Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  > About the Friendship First      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 126
About the Friendship FirstPage 6 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
offramp (and others),

Offramp, thanks for busting my balls. ;)

First, there is no difference between "just friends" and "friendship first", unless someone clearly states their odd meaning otherwise to the other person. Friendship First means you're (claiming) to be -just friends-. Disagree? Friendship is First before -what-? It states within the phrase that's friendship before anything more than being friends.

I agree, though, many people don't MEAN it that way. My concern is why are people using words that DO mean it that way, tho? Because other people do? Not a good enough reason. Problem is, it just feeds vagueness...

Common Assumptions of "Friendship First" (you can't ignore the words in phrase):
1) You mean you want to be JUST FRIENDS when you -first- meet and get to know each other (platonic initially).
2) You mean that you want to build a whole Friendship and nothing more, before any possibility of being more than just friends (platonic friendSHIP established first)
3) You want to take it slow. Could mean traditionally slow, or no restrictions on being physical but on officially "going steady".

#1 - Don't pretend it's platonic initially. It isn't. You wouldn't do that if you were in a committed relationship with a boyfriend or girlfriend, so don't use that definition for those awkward moments when you're not interested in the person... and make it less true to your word if you are. Just go to #3 - you should mean no expectations, taking it slow.

#2 - Again, totally unnecessary route. Like #1, it's not REALLY going to be platonic. You wouldn't be developing a "friendship" with a gal of intentions of developing a romantic relationship, if you had a committed girlfriend. Thus, it's not platonic. Another example of confusing terms.

#3 - Great for 'Taking it Slow'. We understand that's what many (not all whatsoever) people mean -- but guess what? It doesn't always work that way, so why don't they just take out the "Friends First" thing and just call it "Taking it Slow"? You're not going to be just friends, even initially, as the phrase implies...

... but the problem is, some people WILL revert to it meaning "just friends" from the get-go, if they find out they're not interested in the other person (avoids hurt feelings in their mind). Hence, confusion on what they really meant in the first place, and all the crazy definitions.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 127
view profile
History
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/29/2009 2:31:54 PM
^^^Break it down any way you want. A person CAN be attracted to another person, want to sleep with them immediately, but want to discover first AS FRIENDS if there's anything more to that person with every intention of wanting things to become romantic over time...and tell the other person exactly that.

You may not have ever experienced it, you may not like it or believe it, and that's your choice. It does happen though, and I can't be the only one that's said to someone essentially "I'd like to "do" you and all, but let's hang out first and see if we can stand each other before we sleep together, instead of realizing after we get over the sex that there's nothing else going on".

On the other hand, I have met men and in 10 minutes known that it would never be more than JUST friends, and I have told them exactly that.

It's not that complicated.
 Luckygohappy68
Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 128
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/29/2009 2:44:35 PM
DJChickie,

I like your way of thinking! Straight and without that much fuss and pretense.

Will you marry me? Oh, I forgot, we got to be friends first, but anyway I don't think you are that much into me, anyway.

In consequence, let us just be friends... :)
 Blk_Archangel7
Joined: 12/21/2007
Msg: 129
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/29/2009 2:53:27 PM
that friendship first means a bunch of bollocks. What that REALLY MEANS is that they're seeing someone and you're not boyfriend potential. I'd move on cuz if they like you they would ALWAYS put you first.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 130
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/29/2009 5:30:26 PM
DJCHICKIE,

Actually, I've stated before -- I personally roll with it without too much disregard, because after all, that's life and many times I do know what they mean or find out very quickly. But I've seen and heard many stories about the confusion, there's a good reason why, and that's why it's a good topic to debate in the forums.

A person CAN be attracted to another person, want to sleep with them immediately, but want to discover first AS FRIENDS if there's anything more to that person with every intention of wanting things to become romantic over time...and tell the other person exactly that.

Well put. But, Your Scenario:
You want to be just friends with that person, until you fully get to know them. But... You won't be -just- friends. You want to role-play that, but that's just weird. Disagree? If you're with each other AS FRIENDS, then obviously there would be no problem for the guy to bring a hot date over to the bar after you've had some chit-chat. You're just friends first, right? Or are you MORE than just friends? :)

1) You're still not -just friends- if you're going thru that process. So why call it 'Friends First'?
2) Most people, whether they're looking to seriously date, casually date, just hang out, etc., are wanting to discover more about that person to see if they're truly dateable in the long run. But during that process, again, you're not -just friends-!

Just because people are more than friends, it doesn't mean you're dating.
FYI, I am -not- arguing that when two people meet it's a "date".
I'm saying don't call it "Just Friends" (Friends First/Friendship First), due to the fact you are more than friends.
If all uses of the term had the same meaning for everyone, I wouldn't try to make my points so readily (okay, maybe shake my head - lol).

Problem is: Some people want to establish a full-on friendship established first (can take a good long while), some people want to just take it slow (your scenario is different), some people want to role-play as friends (cousins) in the beginning, and some people just mean there's no commitment at first but no rules of taking it slow physically.

Leave it up to a profile description or one's words in what they're looking for. No need to pretend you're just friends, when you're not. Otherwise, again, you could do all that while you were with someone else!
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 131
view profile
History
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/29/2009 7:19:36 PM
Azureorb: I get that you don't particularly like the word "friends" and that you feel it's a confusing thing to say. However like most other things, reading something like this from a profile tells you nothing unless you actually know the person, which is why the topic is so much fun to debate. Everyone is putting a spin on it that they take from personal experience, including me.

Well put. But, Your Scenario:
You want to be just friends with that person, until you fully get to know them. But... You won't be -just- friends. You want to role-play that, but that's just weird. Disagree? If you're with each other AS FRIENDS, then obviously there would be no problem for the guy to bring a hot date over to the bar after you've had some chit-chat. You're just friends first, right? Or are you MORE than just friends? :)

You're saying "just friends" in that quote, which to me means "nothing else - ever" so in that context I can't answer it. I may want to FIRST be friends with someone I have attraction to but when the word "just" comes with friends in my case anyway, it pretty much means don't hold your breath. If I want to be JUST friends with a guy, I'm hoping he finds a hot girl - quick, cause then I don't have to have "the talk" with him when he forgets I said "just friends". Sweet.

1) You're still not -just friends- if you're going thru that process. So why call it 'Friends First'?

If there's any process of me being interested in a guy, "just friends" doesn't apply. However friends first means there's a level beyond that I want to get to.

2) Most people, whether they're looking to seriously date, casually date, just hang out, etc., are wanting to discover more about that person to see if they're truly dateable in the long run. But during that process, again, you're not -just friends-!

You keep saying "just friends", and again - to me that means I'm not interested, therefore dating, casual or otherwise doesn't apply.

Just because people are more than friends, it doesn't mean you're dating.
FYI, I am -not- arguing that when two people meet it's a "date".

I will...if I don't know the guy and never met him, it's not a date to me. It's a meet - a thing I do to determine whether or not I want to "date" him.

I'm saying don't call it "Just Friends" (Friends First/Friendship First), due to the fact you are more than friends.

Yeah, I can't go over this again.

If all uses of the term had the same meaning for everyone, I wouldn't try to make my points so readily (okay, maybe shake my head - lol).

We're all making our points. Mine is that "just friends" is pretty self explanatory. Means "like a brother". "Friends FIRST" means hey I dig you, I have attraction to you, but before I act on it, what ELSE you got going on?"
 Luckygohappy68
Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 132
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/29/2009 7:32:34 PM
AzurOrb,

I see where you are getting at, and I understand it perfectly from a male perspective.

However, on this one probably I am on DJChickie's side.

We don't need to delve too much in details.

If I woman tells me that she has got a potential romantic interest for me, but wants to start as friends, that would be good enough for me. However, to be on the safe side, I would try to inquire discretely what are the limits of the friendship, without delving too much into details.

For example, I would ask her if it is fine with her if I could offer her flowers, or surprise her with some concert tickets, or any kind of little attention with romantic connotation.

Seems like this was the issue with my last date. I had the feeling that I am going out on dates with her, and allowed myself some discrete romantic gestures (like offering her flowers or a little gift, and she did not try to discourage me). However, somehow she was thinking that I am moving too fast on her and, while she was still willingly to see me, started pulling away because she did not want to reciprocate yet... Probably if I would have waited just a little longer with what I was doing, the outcome would have been probably different.

I do not know the end of the story, because I figured out that she became unemployed all of the sudden recently and this might be at the root of her disappearing act. If I would become unemployed and I would not be in a relationship with someone, probably I would disappear too, having bigger fish to fry than going on dates.

However, I think DJ's point stands coming from a female perspective.

That probably would be my line in the future...
 MY OH MY
Joined: 10/11/2007
Msg: 133
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/29/2009 8:29:19 PM
^^^^^ That really sounds good! I really think you got it and perhaps next time you go out you will just have fun and not stress. Don't ask too soon, don't push too soon, but if you aren't feeling it, hey you know to move on.

My ex used to say we were friends first, lovers next, man and wife third, and family fourth. If you meet someone irl and not online, I do think it is easier to be friends first. For me I wasn't looking for just friends on line when I was meeting guys to date, so there was a different perception of why we were going out. (I am not meeting anyone now as I am in a relationship.)
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 134
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/30/2009 12:10:18 AM
DJCHICKIE,

You're saying "just friends" in that quote, which to me means "nothing else - ever"

Just friends means nothing but friends. It means not more than friends, just friends. It doesn't mean "ever", it means now when you're saying 'friends first'. Also, I said if you're with a guy AS FRIENDS (words you used), why isn't it alright for him to introduce you to a hot date? Are you just friends? Or are you more than friends? Please answer the question. :)

You keep saying "just friends", and again - to me that means I'm not interested, therefore dating, casual or otherwise doesn't apply.

Exactly. I emphasize "just friends" because that's what "friends first" means -- "just friends" (for now). When dumping someone, yes, it can mean "forever", but not in the context of first meeting and being "friends first". It means, in black and white, just friends and NOT anything more than friends.

I think this proves you're too quick to assume what I believe, and a little confused on your end.
My quote:

Just because people are more than friends, it doesn't mean you're dating. FYI, I am -not- arguing that when two people meet it's a "date".
Your response:
I will...if I don't know the guy and never met him, it's not a date to me.
Okay, stop the presses. If you don't know the guy and never met him it's not a date. No sh!t. You think I'm implying otherwise? To you, or anyone else, of course it's not a date.
It's a meet - a thing I do to determine whether or not I want to "date" him.

Okay, making sense of what you're saying, you're saying "I will"... You WILL argue that it's not a date? Baby, I SAID it wasn't a date. Read my quote! You agreed with me but were pressed to manipulate my words to everyone else that I'm somehow saying the opposite! LOL I gotcha on your huge problem, but you gotcha'd me into having people believe I was arguing the opposite (sigh).

Mine is that "just friends" is pretty self explanatory. Means "like a brother"

I agree.

"Friends FIRST" means hey I dig you, I have attraction to you, but before I act on it, what ELSE you got going on?

Huh? Hate to sound argumentative, but a little nonsensical. Before I act on it, what else "you got going on"? (eyebrow raised)

Friends First can mean that to some people by their personal definition, and that's my point. Many times it's different. Read the words. You're Friends First. That's different than casual first, or taking it slow at first. I know the phrase is commonly used to mean one of those two different things, but some people also use it to mean it to mean strictly platonic 100% with the future possibility of maybe dating at some point (lol).

My point is, if you're planning a one-on-one meetings with the opposite sex, you're attracted to each other, with potential implications to "act on it", you're more than friends.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 135
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/30/2009 12:45:15 AM
LuckyGoHappy,

My argument isn't how girls and guys should be when they meet. It's just the keep the vague labels of "Friends First" out. :) I hope you didn't run with her response, assuming I was saying that meeting means dating! It does not necessarily, whatsoever! (She quoted me, and argued against me, agreeing - weird).

For example, I would ask her if it is fine with her if I could offer her flowers, or surprise her with some concert tickets, or any kind of little attention with romantic connotation.

Yes, you're right, that was wayyyy too much. Keep it casual! It doesn't mean you're just friends, you're just hanging out and feeling each other out. No pressure. It's a two-way "interview", not one-way to prove yourself. Instead, you were letting her know that you wanted to be her caterer and pretending it was your duty to do a song and dance with glamorous services for them. Women don't like guys who want to cater to them, especially when they want it casual or explicitly a non-romantic setting in the beginning. They want a guy who COULD, not wants-to-right-now (unless they're very traditional and/or have a huge crush on you).

Probably if I would have waited just a little longer with what I was doing, the outcome would have been probably different.

Well, not while you're in the pre-dating phase. You'd have to wait until you've been actually dating! And then, well, you'd just do it when it's deserving, and not ask her either. Problem is your game... you're Mr. Nice Guy. You want to please women as your main goal, and lose sight of everything else... you end up striving to cater to them. That's what mom would say is good, though, right? Don't do it. Do Not Do It. :)

You're just meeting them. It doesn't mean you're just friends, but it doesn't mean you're dating either. A first meeting can be a first date... and you can hit it off. A first meeting can be casual and expected to not have a romantic setting (too much pressure for some). In those cases, don't try too hard to cater to them... They can see that in you like dogs can see fear. ;)
 Luckygohappy68
Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 136
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/30/2009 4:49:10 AM
AzureOrb,

Usually I do not do romantic gestures (even small), until later in the process. Last time I offered someone flowers was on a birthday party, middle of last year. I don't even remember when was last time I offered someone flowers before that. It was I think a couple of years ago, when I was in a relationship. Meanwhile I went on dates, or meets, or whatever you want to call them, and kept them casual.

The reason probably I did it this time was because the prospective date is very attractive by my standards, ant that sort of threw me off balance and made me lose perspective.

The good news from me was that I got a chance with her, even if I might have blown it apart. Probably I would get another chance with someone like her.

Dating is a process based on experience, and people do mistakes and learn from them.

However, there is one more take I need to think about in the whole situation. This is to figure out when the other one is not that into you, and back off.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 137
view profile
History
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/30/2009 6:37:30 AM
Azureorb; sigh...I thought we were getting somewhere. In MY CASE, "just friends" and "friends first" are two different things. To you they may be the same, but since we're not planning on hanging out together - it doesn't matter. Nowthen:

Just friends means nothing but friends. It means not more than friends, just friends.

I know it means that, I said it means that.

It doesn't mean "ever", it means now when you're saying 'friends first'.

In a friends first scenario ATTRACTION AND INTENT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED. That's the difference. I can't explain it to you any other way.

Also, I said if you're with a guy AS FRIENDS (words you used), why isn't it alright for him to introduce you to a hot date? Are you just friends? Or are you more than friends? Please answer the question. :)

As JUST friends? He can introduce me to 14 hot dates. As friends first, he'd be establishing himself as not interested in more than freinds (which is also fine if that's the case), and I'd assume he was dating someone and not open to date me (duh!). Most men I date usually have the same mindset I do, so it wouldn't really happen anyway.
Answer: We are friends with the INTENT OF IT BECOMING MORE, which means first friends, then more. Did you get that?

Exactly. I emphasize "just friends" because that's what "friends first" means TO ME -- "just friends" (for now). When dumping someone, yes, it can mean "forever", but not in the context of first meeting and being "friends first". It means, in black and white, just friends and NOT anything more than friends.

There. I fixed your quote to reflect your position. To me, when I say "just" it implies no attraction, and when I say "first" it implies attraction. Again, you can make it complicated if you want, but it's THAT simple (and most others seem to get it). I don't care how you take it, because it's irrelevant to me.

If you don't like the word "friends" and think it's platonic regardless of what someone means, then that's YOUR interpretation and I think you should live your life according to that. But don't tell others what it means, tell them what YOU THINK it means.

Okay, making sense of what you're saying, you're saying "I will"... You WILL argue that it's not a date? Baby, I SAID it wasn't a date. Read my quote! You agreed with me but were pressed to manipulate my words to everyone else that I'm somehow saying the opposite! LOL I gotcha on your huge problem, but you gotcha'd me into having people believe I was arguing the opposite (sigh).

I don't know what that was all about, but I was agreeing with you, yeah - obviously I should have said that verbatim, but I assumed you'd just pick up on it.

Friends First can mean that to some people by their personal definition, and that's my point. Many times it's different. Read the words. You're Friends First. That's different than casual first, or taking it slow at first. I know the phrase is commonly used to mean one of those two different things, but some people also use it to mean it to mean strictly platonic 100% with the future possibility of maybe dating at some point (lol).

Exactly. Which is why this whole thread is stupid if you assume you know what something means and you don't ask. If you have any sense of reading people, body language, and how someone reacts to you and their level of interest towards you you'd know what it meant (which you already eluded to earlier, anyway).

Just don't come back and tell me what I mean by what I say, no one knows that but me, and I explained it as such. You can take it your way, and everyone else takes it their way. In another thread "taking it slow" is a platonic death sentence to some of the men when dating a woman, and in another thread, it's not a big deal to anyone and no one finds it odd. Go firgure. Welcome to the English language. It's all open to interpretation depending on who's listening to it.

So let's all just ask people what they mean if it's all the same, right?
 Luckygohappy68
Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 138
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/30/2009 7:15:48 AM
DJChickie,

You are onto something, and I want to bring the focus on it.

One needs to focus more on the non-verbal signals the other one gives than the words per se.

I do not retain exactly the percent, but a very large side of communication is non-verbal, expressed by attitudes and body language.

If you look closely at the other one and know how to interpret the body language, you will know very well were you stand with him or her, regardless what they declare verbally.

I am relatively knew to the body language interpretation, but I started being better at it.

For example, if someone tells you she wants to be friends first with you, and the attitude is arms and legs crossed, hair pushed behind the ears, and her legs pointing away from you, that is a hint that you might want to call a cab and go somewhere else. You are not getting anywhere. There are techniques to open someone and unwind her, but you are already warned that things are not going too well.

However, if someone tells you that she wants to be friends with you, and keeps the shoulders straight and open, she looks in your eyes, faces you and shows you her palms somehow (there are some other signs, too, but they need to be at least four at any time to be right about the attitutde), that is a sign of opening and probably interest more than friendly...

Sometimes, if one is really attracted to the other one, fails exactly to notice the body language and falls in the trap blindly.

Usually I pay attention to all these little details, but depending on who sits in front of me, I might become oblivious to all of this at times...

Probably I need to suggest myself that the woman in front of me is ugly to keep my objectivity alive... :)
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 139
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/30/2009 9:44:47 AM
LuckyGoHappy,

Well, to make it relevant to the thread (so folks don't complain), I have to ask -- is this a scenario of her laying out that she wanted it casual, taking it slow, or even (gasp) 'friendship first'? ;o) If so, then I think it's a more obvious lesson you've learned.

The reason probably I did it this time was because the prospective date is very attractive by my standards, ant that sort of threw me off balance and made me lose perspective.

A lot of guys have a history of having a situation or two like that. Usually, if she's really attractive and you thought that it was a rare-opportunity for a certain type of "high ranking" gal, that's when you SURELY don't show yourself as wanting to be her buttercup. ;) You're not alone, you learn from it. But don't dwell on a situation like that... Just know that some girls who get lots of attention from men, like a guy who she has to show herself to for once. However, I wasn't there -- maybe your game wasn't that bad. If your tone, approach, etc. was just cool and fine, but couldn't help yourself from throwing out the notion of asking her if she was the kinda gal who liked flowers or surprise concert tickets, you didn't blow it (if you were looking for a relationship). She wouldn't have been game anyway, most likely.

However, there is one more take I need to think about in the whole situation. This is to figure out when the other one is not that into you, and back off.

One thing to avoid it is not to go down the line of the REAL "friendship first" gals. DJChickie's definition to HER is fine (IMO, doesn't match the phrase), and if a girl manages to convincingly lay out that's just about not jumping into bed with a guy or jump into dating so quickly, then you should be game if you're really attracted to them.

However, some girls switch definitions depending on how they feel about the guy, but like their company and continue to hang out. He won't know if they just like him as a friend, or it's just part of their mantra of "Friendship-first-but-no-I-like-you". I don't run into this often at all, but have once or twice in college, where they like you as just a friend and you're like "WTF? Then why keep hanging out?" Their answer? Well, we're friends! lol And they have a point...

You want to avoid knowing if they're not into you? Don't chase them so much, no matter who they are. Sure, you're the guy, you give them a call (not too soon, not too late). If you leave a message, you let them call you back. If they don't call back, and expect you to text them if they don't get around to calling ya, they're not that into you. Body language like playing with their hair, and light, casual, open contact of shoulders, hands, etc. If you don't know if she's that into you after meeting her and following up with her, either she has "the wall" she puts up (don't waste your time unless you're looking for practice), or she's not that into you. :)

But you don't want to get caught up in any situation where you're wondering if you're on the "friends ladder" or the "dating ladder". And the official "dating ladder" means more-than-friends. :)
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 140
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/30/2009 10:08:38 AM
DJCHICKIE,

We are friends with the INTENT OF IT BECOMING MORE, which means first friends, then more. Did you get that?

You avoid hitting it head on, though. Are you just friends? Or are you more than friends? Please, be cooperative and don't make up your own definitions to avoid it! :) It's either one or the other! Your response is "First friends, then more"? So you're saying you're not anything more than friends at first, because "then more". If there's nothing MORE than friends at first, you're JUST FRIENDS.

If I'm not anything more than friends with a girl, then it's fine for me to put my arm around another lady when I'm hanging out with her. If I can't (or shouldn't) do that, then I'm more than friends. Very basic, isn't it?

I don't know what that was all about, but I was agreeing with you, yeah - obviously I should have said that verbatim, but I assumed you'd just pick up on it.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but it was pretty obvious, IMO... and that you were disagreeing and agreeing, when I said "I am not arguing that..." and you said "I will..." (but followed it with the same position I held, as if I didn't hold it). But regardless, we'll just call it a misread...


If you don't like the word "friends" and think it's platonic regardless of what someone means, then that's YOUR interpretation and I think you should live your life according to that. But don't tell others what it means, tell them what YOU THINK it means.

I never said I didn't like the word "friends". It's a great word. In fact there can even be Friends w/ Benefits... or More than Friends... What I'm talking about is unnecessarily using the label of "Friendship First". YOU may define it certain ways, but guess what? Others don't.

Everyone has the right to call "Friendship First" whatever they want. I'm not TELLING people they NEED to define it by what the phrase actually means & implies by default. I'm HIGHLY recommending that people use the term by what it means and implies. It's the words. Replacing a meaning with one's own "version" results in people being confused -IF- you don't clarify what your version means.

I'm sure you don't use the term to play games with people, sure. But some people do use it as an escape hatch to claim platonic intent after stringing a guy (once in a while a gal) around. And some people DO go by what the words strongly imply: They want to develop a platonic only friendship for a while, and then, maybe later, there could be a possibility to date.

If you're platonic at first, you're merely friends at first (I'll leave out the 'just' part for ya). If you're not anything more than friends, you're just merely friends. If you're merely friends, you can put your arm around another gal in front of her and there should be no cry for foul. ;)
 David_Laughed
Joined: 5/29/2007
Msg: 141
view profile
History
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/30/2009 12:58:33 PM
Women just put that line in their profile to give them an easy out in case the guy she goes out with doesn't do it for them. I guarantee any of those women would throw that phrase out the window if they went out with someone that really knocked their socks off. And then they would be mad if the guy took advantage of the situation and then said he thought they were just friends.

Heh, to illustrate, I went out with a woman last summer. It was a good date, even though I wasn't getting a real good vibe from her. She could have been nervous or something so I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt and offered to go out with her again. She told me she just wanted to be friends. That was ok by me, not everyone is going to click. So I wrote her back a few days later and invited her to play an online game with me (which we had talked about doing before and during our date) She never responded back. So much for friendship...
 on-the-offramp
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 142
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/30/2009 1:01:39 PM
Tag DJChickie401, Your it!
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 143
view profile
History
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/30/2009 1:54:20 PM

Tag DJChickie401, Your it!

Quite so.

DJCHICKIE,
You avoid hitting it head on, though. Are you just friends? Or are you more than friends? Please, be cooperative and don't make up your own definitions to avoid it! :) It's either one or the other! Your response is "First friends, then more"? So you're saying you're not anything more than friends at first, because "then more". If there's nothing MORE than friends at first, you're JUST FRIENDS.

That's your mental block it seems at this point, and your interpretation. It's not one or the other, for some of us - it can be and has been both. End of story.

If I'm not anything more than friends with a girl, then it's fine for me to put my arm around another lady when I'm hanging out with her. If I can't (or shouldn't) do that, then I'm more than friends. Very basic, isn't it?

If you want to be passive aggresive to prove a point go ahead. Are you ok with a woman who likes you, wants to get to know you as a friend before dating you, but is still sleeping with someone else because she's still single, and will cut off that sex supply when she gets involved? That's fair too, actually, and it goes both ways. The deciding factor here is either your desire to be right about pushing your definition, or the fact that you're just not interested in more than friendship.

I never said I didn't like the word "friends". It's a great word. In fact there can even be Friends w/ Benefits... or More than Friends... What I'm talking about is unnecessarily using the label of "Friendship First". YOU may define it certain ways, but guess what? Others don't.

I know this, I said as much more than once already. In fact, I closed my last post with that theory. No one looks at anything the same, so ask if you aren't clear. Duh!

Everyone has the right to call "Friendship First" whatever they want. I'm not TELLING people they NEED to define it by what the phrase actually means & implies by default. I'm HIGHLY recommending that people use the term by what it means and implies. It's the words. Replacing a meaning with one's own "version" results in people being confused -IF- you don't clarify what your version means.

If we all clarified everything we meant on a daily basis, then the world would be all lollipops and rainbows, eh? Yeah, its not the way life goes. You're just as guilty for misinterpreting as someone else is for assuming you get what they said.

I'm sure you don't use the term to play games with people, sure. But some people do use it as an escape hatch to claim platonic intent after stringing a guy (once in a while a gal) around. And some people DO go by what the words strongly imply: They want to develop a platonic only friendship for a while, and then, maybe later, there could be a possibility to date.

There are people who use a LOT of different phrases and words to their advantage. Anyone with street smarts or common sense would have some sort of experience, and prepare for that. If you can't see past your hormones, don't blame other people. If you aren't sure - don't go by what you HOPE something means. Ask. Read the vibe.

If you're platonic at first, you're merely friends at first (I'll leave out the 'just' part for ya). If you're not anything more than friends, you're just merely friends. If you're merely friends, you can put your arm around another gal in front of her and there should be no cry for foul. ;)

If you don't want to miss out on who you can hang on until a woman declares exclusivity then that's cool. I assume some women do the same. However if you truly intend to get to know someone with hopes of going beyond friendship, and the person in question is too, then neither will really be trying to reserve the right to hang on others - they'll be too into each other.
 Blakeman
Joined: 10/16/2004
Msg: 144
view profile
History
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/31/2009 12:45:23 AM
IT's called being used. Hate to tell you bro, sounds like you got played, but no worries it's happened to most of us in the past. The fact you made it to date 7 might be an indicator that she lost interest or some bigger better looking deal came along but keeping you as a friend is option expansion if that doesn't work out.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 145
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/31/2009 4:06:26 PM
DJCHICKIE,

It's not one or the other, for some of us - it can be and has been both. End of story.

You're either just friends or you're more than friends (or not friends at all). It's just a simple dividing line. You can use your own description of how you are with someone -- that's fine. But when someone tries to clarify what you're saying and ask "Are you just friends or more than friends?", you do have to pick one or the other to clarify what you mean. You just don't like how that "sounds", but that doesn't mean it's true. Now with your quote, you're now saying it can be both? You can't be just friends and more than friends at the same time... but you can be "friends-but-more-than-friends", sure. Guess what? That means more than friends.

You're falsely assuming (as you did before) my overall stance on some things. Tsk tsk. But I'll move beyond that (that'd extend the post way too long in which I have a habit of doing).

However if you truly intend to get to know someone with hopes of going beyond friendship, and the person in question is too, then neither will really be trying to reserve the right to hang on others - they'll be too into each other.

See, when you say going beyond 'friendship', that means right at that time, it's NOTHING more than a friendship (=just friends). But at the same time, you argue that it's not strictly platonic in these conditions... contradiction. THUS, confusion, regardless how you define it -- just keep it consistent. You can be just friends and happen to like the other person. But if you're just friends, it means there's no offense or anyone turned off by another with someone else right in front of you. Otherwise, you're faking it calling it "just a friendship".

Hence, when you say "Friendship First", you're:
1) Making a false statement, if you plan on being more than only/just friends at first.
2) Possibly using the phrase because you like the sound of it; gives it an easy feeling; don't care about any obfuscation
3) Making a true statement, if you plan on being only/just friends at first.

If you are only/just friends, you can hang on another person in front of them. We both know in your scenarios that'd be uncalled for. If it's uncalled for, you're more than JUST friends (which you agree with, too). If you're more than JUST friends, you're more than friends!

I'm critical of demanding to call something pre-emptively as "friendship first" and at the same time, say "well, no, it's not JUST friends", and then also say "It's not more than friends".

Anything can be quickly resolved and understood through vibes, body language, etc. That's more important than anything else. We both know people's statements on what they're looking for with someone can contradict what they really want (evidence by body language). Very important stuff.

If someone's going to be on here and call "Friendship First" to mean "Man must be an hour late when seeing girl at first", I'd raise an eyebrow and say WTF. Would you'd say that's okay because people can have their own definitions, and there's no reason to say WTF?
 Luckygohappy68
Joined: 11/12/2008
Msg: 146
About the Friendship First
Posted: 2/8/2009 10:05:16 AM
I have some new intakes about the "friendship first" item.

A few weeks back I was matched with a woman on eHarmony professing the belief of "friendship first" on her profile.

I went on a few dates lately with her and I did not feel at all that I was in the "friends" zone, except for the first 1 - 2 dates. Then, because the chemistry was right, things moved very fast and as of today, we are together and everything works more than fine.

My final take on this subject is that still I do not believe in the concept "friendship first".

All that friendship approach is nothing other than a cautious approach to dating, just a room to study the other one until one can move one way or another. I realized that it even does not take that long to reach that decision.

Once she made her mind, my actual girlfriend threw all the friendship overboard with the speed of light, and I am really happy with the way things developed, because the chemistry is real great, as it was from the beginning.

Now I agree with the viewpoint of taking it slow.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 147
About the Friendship First
Posted: 2/8/2009 12:38:50 PM
Lucky,

Like what you said. The issue with "Friendship First" is that it's a phrase that people use, NOT meaning you're -truly- (only) friends before you date. I think a lot of people like to protect their regularly-scheduled-phrases... but there are so many variances on the usage of "Friends First", especially with those who REALLY do mean it (not taking it slow; but an aim to just being friends). Mine's always been a request for people to use something better, and vague if necessary like "I like to just hang out for a while before I start dating", or "take it slow at first", that sort of thing.

In your situation, I wouldn't necessarily call that taking it slow, though. I would say that's normalcy. A couple dates/get-togethers in the pre-dating phase, to feel each other out, and now you're dating. I think it wasn't slow, just not-going-fast (which is good). :)

We're always befriending the other person in the beginning, whether we're taking a patient or impatient course of action.

The issue that makes me roll my eyes is that people who stick to calling it "friends first", is they don't realize that there are people out there truly looking for friendship only at first... like a trusted friendship established over a good amount of time, mainly hanging out with mutual friends or groups of people, before going out on any 'date'.

Personally, I think that's silly to do unless they're an emotional wreck -- but they do have the actual meaning of the phrase on their side - lol.
 Infinity_G
Joined: 1/29/2012
Msg: 148
About the Friendship First
Posted: 4/19/2012 4:17:54 AM

So, I met offline a few weeks back this woman. We hit it off, met for a coffee, went on several what I thought were dates (she let me pay for everything) and then, to my astonishment, she says to me that she is looking for someone to be friends with, and see if anything else comes after that.


Yeah, I think it's kind of a cop-out when they say this. I mean, I know it's probably meant so they don't want to rush into things, but I think it's a highly misused term.

There's this one woman, just moved to my area that contradicted herself in her profile. She said she's not in a place in her life to be dating, even THOUGH she said she's "looking for a relationship" ....in her profile. I was like "huh?" Scratchin' my head on that one.

It's like she's giving excuses before she even meets the anyone in her town? lol
 FishOwl
Joined: 12/13/2008
Msg: 149
view profile
History
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/3/2013 11:59:56 PM
They need a stable of admirers. Tell them yes and treat them as you would other friends and continue to date.

No problem.
 EnigmaticDalton
Joined: 1/13/2013
Msg: 150
About the Friendship First
Posted: 1/18/2013 2:00:02 AM

There's this one woman, just moved to my area that contradicted herself in her profile. She said she's not in a place in her life to be dating, even THOUGH she said she's "looking for a relationship" ....in her profile. I was like "huh?" Scratchin' my head on that one.


Never mind the fact that shes on a DATING website...

I'll copy a post I made in another thread because it applies here also.


There's two kinds of female friends.

There's the kind that are upfront with you and either have no issues having sex with you or will outright tell you they are not interested.

Then there's the kind that lead you on and pretend to be your "friend" when in reality they are just using you.

A real friend has no problems being honest about how they feel. Fake friends play bullshit games and make excuses for their behavior.


Also, a friend will never shame you about sex, women that lead guys on almost always shame the guy about wanting to have sex with her (even though she has no problem ****ing someone else). Almost everyone wants sex (yes women want sex too, even the ones that act like they don't) So be upfront about it and if they shame you then move on. (don't be a vulgar jerk about it, just make sure they know what you want and if they say no then respect that but don't let them make you feel bad about wanting sex)
Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  > About the Friendship First