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 jebuspebus
Joined: 10/15/2008
Msg: 26
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Gaza MassacrePage 2 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
Despite the usual pro-western media half-truths, the recent events in Gaza are just a continuation of the Israeli expansion plan that's been on a roll since 1967.

Haaretz, the Pro-Israeli newspaper stated quite clearly that the recent attacks have been planned for over six months so right away, you know that the standard media response, 'Israel is responding to the recent Hamas rocket attacks' is false. Hamas have fired several rocket over a period of months, hardly a justification for the current massacre. They've done so because Israel hasn't been adhering to the Egyptian brokered ceasefire. Instead, they've simply continued to strangle Gaza and the occupied territories. Don't believe me, look at the middle-east press reports for the past year. Look at Amnesty's reports. There's plenty of evidence to support the Palestinian case. It just never gets presented in the Western media.

Before people criticize the Palestinians, you might want to consider the meaning of terms like 'occupied territories', 'terrorist'...etc. These terms have definitions. The 'occupation' of Palestine is illegal under international law and yet, see how easily the phrase rolls off the tongues of our politicians and news-readers.

It's sick.

See http://therealnews.com/t/ for unbiased reporting on the Israel/Palestinian case or better yet, read Norman Finklestein's 'Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict'.
 buffcoat
Joined: 8/8/2008
Msg: 27
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 9:45:36 AM
genocide

The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

to all the people that say the israeli`s are commiting genocide you should look up the meaning of it first.

hamas are and always will be terrorists that hide in civilian areas so when they are attacked they can win the support of idiots and other terrorists by saying they are killing civillians . hamas tend to use schools and hospitals for cover and use ambulances as troop carriers.

at the begining of december hamas ended an unoffical ceasefire and declared that israel was now a legitimate target. israel has put up with rocket attacks for the last few years and now wants to protect it citizens.

those of you on the forums that mention internet sites that supposedly tell the truth that dont actually tell the truth just like the papers and tv news if you want the truth get on a plane and go out there instead of sitting at home looking on the internet and watching tv then assuming you know it all.

hamas wanted to provoke israel into attacking them when they did hamas hid among the civillian population and then claimed that israel attacked civillians israel is doing its best not to cause civillian casualtys but in war they are unavoidable. the thing about terrorists is they will not fight a convetional war they are cowards who fire and flee usually into schools so that or hospitals so there attackers are unable to retaliate.

i say **** hamas kill the lot of them.
 garyzac
Joined: 9/25/2008
Msg: 28
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History
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 9:56:34 AM

Who do you think is responsible for such atrocities being committed in Gaza.


Hmmm..bit of a loaded question! It's a bit like saying who was responsible for the Nationalists' deaths in Ulster.

I don't consider Israel's actions in Gaza this week to be 'atrocities'. They are a measured response to a series of rocket attacks launched by Hamas.

The first task of any government is to protect its people.

Hamas does not recognise the state of Israel, yet Israel has indicated that it is prepared to negotiate with Hamas.

Also, Israel left many of the'occupied territories' , (gained when it was attacked in previous wars)....I'm not sure what else it can do.

Further, there are many Palestinian refugee camps in the region which lie on the borders of countries like Egypt, Jordan etc.....none of those countries will allow Palestinians to enter their country - I wonder why?
 restless_native
Joined: 12/17/2006
Msg: 29
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History
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 10:00:36 AM
the thing about terrorists is they will not fight a convetional war they are cowards who fire and flee usually into schools so that or hospitals so there attackers are unable to retaliate.


How exactly would Hamas fight a conventional war against Israel? They simply don't have the resources. If they had the arsenal at their disposal that Israel does they wouldn't need to adopt the tactics that they have so far.

Whichever way you look at it, this is hardly a fair fight.

It's wrong for Hamas to continue rocket attacks against civilian targets over the border. But, is the current action of Israel actually going to improve stability in the area in the long term or make matters worse by further increasing friction? I certainly can't see it all ending peacefully.

The only solution I can see to the current situation is for the UN to be sent in to effectively monitor a ceasefire. The first step has to be to stop the bloodshed on both sides. Then the process of actually finding a long term solution can begin.
 Gaz01
Joined: 3/19/2007
Msg: 30
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 10:25:23 AM

Well the big bloke actually gave the little homeless bloke said shed. Now the little bloke is moving into the garden and trying to take that over. Big bloke has had enough and is clearing out the shed, hope that works because if it doesn't he'll burn said shed down around his ears.


If thats how you see things then no point replying to you because you either like killing innocent people or you are blind.
 Gaz01
Joined: 3/19/2007
Msg: 31
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 10:28:59 AM

kill the lot of them.

Just one word for you. Animal
 SpeedBird1979
Joined: 6/19/2008
Msg: 32
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 10:33:00 AM

The only solution I can see to the current situation is for the UN to be sent in to effectively monitor a ceasefire.


What a shame they didn't step in to enforce their own partition plan, which probably would have avoided the current conflict.
 jebuspebus
Joined: 10/15/2008
Msg: 33
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History
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 10:36:16 AM
The only solution I can see to the current situation is for the UN to be sent in to effectively monitor a ceasefire. The first step has to be to stop the bloodshed on both sides. Then the process of actually finding a long term solution can begin.


I agree although given the US/Israeli contempt for the UN, I'd say it's unlikely to happen at least, without the help of massive popular movements. 'Is the current action going to improve stability?' - I'd say that's unlikely but then stability is not an objective for the US or Israeli governments. If it were, they'd have agreed to the two state system that was, and still is being proposed by the Arab League and was long supported by the PLO. It's also supported by the majority of Israeli and Palestinian citizens but then, the opinions of the population are not a consideration for Western governments or their middle-eastern clients.
 garyzac
Joined: 9/25/2008
Msg: 34
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History
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 10:38:38 AM

I feel killing of children just like I cannot tolerate be it israelis or Palestinian. What makes it worst the that the Israelis are commtting such terrorist acts against women and children.


And the Palestians never stoop to such levels?

In that case, this report from The Independent must be a complete fabrication!


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/children-killed-in-israel-suicide-bomb-609255.html

"And there were children among the dead, four of them. An eight-year-old boy, Ilan Friedman, was on the bus with his grandmother, 67. Both were killed. Two children aged 13 died. So did Michael Sharansky, 16, and his mother. Half of the 49 people wounded were younger than 18, hospital officials said."
 Gaz01
Joined: 3/19/2007
Msg: 35
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 10:41:27 AM


he systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

to all the people that say the israeli`s are commiting genocide you should look up the meaning of it first.

hamas are and always will be terrorists that hide in civilian areas so when they are attacked they can win the support of idiots and other terrorists by saying they are killing civillians . hamas tend to use schools and hospitals for cover and use ambulances as troop carriers.

at the begining of december hamas ended an unoffical ceasefire and declared that israel was now a legitimate target. israel has put up with rocket attacks for the last few years and now wants to protect it citizens.

those of you on the forums that mention internet sites that supposedly tell the truth that dont actually tell the truth just like the papers and tv news if you want the truth get on a plane and go out there instead of sitting at home looking on the internet and watching tv then assuming you know it all.

hamas wanted to provoke israel into attacking them when they did hamas hid among the civillian population and then claimed that israel attacked civillians israel is doing its best not to cause civillian casualtys but in war they are unavoidable. the thing about terrorists is they will not fight a convetional war they are cowards who fire and flee usually into schools so that or hospitals so there attackers are unable to retaliate.

i say **** hamas kill the lot of them.


I assume you live in Israel or you been in Hamas camps. I know from first hand condition on Gaza so stop making silly comments. Open your eyes and heart, I would feel the agony for Jewish kids too if they get slaughtered the way Palestinians are getting killed. Be brave and say come out of your closet.
 Gaz01
Joined: 3/19/2007
Msg: 36
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 10:45:14 AM

And the Palestians never stoop to such levels?

In that case, this report from The Independent must be a complete fabrication!


So Israelis can stoop that level too, is that your justification to kill people. Some people here are so evil.
 garyzac
Joined: 9/25/2008
Msg: 37
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History
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 10:48:47 AM

So Israelis can stoop that level too, is that your justification to kill people. Some people here are so evil.


At no point in my post did I state that I condone the killing of women and children. I was responding to your earlier post in which you lambasted the Israelis for killing women and children, yet failed to acknowledge that the Palestians are doing exactly the same.

I was merely pointing out your failure, that's all.

HTH
 jebuspebus
Joined: 10/15/2008
Msg: 38
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History
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 10:50:25 AM
Some people here are so evil.


I don't think it's 'evil', gaz01. It's a very standard Western blend of indoctrinated arrogance, ignorance and manufactured values. For example, people in the UK and the US tend to form their opinions (and corresponding values) of, say, the middle-eastern conflict from reading newspapers and watching the television news broadcasts, without having any real understanding of how those media institutions function. Just an understanding of the reliance upon advertising would clear away a lot of the smoke but people have more 'important' things to consider like, trying to sound erudite (usually by simply repeating official media nonsense) or other things like, shopping!

 Gaz01
Joined: 3/19/2007
Msg: 39
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 10:51:25 AM

At no point in my post did I state that I condone the killing of women and children. I was responding to your earlier post in which you lambasted the Israelis for killing women and children, yet failed to acknowledge that the Palestians are doing exactly the same.

I was merely pointing out your failure, that's all.


No where in my posts I said that, killing of Israelis is OK. I am talking about the current events unless I missed something?
 Netgeek34
Joined: 7/23/2004
Msg: 40
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 11:27:18 AM

Who do you think is responsible for such atrocities being committed in Gaza. Is it Israel or Hamas?


Both of them (along with the countries that supply them with arms) are as bad as each other really.
 NIGEL44
Joined: 11/21/2008
Msg: 41
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 11:38:44 AM

If thats how you see things then no point replying to you because you either like killing innocent people or you are blind.


Wrong on both counts.

I gave an analogy as I see it, someone used that in an attempt to make a valid argument and I replied again. I in my working life have had to deal first hand with the terrorist threat, domestic and foriegn, so maybe I can sympathise more with Israel than Hamas.
I have yet to condone the killing of innocents, be they non combatants of any sex or age. Unfortunately, tragically it happens.

As for those that say Israel is picking on a smaller nation, well that small country should do what we have done in the past when threatened by European powers from Napoleon, through the Kaiser's and Hitler's germany and on into the cold war. Form alliances.
Oh but who wants to be associated with a regime that is founded on terrorism funded by a country that is run by that most abhorent of things extremist religious fundamentalists who themselves have funded atrocities in other Muslim states because they are less fundamental.
 Loumoos
Joined: 12/14/2008
Msg: 42
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 11:40:33 AM
I am Jewish by religion, but not a practicing one. So kinda Atheist..

Anyway this has been going on since Biblical times, its all Moses fault


Seriously noones fault but their own proud stupid fanatical view points..
 rosso27
Joined: 6/6/2007
Msg: 43
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 11:45:33 AM
I'd say that's unlikely but then stability is not an objective for the US or Israeli governments. If it were, they'd have agreed to the two state system that was, and still is being proposed by the Arab League and was long supported by the PLO. It's also supported by the majority of Israeli and Palestinian citizens but then, the opinions of the population are not a consideration for Western governments or their middle-eastern clients


Given that you seem sure most Palestinians are in favour of a two-state solution obviously Hamas show that same disdain for their countrymen's opinions as do these 'Western Governments and their Middle East Clients' as it is their clear and unambiguous statement of purpose to destroy the Jewish State.

All they are saying is 'Give War a Chance......'
 buffcoat
Joined: 8/8/2008
Msg: 44
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 12:03:34 PM
How exactly would Hamas fight a conventional war against Israel? They simply don't have the resources. If they had the arsenal at their disposal that Israel does they wouldn't need to adopt the tactics that they have so far.

i said terrorists not just hamas and all terrorists are cowards anybody can fire a weapon and run off they should stand up and fight and they do have conventional weapons supplied by iran.

I assume you live in Israel or you been in Hamas camps. I know from first hand condition on Gaza so stop making silly comments. Open your eyes and heart, I would feel the agony for Jewish kids too if they get slaughtered the way Palestinians are getting killed. Be brave and say come out of your closet

i have been to gaza and israel the people in gaza dont even like hamas the people of gaza are now suffering because of terrorists that like to hide amongst civillians and my comment on kill them all was about hamas not the people of gaza. i have lived in dangerous places i have seen the death and carnage caused by both sides first hand and been injured myself both sides have killed civillians the only difference is israel try to target terrorists the terrorists target anybody.
 Gaz01
Joined: 3/19/2007
Msg: 45
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 12:14:35 PM

i have been to gaza and israel the people in gaza dont even like hamas the people of gaza are now suffering because of terrorists that like to hide amongst civillians and my comment on kill them all was about hamas not the people of gaza. i have lived in dangerous places i have seen the death and carnage caused by both sides first hand and been injured myself both sides have killed civillians the only difference is israel try to target terrorists the terrorists target anybody.


If they (Palestinian) don't like Hamas then why did you say kill them all. Obliviously you got your head twisted somewhere. You are contradicting yourself.
 garyzac
Joined: 9/25/2008
Msg: 46
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History
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 12:21:31 PM

If they (Palestinian) don't like Hamas then why did you say kill them all.


He didn't!

The poster was referring to Hamas, not all Palestinians, when he wrote:



i say **** hamas kill the lot of them.


Please read other posts carefully!
 buffcoat
Joined: 8/8/2008
Msg: 47
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 12:24:21 PM
If they (Palestinian) don't like Hamas then why did you say kill them all. Obliviously you got your head twisted somewhere. You are contradicting yourself

i said kill them all meaning hamas but if you think im twisted **** it nuke the ****ing lot of them nuke iran, iraq, afghanistan syria,russia ,france let the whole world burn and everybody will suffer whole citys destroyed every living thing on earth wiped out then all wars will be ended peace on earth
 matty40s
Joined: 10/17/2008
Msg: 48
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 12:35:55 PM
if the palestinians do not like Hamas , why are they the elected body for the region.Israel has been blockading the Palestinian settlements for months, not just since the present latest crisis escalated. The Americans will never say a bad word about the Israeli's and support the action,the rest of the world is calling for a ceasefire.
Why shouldn't the Palestinians have their own land and settlements??
 snazzycracker
Joined: 4/30/2008
Msg: 49
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 12:42:11 PM
unfortunately until the palestinians stop backing a terriorist group like hamas who are just in it for themselves they are never going to see a continued peace.
hamas are pretty much like the i.r.a. to us.they have an outdated claim to a country that was never really theirs in the first place.
palestine on wikipedia makes for some very interesting reading.its history is very long and complicated.they have pretty much been owned and run by every nation over the years.and they have no real claim to the country they call palestine.the majority of palestinians appear to have come from arabia in the first place,so i would guess they have less of a claim to the land than the israeli's who at least where promised the land by their god.and no the muslim or arab god did not also give it to the arabs/muslims/palestinians.
 garyzac
Joined: 9/25/2008
Msg: 50
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History
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 12:51:42 PM

if the palestinians do not like Hamas , why are they the elected body for the region.


According to Wiki:

"Of the Electoral Lists, Hamas received 44.45% and Fatah 41.43%[1] and of the Electoral Districts, Hamas party candidates received 41.73% and Fatah party candidates received 36.96%.[2]"

Hamas isn't as popular with the Palestinian voters as it might appear - they received less than half of the popular vote.


Israel has been blockading the Palestinian settlements for months, not just since the present latest crisis escalated.


There will never be a resolution to the conflict whilst Hamas remains in power, because it refuses to acknowledge the state of Israel.


Why shouldn't the Palestinians have their own land and settlements??


They do!
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