has never been an issue. I polarize people very quickly and there isn't much inbetween the extremes.
I haven't done a lot of experimentation.
I have and I've noticed that if it wasn't there at the start, it never happened no matter how much time passed being ``friends.'' Things only become awkward knowing that being around someone means struggling to have a conversation.
Why do you think women who do things in that order would marry too soon?
If you've spent 6 months beoming friends with someone, then having sex only tends to reinforce the belief that you're right for each other, even though you really don't know each as well as you think. The reason is what you said about not being able to open emotionally to someone before having sex. Really, at the end of six months of being friends and then having sex, you're no further along than had you just had sex the first week, because you can't really get to know someone until you open up completely. I think that explains your observation that your friends who waited until marriage for sex , were the ones who took the plunge too soon. Sex (i.e., the desire for it) prompted them to get married. The only successful (i.e. 20+ years) marriages that I know about where the couples waited until marriage are more like sexless friendships. I'm sure there are exceptions.
I would think sex too soon would create weaker relationships that have no foundation on anything but passion.
Just because you start there doesn't mean you have to stop there. If nothing else, at least a few months or a few years in a very passionate relationship beats the same amount of time dating lots of people, keeping a mental note of ``red flags,'' and biting your nails over whether you REALLY think it's time to maybe have sex. If you make sex out to be a REALLY big deal, you are more likely to stay in a bad relationship because of it. I've tried the ``are we really ready for sex,'' approach and it only made sex such a major event that once we had sex, it was like making a commitment to get married, which added lots of pressure, etc. The only real difference between the sexual relationship(s) I'd like to find here and a ``real'' relationship, is that I'm willing to go along with the idea that it won't ever be anything more for the time being to avoid having to deal with the financial statement/background check/other red flag bullshit hassles and discussions in exchange for not promising anything more, even though I wouldn't rule something more than that out. | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/28/2009 5:31:53 PM |
That isn't entirely true. Your sexual interest is there first. If it weren't, you wouldn't care if you were physically attracted to your date.
I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Even if I never had sex with a person I was dating, I wouldn't want to be forced to look at someone I found unattractive for the rest of my life.
But yes, because I'm not celibate, I look for someone I'm attracted to. But it's purely interest. Not desire. The desire comes from much more than physical attraction. I've gone out with attractive but boring, unintelligent, immature men who I never had the slightest desire to sleep with.
Second, unless you make a personal connection on the first date, there won't be a second date, so by the end of the first date, if not sooner, you've already established a sexual interest and a personal connection. (If neither of those were true, going on a second date would be no different than going out to lunch with an acquaintence of either gender.)
Since I find it impossible to talk to the social butterfly types who talk a lot, but say nothing, withn an hour, I'll either have nothing to say to someone or I'm going to discussed some things in enough depth to know if she's someone I could be in a relationship with. Since I never talk about myself, women with something to say seem to say a lot in a short amount of time. The friendship part has never been an issue. I polarize people very quickly and there isn't much inbetween the extremes.
Maybe I warm up to people slowly, I don't know, but I rarely (more accurately, never) find myself feeling "connected" on the first date. I'm left either wanting to get to know the person better, or not. I may know whether or not I could see myself becoming friends with the person, but not if we would be compatible relationship-wise. There's just too much to know, and, like you, it seems older men rarely talk about themselves.. That means I have to spend even longer trying to get to know the person!
I have and I've noticed that if it wasn't there at the start, it never happened no matter how much time passed being ``friends.'' Things only become awkward knowing that being around someone means struggling to have a conversation.
If "what" wasn't there from the start? Sex? Desire to have sex? Chemistry?
When I use the term "friends," I'm using it loosely. I'm not going out on dates with men telling them I only want to be friends first. I'm referring more to a personal feeling - the feeling that even if we never start a relationship, we never have sex, I'd still enjoy the company of the person long-term. That doesn't translate into lack of chemistry. I want both. But, for me, that still doesn't mean I'll feel a desire to sleep with a man right away. Interest, yes. Desire, no.
If you've spent 6 months beoming friends with someone, then having sex only tends to reinforce the belief that you're right for each other, even though you really don't know each as well as you think. The reason is what you said about not being able to open emotionally to someone before having sex. Really, at the end of six months of being friends and then having sex, you're no further along than had you just had sex the first week, because you can't really get to know someone until you open up completely. I think that explains your observation that your friends who waited until marriage for sex , were the ones who took the plunge too soon. Sex (i.e., the desire for it) prompted them to get married. The only successful (i.e. 20+ years) marriages that I know about where the couples waited until marriage are more like sexless friendships. I'm sure there are exceptions.
Going back to what I said before, I use the term "friends" loosely. Six months is a really long time. If I had that kind of time line, I have a feeling I'd hold different views. I would most likely find it easier to be intimate with someone before sex, and my partner and I would know each other in every way except sexually.
Or we would literally only be friends...not really dating, and what you said would be correct - introducing sex into the mix would be hazardous considering how little you'd truly know about the other person after an attachment has already been formed.
The only real difference between the sexual relationship(s) I'd like to find here and a ``real'' relationship, is that I'm willing to go along with the idea that it won't ever be anything more for the time being to avoid having to deal with the financial statement/background check/other red flag bullshit hassles and discussions in exchange for not promising anything more, even though I wouldn't rule something more than that out.
So, if I'm interpreting this right...
You don't expect anything from someone, so they won't expect anything from you, so that if said person does fall for you in the long run and you don't pass their basic life requirements (financially, emotionally, spiritually, whatever), they'll either have to break their own heart and move on or give up their requirements and settle? Instead of weeding you out to begin with? | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/28/2009 5:39:16 PM | well where did they learn about guys cause they make the nice guy they supposedly want their friend and ignore him and date the guy they say they don't want. even though they probly have more incomin with the nice guy and would be treated like a queen.   | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/28/2009 8:10:55 PM |
Even if I never had sex with a person I was dating, I wouldn't want to be forced to look at someone I found unattractive for the rest of my life.
Huh? Unless you're talking about remaining celibate the rest of your life, you are just rephrasing what I said.
But yes, because I'm not celibate, I look for someone I'm attracted to. But it's purely interest. Not desire. The desire comes from much more than physical attraction. I've gone out with attractive but boring, unintelligent, immature men who I never had the slightest desire to sleep with.
You're quibbling over semantics. Sexual interest/desire doesn't imply having sex and looks alone do not imply sexual interest, You are leaving the connection part out.
If "what" wasn't there from the start? Sex? Desire to have sex? Chemistry?
What's the difference between ``Chemistry,'' ``desire to have sex,'' and a ``connection?'' You're making a distinction without a difference.
Or we would literally only be friends...not really dating, and what you said would be correct - introducing sex into the mix would be hazardous considering how little you'd truly know about the other person after an attachment has already been formed.
So all you're really talking about when you say ``sex'' is the physical act? In that case, what difference does it make when you have sex? Everything you've listed as important you can also apparently separate from sex.
There's just too much to know, and, like you, it seems older men rarely talk about themselves.. That means I have to spend even longer trying to get to know the person!
The reason that I don't is that women NEVER ask. Try telling someone you're a nuclear physicist and see how far the conversation gets. I rely on knowing in depth what other people know about so that I can always talk about something at a level that makes it worthwhile to talk.
So, if I'm interpreting this right...
You don't expect anything from someone, so they won't expect anything from you, so that if said person does fall for you in the long run and you don't pass their basic life requirements (financially, emotionally, spiritually, whatever), they'll either have to break their own heart and move on or give up their requirements and settle? Instead of weeding you out to begin with?
Well, you do misunderstand it somewhat. As far as I'm concerned, as long as a woman is content knowing that she doesn't have to pay my way (or even her way to go out) and with having nothing else to do with my finances at this time, she can have anything else in terms of a relationship she wants. However, women are never content with just minding their own finances in a relationship involving more than casual sex, and not prepared to offer more financially than paying for going out, so I set my expectations where I thought appropriate to ensure that. So yes, she will have to choose between ``breaking her own heart'' and asking me to give up on the business I own, throwing away my education and getting a job in a cubicle, but in my opinion she has no business setting such a requirement in the first place. However, I'd rather set expectations for a relationship to zero than try to convince a woman that my finances are none of her business. I've been as honest as possible and in case this escaped your attention, every relationship that ends, does so because one or both parties fail to meet some requirement. I just happen to state up front which ones I won't meet.
So, the brief answer is that I've given her enough to weed me out from the start if that's what she chooses. If she changes her mind later, then yes, barring me making a fortune in the next five years, she's going to have to settle for minding her own money or move on if she falls for me. | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/28/2009 8:29:15 PM |
Many men DO want to get to know a woman and have a relationship...just because they want to have sex with you doesn't mean that's all they're after.
This was about the only thing in this thread that spoke to me personally. I have yet to meet a man that didn't want sex ~ and I don't think I know even ONE woman that doesn't want the same thing. It's a matter of when each person wants sex. If someone ONLY wants sex, it's pretty apparent (if memory serves me correctly.) If that doesn't work for both parties, don't indulge ~ pretty simple. 
Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
I want the lies. (I can't believe this is actually a question, but then again, people seem to amuse me more often than not.) Good grief ~ of course I want the truth, no matter how silly I think someone else's "truth" might be. JMO  | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/29/2009 9:09:52 AM | In my experience its neither. Women, like men, just want to make a connection - on many levels - including sex. I'm pretty sure it is not the topic for a first date so...just leave it out of the equation (and conversation) until life finds a happily appropriate moment for for sex.
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/31/2009 7:45:50 AM | I am around so many guys that are just into "another notch in the bed post" fun. I seriously don't get this, the risk of STDs is insane. Why not get to know someone first, instead of well lets just get off.
A lot of women become very attached to guys they sleep with. So why do it so fast, just to be hurt? Seems like a cycle of stupidity.
I have never seen the point of the bar or club scene. I've never been and probably never will. | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 1/31/2009 12:37:22 PM | | Um... I can't do the no strings thing. I've tried, doesn't work. I think if you are just looking for sex, you ought to put intimate encounter and contact people that want intimate encounters. Why do we want to be wined and dined? American culture has conditioned us to be that way. I'd say if you stick around a few more years, with the way the media is influencing children these days, there will be a large group of barely legal hoochies coming up real soon. | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 2/1/2009 10:20:09 AM | Yes......I want sex.......there, I've said it....... 
What is different for many of us, is that although I want sex, I do not want it from just anyone, or from everyone........
It is very true, that when I first meet you, that initial potential attraction also involves thinking of sex with you........Is there something wrong with that? It does not mean that I will "do" you just because you have a vagina.........
You have those that will "lay" anything, anytime, and anyone.........And you have those that get laid so seldom, that if someone will give it to them, they will take it.......
This is true for both genders, but, and this is a huge but, most women know that if they want to get laid, they can by just asking. Most men would like that opportunity, but it does not seem to work that way for many many men......
The wonderful thing for those of us that know the difference, is to find others that fit what we can do, are willing to do, and truly want to do......
I have always stated, and will continue to state, that for many of us, "getting laid" is easy, but getting laid by the right person, oh so much harder to accomplish......
Just my opinion........   | |
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| Do women want men to lie, or to be upfront about wanting sex?
Posted: 2/3/2009 9:20:52 AM | Cheers! I will agree with that! Here's to you, cDeacon.
Be honest, let us know.
But understand that the reasons as to how, when, why, and if are up to each of us.
Women and men are different, that is a given, so let us embrace those differences rather than fight about them.
To many women, me included, sex is an expression of love, not an act to take lightly.
To many men, sex is a goal. It can be achieved with or without that love connection.
THIS IS NOT a stereotype, there are exceptions to these and every other assumption. That is a given. I just use these two assumptions to avoid another lengthly debate.
All that really matters is that we comunicate the truth, that we are honest about what we are after........even to ourselves.
Peace. May we all find what we are looking for. | |
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