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 Buzzlightbeer
Joined: 6/2/2008
Msg: 101
Gaza MassacrePage 5 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

Gaza Massacre


It appears that Israel broke the ceasefire...if so that would make them the aggressor.

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians
 Cain23
Joined: 5/21/2008
Msg: 102
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 1:28:41 PM
Really? When the state of Israel was created in 1948 no-one wanted the land? When you say no-one aren't you forgetting the Palestinians that were living there already? The ones that had been fighting Zionist volunteers who assisted in the British conquest of Palestine leading to the 1920 Palestine riots? The ones that had been had been fighting the arbitrary tearing up of Palestine as proposed by the Balfour Declaration of 1917, made by British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour during World War I, several decades before the Holocaust even took place? I think perhaps you have been misinformed.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 103
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 1:37:19 PM
Don't you think though that should Hamas and other militant groups did not launch rockets daily into southern Israel and rhetoric of pushing Israel into the sea were not so routine that at some point the Palestinians would have some leverage globally when Israel is not seen as defending itself? A "help us to help you" scenario?

I feel so badly for Gazans but I wish they would look at Hamas and tell them that they are not helping the cause and lives of the common Palestinian. I agree that some accountability for the sad deaths of innocent Palestinians do lie with the rocket launchers.
 garyzac
Joined: 9/25/2008
Msg: 104
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 1:39:59 PM

It appears that Israel broke the ceasefire...if so that would make them the aggressor.


Yes it would, but further reading of that article reveals that Hamas was constructing tunnels into Israel. Hamas, as we all know, is a proscribed terrorist organisation, and the Israelis were quite correct in preventing these tunnels from being completed. The terrorists and the Israeli soldiers engaged in a fire-fight, and six terrorists were subsequently killed. The region is a better place for their deaths.

As is usual in these situations, the terrorists responded to this 'act of aggression' by Israel by shelling Israel indiscriminately. They demonstrated that they didn't care who was killed in those attacks, although we should be grateful that no-one appears to have been killed.

A Hamas spokesman said " We unreservedly aplogise for attempting to enter Israel territory via these tunnels in a bid to capture Israeli soldiers who were peacefully standing guard on its border".......er........hang on...that's not quite right.

In Gaza, a Hamas spokesman, Fawzi Barhoum, said the group had fired rockets out of Gaza as a "response to Israel's massive breach of the truce".

"The Israelis began this tension and they must pay an expensive price. They cannot leave us drowning in blood while they sleep soundly in their beds," he said.

How calming his words must be!


The 'collateral damage' to which you refer is children, the elderly, pregnant women, babies. Everyone who has lost someone is subsequently more radicalised, has more hatred of Israel and the west and is more inclined to take up arms.
What does it achieve?


'Collateral damage' isn't designed to achieve anything, because it is not intended to occur.


I was watching the news last night, watched a man who lost his wife and three children in an attack, kiss his dead son goodbye.


When he has a few moments to reflect, he should write to the Hamas leadership and request that they cease operations within civilian areas, because whilst the terrorist continue to use Palestinians as 'human shields', these deaths will continue.

Only today, two terrorists hid in a UN school and fired at Israeli tanks - more than 30 Palestinians appear to have died as a result of their cowardly action.
 Gaz01
Joined: 3/19/2007
Msg: 105
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 2:09:49 PM
Zeegary, where are those tunnels? You are hell bent on defending which you can't.
 SuSuSudio
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 106
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 2:44:05 PM
I'd have thought Gazza would have enough on his plate .
 Buzzlightbeer
Joined: 6/2/2008
Msg: 107
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 3:10:11 PM

Yes it would, but further reading of that article reveals that Hamas was constructing tunnels into Israel.


What tunnels? The Israelis claim 'a' 'tunnel' was being built.

There is no 'proof' of the tunnel's existence, and even if it did exist its purpose. There is 'proof' that Israel broke the ceasefire.


A Hamas spokesman said " We unreservedly aplogise for attempting to enter Israel territory via these tunnels in a bid to capture Israeli soldiers who were peacefully standing guard on its border".......er........hang on...that's not quite right.


Indeed that isn't quite right, it should be 'apologise' and 'err'.
 Gaz01
Joined: 3/19/2007
Msg: 108
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 3:19:08 PM
http://palestinian.ning.com/

just see it for yourself. Make your own mind up. Pic tells a 1000 words.
 garyzac
Joined: 9/25/2008
Msg: 109
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 3:31:10 PM
Zeegary, where are those tunnels?



The Israelis claim 'a' 'tunnel' was being built.


Why doubt them? The Times acknowledges that a similar event happened in 2006:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5089940.ece

"The Israeli military described the operation as a “pinpoint” raid to destroy a 250-metre tunnel that it said the hardline Palestinian movement was digging under the border to try to kidnap an Israeli soldier – as it did in the summer of 2006. "

Various other websites refer to the 'tunnel economy' operated by Palestinians:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i5SRlyeHhyb7GzcYxXtaATgJTwfwD95DUU9G0



There is no 'proof' of the tunnel's existence, and even if it did exist its purpose.


This statement makes no sense.



There is 'proof' that Israel broke the ceasefire.


Really? Where?



Indeed that isn't quite right, it should be 'apologise' and 'err'.


Why should it? 'Er' refers to "hesitation" - OED, and not as in "making an error"

 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 110
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 3:48:55 PM
No, IMO the only solution for FREE and independent Palestine are the international forces inside until their own government stability and Palestine becoming internationally recognised free country with its legal borders who nobody including Israel is not allowed to pass or control.

Re the fighters.. well someone has to fight for the independence of this country.. it will not be given to them on a plate, sadly it has to be the extremists and this is because the international bodies have failed so far in the normal diplomatic ways and are allowing Israel far too much..
 gezza64
Joined: 6/28/2008
Msg: 111
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 3:54:29 PM
hamas are wrong is it ok for them to fire rockets as they want i think not
 garyzac
Joined: 9/25/2008
Msg: 112
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 4:00:28 PM

No, IMO the only solution for FREE and independent Palestine are the international forces inside until their own government stability and Palestine becoming internationally recognised free country with its legal borders who nobody including Israel is not allowed to pass or control.


I've tried to make sense of this statement, but I need help!

Which 'international forces', and where are they currently 'inside'?

Also, I'm not sure why Palestinians need to be able to enter Israel......


Re the fighters.. well someone has to fight for the independence of this country.. it will not be given to them on a plate, sadly it has to be the extremists and this is because the international bodies have failed so far in the normal diplomatic ways and are allowing Israel far too much..


So electing to government a party (Hamas) which is a proscribed terrorist organisation, and which has sworn to remove the state of Israel, and which does so by shelling Israel's civilians is the best way to acquire international recognition?





 Buzzlightbeer
Joined: 6/2/2008
Msg: 113
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 4:32:31 PM
Really? Where?


Do keep up...both Hamas and the Israelis admitted the attack took place. That attack broke the ceasefire.


This statement makes no sense.


(OED) Purpose: the reason for which something is done or for which something exists.


Why should it?


Could you provide the link to 'Er' in the OED?

This is the link for 'Err':
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/err

Another useful link:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/err

The OED doesn't list "aplogise"...did you mean apologise?
 restless_native
Joined: 12/17/2006
Msg: 114
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 4:32:45 PM
The irony is that this thread has turned into a perfect example of why the problems in Gaza are so difficult to resolve. If people who actually have no real vested interest in the issues can argue so passionately about who is right and who is wrong it's hardly surprising that those who actually have lost family members in this conflict aren't willing to compromise to find a peaceful solution.
 Lothian Girly
Joined: 12/28/2008
Msg: 115
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 5:31:22 PM
Simply to the point restless native - well said.

Not sure , this may have already been said ( not read all the postings) Hamas are a terrorist organistaion - so is the Isreali GOVERMENT - difference , one is legally elected and the other is not - bad as each other, kick them both out quicky - suffering is happening on both sides.

I saw the picture of a father by the side of his dead young son, I saw grief, hurt, pain and loss in his face..............he was a father at that point........not a Palestinian or an Isreali
 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 116
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 5:37:58 PM
I saw the picture of a father by the side of his dead young son, I saw grief, hurt, pain and loss in his face..............he was a father at that point........not a Palestinian or an Isreali


My dad was a doctor and was an army doctor for a while.

I remember his letter where he said:

'I do not feel any of the fighting sides as 'mine' .. mine are only these poor people on both sides who suffer enormously and I am the happiest when I succeed to steal the food and toiletries from the Army and give it to these people to feed and clean themselves.'


Not sure , this may have already been said ( not read all the postings) Hamas are a terrorist organistaion - so is the Isreali GOVERMENT - difference , one is legally elected and the other is not - bad as each other, kick them both out quicky - suffering is happening on both sides.


Both are legally elected.. the only difference is that Palestine is not a country.. YET!
 Lothian Girly
Joined: 12/28/2008
Msg: 117
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 5:52:07 PM
I apologise for my incorrectness
 marcothebrave
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 118
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:04:26 PM
What is this whole thing about?

GREED! Man's inhumanity to man.

If these people, on both sides would learn that the attitude they have, if taken up by all humanity, would lead to the demise of the human race, we would all be better off.

HAMAA need to stop shelling Israel and Israel need to stop shelling HAMAS. I hear HAMAS are Iranian sponsored and the Iranian Prime Minister has previously been quoted as wanting to eliminate Israel!

That is no good. as is the Israeli retaliation. It takes a bigger man to walk away from a fight!
 stevencl
Joined: 6/19/2004
Msg: 119
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/6/2009 6:37:49 PM
i've been reading all the posts and thinking, why should we really care about who started it and what one country is doing whilst the other is doing something else. Do we not have enough problems on this island to contend with? Just a historical thought though - substitute Israel with England, and substitute Palestine with Scotland, Wales, Ireland, most of africa, north america, the Indian sub-continent parts of the far east and parts of the middle east. Now most of these countries fought back and took what was rightfully theirs and I don't hear anybody taking sides over this. What if Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland decided to take up arms to become independent nations and take back all that was taken from them by the English? would the same people on this forum say that the Scots et al. are terrorists and not have the right to do so?
Just food for thought
 jackjackt
Joined: 4/14/2007
Msg: 120
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Posted: 1/6/2009 10:39:31 PM
It sickens me just how silly and brainwashed the majority of you people are on here, maybe you should stop listening to the heavily biased BBC news and do some real research on unbiased websites on the internet.

Does this affect us? Yes it affects us all, were seeing the begining stages of a war which one day may be on our own doorstep, The US is has invaded Iraq and afghanistan and murdered at least 1 million iraqi's, it has shown agression towards syria only a few months ago when 8 syrians were killed after US forces were chasing so called "terrorists" into syria. Its made clear its intent off agression to Iran because of its so called nuclear weapons program.
Tension is being built up between india and pakistan after the Mumbia attacks, even though there is no proof pakistan was involved, and on the contary indian police force arrested one of its own countries secret service agents on suspicion of being involved.
And now israel is begining its destruction of whats left of palastine. Not to mention the US-china problems we will soon see when china wants the loans back from the US which it can not afford. Toppled togeather with a world wide depression on a scale never seen before i may sound a tad over the top but only to those of you who have no idea whats happening all over the world.

ALL OF THIS FROM "GLOBAL TERRORISM" WHICH ALL STEMED FROM 911, I THINK YOU PEOPLE SHOULD WAKE UP TO THE FACTS AND SEE HOW THIS WAR ON TERRORISM IS THE MAKING OF WORLD WAR 3 AND THE "NEW WORLD ORDER"

great films which will change ur perpective on things on google video
zeitgeist
wake up call remastered edition
911 mysteries
Terrorism is goverment made to take our rights and freedom away, call me what u will but if u look into it and watch the videos above u will be in agreeance with me.

Peace to all
 garyzac
Joined: 9/25/2008
Msg: 121
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Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/7/2009 1:18:13 AM

Do keep up...both Hamas and the Israelis admitted the attack took place.


Really?

I cannot find a single Hamas source that admits either that the incident occurred or that a tunnel actross the Israeli border lay at the centre of it.

Perhaps someone can supply a link to support the quoted statement?


That attack broke the ceasefire.


Not according to The Calgary Herald:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/editorials/Hamas+blame+trouble+Gaza/1119488/story.html

"Hamas itself also violated the ceasefire by continuing to smuggle weapons from Egypt and attempting to construct a tunnel across the border with Israel, undoubtedly with the aim of carrying out future attacks or kidnapping Israeli soldiers."



Could you provide the link to 'Er' in the OED?


No.

The word is listed in the Concise OED Tenth Edition, Revised, although anyone who HAD to look it up for the definition probably wouldn't understand that definition anyway!

Here's an example of someone spelling this simple word incorrectly:


Err...not really (IMO)..she tells one side of the story.


Classic!


It sickens me just how silly and brainwashed the majority of you people are on here, maybe you should stop listening to the heavily biased BBC news and do some real research on unbiased websites on the internet.


I would agree with you there, but the Beeb had several interviews on Tuesday night with various Israeli officials, although Paxman got his pants in a pandemonium with one guy who (correctly) blamed Hamas for the school deaths after hiding in, and firing from, the UN school.
 AlmaM
Joined: 3/20/2008
Msg: 122
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/7/2009 1:27:35 AM

Unwra spokesman Christopher Gunness said the agency was certain Hamas militants were not using its school to attack Israeli troops.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7814772.stm
 Gaz01
Joined: 3/19/2007
Msg: 123
Gaza Massacre
Posted: 1/7/2009 2:52:21 AM


I would agree with you there, but the Beeb had several interviews on Tuesday night with various Israeli officials, although Paxman got his pants in a pandemonium with one guy who (correctly) blamed Hamas for the school deaths after hiding in, and firing from, the UN school.


You know what it is easy and ready made statements. Israelis say that there were terrorist hiding or the school is where rocket fire was coming from, yet they fail to provide evidence. Lies upon lies to legitimise there evil acts, UN school was one such incident sheltering women and children who fled their houses.

We had Bush admiting before leaving office that there were no chemical weapons in Iraq. Intelligence Services got it wrong. Israel is following the same foot steps trying to justify mass murder but quite frankly no one will believe them. Its blind followers of Israeli's crimes can go on and on and try to justify such acts which you quite clearly can't. You either think it legimate to kill innocent or you are toally insane in love of Israel. No one says Hamas is great but what Israel is doing is perhaps ten times as much brutal as Hamas if not more.
 restless_native
Joined: 12/17/2006
Msg: 124
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Posted: 1/7/2009 3:51:53 AM
Israel have taken a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. The only problem is that they seem to be having difficulty in actually finding the walnut so while they've got the sledgehammer out they may as well tw@t everything else in sight.

I think that's it in a nutshell.
 carpetsamples
Joined: 1/17/2006
Msg: 125
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Posted: 1/7/2009 4:01:41 AM
GAZ01 AND RESTLESS NATIVE.

Those poor poor Palistanians do no harm whatsoever do they. Terrorists never hide in schools or mosques do they. Those dastardly evil Israelis are always lying. Well they always do dont they. For God's sake lads get a grip will you and wake up and smell the coffee. Hamas couldn't give two fcuks about civillian casualties infact the more the better for them and their perverted and twisted cause.

Like I said earlier and I WILL KEEP ON SAYING IT. ISRAEL SHOULD KEEP ON BOMBING AND KILLING AS MANY OF THESE HAMAS TERRORISTS AS IT CAN.

Civillian deaths are of course saddening and regrettable and I wish that wasn't the case but when Hamas keep on using the civillian population as pawns and as human shields then these deaths will occur.
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