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 buffcoat
Joined: 8/8/2008
Msg: 51
Gaza MassacrePage 3 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
if the palestinians do not like Hamas , why are they the elected body for the region

they were elected and then instead of becoming more political they attacked fatah and took over using force the people of gaza dont support them because hamas is a radical party and has been infiltrated by radicals from other countrys who just want to cause casualtys in israel and if it means casulties on the palestinian side as well then they dont care.
 Geordie Colin
Joined: 8/25/2008
Msg: 52
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 1:26:15 PM
Gaza massacre

I'm in totall agreement.
I think it has been utterly appauling for decades now.
But for some time the press where nothing but possitive and encouraging about it.
Indeed they poured huge amounts of money into the cause without any consideration about the eventual effect they would later have.
If he had only stayed with Newcastle and shunned that move to Spurs then he would never have met Sheryle.
Jimmy (five bellies) Gardener would have been in a better possition to ring his mates to take them home from those night spots when things got too heavy.
The massacre he has endured since from the press and public has distroyed him.

Im sorry ive not read all of the posts in this thread.
Ive still got a few threads to catch up on!!
 Labdien!
Joined: 10/14/2007
Msg: 53
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 1:34:27 PM

The Americans will never say a bad word about the Israeli's


You're right there! America loves Israel because it’s the one nation in the Middle East they can trust to fight on their behalf in the event of things turning really nasty in that area. Why do you think that nuclear arms are effectively ‘banned’ to all other countries in the region apart from Israel? It all comes down to the fact that America is effectively run by Jews. Just look at the Senate, 13% of them are Jews. Look at the banking system…….. it’s run by Jews. The legal system? Run by Jews….. etc etc.


if the palestinians do not like Hamas , why are they the elected body for the region.


For much the same reason that Mugabe is still in power in Zimbabwe?


palestine on wikipedia makes for some very interesting reading


Wikipedia is largely make believe. It is written entirely by volunteer contributors who have no ‘editor’ to correct their many errors.

"An encyclopedia can't just have a small percentage of good entries and be considered a success. I would argue, in fact, that the overall quality of an encyclopedia is best judged by its weakest entries rather than its best. What's the worth of an unreliable reference work?" Nicholas Carr, Author


If a foreign power decided to invade the UK and force all of the existing population to move onto Anglesey………..Would you fight using whatever limited means you may have in order to get back your homeland?


Feckin’ right I would, who’d want to live on Anglesey?
 Loumoos
Joined: 12/14/2008
Msg: 54
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 2:59:26 PM
I almost misread this and thought wtf..

Gazza Massacre...

haha
 faithfey
Joined: 2/16/2008
Msg: 55
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 3:13:28 PM
"We want democracy, but only if you vote the way we want you to!"

I doubt many leading parties manage to obtain more than 50 % of the vote in any multi- party (more than 2) democracy. There are parallels here with the Irish being asked to "vote" again over the EU treaty, cos thety didn't vote the way they were "supposed to" first time out.

Democracy is all about sovereign nations selecting their own leaders and government. Honestly it really isn't up to us if the palestinians choose to vote in the monster raving loony party.

Not all Isreali citizens support the current actions, and there have been mass protests against what's happening in Gaza. A lot of Brits didn't want the Iraq war. Sadly that's what happens when in a democracy citizens make less than wise choices over who should rule them.

I personally remain convinced it's all about obtaining control of those recently discovered oil fields.

On a personal level it'll mean I take a closer look at my household energy consumption (inc food miles) as I think the price is becoming too high for our current fossil fuel based way of life. I don't want people blown to smithereens so I can eat strawberries in December, or drive a flashy 4x4. Hopefully if enough people feel like I do the "butterfly wing" effect will kick in and atrocities such as Iraq, Darfur and now Gaza will begin to fade into history.
 restless_native
Joined: 12/17/2006
Msg: 56
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 3:44:43 PM
hamas are pretty much like the i.r.a.


That's quite a useful parallel to draw in this situation. Remember all the years that the British government spent saying that would never deal with people who they perceived to be terrorists? However, in the end it wasn't military action that brought an end to the violence it was diplomacy.

The situation between Israel and Palestine is never going to be resolved with a clear victory for either side. The only way a long term peaceful solution will be found will be after compromises are made by both sides with neither having to lose face by actually having to concede defeat.
 Didj
Joined: 10/22/2008
Msg: 57
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/5/2009 3:59:51 PM

The situation between Israel and Palestine is never going to be resolved with a clear victory for either side. The only way a long term peaceful solution will be found will be after compromises are made by both sides with neither having to lose face by actually having to concede defeat.
How do they compromise here though? Israel wants to exist, and Hamas wants them wiped out of the Middle East.

Some people are thinking that the "second coming" will ease the tensions, but are we not still arguing over who was the last, Jesus or Mohammed (peace be with them).....

A terrible situation, IMHO
 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 58
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 4:03:39 AM
In any war zones bringing in international forces to restore the peace worked so I do not understand why Israel would not allow international forces into Palestinian zone ..

And I would also like to see Palestine recognised as a state, country etc.. so once it becomes a county would be easier for two counties governments to talk
 MrWuppy
Joined: 9/8/2007
Msg: 59
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 5:13:01 AM
Fellow forumites, you may not be aware of a confrontation developing today, the Iranians have dispatched a Red Crescent (equivalent of the Red Cross) vessel the MV Iran Shahad to Palestine with food medical supplies and doctors, to break Israel's blockade of Palestine, this could go one of three ways, 1. turned back by Israeli navy, 2. the blockade is broken and aid gets through, or 3. God forbid this happens, The Israeli navy sink the vessel.
The first 2 give Iran good propaganda, the third option may well lead to unthinkable consequences, Iran becomes millitarily involved, then the US etc....you can guess where that would lead...and it's due to arrive today, I just pray that common sense prevails.
I think that Palestine should be recognized as a state, not an enclave controlled by Hamas, but having said that, my feeling is that this running sore of inhumanity, regardless of rights or wrongs should be concluded, one way or other, in my opinion, before it really turns nasty.
 carpetsamples
Joined: 1/17/2006
Msg: 60
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History
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 5:30:32 AM
TO ALL YOU LEFT WING SANDAL WEARING TREE HUGGING ANTI ISRAELI BRIGAGE. WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THESE TERRIORISTS WERE BOMBING SOUTHERN ISRAEL CONTINUOUSLY FOR YEARS. YOU MAKE ME SICK WITH YOUR " OO THE POOR PALISTINIANS WOULDN'T HURT ANYONE"

ISRAEL GET IN THERE AND BOMB THE FCUK OUT OF THOSE TERRIORISTS AND KEEP ON BOMBING THEM UNTIL THERE'S NONE LEFT TO THREATEN YOUR BORDERS AGAIN.
 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 61
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 5:40:37 AM
The pictures are saying more than stupid words.. Here, a BBC video:

A word from the foreign doctor in Gaza is 801 children in Gaza this morning are either killed or injured and the hospital is running out of supply.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7813671.stm
 faithfey
Joined: 2/16/2008
Msg: 62
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:11:14 AM
I just feel that it's a real shame Europe & Russia wasn't willing to look within the belly of it's own anti-semitism at the end of the second world war and confront it head on rather than shipping the "problem" elsewhere.

Obama's recent statement on the issue has depressed me no end. He is not half the man his grandfather was, (incarcerated by the British as part of the Kenyan independence struggle). He has the influence to reign in American military funding. Just as the IRA became far less influential once US funding dried up, so should Isreal.

We need to nurture our brightest young minds to find a workable solution to peak oil FAST before we as a species bring about our own extinction.
 MrWuppy
Joined: 9/8/2007
Msg: 63
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:15:22 AM
Ref msg 62, Taffykev, seems like you got your wish,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7812547.stm
 carpetsamples
Joined: 1/17/2006
Msg: 64
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:22:53 AM
Mr Wuppy,

Why didn't you send me a thread a few months ago when these fanatics were bombing Israel. Go on tell me why? FUNNY THAT.

Tell you why mate , its because it's ok for Hamas or Hezbolah to bomb the fcuk out of Israel but when the Israeli's respond it's people like you and all the rest of the bleeding hearts who are the first to complain.

I re-iterate what I said and will stand by it.....ISRAEL, BOMB THESE FCUKERS UNTIL THEY CANT RESPOND NO MORE.
 faithfey
Joined: 2/16/2008
Msg: 65
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:27:06 AM
Interesting historical perspective for the view of one man's terrorist being another's freedom fighter.
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m50227&hd=&size=1&l=e

"9000 heavily equipped Nazis with artillery and tanks sought to destroy the Warsaw Ghetto warriors. It is a celebrated fact that 1000 militarily inexperienced Jews with little ammunition inspiringly rose up to resist and fight the Nazis. The amazing Jewish uprising helped to save many children who survive today as the holocaust survivors. The Palestinians, in their retort to the vicious occupation and siege on Gaza, much like their Jewish brothers, heroically resist in the same honour and bravery. But the cameras turn on, not when the Israeli Tank arrests the father or kills the daughter or demolishes the house, but when the Palestinian throws a stone at soldier. And he is called the terrorist."

The children - as a mother this hurts, espcecially when you realise the hosptitals are running out of meds.
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_29222.shtml
 restless_native
Joined: 12/17/2006
Msg: 66
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:42:49 AM
I re-iterate what I said and will stand by it.....ISRAEL, BOMB THESE FCUKERS UNTIL THEY CANT RESPOND NO MORE


Try saying it a third time. You never know. You might get lucky and find someone gullible enough to bite.
 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 67
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:43:25 AM
it's ok for Hamas or Hezbolah to bomb the fcuk out of Israel


Oh really? And they killed or injured 801 kids in one day?

Did you watch the BBC video posted above where the Western doctor says the victims of this massacre are mostly civilians

And who in this world or could kill civilians without being punished?
 carpetsamples
Joined: 1/17/2006
Msg: 68
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:45:12 AM
Faithfey,

I know all too well about the Warsaw uprising in 1944. I also know that despite what you think, Gaza was un-occupied for 3 years after the Israelis pulled out and left the Palistanians to govern themselves. Hamas was elected and despite a cease-fire continously hurled missiles at Southern Israel. They are supplied by Iran who are fighting the Israelis by proxy using the Palistanians to do their dirty work.
No self-respecting Government whatever you may think could tolerate this no more and I for one am so glad that the Israelis are hitting back and hitting back hard.

What would you want Israel to do. Just leave the Palistinians to carry on bombing Southern Israel. Once again its people like you and the rest of the bleeding hearts who drone on and on about Israeli aggression but where was your voice when dozens of Israelis were killed and maimed by these rockets which Hamas have launched since 2006.
 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 69
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:52:52 AM
What would you want Israel to do


Live the Palestinians alone
Let them have their own country and let the united nations help them with that
Have nothing to do with Palestinians, their state or their territory/land

Is this possible?

Israelies have no rights to arrest Palestinians in their own land, they are nobody's masters or police or authority, they do not own either Palestine or Palestinians, the times of slavery is long gone so I's say to Israelis to f***ck off the Palestinian land and leave these people alone, stop ruining their homes,. burning their olive trees, killing their people and stealing their land.

Israelis are doing to Palestinians the same what Hitler did to Jewish people.
 Loumoos
Joined: 12/14/2008
Msg: 70
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:59:23 AM
True in a way, but you can't stop these wars that have been going on since Ancient times, its all to do with Religion and religious wars never go away.

I would tend to agree, even being Jewish ( never been to Israel) and a full jew at that. Let them have their own land..

Both sides are to blame, no one side is ever to hold the bearing of it all. Think on that..
 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 71
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 7:04:03 AM
Both sides are to blame, no one side is ever to hold the bearing of it all. Think on that..


I do not agree, in case of Hitler it was only one side! And same now. Occupying other people's land is simply wrong, whoever is the occupier !

And my grandma was Jewish too.

Palestinian nationalism and extremism is caused by Israelis terror and the world doing nothing about it.

If anyone tries to come to my house and order me what to do and imprisons me I'd fight them to death and would never accept their position, who the hell they would be to tell me what to do?
 carpetsamples
Joined: 1/17/2006
Msg: 72
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 7:31:24 AM
Alma Mahler,

Although I profoundly disagree with your views, you have every right to whatever opinion you may hold and I for one will always respect that. However, that said, I do wish you would read some history and to get all of the facts about this conflict and why its still happening.

I'm not going to go into the reasons why I think your wrong suffice to say, please read some history. Tell me what you know about the British Occupaiton of Palastine re 1948,The Six Day War, The Yom Kippor War, The Lebonon invasion of 1982, The Interfada of 1996. Moshe Dayan, Golder Meir, Yasser Arafat. The Stern Gang.

Once you've read and absorbed the above then I guarantee you that whatever views you may have now you will have changed those anti Israeli views quite dramatically.
 Gaz01
Joined: 3/19/2007
Msg: 73
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 7:47:12 AM
Agree with you Alma. Shame it has to come to bloodshed before everyone realises how no we should talk. It will be too late for those who have lost their lives. What war does is, it creates more radicalism when people lose faith in justice they take law in their own hands. I am sorry but Israelis have crossed all its boundaries. I see no difference between Hamas and Isreal both are blood thirsty may Israelis are more so. As being a government one should act little more carefully and responsibly.
 Humbum
Joined: 1/3/2008
Msg: 74
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 7:54:49 AM
"Occupying other people's land is simply wrong, whoever is the occupier !"

Couldn't agree more...

The British created the state of Palestinian State in 1922 whereas the Kingdom of Israel traces back to 1000 BC.

Palestinians, decendents of the Phillistines were themselves interlopers from across the seas that the Egyptians allowed to settle in Gaza, Northern Egypt.

The Kingdom of Israel extended far beyond current day Israel including most of Lebanon, parts of Syria, Jordan and Egypt.

So to say the today's Israel has occupied Palestinian and other lands is bollox. The land was theirs in the begining.

Assumming Egypt is willing to grant sovereignty, then the Palestinian homeland is Gaza, and Israel would recognise that when they stop lobbing missles at them.

But that won't happen because the war over land is just the excuse for the real agenda, which is about a muslim war on Jews and Christians.

Oh and guess what ..... Judeaism and Christianity preceeds islam just as the Kingdom of Israel preceeds the State of Palestine.
 faithfey
Joined: 2/16/2008
Msg: 75
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 9:15:43 AM
^^^ so why did the Armenian & Russian Jewish settlers this century treat the indigineous (ethnic Arab) who already lived there + the African jews who tried to settle after the state of Isreal so appallingly? ^^^^^

Palestinian Christians are treated just as badly - many Christians, Muslims, and jewish palestians were lucky enough to have relatives overseas and have emmigrated )you have to be able to get an entry visa from a country willing to have you. My cousin works with both Christian and Jewish civil engineers in Saudi whose parents managed to get out in the 1950's. Only those whose parents/grandparents or other relatives had no connections still remain in the current hell hole.

A bomb doesn't distinguish between religious faiths - in that respect Isreal's treatment has truly embraced equal opportunities. As a Palestinian you have a equal right to be herded like cattle into a ghetto, denied food and medicine and blown up!
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