| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 1:25:59 PM | I keep returning to this thread and continue to think about all this.
IMO, anybody who claims they are "prochoice" but reacts with anger, disgust etc. to this incident is not really pro-choice at all.
SARL | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 1:27:42 PM | Kirota--after war and peace in a previous thread, I'm happy to contribute to this one.
I have a friend whom I've known since high school. Since she was 16, she's been as this like I've been at baseball. The worst part of this is, she has 3 kids who have no clue of whom their real fathers are. Unfortunately, this has become her favorite pasttime. She also has a pensity for crying on my shoulder after this happens.
Well, I'll just say that after a while, this makes you want to hit her with a book (any school textbook will do). So, I've learned to stop being annoyed by pestulence like this.
I do understand how you feel. I confess that I would like to meet someone who I can marry and have kids of our own with. So, needless to say, she has never fit that possibility.
"Wtf" is the perfect response. And I second it...WTF | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 1:30:07 PM | ^^^
maybe there is a difference between being 'pro-choice' and 'pro-abortion'?
i.e. supportiveof the CHOICE if necessary..but not as a form for people too lazy or careless to use birth control
would it be cool to you if she had 50 abortions? 100?
'pro-choice' is really chosen to sound better then 'pro-abortion'
just like 'anti-choice' vs. 'pro-life' wording, depending on where you stand on the issue.
why not let people just kill their kids if they become inconvenient? | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 1:32:40 PM |
SARL: IMO, anybody who claims they are "prochoice" but reacts with anger, disgust etc. to this incident is not really pro-choice at all.
I don't claim I am prochoice.......I am prochoice.
But I am not for abusing those rights granted to me.
Women that use abortions repeatedly as a form of birth control.....only give ammunition to those that want to take away that choice.
And I have every right to be angry about it. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 1:36:25 PM | Danz..........thank you for the great reply.
IMO, anybody who claims they are "prochoice" but reacts with anger, disgust etc. to this incident is not really pro-choice at all.
I'm not mad or disgusted she had an abortion.........I have accompanied 4 of my very best friends to get one.........What I am angry about is the fact that she chooses to use it as a form of birth control. Read my posts......
So, if I get angry for a drunk driver getting three DWI's and killing someone on the path to the 4th does that make me anti drinking? Or does it make me angry that people are not responsible enough to learn from their actions? Don't try to twist my emotions into making me some prolife person. If the truth be told I think abortion is some cases is a blessing for all involved...........just not because the person continues to make the same mistake knowing that it can be dealt with and they are able to make the same mistake over and over. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 1:55:12 PM | | do you have her number she sounds easy...kidding...no that is disgusting for about 20 reasons. I hope someday she tries to have kids and cant then is anguished her whole life that she couldnt have children because of all the abortions she had ....that would be karma in full effect I think. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 1:57:26 PM | *Women that use abortions repeatedly as a form of birth control.....only give ammunition to those that want to take away that choice.*
Sound like the OP's post gave you ammunition to get angry enough that you would consider taking away the "choice" from people who keep making bad choices.
What about the doctors, nurses and counsellors who work in abortion clinics and who also helped allow this particular chain of events to happen and keep happening?
SARL | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 1:58:53 PM | As another posted, I also wonder if your chain was being yanked. If so, it worked...
Regardless of the subject at hand, I find it hard to believe that someone would divulge this so readily if it were true. Also, I think it's quite rare to have had that many abortions in the U.S. - this is more likely in nations where they're enforced, such as Russia and China.
Personally, I wouldn't have walked out over this, though, assuming she has some severe jaw-flapping disorder and was telling the truth, yeah, it bothers me, too.
OTOH, it beats the heck out of her having had 8 unwanted children. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:02:55 PM | What a Person you have posted about Op...
Mistakes happen. Some when there young might not understand reproduction and how it can happen to them. You'd think maybe once even twice WTF?? 8 times??
That person might be a different person now if that was in her say 5-10 year ago past. But if that last # 8 happened just say 6 months or 1 year ago.
She has troubles meeting people?? How could that be when she got knocked up 8 times?? | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:04:47 PM |
Sound like the OP's post gave you ammunition to get angry enough that you would consider taking away the "choice" from people who keep making bad choices.
Good Lord SARL......how did u deduce that?
There are no lines to read between in my posts.....so please stop trying to do so.
No where does it say this woman used the same clinic each time......so without that information......there is no way to condemn them.
My point......is there are many people out there trying to take the choice away from us.
And women that have 8 abortions as a means of birth control only.......give fuel to this already heated arguement going on in our courts. And that angers me because people that abuse our rights.....are usually the reason they are taken from us.
Was that so very hard to understand in my first post? | |
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Ninki
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Joined: 4/11/2005
Msg: 36 | |
| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:08:25 PM | Kirota, I agree that abortion should not be a form of birth control. I'm pro-choice also, but I know (not from personal experience, but through others) that having an abortion is a very traumatic experience. Why would any woman want to risk having to go through that a second time, never mind eight times? I think I would have walked away from her, too.
N. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:09:24 PM |
I will say that if we had been out at night in a club or something and she told me that I would have beat the hell out of her.........not just for what she did, but her "so what" way of talking about it.
Wow! Kirota you are a really angry and aggressive person who honestly thinks you are more enlightened and virtuous than the woman who had 8 abortions. You are more out to lunch than she is!
A sensible person would have realized immediately that the woman having lunch with you has a lot of problems to be engaging in such behaviour and that she probably needs compassion, education and help - not a beating. Or maybe the beating is your redneck method of education.
I feel sorry for the woman who had 8 abortions, not only has she been failed utterly by the medical community who should have given her some guidance, but now she has virtual strangers wanting to beat her up.
Get off your high horse and do something useful for a change - your piety is sickening. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:17:23 PM | | Growing up in city that has and has one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the country, most of the girls wind up pregnant and getting abortion because of being poorly educated, I know two girls that have had between 4 and 5 abortions and had every intention of keeping there babies at one point or another but somethings just don't work out that way, not everyone can keep a baby or even deal with being pregnant, and too her candidness after having getting rid of a piece of her self so many times is bound to leave some emotional scarring so maybe her candidness is the way she learned to cope with her misguided ways in her youth. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:17:35 PM | | I think you have every right to be angry and disgusted at the woman's attitude and past actions. Good for you for walking out. I am also pro choice [and had to make that decision ONE TIME many years ago, my daughter is now 25] but that does not mean using abortion as a form of birth control is okay. That woman obviously has mental health issues. And if your co-worker has the same feelings as her friend, I would not want to associate with her either. I have stopped being friends with people over issues that were very important to me. If I don't respect you, why would I want to spend my time with you? I am supportive and open minded, not co-dependent and a door mat. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:19:26 PM | *sigh*.. um still waiting to hear what the "serious sexual question" is....
This seems to be more of a moral/ethical debate in which you are
questioning weather your coworker is meritous of continued friendship based upon her friends “abortion as birth control” behavior in the past.....
Quiet predictably, this post has morphed into an heated abortion debate and how many is to many.. eg:
I think as soon as the child is conceived, it's no longer just "her body"...it's another's (the child's), and that abortion should not be used as a form of birth control. That's what I think
Abortion being used as repeated birth control......just shouldn't even be allowed
The albeit staggering number of abortions this woman has had, has been mitigated by your “over the top” reaction of revulsion and anger to the extent that you wanted to
“throw a glass of water in her face” …. huh?!
and your admission:
I will say that if we had been out at night in a club or something and she told me that I would have beat the hell out of her.........not just for what she did, but her "so what" way of talking about it.
That is the really disturbing on so many levels that your anger is that out of control.
I’m neither defending nor condemning this woman as I have no idea ( neither do you) what led her to her decisions.. abuse/rape/mental illness/substance abuse/emotional issues etc..... I do know also that there are countless children born to drug addicted/ mentally ill irresponsible mothers who inflict horrific emotional/physical/sexual abuse on kid after kid that the don't want and cant care for or love..
Few can claim they have not done done things to greater or lessor extents in their past which in hindsight they now regret…Indeed, her cavalier attitude is unnerving but since you do not know her history, you would have done well to not react in such a vitriolic manner and instead try to know a bit more about her before surrendering such a harsh judgement on both her and your friend...
The fact that you would contemplate dissolving an established friendship due to her association with this woman is equally as startling and unfortunate... | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:25:29 PM | Ms Micki...how did the woman in question abuse everybody's rights if it is her right to choose to have an abortion? and two? and three? and eight? Legislation puts no limits on the number of abortions a woman is allowed.
And if you feel that people are trying to take the choice away from the collective "you", then you need to keep advocating for the right to choose. And, as I see it, advocating for the right to choose doesn't come with disclaimers attached.
People make mistakes and keep on making mistakes and thank the goddess there is legislation in place to help them out. But, going back to my comment about doctors, nurses and counsellors working to ensure that the mistakes don't keep being repeated, each new clinic would need to know the patient's medical history and perhaps counsel a patient so that these "mistakes" stopped happening.
SARL | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:46:34 PM |
Wow! Kirota you are a really angry and aggressive person who honestly thinks you are more enlightened and virtuous than the woman who had 8 abortions. You are more out to lunch than she is!
A sensible person would have realized immediately that the woman having lunch with you has a lot of problems to be engaging in such behaviour and that she probably needs compassion, education and help - not a beating. Or maybe the beating is your redneck method of education.
I feel sorry for the woman who had 8 abortions, not only has she been failed utterly by the medical community who should have given her some guidance, but now she has virtual strangers wanting to beat her up.
Get off your high horse and do something useful for a change - your piety is sickening.
Where did I say I was more virtuous? Don't put words in my mouth. I was the one sitting at that table listening to her. I was the one that saw her "oh well" attitude towards it like it was something everyone does. Like a fad or something. She point blank said she didn't practice safe sex but does now..........which leads me to believe she at least learned something and is probably safe now..........but that still doesn't take away the cold manner in which saw having 8 abortions as something everybody is doing. BTW, if I had wanted to beat her up I would have done it at lunch............just because I was mad enough doesn't mean I would have.
Just because she chooses to use abortion as birth control doesn't mean that I have to choose to think it is okay for any reason. Where would I even be considered a redneck.........do you even know what it is?
If you want to be friends with her I'm sure I can get you her number.........maybe the two of you have a lot in common and that is why you are trying to tell me that I need to be understanding and loving for someone that doesn't know what causes pregnancy and how to keep it from happening 8 times.
As for Doctors and Nurses..........who in today's society does not know what causes pregnancy and how to prevent it. I guess they must think those trojan commercials are advertisements for sexy water balloons. Don't put a woman's bad judgment as a failure on the medical community.
A sensible person would have realized immediately that the woman having lunch with you has a lot of problems to be engaging in such behaviour and that she probably needs compassion, education and help
So, if I ate lunch with a man that confesses rape to me should I do the same. Because I would think that the man I am having lunch with has a lot of problems to be engaging in such behavior and that he probably needs compassion and education and help? | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:50:30 PM | IMO, anybody who claims they are "prochoice" but reacts with anger, disgust etc. to this incident is not really pro-choice at all.
Wrong.
I'm ProChoice.
I'm also not a fan of abortion.
It's funny how things aren't always black and white, isn't it?
Kirota,
I'm thinking it's not a coincidence that someone who would have 8 abortions would talk about it so casually with a stranger. She obviously has no respect for the unborn, so what's to stop her from having 20 abortions? Out of sight, out of mind.
Unfortunately, to preserve freedom for everyone, we have to tolerate the ones who we think may be taking advantage of that freedom.
Just like I have to live with the existence of the KKK and their use of free speech.
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:50:31 PM | Ya, you should get 1-free abortion because accidents always happen.
Maybe even 2...
Any more than that though, the person should be fined for negligence or something...
That's an absurd amount of abortions.
Absolutely foul. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:57:12 PM | We were drinking and playing cards. Then I went to bed. While she thought I was sleeping I heard her tell her girfriend that she just had "another" abortion. I didn't even know she murdered one of my babies let alone more than one of them.
I took the next day off work. While she was at work I stayed home, packed all of her clothes and stuff into garbage bags and tossed them by the dumpster. Then I removed the deadbolts off the doors, took them to Home Depot and had them re-keyed so she couldn't get into the apartment.
She came pounding on the door screaming and yelling. I ignored her. Then she kept calling and leaving messages on my answering machine, so I just had my phone number changed.
I prefer not to associate with murderers, let alone live with them. I haven't spoken to her since then. I don't think that I owed her any explanation. In my mind she is a baby murderer and therefore she is the lowest form of scum on the Earth. It is simply impossible to reason with insane sociopaths who think that purposefully murdering babies is somehow morally acceptable behaviour. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:57:52 PM | SARL....Did u ever think maybe it is because I do advocate that is the reason this makes me angry?
I don't put myself into danger by being an advocate......so some skank can go around having as much unprotected sex as she wants....and use abortion as a means of birth control to fix her mistakes. The clinics.......only know as much as one tells them.
One is not required to bring their medical history with them.....only fill out a form giving out what information they feel like giving out.
I do not want this thread to become a battle of ProChoice vs ProLife.....
But I do have a right to be angry about the abuse of this right I fight very hard for. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 2:58:23 PM | | I would never ever abort an unwanted pregnancy. Getting preganant unexpectedly would scare the hell out of me, shame me, seperate me from my family but I waould carry that baby to term and love it and be a wonderful mother to it. Never could I see the right in it... JMO | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/13/2009 3:10:38 PM |
If you want to be friends with her I'm sure I can get you her number.........maybe the two of you have a lot in common and that is why you are trying to tell me that I need to be understanding and loving for someone that doesn't know what causes pregnancy and how to keep it from happening 8 times.
Ah, Kirota, still steaming mad I see. Why don't you get her number for me? I would love to talk to her and find out what kind of life she's lead. See what other kinds damaging behaviours she engages in and offer her the advice and understanding that she so odviously needs (hence the inappropriate disclosure) and disguises with a casual "whatever" attitude (a disguise that clearly had you fooled).
As to your other comment about having lunch with a rapist, you'd have to be more specific - is this a convicted rapist who has served their time and received conselling or this a crime that is being confessed to me in which case I have a duty to report it? Again no beatings or angry tirades, just sensible responses to the stimulous at hand.
No one is saying that you have to like everyone you encounter in the world, but coming on the internet and slamming this woman and making threatening remarks makes you look a fool. | |
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