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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/21/2009 8:11:37 AM | I don't know about the numbers of who does the initiating, but the reason statistically for divorce is different for men than women.
Research from several different countries and cultures indicates that men divorce because thier partner had a physical relationship with another man, women divorce because the man was in an emotional relationship with another woman, or was not emotionally present in the relationship.
This comes from a book based on evolutionary psychology called "The Evolution of Desire." It is a good book and puts relationships in the context of evolution, the idea that man creates enough genetic material in a week to populate the earth four times over, his goal to further his line is to put as much out there as he can. (Explains why sex is so important to men) But a woman only creates about 400 eggs in a life time, as well she needs support while being pregnant and while the child is small, so to guarantee the survival of her line, she needs the commitment of resources. (Explains why commitment is so important to women)
Obviously this is just a base, people are much more complex than just evolutionary urges, you have enviroment and upbringing that play an important role as well, but maybe women initiate divorce more often than men because it is harder to fake emotionally sincerety than it is to hide a indiscretion outside the marriage. Think about it, if the women goes and has a one time thing with a guy, it is easy to hide that, but if someone is emotionally unavailable it is much harder to hide. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/21/2009 9:16:52 AM | Tell you the truth I was not totally sure the reasons why women initiated, so I did look around:
The Brinig-Allen study also explodes the myth of the brutish husband, finding, for instance, that cruelty is cited in only 6% of divorce applications in Virginia, one of the few states that still uses fault grounds for divorce. More women than men obtain desertion-based divorces in Virginia, but adultery cases are evenly split between men and women. Theories abound as to why it is so often women who file. Janis Magnusson, a Calgary divorce mediator, says she frequently sees women with unreal expectations of marriage and their partners. "Women expect a Prince Charming, while men just want a wife, sex, food and a job," she says. "I did avoid conflict," her husband admits. "I'm a police officer and I treat words as bullets. I know you don't get them back. However, both my wives also had unrealistic ideas. I wasn't playing the husband role the way they perceived it in the fairy tale world. But men are different. They don't believe in gift horses or fairy tales." "In informal surveys in my classes," reports Prof. Brinig, "women say they thought marriage and courtship were alike. Men seem to feel that when they're married they can be themselves because they have succeeded in the battle." I do believe, after spending time reading so many forum responses, that some women do hold on to a unrealistic idea what marriage is suppose to be like, then compared to real life. However, divorce rates are plunging in states where courts typically award custody of children to both parents. A study headed by Richard Kuhn of the Children's Rights Council based in Washington, D.C., found that states with higher levels of joint custody awards in 1989 and 1990 "have shown significantly greater declines in divorces in the following years through 1995, compared with other states." Overall divorce rates declined nearly four times faster in high joint-custody states compared with states where joint custody is relatively rare. A large factor, the researchers believe, is that joint custody removes the capacity for one spouse to hurt the other by denying participation in raising the children." From another source:
The main reason for more and more women opting for divorce is that it is now an option available to them. They can divorce without the social stigma. They are financially independent and have the power to run a family. There are also legal laws in their favour like ’no fault divorce, single parent custody, child support’ and so on.
As against popular belief and as has been protested by some religious organizations, women are not asking for divorce due to frivolous reasons. Favourable laws are not instigating women to ask for divorce. They are supporting women long contemplating the move.
Women are not initiating divorce on a whim. They are making this choice after carefully considering the larger context and factors relating to life while remaining married versus life after divorce. They are fully aware of the negative consequences of divorce on their life and on their children. They file for divorce when they see that life after separation is still preferable to staying married. The consequences of staying married are much worse than those of being divorced.
I think it is for various reasons, not just one. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/21/2009 9:31:22 AM | | No I filed for mine , she commited adultry and I couldn't live with that. As for staying in it for the kids sake . I have seen too many kids messed up over seeing their parents in a loveless marriage they are not stupid they see it. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/21/2009 10:46:37 AM | I was married for 21 years. The last 10 years or so the marriage just kept going downhill. She had no education, worked part time for minimum wage (sporadically), I paid all bills and expenses for the entire time. Should have left WAY sooner but I knew I'd be f*cked financially. Well the sh*t hit the fan and I left (no cheating or abuse, I just couldn't stand her anymore, and she couldn't stand me). I consulted a lawyer and he said "yep, you're f*cked". I hired a mediator for like $2,000 to get legally separated (NYS law says you need to be legally separated for one year in order to get a no fault divorce). Separation agreement tallied all marital assets (house, cars, savings, my 401K) and SPLIT them. She ended up getting the house with all furnishings, the newer of two vehicles, AND I pay her $35,000 / year in child support and alimony, I pay for 2 out of three children college costs (the oldest already finished college, which I paid for), I pay for kids cell phones, and I pay her and the kids health insurance (hers will drop after divorce is final - oh dear what will she do). Youngest child was 14 at the time.
So, yep, I got f*cked. But at least there's an end. Am I happy and was it worth it? H3LL YES!!!
And oh yea, we went to counselling for months (my idea). After numerous visits, guess what they said? "You should get divorced". Nice. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/21/2009 1:14:21 PM |
She had no education, worked part time for minimum wage (sporadically), I paid all bills and expenses for the entire time.
Did you know she had no education at the time you married? You have an MA, why didn't she go back to school?
You paid all the bills and the expenses, did you take on the primary child raising responsibilities, clean the house, cook the meals, do the laundry? If you did, what did she do? Sit around watching soap operas? If you didn't do all those things, then she did her part.
My ex was the primary "breadwinner"; I merely raised the kids, cleaned the house, cooked the meals, did the laundry, mowed the lawn, and repaired what I could around the house. What kind of price can be put on that? | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/21/2009 2:22:42 PM | I ended the marriage, but my ex ended up filing before me.
I was just plain miserable, had been very unhappy for many years, but stuck it out as long as I could. My ex was abusive, mentally and emotionally. Nothing I did was right, he constantly accused me of cheating (I never did), complained that I didn't "match his pay", yet he would throw a fit and accuse me of lieing about where I was if I took on extra hours at work. I could go on and on...
We did go to counselling after we had an argument during our daughter's counselling session (our misery was really effecting the kids in a bad, bad way). Her counsellor became ours, and at one point, she told me that he just sees things his way, and probably won't ever see any other way. He told me that I don't care about our kids, because I wanted out. Not too long ago, my oldest son told me that he is "happy" we got divorced. Our lives are so much calmer and more peaceful now.
I think women probably file (or end the marriage) first because men have more "freedom" in the relationship. I worked part time, but was home full-time taking care of the kids, the house, the cooking, the laundry, the shopping...being "everything to everyone". If I wanted to go out, I had to clear with him that he'd be home for the kids. He, however, could come and go as he pleased, me being there was always a given. Of course, there is so much more to the story, but I felt I had done all I could do, and the only option besides divorce was a life of misery. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/21/2009 2:30:35 PM | | This is true. I had "stepped out" of my marriage 3 years into it, but she endured another 3 of trying hopelessly to get me to re-invigorate myself in it. Bottom line, I just didn't want to deal with the cold feeling of getting a new place on my own, and as little as I was putting into the marriage, I knew I would feel worse being completely alone, so I lumped along half-assed. She was very lonely in the marriage because of that, and ultimately I agree women have a much better ability to get things done in areas like this. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/21/2009 8:39:22 PM | I'm not tooting my own horn here, but are my ex & I the only mature adults around here? We are divorcing without lawyers & without childish games. We did not "stay together for the kids"...this is the stupidest thing that I hear & I hear it a lot. Why would two people unhappily c0-exist together just so the kids don't freak out? Dumb. We share custody, help each other out on off weeks, both go to their activities (seperately), etc. Neither of us are asking the other for money. There is no materialistic-ness at all. We are doing EVERYTHING (EXCEPT STAYING TOGETHER) for the kids & doing it in a mature way.
P.S. there is a lot of drama involving the divorce too, but get over it! | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 4:53:49 AM | | ^^^^Kudos to you and your ex. Unfortunately it takes two mature adults to do what you and your ex are doing. Just like one person can't make the marriage work, one person can't make the divorce work. I really tried to keep my ex involved in his childrens lives. He wanted to dedicate 8 hours a week to them and nothing more because he had a life. I learned the hard way it was not up to me to maintain his relationships with his children. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 5:59:22 AM | | Women tend to be a little more childish than men.The first time that they dont get their way, the spoiled little children run to the court house to file papers. I think the women need to grow up. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 6:08:24 AM | I think you need to grow up also jjerry.
Did it every occur to you that most people have mutual agreements and it doesn't matter who the applicant or the respondent is? | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 6:21:48 AM | UGGH Have
you ever read the womens profiles. Its not hard to figure out why they are single. Most often it is the woman that wants the divorce,and for childish selfish reasons. Just read a few of their profiles and see for yourself. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 6:23:32 AM | Women file more often because most of them already have someone else on the side.
Even if they don't have someone lined up already, they know how easy it is for them to get laid.
They also think they will get whatever they want in the divorce.
Car, furniture, house or money.
They are greedy and don't care about anyone but themself... | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 6:35:59 AM | It's men like jjerry that make my blood boil. I initiated everything and I'm glad I did. I spent 17 years in a verbally abusive situation with a raging alcoholic. I had to struggle to keep the lights on, food on the table and a roof over our heads. He'd clean out our joint checking account so he could go out to dinner with others and have all the alcohol and drugs he wanted while he never asked once what we needed to leave in the account to cover the bills. It was just expected that I'd take care of it however I had to take care of it. I worked two and three jobs at times while he said "I work my 40 hours, I'm done." That joint checking account didn't last long because I got tired of that crap.
Let's add in being screamed at and yelled at until 1 or 2 in the morning most nights, keeping up everyone in the house, having the police called to my house by my then 9 year old daughter because he was throwing furniture at me. I had enough!!!!!!!! We were behind in house payments, the bank was foreclosing, all the loans and credit stuff was in my name. So I lost my home and am still paying off personal loans that were taken out to try and make it. I filed all the paperwork myself with forms I got at the local library, I never used a lawyer and I paid for all the court costs. He never showed up to any court hearings and said we wouldn't divorce because he wouldn't sign the papers. In my state he didn't have to.
Was I looking to get out to find another man? Hardly. All I wanted was peace in my house and the stability of knowing where my money was. BTW, I had to drag him through the courts using Social Services which costs me $25 to make him pay child support. We never had a legal agreement and I just expected that he would do the right thing, boy was I ever stupid. So when he got a new girlfriend, he magically didn't have any money for the kids anymore.
I am very happy in my life now. I do have a SO who is 180 degrees opposite from my ex. Will I marry him? I doubt it, I quite like being in charge of my own life. So to all you men who think women file because they think their supposed to have Prince Charming or everything is supposed to be perfect, here's one woman who only wanted some peace and quiet in her life.
Let me add a caveat here. Men like my ex husband think that women will stay in the relationship because that's what we're supposed to do, that we'll never make it on our own or any number of other rationalizations a man like this can come up with. 50 years ago, someone like me would have stayed in the marriage because divorce was completely taboo and scandalous. Thank goodness for modern times. You can rest assured I will not have divorce number 2 and I will do whatever it takes to make that happen even if it includes never marrying again. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 6:41:37 AM | | Maybe they think Chivalry is dead? They want to better themselves over sticking threw think and thin. I could see grounds for divorce for adultery, abuse or being a bad father but anything else is petty. Im only divorced because I filed. Ill never marry a bad girl again :D | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 6:53:22 AM | ...........................................................................................................................................
Statistics?? lol - 9.73% of all statistics are wrong 64.7 % of the time. 
In my case, it's been over 20 years. Our marriage was over Before either of us acknowledged it. The circumstances are really irrelevant - bottom line - We were not a good match.
We were Both young, both had issues and I'm not sure that either of us "married" for the Right reason. Honestly - I "Still" don't know If he has a middle name!! hehehe. Anyway, apparently it (marriage) wasn't as bad for him - he did it all again! ((I was happy for them, til he contacted me last year .. 20years after the divorce!- him dropping hints about us getting back together (WHAT!?!!) and why? - well apparently his true love has a heart condition!! - whatta jerk! .. so I told him I had a heart condition too and he Never called back! .. God I feel sorry for her!))
OT: I moved out, refused to come back, so he filed. He also filed because he was anxious to do it all again. I really didn't and still don't care to sign up for the church or state to "approve" of Any of my relationships! **Never did believe in the "institute of marriage" .. I only did it back then because I was Young and didn't really Think about what I was doing. hehe .. He had a nice as$, nice car, partied the same as I did .. the sex was damned fine .. I guess we shoulda done more Communicating eh!! ;)
These days, the furthest I will go is "Co-habitating". What's mine is mine, what's yours is yours. What we acquire together is Ours. In the event it "doesn't work out" - you take yours, I'll take mine and anything that we can't split "amicably" we sell and split the change. No Liars (lawyers). No B.S.
**Oh .. and I keep my kitty! ;)
ps
Those of you with "issues" - ie anymosity toward the opposite sex - What the H are you doing on a Dating site??? And did you know your Woman/Man Hating posts show up on your profile and Stay there in your history?
That's the kind of BAGGAGE Most of us avoid like the plague!! | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 6:59:38 AM | lady looking What ever happen to till death do we part ---- For better or worse----I am not saying your husband was not an a--hole,but I have only heard your side of the story.I will bet his is a lot differnt. I takes two people to have a fight. And trust me ,not
,all women are as sweet as candy.If you read your post,it seems it was all about you and what you did and what you wanted. What about your husband and what he wanted or needed.How about getting him some help with his drinking problem. But then maybe you did when you divorced him.maybe now he dont have a reason yo drink. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 7:06:43 AM | | I've been divorced for quite some time. I initiated it but I was not the one to file first. Because I didn't, he tool the initiative to. So, I ended up having to pay a lot less to my lawyer. I would have if I could have afforded it. I was ready to end it and move on. He wanted to work things on and I was not interested. I think men have a harder time dealing with divorce then women do. Of course, it's just my opinion. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 7:10:50 AM | jjerry, that's right you haven't heard his side. I did try to help him stop drinking. We went to counseling together, he attended AA for a short period and we even went to Consumer Credit Counseling to try and get our finances straightened out. I gave it 17 years so don't say I didn't try. He got himself fired intentionally from a job he'd had for 19 years and 2 months. All he had to do was work ten more months and he could have started to draw a retirement but he just decided he'd rather sit at home and draw unemployment which he did until the benefits ran out. Each week I filled out his claim and put down the places where I'd send resumes to via the Internet. He never once tried to find a job on his own. My father got him a job and that lasted about two months.
And as for what my husband wanted and needed? He got that. He wanted to sit on his ass, watch TV and get sloppy drunk every day by 5pm. As for not drinking, all he had to do was drive right on by the store and not buy it. I did the grocery shopping so he had no reason he had to stop.
jjerry you have never been subjected to someone who drinks like this. They consume your whole life, they are miserable and they want to take everyone around them down with them. I've not bad mouthed him to our kids because I really just don't care but guess what? They were old enough to see how he was and now they don't have squat to do with him. Which he didn't care about anyway until he broke up with his g/f and then he called me crying that he needed me and the kids. Guess he should have thought about that 5 years ago.
Men, help me out here. I know some of you have experienced this as well. Wives who are drunks or drug abusers. Let jjerry know how it feels to be a man in this situation and how long you tolerated it until you'd had enough.
And one last thing jjerry, if it's supposed to be til death do you part, why are you on here looking for another woman? You're separated and possibly on your way to divorce but I guess you get a special dispensation. If you don't know what that means, go to www.dictionary.com and look it up. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 7:19:57 AM | | I know exactly what you mean. My husband also had the best of both worlds , I loved him with all my heart, supported him with our business, single handedly raise our children, do all the cooking, cleaning, etc. and how did he repay this, by cheating on me and leaving every detail on the family computer for me to find. Talk about having your cake and eat it - I hope he chokes. He now wants to come back. No I don't think men do initiate divorce as much as women. I think he is having a laugh - 19 years thrown away for a fling which lasted about a month. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 7:23:11 AM | | Lady looking I was married 33 years. The last three were pure hell.yes she was a hardcore drunk. She wanted nothing todo with getting along. We fought every day for three years.She cost us a hell of a lot of money.All she wanted to do is drink drink and drink.she would not get help. I through her out. End of sad story. P>S> Being a manHA HA I am wating for HER to file the papers. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 7:26:54 AM | | Where did you do you research? I made my ex husband file for the divorce ? He the mess so he paid for the clean up | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 7:36:10 AM | | So why are you ranking on me jjerry????????? Yours was 33 years of putting up with that and mine was 17. I would like to have seen him clean himself up and I did everything in my power to help him but obviously you know that the only person that can help a drunk is themselves. Enough said. | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 7:45:17 AM | Well for me it’s 50/50, I filled on my first wife (high school sweetheart) because she was a liar and a cheat. No biggie we were young, had no assets or children, no contest divorce, $199.00 dollars plus court costs.
My second wife filled because she decided she was too independent minded to be married and actually work together as partners in the marriage and raising a child together (paraphrased, but those were her words), plus she had what she wanted, a child, and knew that because of the child she would get everything, the house, child support, and best of all in her eyes, no man around to disagree with her boneheaded ideas.
She also had a couple of divorced friends that painted a rosy picture of independence and freedom, unfortunately her friends children were grown so they left out just how hard & lonely being a single mom in her 40’s with a young child was going to be. Rather typical actually, as her and her friends always were rather short sighted in their long term thinking.  | |
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| Calling All Divorcees
Posted: 1/22/2009 7:49:33 AM | | Lady looking I was talking about women in general. Read some of their profiles. They got dovorced for some very childish or selfish reasons. everyone lies about something , most everyone cheats if they are married long enough or have the chance to.You cant expect to get every thing you want.Your lucky if you get what you need. It takes two people to make it work for a life time as you surly know. you made 17 years, good luck fishing. | |
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