| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 8:45:39 PM | | Thanks Kbodley - Just stuburn I guess , but if I have to beat it into her head & make her run 10 miles....I will. She was there for me thru some tough times....kinda owe her...guessing she will hate me for it later but got her there once.....think I can do it again.....can't give up on those you care about - there is a fine line between tough love & a funeral home...... | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/19/2009 9:06:08 PM | Might be the "nag", enabler or what ever but you folk's gave great advice and I thank you for that! Just don't want my friend to be the next drunk driver to take out a kid, so yeah, will get up to go get her. Can I "fix" her - probably not. Enabler? Maybe - not going to let a drunk drive home - would any of you want her on the road? But you are right, she need's a female sponsor, need's to let go of "hurts" (we all have them) and need's to move on. Thanks to all & glad I didn't get deleted......your advice really helped! God bless & God Speed! L~ | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/24/2009 11:56:19 PM |
My question is this - her "sponsor" is also her sometimes boyfriend and provides her with alcohol to get his way. Sex or anything else - kinda plays what ever he want's on her addiction & she does it!
He would be a 13th stepper. Held in disdain by everyone who even halfway understands the 12th step programs. There is a path we all walk down in our lives where one direction takes us towards self-actualization and the opposite direction takes us towards ruination. He will always lead her the wrong direction so that he can control her and get what he wants out of her.
That's what 13th steppers do. Unfortunately, there is little you can do other than go to Al-Anon meetings with her in a show of support. Be honest at all times. Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't repeat yourself. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 12:21:26 AM | Here it goes .. you are going to need to make an intervention... and then a few ultimatums that you either keep or you go out with the bath water just like her... so far all you have been doing is enabling her and killing yourself and if you believe that this form of toxicity is not devouring your entire life .. think again .. an addict is not a nice person, they will eat you alive to get what they need and their need is not your friendship it is booze. If I were you I would distance myself immediately from her, not going to be easy but you need to get yourself out of the hazey way you are handling this. The only way someone who gets cleaned up gets there is if they reach the bottom and with your enabling and her boyfriend feeding her addiction she has the perfect parasitical hosts.. you feed her ego and he gives her the booze... so every time she almost hits bottom you damage it by "being there for her".
Now you have to ask yourself ,"what are you getting out of this ?"
You need to understand that by being completely embroiled in her life you have NO LIFE .. it is not caring to bury your life for her .. it is abusing yourself. You want to have your needs met as a human and a woman you better get yourself off this roller coaster ride or you will get sick..
If you don't believe that things must change and change drastically then you need to convince me and everyone else that what you are doing now is productive.. if things have not changed not only are you abusing her in her need to reach the bottom but you have completely neglected the person who needs to work on caring for herself and stop stiffling your life in enabling behaviour.
Once you give yourself a holiday and separation from this hell you will come at this from a completely different vantage point. You are not skilled to handle the manipulative mind of a drug addict .. they run from princess to baby and can only identify as either as the enabling was inflicted from childhood.. walk away and read some material on addiction and attend a meeting that is for extended members in AA so that you gain a perspective on all you need to stop in this very destructive cycle that you do not need to participate in.
Right now she is an abuser , she is no ones friend . Being an enabler is not helpful it is both destructive to her and primarily destructive to you ... heal yourself and reposition your life. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 12:28:42 AM | You don't let a drunk drive home... you tell her that if she is planning to get behind the wheel you will call the police and have her charged with drunk driving .. you need to understand that you are not doing the hard stuff the hard way.... consequences from her actions need to happen ... you ain't her enabling mother you are not going to get respect by getting walked on are yah? She already has you in your place ... nagging you .. you are feeding right into this.. call the police make her understand that you aren't an enabler you are a responsible citizen and a friend.
Getting drunk once and needing a ride is one thing .. but using you for an abusable taxi driver is too much.. like I said ... "get a life and start believing you deserve to be treated better or you will get sick."
A& E did a great group of documentaries on interventions and you should hook up to some of them on YOUTUBE as this gives you an idea of how far things can slide if you keep on doing what you are doing.. nothing changed , changes.
And hard time come on... I got divorced from a LTR.. as in common law partner, lost both parents to cancer in the past year and was laid off from my job the day my dad died. .. booze is an excuse for something alot deeper than now, it is a pain suppressor from something much deeper... her inner dialogue needs a professional therapist skilled in brain addictions and I doubt AA will be the right path for her recovery.. she will need something much stronger in terms of sobriety. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 1:40:57 AM | Having had personal experience in this area.....
She needs to be SINGLE and not fool around while she's in th e program.
I had a relationship with an ex-alcoholic. Wish I would have known more about alcoholism BEFORE I got involved with this person. Would have helped me a lot in trying to help her before she fell off the wagon again.
1.) She needs to lose this guy. Its taboo if you're in a 12 step to be dating someone. Especially another addict.
2.) She needs professional help. A good therapist will allow her to work through some of the personal issues she has. And I'm sure they're are a lot of them.
3.) She needs to be in a program and have a REAL sponsor. NOT just any sponsor, but someone that takes the whole sobriety thing seriously. Someone that perferrably has years of sobriety under their belt. She needs role models around that will re-teach her how great it is to be living a life that isn't hazed by the non-reality of alcohol. The more she's around healthy environments, the better.
4.) Like the person above me said, it might be a good time to distance yourself. Not disappear, but make sure you have a talk with her telling her that her behavior is casuing you to grow apart, not together. And if she wants to keep you as a friend in her life that she needs to get her act together. Sometimes a little bit of tough love goes a long way.
Oh...and last but not least. She needs a sponsor or someone that will be reachable IF and WHEN she'll want to drink. Because once they start again, all the work and trying to get rid of that euphoric drunken feeling comes back again. And then you're starting all over from day one.
Hope this helps. Good luck! | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 5:54:25 AM | ........................................................................................................................................
Hi OP. I am sober and have been for 16 years. For the first few I most certainly Needed and relied on AA. That said - I have Never seen 2 alcoholics "recover" in exactly the same way .. However - I have seen a great deal more success in those who follow the Suggestions that are made by AA.
btw - here is a link that might help you find some resources in your area = AA and Alanon meet Everywhere! **If you can't find an alanon group for yourself (and I do suggest it to those who are family and friends of alcoholics), then find an AA member .. they'll probly know where there are resources for you as well.
http://theagapecenter.com/AAinUSA/Arkansas.htm
((google is awesome aint it??!!))
Anyway .. as for rules?? nonono AA does Not have rules - it Does have "strong" suggestions and most members will tell newcomers that IF they are serious about recovery - they will follow those suggestions:
- Don't Drink - Go to meetings - EVERY DAY at least Once a Day
(A good old friend of mine who is now gone used to say: "90 meetings in 90 days!" and when that is done - do 90 more!!)
- Get a Sponsor - of the Same Gender!!
- H.A.L.T. - Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired No no's for recovering persons
- Get a Big Book and READ IT
- Do the steps (don't just read them) DO them - In Order
- Do NOT have booze in the home (esp early on) I still wouldnt tempt that.
- Do NOT isolate! ((Meetings are most often followed by members going for coffee and chats, if they don't ask you - You ask them!))
- Get involved in Service Work - ie: do for others, volunteer (**builds self esteem)
Just a few .. Also I would suggest a visit to the doc .. it is Very common (esp for women) to suffer from deficiencies in certain vitamins - esp B12. This can cause serious symptoms as well as interfere with recovery. Getting your body healthy is paramount!!
Doc should check: B12, Thyroid, Hormone levels .. ((I'm not a doc .. so those I Know, there are probly lots I don't))
**Recovery doesn't happen overnight and for Most alcoholics - Relapse is common.
I hope that You will take care of you so that you are able to 'be there' for you friend .. so that she can find her way. I sincerely hope that "her way" is from here on Upward and that she will find her own self, her own happiness and peace. I would suggest that she go to an older female in AA - who has had a few years of recovery .. that would be a good place to start.
re the "geographical cure" - It does NOT work! AA teaches people to live life on lifes terms, life happens no matter where you go and no matter where you go you take yourself with you. Moving does Not cure Alcoholism!! | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 6:13:01 AM | AA is a great program, and a lifesaver for many that drink and want to get their lives together.
it's not really the drinking, for that's always a symbol...a symptom if you will of the underlying unhappiness or depression, or personal pain.....although, it is an insidious disease, no doubt.
Anyway....first thought...she has a sponsor who is her boyfriend?
yes, it's suggested that people in AA use sponsor's of their gender , as A.S. is mentions...because of this 13th stepping issue...that is...girl gets boy sponsor, they have a slip, or one 'works' the other, then.....Bam, they're fcukin' in the car outside an AA hall. See, that can be problematic.
But, saying a program like AA has no inherent flaws is like saying there is no corruption in Government. This woman is cross addicted to her booze, her sex, this guy. and....her pain. Sorry as it sounds, there isn't much you can do except continue to get her home and be a friend, and give it to her straight.
She will have to 'bottom out' before she gets a real sponsor and takes it all seriously.
I just hope she doesn't have a drivers license, because a car becomes a two ton death and murder machine in the control of a depressed alkie.
it's a tough one I know...she isn't going to jettison the 'guy' till she 'reaaaaally ' screws up
hang in there with her...but give it to her straight
good luck
Kimbo************************************************
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 6:26:51 AM | | I think some alcoholics suffer from low self esteem and it seems like maybe she thinks this guy has her back. Those of us looking in from the outside cannot really understand what goes on in the mind of an alcoholic. They don't want to hear the truth usually and get defensive and consider our advice nagging. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 6:57:28 AM | OP - stop enabling her. Check out Melody Beattie or read "women who love too much" or any of the great ACOA books. You may think you are helping her by taking care of so much of the responsibilities she has for herself (transportation, exercise, etc) - but really, you just make it easier for her to continue her substance and self abuse.
Okay, so at times it is a tightrope walk. Of course you want to be her friend and help her when she truly needs it...you have to examine carefully when she is using you, when you are taking responsibility for her life, and when she genuinely needs your help.
Find some sort of peer-to-peer counseling group that is available in your area if Alanon is not - like with other issues, often the particulars aren't as important as the underlying reason why you enable, and any group counseling can help with that one. Why do I say this? Because you can use the computer well enough to particpate in this forum, but you still ask how to find an Alanon group in your area. Ummmmm...you need to be able to help yourself as much as your friend needs to be able to help herself. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 7:48:51 AM |
advice - how do I get rid of the guy here? Thanks!
Lots of help on dealing with your situation and helping her friend, but she specifically asked about how to get rid of the guy. Most all the posts concentrated on getting "her" to end the relationship. However, it takes two to tango, you could try to convince him to move on.
I realize this isn't the easier of the route, and not likely to work either. He sounds like a piece of crap, but I'll at least give him the benefit of the doubt. He may not consciously know he's doing this, and is in as bad a shape as her needing to break a cycle of his needyness.
Options:
1. Talk to him, convince him to man up and move on to get his life straight first and stop screwing up your friends.
2. Hook him up with some other girl. (Not sure how to do this and not sure it's nice to the other girl)
3. We do live in Arkansas. Round up the cousins and have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with him old school. LOL If we lived in NY, I think they'd call that a "tune up".
In the end, just keep doing what you think is right.
Good luck.
Len | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 8:57:13 AM | | OP - you can't do anything about her boyfriend. It's a no win situation for you that will only create resentment and possibly more abuse. The only one who can get out of an abusive relationship is the abused, and if they are both in AA and he's providing alcohol to her in exchange for sex, it sounds like they are abusing each other. The "13th step" is well known in AA and they both know it's wrong, they both know that he is not the appropriate sponsor for her, and both have decided to either excuse themselves or ignore it. Take advantage of the resources available to you to no longer enable them. They will either find another person to do so or they will figure it out and work on getting better. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 9:05:03 AM | | he is bad news and is playing on her weakness... he is a scum bag and needs to be reported immediately... your friend needs some serious help and I don't think AA is strong enough to do that... she needs an in patient clinic to get her sober and she needs to see a therapist to help her sort all this out and get her life back on track again... she has had too be hard blows at one time and she feels lost and helpless... I do not think she really wants to stop drinking she is using him to get what she wants alcohol and he uses her to get what he wants... sex and everything else... however he should know better and is in fact taking advatange of her situation for his own selfish needs...she definitely needs to be out of this situation because it is heading downhill fast.... | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 9:06:23 AM | i was thinking along similar lines to superlen.
you could send him an anonymous letter telling him you are concerned for his safety and that your girlfriend has herpes (or substitute whatever unpleasant condition/trait you deem appropriate. He wont be able to exhibit his outrage cause he will be outing himself as a thirteenth stepper....at this point it dont matter what your mate thinks of you doing this (she may not find out anyway).. desperate times call for drastic measures.
then after hes dumped her do what akimbo says....she needs a good kick-ass friend like you. Part of the disease is pushing people away, im proud of you for sticking by her. Dont give up your compassion and understanding cause some people like to wash thier hand of those in need and claim "refusal to enable".....good luck to you and her
eeesssh im expecting a bit o' whippin' for this one.... | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 9:08:47 AM | OP, kudos for being such a good friend.
having said that, it's good you recognize that you may be enabling her by responding to her calls for rides, etc. as just about everyone here has said, you can't make anyone change, they need to want to change. moral support is really important, but I imagine you'll have to temper it with some tough love and follow through on calling the police if your friend decides to drive drunk.
I thought AA meetings were only for recovering alcoholics, not support people. I think that's what AlAnon is for, but I could be wrong. check it out and good luck with it!
that "boyfriend-sponsor" is pretty screwed up. who would have assigned him as her sponsor anyway? I thought you had same-sex sponsors just so this crap wouldn't happen. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 9:46:41 AM | | I hate the notion of being a "snitch," but there comes a time in life that we have to do the right thing. I think you need to report her sponser not only for your friend's sake, but because the chances are he is, has or is going to abuse other women. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 10:06:59 AM | | He is a thirteenth stepper that needs kicked in the nuts. There are no rules but guidelines that should be followed. There is no set rule that says you have to have a sponsor of the same sex but it is sugjested. There is no way to "report" him to a group or have anyone do anything about it. Try going to a open meeting (Open anyone can attend, closed only people with a desire to stop drinking can attend) and talking it over with people with years of sobriety in the area, without breaking her anonymity or his. Chances are they will know who you are talking about if it is a smaller community! | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 10:07:38 AM | If you live in F0rt Smith (per your profile) just google Fort Smith Arkansas Alanon . Otherwise, just substitute the name of the town.
I empathize for you in your situation. Afraid to take your hands off of your friend, because she might die (or, kill someone, etc.). I've faced that situation with someone I loved dearly and seemed on the verge of death. Ultimately, in my case, she would/could not surrender and take help until we cut her off completely.
You might look at some of Stephanie Brown's writing on women and recovery. I know what guidance she'd give you - the same guidance she gave us, that we couldn't accept. We did eventually, though.
Go to Alanon. Try at least 3 meetings. | |
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| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 1/25/2009 10:21:50 AM | ............................................................................................................................................
I thought AA meetings were only for recovering alcoholics, not support people. I think that's what AlAnon is for, but I could be wrong. check it out and good luck with it!
Alanon is for families and friends of alcoholics.
AA is for alcoholics who want to get sober. **It is Also for family and friends - however - Not all groups are "open". Find your local AA in the phone book, call and ask them for a Meeting Guide for both AA and Alanon and you will be Welcome at Any Alanon And at Any OPEN AA Group.
**Also - AA does Not take "reports" on its members. AA is a fellowship of men and women banded together for a common cause. There are No leaders, no rulers, no bosses. AA is (supposed to be) a True democracy where each group is Guided by "Group Conscience".
The ONLY requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking
Unfortunately that includes jerkoff predators pretending to be sponsors. Predators tend to frequent spots where their victims are relatively 'vulnerable' and therefore "easy pickins". While the group can't refuse that sort (provided they meet that One requirement) - there are generally group elders (oldtimers) ..ie: people with time in the program (an oldtimer in AA has nothing to do with Age.. it has to do with years of sobriety).
I would be inclined to bring the situation to an Oldtimers attention. This will enable the group to better look out for newcomers and perhaps some of the women / same sex oldtimers would "get in the way" of said predator.
Bottom line - for AA to work your friend has to Want to be sober. Otherwise Nothing will do it.
I hope your friend Wants a better life. And Good for you OP - we could all use more friends with your heart. Thanks.
ps - OP, I have been clean and sober for almost 16 years now - Thanks to AA. If there is any way that I can help you = Please feel free to pm me. | |
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