| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/25/2009 5:01:20 PM | Rockman - why do you think her friend deserves no help?? why also do you think it is her friends choice and she is to blame??
If you enable another who you know has a problem, you are also to blame.
And this post answers your questions very well to.
^^^rockman says what he says because he knows...
but since you asked, in order for anyone to affect change in their life, they have to do it themselves, for themselves. Otherwise it is only happening to placate someone else. It's the same with addicts. You can help them, talk to them, do for them until you are blue in the face, but until they decide to recover, it's not happening.
Us little codependents like to help addicts...including managing their program of recovery for them. We do lots of work for them to make sure their life doesn't completely fall apart...so they don't have to do anything for themselves. They don't like it, and it wears us out. A classic lose-lose situation.
No one ever forces anyone to do something. There is always a choice involved, even if that choice is simply to live or die
- choices are affected by other factors in life......the effects can and also does affect a persons ability to choose!!
Nope. Excuses are affected by other factors of life.
Do you think all addicts decide one day they will just become an addict.....lol i dont think so.
That has nothing to do with this at all. We are talking about someone who knows they are a drunk and has relapse!
I totally agree that it is down to the individual to bring about change in their life but it is not as simple as they choose too and its their fault.
Try that argument with a judge during a bail hearing for the friends 2 nd DUI arrest!
and this one knows what she is talking about aswell
Pass that one by your sponsor, I'm sure they could use the laugh! | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/25/2009 5:03:17 PM | She is a recovering alcoholic and fell off the wagon....hard! Know that because I have personally made a few midnite runs myself to get her home safely. My question is this - her "sponsor" is also her sometimes boyfriend and provides her with alcohol to get his way. Sex or anything else - kinda plays what ever he want's on her addiction & she does it! Don't understand it
That sucks.
It could be a co-dependancy issue. It might not be exactly as you perceive it, but it very well may be exactly as you perceive it.
Alcoholism is a very complex issue.
thought AA had rules?
I would have thought so as well. If she is still going, I think I'd bring it to the attention of their AA chapter.
Want to tell her to walk away from this man and find a real sponsor but she is convinced he is the only one who really "cares" about her & considers me a nag.
That's classic. Being oppositional with someone who's not going through the same thing as them, as they are going through withdrawl.
What can I do to help her as I am very concerned for her well being - we were like sisters growing up?!? Any advice - how do I get rid of the guy here? Thanks!
If you really can't make any impact on her yourself, it's probably best to contact as many close friends and family and attempt an intervention. | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/25/2009 5:41:13 PM | This thread is an interesting insight for me, as an Australian into US culture. The whole concept of AA as a distinct social welfare body, sponsers and so forth I've only really heard of on US television shows/movies. It's actually pretty interesting and kinda cute to see it as a socialised concern, like talking to kids to seriously believe in the Easter Bunny (I'm not demeaning the obvious value of AA or anything, just saying I live in a different country with a different culture and different social perspective).
Certainly we have limey b@stards around here who get vulnerable women drunk or drugged to get in their pants when they feel like it, or just to have a self satisfying power over them.
Would I be correct in suggesting many sponser are former alcoholics themselves?
Anyway I think it is pretty much exactly like date rape, feeding an admited addict their substance of abuse in order to manipulate them for self gratifying purposes.
And you know what, I'll just bet that could be proved in a civil proceding.
Okay assuming we don't have frivolous amounts of cash to toss at a courtroom and handle the situation in the American way, I'd agree with the advice posted in the thread of turning up at the AA meetings from which this "sponser" and the OP's friend is a member and causing some social trouble. Oust this rotten person as a manipulative and self serving influence hardly interested in your friend's well being, yell some accusations, not slanderous but suggestive enough to get some attention, and act like a concerned citizen and problem which is definitely not going to go away. Threaten civil action, talk about imaginary lawyer friends, be such a nuisance that the meeting organiser will want to have some words with this "sponser" just to shut you up.
Yes, I've just been watching reruns of Boston Legal, but the point is pertinent.
Look out for your friend, do whatever this entails, within the scope of the law. And if she hates you for it, it'll pass when she's better, at which time she'll be thanking you. Or she might call you out as a nosey busy body poking her nose where it doesn't belong, who knows, but you will certainly feel productive in the meantime. | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/25/2009 6:14:00 PM | | HI, HAVE YOU ASKED YOUR FRIEND IF SHE WANTS TO GIVE UP ALCOHOL? EVEN IF SHE SAYS NO, SHE DOES NEED TO. AN INTERVENTION IS CRITICAL. SHE CAN BE PLACED IN A REHAB CENTER WHERE SHE WILL GET HELP FOR THE ALCOHOL AND FOR HER MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES BECAUSE OF ALL THE STRESS SHE HAS AND FOR HER TO LEARN AND UNDERSTAND WHY SHE IS WITH THIS MAN. SHE NEEDS TO BE EDUCATED ABOUT HER LIFE AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND WHY SHE IS SO EMOTIONALLY NEEDY THAT SHE WILL STAY WITH A MAN SUCH AS THIS. AS YOU MENTIONED, HE PREYS ON HER EMOTIONALL/MENTALLY. SHE IS BEING ABUSED IN THESE WAYS AND ALSO PHYSICALLY. SHE NEEDS IMMEDIATE HELP FOR ALL THESE REASONS AND SHE IS ALSO CO-DEPENDANT WITH THIS MAN. SO I HOPE YOU CAN GET A FEW PEOPLE TO DO AN INTERVENTION----CAN EVEN ONLY BE ONE OR ONE OR TWO-----PEOPLE THAT LOVE HER AND SHE LOVES'''''. GREATEST THING ONE CAN DO IS TO LOVE HER UNCONDITIONALLY SO SHE KNOWS SHE CAN CALL ON THEM SOMEDAY IF SHE CHOOSES THAT. NO ONE JUDGING HER. NO ONE BUYING HER LIQUOR AND KEEPING HER ADDICTION GOING; THIS IS NOT AN ACT OF LOVE. PRAYER TO JESUS IS THE GREATEST WEAPON WE HAVE AGAINST STRONGHOLDS IN OUR LIVES OR AGAINST SOMELONE ELSE'S LIFE. I KNOW THIS IS TRUE AS I AM A CHRISTIAN AND I HAVE SEEN THE POWER OF GOD COMPLETELY DELIVER A PERSON FROM DRUGS, ALCOHOL, ANYTHING THAT WAS A STRONGHOLD IN THEIR LIFE, MEN AND WOMEN HAVE GIVEN TESTIMONIES OF THEIR DELIVERANCES. MY OLDER BROTHER HAS A HEALING MINISTRY AND HE HAS SEEN SUCH DELIVERANCES FIRST HAND. IF SHE REPENTS OF HER SINS AND ACCEPTS JESUS AS HER LORD AND SAVIOR THEN SHE WOULD GET TO A GOOD BIBLE STUDYING CHURCH, SHE WILL BE STRENGTHENED EACH DAY OR GOD MIGHT CHOOSE TO DELIVER HER ALL AT ONCE AND SHE WILL HELP MANY PEOPLE. SO THE GREATEST AND BEST THING SOMEONE CAN DO FOR HER IS PRAYER. SHE NEEDS PRACTICAL HELP TO GET AWAY FROM THIS MAN. MY PRAYERS ARE WITH HER AND YOU AS HER FRIEND AS YOU TRY TO GET HER TO A SAFE PLACE AND GET HER AN INTERVENTION AND INTO THE HOSPITAL/REHAB. SMILES4444 | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/25/2009 8:30:47 PM | | there are 3 dynamics going on here. 1) addiction 2) co-dependency 3) abusive relationship...offer to go with her to womens meetings, go early, make coffee, set up chairs, pass out books, meet with members after. if she drinks at night go at night. stay with her for a few meetings, until she feels she has found a home. the women can help her from there. she may reject it all if she hasnt suffered enough. alanon meetings for you. if you dont like it find another one. keep trying until you find one that fits. find yourself a sponsor. work the steps. take "suggestions" whenever you can. they will show you how to be a friend without enabling her. the language of letting go by melody beattie will be helpful to you both. rehab is great if she will go. it will create the much needed distance between her and the boyfriend. abusive relationships grow in the darkness of isolation. meetings and meaningful connections to other women will shine some light and reveal it for what it is. shell hear women with similar stories and regain a sense of normalcy. the seed will be planted and she will get closer and closer to reality. they will love her until she loves herself. there will be strong desire (even for women who know better to pressure her to leave him). i hope she does, but her sobrity doesnt depend on it. people can and do stay sober in bad relationships. it isnt ideal, but it happened for me and countless others. its true that aa is for those who want it. we cant predict who those people are. ive seen people who were court ordered and planned on drinking when they finished the court order. many have remained sober. they kept making meetings till meetings made sense. recovery is a long hard process for you both. "dont leave before the miracle" | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/25/2009 10:02:54 PM | dona:
choices are affected by other factors in life......the effects can and also does affect a persons ability to choose!!
it's still about making a choice. Different people, affected by similar life factors, make different choices. And it's not about finding fault. It's about learning.
I can relate many true stories to illustrate this from my own and close friends' life factors, but I won't here. Please send a message to me directly if you would like to share stories. I'm sure you have some too...based on your posts here. | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/26/2009 12:47:38 AM | I meet many people here in Bangkok with sad stories, they complain, but don't change. What they all have in common is that the want attention that way. complain about life, get sympathy.. that's what they live for. They know what is better for them, but won't change.
In life, shit happens.
I believe in tough love. When someone needs me, I'll be there.. but when someone comes with sad stories and doesn't change his/her life, I bluntly tell them that I am not interested in hearing the same old same old. Sometimes, when people realize that a friendship is on the line, they wake up. | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/26/2009 4:27:56 PM | RE: rockman we have differences of opinions and for the record i dont have a sponsor.
If you think what goes on around the person has no influence whatsoever on their drinking choices then thats your opinion and i can see you dont have an open mind on this matter so no point saying anymore on choices or blame huh.
We are taking about an addict and not about being sentenced. Courts deal with peoples behaviours not the cause of them. | |
|
| |
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/26/2009 4:39:23 PM | What do you do?
You go to where she has her AA meetings and report this guy. Her 'sponser' is not supposed to be her part time boyfriend, nor is he supposed to be giving her liquor.
Who cares if she considers you a nag? Contact the local AA branch and tell them what is going on. This creep is probably doing it with other women also. | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/26/2009 5:01:55 PM |
RE: rockman we have differences of opinions and for the record i dont have a sponsor.
If you think what goes on around the person has no influence whatsoever on their drinking choices then thats your opinion and i can see you dont have an open mind on this matter so no point saying anymore on choices or blame huh.
Your typing with your eyes closed, yet it's me thats closed minded?
No doubt I would have drank myself do death with your type of support. Thank god I had people who knew what the feck they where talking about around me when I had to make a choice. | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/26/2009 5:07:17 PM | | In AA, the sponsor is supposed to be the same sex, not sure why her sponsor is male, unless he's an "unofficial" sponsor....she needs a female sponsor, that's why there's the rule, so it doesn't turn into a sexual relationship | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/26/2009 5:20:40 PM | | RE: Beeherenow...I am drawing upon personal, professional, A.A and also other addicts views. I had similar views to the majority here at one time and i now understand many different reasons why people have an addiciton. I have come across so many derogatory views of its their choice and their to blame it pissess me off now. Aye we all at the end of the day make a choice but i wish people would understand it is not that simple to just either decide to stop drinking and stay sober or end up on a road of dependency. There are other factors n i will stand by that one as it took me long enough to get my head round it!!! | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/26/2009 5:30:01 PM | | Rockman i dont want a typing arguement but youve offended me, I support people from ther perception of their problem so it would be their choice on which support they required. (enabling choice!!) Aye their maybe differences of opinions on how best to support them but i dont tell people what they need to do in their life, they know better than me and if you are saying this is what works for you - great!!!! but think about what is being said .............. she deserves no help as she will ony get a bigger poor me so leave her...........c'mon, she doesnt need sympathy, she needs empathy and support not isolated further | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/26/2009 8:21:53 PM | Wow, her sponsor is doing this to her? Then clearly, he's NOT truly clean and sober and not what a sponsor is supposed to be. What a jerk.
Unfortunately, some predatory men use AA or NA meetings to "use" vulnerable women for their own devices, and this includes their ongoing sexual addiction.
I know this is an older thread...but I hope she's found another AA meeting by now, and another sponsor. | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/26/2009 8:41:47 PM | Dona...you most likely don't realize that your responses are only validating both Rockman's and my viewpoints on choice and personal responsibility. As a matter of fact, you sound exactly like a very close friend of mine who very nearly drank himself to death and is coming up on his 4th "birthday" soon. Just recently he has shifted from your presented viewpoint to that of Rockman...and admitted he was wrong before.
But that's okay. We three are entitled to our opinions, aren't we?
I do sincerely hope you find success in your chosen path. | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/26/2009 9:07:17 PM | | they have a saying in aa, let go with love.... be her friend, dont be her mother, she has a choice daily whether to drink or not...let her be the one to make that choice. A sponser or a person walking down the street or a drug dealer, does not inflict a choice on whether anyone someone is going to ruin thier life or not... so just focus on you and support your friend as a friend. | |
|
| Serious question here...want to hear from those who know
Posted: 7/26/2009 9:11:40 PM | If he isn't getting his way with anything illegal you may just end up being sol. You can try everything you want and if she wants to deny it t doesn't matter how valid your points are.
Sometimes they have to hit the ground before they realize they were falling all along. Then they can pick themselves up.
Sounds like you'll be there to help her up. | |
|
Home
login 
