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 hala-steve
Joined: 10/11/2007
Msg: 201
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Chelsea football club !Page 9 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
Carrick is no doubt a good player, but I don't ever think he would become a World class player, don't see it happening!
That's where Ballack has the edge, he already has that status of 'World class ', whereas Carrick is yet to achieve that, and may not even achieve it, that's the gospel truth!


 JasonVoorhees666
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 202
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 1:45:15 PM
I know carrick is not world class I never stated that I said carricks style is like a pirlo not that he is as good has pirlo, and when ppl state carrick is average then they really do not understand the game and what he brings to united. carrick is as important to united as makelele was to real madrid. lampard is not a world class player in my book same with ballack, they just lack the silky class that would make them that damn good. the players I see as world class in that central midfield area are xavi iniesta gerrard fabrigas too name just a phew. lampard and ballack lack the vision the teqnical skill and their ability to pass like scholes at his peak iniesta and xavi. a world class player must be the complete package.
 hala-steve
Joined: 10/11/2007
Msg: 203
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Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 2:10:52 PM
^^^^
HaHaHa!!!
You say Ballack and Lampard are not World Class?
You clearly don't know much about Football, sorry to say that, but I have read some of your posts in previous Threads and tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but from what you just said now...you have confirmed it!
So because a player is not silky and doesn't play the fancy football means he can't be world class?

How many times have Lampard been nominated as FIFA World player of the year?
In 2005, he was the runner up to Ronaldinho who eventually won that award, no player is nominated for that award if he is not World class!
Check your facts before you air your opinions!

 hala-steve
Joined: 10/11/2007
Msg: 204
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Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 2:13:02 PM
By the way...I don't think Fabregas is World class, he is getting there, but not yet!

 kirk763
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 205
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 2:13:52 PM
But what you are saying in your last post Jason is basically that Carrick is not world class, that he's not a brilliant...that he's average. To say that someone is an average top flight footballer is not an insult. It makes you a decent player amongst other decent players but nowhere near the level of the handful of great players. I would agree with your estimation of Iniesta, Xavi, Gerrard and Fabergas, class players, like Scholes...but Ballack was absolutely brilliant when he busrt onto the scene. He has had massive influence in a world cup and any player that can make an impact like that at a world cup is different class as far as I'm concerned. But he's a very different kind of player to the slick passing midfield puppeteers.
 JasonVoorhees666
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 206
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 2:44:13 PM
yea dnt forget cannavaro was voted the worlds best player and was cannavaro the best that year I doubt it, zidane was voted in the top 3 of the worlds best players but he had a awful season. lampard as great attributes but world class I doubt it. owen scores or scored loads of goals but that did not mean micheal owen was world class. xavi iniesta are always influencing games, they never give the ball the way they create chances have great vision their teqnique is outstanding and can play an eye of a neadle passes. lampard and ballack have none any of those talents, you look at scholes at his peak when he was the outstanding CM player and he really makes lampard look average. look at scholes in the 06/07 season scholes was just sansational the way he ran the midfield at that time I have never seen lampard hit those heights despite the goals he has scored.
 JasonVoorhees666
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 207
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 2:45:20 PM
to make it clear zidane in 2006 was voted in the top 3 and he did not deserve to be there that year.
 hala-steve
Joined: 10/11/2007
Msg: 208
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Posted: 5/25/2009 3:06:52 PM
Jason,
You still don't get it!
Cannavaro was voted the World's best player because he earned it, that award has always been awarded to attacking players, so when it was given to Cannavaro; it was a bit unusual.

Moreover, even if he wasn't the best player for that year, it doesn't deny the fact that he is a World class player, a player musn't have to be the best in a season or seasons to be World class...there are other factors that make a player World class!
You said Zidane had an awful season?
He may have had an awful season because of the standard he had already set, and if he doesn't reach such standards, people would say he had a bad season.
Look @ Ronaldo, he scored loads of goals last season, but because he didn't score such number of goals this season, people are saying he had a bad season.

So like I previously said, a player has to be World class to be nominated for that award, not meaning that a player has to win the award to be World class, don't get it twisted!
Zidane was nominated for that award cos he was World class!

Who said Owen is not World class?
Owen may be having difficulties @ this present time, but he has attained that status of World class, the same with Ballack and some others, but no one can ever take that away from them, they've made history in their own little ways!


 JasonVoorhees666
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 209
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 3:29:22 PM
owen ballack lampard are and were very good players but they fall short of world class, look at torres and you look at owen you can tell how much better torres is as a striker than owen, and you can tell which is the world class player. owen is an outdated striker, without the ball owen he only had the pace, and he has very little talent when has the ball except for when he was scoring goals. ronaldo for me has had another top class season yes he has had is little hissy fits but its been a fantastic season for him and he keeps up that status as the worlds best player and for me ronaldo is the most complete player on the planet.
 hala-steve
Joined: 10/11/2007
Msg: 210
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Posted: 5/25/2009 3:40:52 PM
Well, since you insist the above named players are not World class, I guess we'll leave it @ that, but when the majority of people have the same view that those players are World class, then you should know your views are wrong!
I have given you clear examples why some of them are World class, but you still insist they are not, we'll leave it @ that, cos no use trying to convince you.

 JasonVoorhees666
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 211
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 3:59:36 PM
well if u think owen was world class then you need a look at the title world class. like I said ballack and lampard lack that playmaker craft to be called world class. or have the driving runs keane had and what essien has now.
 hala-steve
Joined: 10/11/2007
Msg: 212
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Posted: 5/25/2009 4:08:29 PM
Jason, I don't know what your definition of World class is to be honest with you.
If World Class means to be classy, playmaker and whatnot, then there would be no world class defenders as they lack all the qualities you mentioned...Cannavoro won't be World Class and shoudn't have won the FIFA World player, Terry won't be World class etc.
If you need more evidence about Owen being World class, then you should vist this link, coincidentally, the discussion is about Owen!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A51971510

If other people from a different forum would label Owen as World class, then like I rightly said...your views are plain WRONG!


 JasonVoorhees666
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 213
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 4:27:51 PM
There are world class defenders I know that but in the midfield area and upfront they got too have nearly the lot. the attacking midfield area the style of player that I see has world class are the style of scholes zidane nedved in their prime, xavi iniesta gerrard in the attacking style of player that’s what I see as world class, in the other area of cm type keane vierra davids in their prime they were world class, essien is the new generation of that type of player. lampard and ballack are supposed to be world class yet they can’t work together has a pair which shows they can’t adopt their game which is also another flaw in their game, I have seen scholes and Carrick work well despite they have similar styles, look at xavi and iniesta they are similar yet they work together so well. Yes gerrard and lampard could never work together, but gerrard everyone knows his best position but he can play RW and upfront which shows he can adopt to different styles.
 hala-steve
Joined: 10/11/2007
Msg: 214
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Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 4:45:42 PM
http://www.milanmania.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-19703.html

More evidence that Ballack and Lampard are World class players.
As you can see...that Thread was as far back as 2006, and almost everyone named Lampard on their list, goes again to show your lack of knowledge about Football.
I hereby wish to rest my case if after visiting that link and you still decide to argue.

 JasonVoorhees666
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 215
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 4:55:45 PM
lampard would not get into the united side no would ballack. ppl overated players on what they actually do. some have gago baptista veron and emerson in there which shows they know of the game if they think any of those players are world class back then.
 shiningblackstar
Joined: 4/22/2006
Msg: 216
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Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 6:36:59 PM

lampard would not get into the united side no would ballack.

would carrick, anderson,fletcher get into the chelsea team? doesnt mean they are bad players.
ballack how can you say he is not world class single handedly he took germany to world cup final in 2002 and was their best player in 2006 and he took his club side to champions league final against madrid few years back. maybe the standards he set he has not been able to attain for the last couple of years.
carrick looks good in a very good man utd team was he world class before he moved to man utd?
ballack on the other hand from early on was world class.
 JasonVoorhees666
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 217
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/25/2009 7:21:22 PM
well look at it this way chelsea without essien the midfield looks old without any legs, essien is the legs of that chelsea side and it has showed when essien has returned chelsea look a better side. fletcher I think would have compensated the loss of essien, and carrick I think would be that creative playmaker they lacked which they thought deco would be that player. it is small minded to think carrick looks good in a good united side, berbatov looks totaly out of his depth in a united shirt and that is a player I think looks leggy not a carrick. some players fit into certain teams ballack berbatov deco do not fit into the chelsea and united sides they look out of place, and I think all 3 of berbatov deco and ballack look past their sell by dates.
 kirk763
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 218
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/26/2009 1:00:23 AM
I just don't agree with that at all! Berbatov has played some breathtaking football in his first season. He is completely different class to Carrick. He has a languid style so he looks lazy when you have the likes of Tevez riproaring around the place. But Berbatov is pure quality...

Carrick would have a tough time getting into most top sides and is largely ignored by the national side. Of course he's a slick passer...but only when he's giving oceans of time and space. You cannot just assume that he's doing all of this tireless, ingenius invisible work. We're all football fans, and we know how to appreciate different roles. Michael Carrick just does not impose himself on the game and for a central midfielder that is a minimal requirement. If you're going to anchor midfield you have to turn around look for the ball and control the pace of the game...he shirks that responsibility...I watch him every game to see if he'll finally begin to assume responsibility for that role, but he doesn't, as soon as the back four have the ball, he turns his back jogs away and waits for someone else to do the job...here's hoping that he doesn't do it AGAIN in Rome.
 kirk763
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 219
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/26/2009 1:05:26 AM
And Berbatov past it Jason? He's only 28, he's just hitting his absolute prime as a professional footballer...you're very quick to write player's obituaries on the basis of age...Giggs just won his first PFA player of the year at the age of 35. Mind you, Carrick will be 28 in July, so if we're to take your view, he's only got a month or so left before he's over the hill!
 JasonVoorhees666
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 220
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/26/2009 7:17:55 AM
kirk some players can go on until their 40s, berbatov's style is suited to the italian league where the pace suits him. he does not suit united because he is not dynamic or quick enough. if berbatov was that good how come he will not start, fergie must have gotten cold on him, 14 goals for someone who cost 30 million is an awful return especially when he is a striker.
 Pedro 1976
Joined: 3/23/2007
Msg: 221
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/26/2009 9:21:22 AM
not only Zidane was world class but he will be remembered after 100 years time as even the greatest. honestly if you study Maradona deeply and his titles, you easily see that Zidane has got a lot more, and also more than Cruyff, etc

people tend to slag off even the best players at their current times, later or when they die they are recognised.

Cannavaro did deserve the Fifa player of the year, he was a fantastic defender with both Italy and Madrid. because his last seasons have been rubbish does not mean he is not world class anymore, he is! that is all!

under my opinion to even suggest that Zidane and Cannavaro 'stopped' being world class because of a bad season is ridiculous and unfair. all players have bad seasons before retiring.

"Fergie must have gotten cold on him" oh God! i never thought that an Englishman would use the American version of the English language i would have written "Fergie must have GOT ......"

isn't 'Got' the past participle of 'to get', since when it is 'gotten'?
 kirk763
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 222
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/26/2009 10:17:22 AM
It's his first season at United and I think he's done quite well. And I think you're being a little disingenuous about the goal scoring thing. Rooney hasn't scored massive amounts of goals and we don't complain, neither has Tevez. Berbatov is an all round playmaker, he scores AND creates an awful lot of opportunities for others. He is a fantastic player and has had a commendable first season. He holds the ball up really well and always looks to offload to others.
 JasonVoorhees666
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 223
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/26/2009 11:10:10 AM
van nistlerooy in his first season was a monster for united, tevez was fantastic in his first season for united. united need a powerful striker not another second striker.
 kirk763
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 224
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/26/2009 12:13:25 PM
Tevez came into a United team with no one challenging for his place...there was a glaring gap...but how many goals did he score? He didn't exactly win the golden boot. Berbatov has never been the most prolific striker going...he and Van Nistletroy are completely different animals...he's one of the most prolific goal scoring machines we've ever seen. But he doesn't do much else for the team. Fergie wanted another versatile attacking forward who could slot into various systems, compliment their style of play and offer a target for holding the ball up if need be. He's done that quite well in my opinion and will get better and better. He hasn't exactly bombed like Veron now has he?
 JasonVoorhees666
Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 225
Chelsea football club !
Posted: 5/26/2009 2:23:10 PM
well the great thing about uniteds squad last year is despite saha injured all year is, is the versitility of the squad. with strikers such as rooney and tevez they were settled they knew their roles, but the plus point was ronaldo also can play as a striker,if a rooney or tevez were out fergie could shift ronaldo upfront and hargreaves giggs park nani could all fill in on the wings. so berbatov was a luxury more than a must, the area united should have improved to the side was another wide player because giggs does not play on the wings much, hargreaves is out nani at the moment is not good enough we dnt want to totaly give up on nani, and park is not a match winning wide player. like giggs or ronaldo
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