| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 12:58:16 PM |
What do others think........am I just being prudish or would other handle it better than I did?
Those are two separate questions. Whether you are prudish or not is irrelevant. You could have handled it better. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 1:53:09 PM |
And quite predictably, all the looneys came out ranting about abortion, slatherin on about how abortion is murder..another claiming the 8 abortions represented murdering someone else's baby 8 times blah blah......and other psychotic rants..
Thank you for single-handedly showing why so many people perceive pro-choice advocates to be rude, obnoxious, intolerant "looneys."
What you (and other people) seem to be missing is that the pro-choice ideal is NOT about whether or not abortion is murder, and it's NOT about berating people who think that it is. It's about realizing that no one (not even you, sepia) knows for sure, and the debate is much too closely linked to religion for the government to make a logical case for or against it without stepping all over "separation of church and state." So, if they government can't make a law against it, who can tell a woman what to believe? No one. Only her judgment matters.
Of course it's going to piss pro-lifers off. Because, in their eyes it's MURDER! And not just murder, but the murder of BABIES. Hell, it pisses me off, and I'm pro-choice! I wish it never would have been an option, never started so many years ago, so a stance wouldn't have needed to be made. I wish adoption was the preferred method of handling an unwanted child. But what can you do about it? | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 2:15:52 PM | OP Was she from another country? I know for a fact that before it got westernized (ie; more stuff for this purpose was available) that in Russia that was standard practice as a form of birth control for many years. I think some of the other countries too. Abortion was paid for by the social services over there so many women used it as a form of birth control. I agree with you that here is the states and anywhere else that birth control is readily available there should be no thought of this as a birth control method.
Bob | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 2:19:39 PM | This is the problem, OP.
You can't be a little bit "pro choice". How many abortions are ok? If one is ok, if two is ok - why not eight?
Hopefully, the pro-choice argument is devoid of emotional kneejerk words like murder.
I think you reacted on an emotional level, not a logical one. And I think you were also being judgemental.
NOW: you can be judgemental about this woman's morals, but not involve a pro-choice argument in it.
You can disapprove of her carelessness, of her lack of responsibility towards her body - but not of how many abortions she's had.
Not if you call yourself pro-choice. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 2:23:10 PM | Once... MAYBE twice, I can understand. Sometimes, things happen beyond your control.
But 8 times? That's simply not caring about your actions, and a complete lack of responsibility on a person's. At least she get some sense, late as it may have been. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 2:29:22 PM | This is the problem, OP.
You can't be a little bit "pro choice". How many abortions are ok? If one is ok, if two is ok - why not eight?
Hopefully, the pro-choice argument is devoid of emotional kneejerk words like murder.
hmm, but why support only some choices, not others?
if I read you correctly you are 'pro-choice' on abortions..but in other threads you are 'anti-choice' about women being prostitutes..
can you be 'pro-choice' on some matters and not on others?
If you're OK with women 'terminating' (see, I didn't say 'killing' or 'murdering') the growing life inside of them, why are you against their choice to be prostitutes? (if I am right about your stance? )
Once again I think Lonestar pretty much nailed it..even being pro-choice she can UNDERSTAND why other people might be upset/offended..a goal for us all..understanding..
in any event I disagree..'pro-choice' might not = 'pro=abortion'
i.e. you can understand a "mistake" or 2..but if she was deadset against becoming pregnant, there are so many BC choices available ..no-one make "8 mistakes" ..really
VVV
re: Post below..that's why you shouldn't listen to many people..I think that loudmouth who opposed adoption needed/needs a good bytch-slappin'..
VVVVVVv | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 2:30:29 PM |
I can't believe there are people out there who are anti-adoption. I totally believe what you've written, but wow! how can you advocate that abortion is always more desirable than an adoption of a baby by a loving couple?
I continue to be amazed and dismayed by the world we live in.....
and you're right. someone will always have a problem. go figure, huh? .
I had a friend who gave her son up for adoption. She was about 8 months along, and I was talking to her about how selfless I thought she was being and whatnot, and this woman who was an acquaintance of ours interrupted us and said, "If you were really selfless, you would have had an abortion instead of selling your baby!" We just kind of looked at her, because I can honestly say I'd NEVER heard anyone say that before...(not to mention there was no "selling" involved.)
So she went on and on about all the emotional trauma she was putting her baby through by going through an adoption, and the long lasting devastation her son would have when he realized he was adopted and that adoption was just a pathetic form of birth control, and on and on and on....to my friend , 9 months pregnant, who was preparing to do the hardest thing she's ever done in her life....
I was speechless. And I'm NEVER speechless.
She also claimed to be "pro-choice." Bullsh*t. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 2:36:03 PM |
This is the problem, OP.
You can't be a little bit "pro choice". How many abortions are ok? If one is ok, if two is ok - why not eight?
Hopefully, the pro-choice argument is devoid of emotional kneejerk words like murder.
I think you reacted on an emotional level, not a logical one. And I think you were also being judgemental.
NOW: you can be judgemental about this woman's morals, but not involve a pro-choice argument in it.
You can disapprove of her carelessness, of her lack of responsibility towards her body - but not of how many abortions she's had.
Not if you call yourself pro-choice.
The number of abortions is in reference to abortion being a form of birth control.........not about abortion in general.
So let me get this straight........even though this was not the topic of the question.
I have to be pro-life because I don't think abortions should be used as a form of birth control. Yet, I agree that women have the choice to abort if they want. Where do I fit in if I am not pro-choice? Is there a group that is out there somewhere that feels it is a woman's right to take care of an unwanted pregnancy because a mistake was made, yet I don't think they should be allowed to keep using abortion to deal with pregnancy instead of going to the store and getting condoms or the pill? I can't be pro-life either because I can promise you that if my daughter ever came home at 16 pregnant I would try to get her to abort. I think the choice needs to be there...........but to abuse that choice that many had to fight for to get by getting pregnant over and over and aborting than to just use a condom is not right. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 2:40:50 PM |
I can't be pro-life either because I can promise you that if my daughter ever came home at 16 pregnant I would try to get her to abort.
Ironically, that threw your pro-choiceness out the window! | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 2:49:30 PM | Lonestarstar.........how did the throw my pro-choice thinking out the window. I said I would TRY.........I didn't say I would make her. That to me is a big difference...........very very big difference. I would try to talk anyone about other options not to abort, such as adoption and such, but I know that at 16 a young mother is not as informed to deal with the expense, time, and devotion it takes to care for a baby yet they think they can keep them instead of adoption. Every woman's situation is different.........hence the choice is theirs.
Aside from the moral issues, using abortion as a form of birth control can seriously hurt your chances of carrying a baby full-term. The body becomes used to ejecting the fetus at a certain size, from what I understand.
Look, OP, I feel the same way as you. I am definitely pro-choice, but is lazy and inexcusable to continually get pregnant when you have no desire to carry full-term.
Interestingly, once I met a woman in similar circumstances to your lunch. She announced to me she only slept with married men. I had to leave the table. She disgusted me.
The the individual that posted this...........you said this in one post and then criticized me in another.......very very confusing. Did you forget you had already posted? | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 2:49:36 PM |
I miss read your first post..........for that I will apologize....but acting like I sent you some kind of mean email makes you look like a total drama queen. I would think that 8 abortions would upset someone more than an email asking a question........but please feel to get crazy and pissed over an email asking all the while telling me I shouldn't have gotten upset over a woman telling me she had 8 abortions. You don't have any right to tell me how I should feel.............ever. Yes, I could have sat and listened to her and not left the table........but telling me I shouldn't feel anger is not your place............
Get a grip kirota.... when did I assert that you had no right to feel angry? Newsflash: "Rational” people realize that there is a line between "feeling angry/emotional over something said that offends your personal value system… and becoming so irate declaring you "would beat her up" if she said that in a club...
again wtf...
And um ...Don't bother apologizing for falsely accusing me of some ***I did not say then calling me a drama queen for calling you out in it....
lmfao@ you calling someone crazy- a woman who admittedly contemplated an assault on a woman whose moral stance conflicts with your own....
Again,you have something to say? confine it here in the forum, period..The fact that you felt compelled to email me about your forum rant is odd and disturbing in itself.. Take it elsewhere...
bottom line- If you were not so hell bent in attack mode with your obvious anger issues
you would have been able to coherently read what I said in the first place..before trying to confront me on a non-issue via email..
Oh yeah what was that "serious sexual question" ?
oh thats right.. there was none!
*flush*
Re: lonestar
Thank you for single-handedly showing why so many people perceive pro-choice advocates to be rude, obnoxious, intolerant "looneys."
What you (and other people) seem to be missing is that the pro-choice ideal is NOT about whether or not abortion is murder, and it's NOT about berating people who think that it is. It's about realizing that no one (not even you, sepia) knows for sure, and the debate is much too closely linked to religion for the government to make a logical case for or against it without stepping all over "separation of church and state." So, if they government can't make a law against it, who can tell a woman what to believe? No one. Only her judgment matters.
Yeah blah blah blah..stupid assumptions much?
Let me dumb it down even for you lonestar....
First off, don't try to ASSume what side I am on as I never spoke on that ok?....
The abortion debate room is down the hall to your left....you may want to get on your soapbox there..
Honestly, I don’t give a rats ass who is pro or con on this issue ok? loony is loony no matter your background/inclinations: dem or repub/ religious or atheist/ black or white...
Anyone saying that a women who had 8 abortions is the same as "killing someone else’s kid 8 time " is looney
Anyone who stated that the OP should have indeed “beaten this woman” or gave her an “upper cut” is LOONEY.. with other assorted vitriolic flame throwers
But maybe in your world that’s par for the course.. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 2:49:40 PM | I think this is the problem with the term "pro-choice"; it's also why I have a bit of a problem with women who are militant "abortion activists" or whatever.
Almost everyone is "pro-life," insofar as most agree that ideally no woman would ever be in a position where she felt that terminating a pregnancy was her only/best option. The thing is, abortion has existed for a really, really long time. Even if it were suddenly a criminal act to abort a child, there would still be rape victims, women in desperate straits, and people willing to provide a service. Whether we like it or not, abortions will happen whether they're legally/morally right or not.
Considering that, it's difficult to say "criminalize them." Criminalization means deregulation. Deregulation means that women (who will be getting abortions anyway) end up trusting people who have no certification to be performing the procedure, who do their work in unsanitary conditions, who can do irreversible harm and suffer no consequences.
Abuse of "a woman's right to choose," is inevitable...but it doesn't mean that those of us who are (largely by default) "pro-choice" must support such abuses. While I can't sympathize with the OP's anger, since I don't tend to have passionate reactions to other people's f-cked up decisions, I can certainly understand her disgust and I don't think she's a hypocrite for feeling the way she does. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 2:54:30 PM | No, OP, I may be middle-aged, but my short-term memory is still intact!
It is lazy and inexcusable to use abortion as a form of birth control.
I wasn't criticizing you; I was saying your argument is wandering into dangerous territory.
You - and I - are judging this woman on her choices in contraception. But it's got nothing to do with being pro-choice.
And compleat man? I never said I was anti-prostitution. Never. I was trying to point out to a 22-year-old woman - who said she had no drug addiction, no reason to prostitute herself except for extra money on top of her full-time job - how her choosing to do so can harm her in ways she hadn't imagined. The repercussions are harsh.
I am for legalised prostitution so as to make it safer for all practitioners.
Leavemebe: we all judge. That's how we work out right from wrong. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 3:00:04 PM |
You - and I - are judging this woman on her choices in contraception
Careful friendlyfreespirit the op has stated several times that she didn't judge anyone.
EDIT: You are right ffs (sorry for the abbreviation lol) I try very hard not to judge people tho. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 3:14:15 PM |
Careful friendlyfreespirit the op has stated several times that she didn't judge anyone. Where did I ever say I didn't judge her............I said I didn't judge her for having abortions...........just the fact that she uses them as a form of birth control.
BTW, I didn't say I didn't judge people........we all do. You are the one telling me not to judge anyone as you were judging me for judging some one.......lmao
So again I will give your words back to you...........those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Sepia...........blah blah blah blah blah blah..........go have a tirade some where else. If you found this thread so offensive and off topic you had the "choice" not to post in it...........yet you keep coming back her to slash and bite at others. Do you feel better now that you have gotten your aggression for the day out. And yes........the way you post 90% of the time is with judgment and aggression, but feel free to trash on others being on their "soapbox" because that is your choice. I might be aggressive and I was pissed........but you most surely show signs of aggression. If any doubts go read your posts. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 3:41:58 PM | Sepia
Oh, are we going to play the assumption game? I LOVE the assumption game! 
Do you want to know why?
Three reasons.
1. I've noticed people like to use it when they've been called out and want to divert the attention away from themselves and an accurate, if undesirable, point or accusation.
and
2. Right after trying to cast some insignificant doubt on a point or accusation, 9 times out of 10 the person will actually CONFIRM it in the same post.
and
3. There's no need for an argument, because obviously both parties are aware of the accuracy of the statement!
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 3:52:00 PM | kirota- hey congrats on your disingenuous off topic fallacious post....and thanks for following all my posts so doggedly... *kinda creepy tho*.... I cant remark on or critque your posts simply because, I could care less about your posting record, tone whatever..
The bottom line is that anyone can be passionate and debate therein... However
only those with emotional instability lack the ability to differ with another without becoming mentally unglued to the extent that you want to assault another person...
may want to check your anger issues..
I only hope that you don't set this poor example in your home, teaching your kid to resort to violence when someone says something she doesnt agree with...
Sepia
Oh, are we going to play the assumption game? I LOVE the assumption game!
Do you want to know why?
No we aren't gonna play a thing, sorry...You erroneously ASSumed that I stated my stance on abortion and I corrected you.. enuf said....
No offense, but could care less what games you love .... and um.. no I don't care to know why..
feel free continue your abortion debate solo..:)
buh bye..
vvvvvv//ROFL.... um dont waste your money on tickets,compleat.. I find the "invisible gf thread" more lucid and palatable | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 4:30:31 PM | I agree with you on this. Using abortion as a form of birth control is just wrong. When I was on active duty in the Army I knew a couple women who let themselves get pregnant so they could get out of the Army. As soon as they were out they had abortions. I couldn't believe it. In the cases I knew of the men wanted to marry the women, become a daddies, and live happily ever after. They were used as sperm banks. 
No, I couldn't be friends with someone who had ever lived life this way. Even if that person is not behaving that way anymore, I believe they have to have a cold, hard, heart on the inside.
If the mutual friend knew of this and was OK with it, I don't think I could just overlook that either. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 4:45:32 PM |
I shoved my chair back and walked out as I threw a $20 down on the table for my meal.
Sounds like you paid twenty bucks to let people know that you're immature.
My feelings are much like yours, 8 abortions? - yikes thats a lot, but who am I to expect others to live by my morals? Your reaction was a little overboard imho. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 4:54:23 PM |
Give the person a copy of the short flick called "Silent Scream". Where a baby is pictured on a ultra sound sucking his thumb. And the next moment the child is screaming with its mouth open as it shows its head being ripped off.
I've come across it on the pornsites I go to.
It's not a baby. More often than not, the "baby" is no bigger than a booger.
It's a booger, not a baby. | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 5:04:33 PM | Lonestar, that's one of the saddest things I've ever heard. Bullsh*t, indeed! what nerve of that woman to say such a horrible thing to another woman, one who was doing a truly selfless thing.
I hope it all turned out great for the baby. I hope your friend - the mom - is doing ok. and I hope the b*tch gets hers! | |
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| A serious sexual question for men and women
Posted: 1/14/2009 5:09:27 PM | It's a booger, not a baby.
um, yeah, would a piece of snot have the DNA of both parents in it?
'booger'..such a 'classy' way of putting things..not
by your logic you were a piece of snot for 9 months too; sadly your mother didn't believe in abortion I guess? | |
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