| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 1/31/2009 7:26:00 AM | Most likely the reason she felt she didn't need representation was she had previously walked out of a courtroom four previous times with nothing more than a scolding and a smirk on her face.
We are not going to say that the father was a saint, most likely far from it but is that the point really?
She was in control because of custody and used the system totally to her advantage enough as an attempt to destroy any possible relationship those kids would have.
When you add in the obvious attempts at poisoning the thoughts and views of those children by their own admission how could the judge not rule as she did.
It wasn't a slam at women but finally a bit of justice that is so missing from the courts today.
I for one would vote to make family court public and only draw the line when children had to testify, then the cameras could be off.
It would be so much harder to lie knowing that anyone could view those lies and come forth to shed a little light to find the actual truth. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 1/31/2009 7:49:08 AM |
When K. D. questioned A. L. at the opening of the trial, she was self-represented. comment from pg125 in the ruling.
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2009/2009canlii943/2009canlii943.pdf
The minute I read that one sentance...combined with the other finacial factors that were in favour of the Father...I had some serious questions...as I am sure alot of others had.
You know Elizabeth, there are some who still say the Holocaust never happened either!
So perhaps to be fair for you and your denial that this issue is a problem perhaps you might care to elaborate what would a custodial ((and I use custodial rather than mother since I suggest both genders are capable of it)) what would a custodial have to do before the courts should act appropriately and remove a child or children in favour of the other parent?
Because...based on your self admitted caustic wit...your self proclaimed advocate for arguing that PAS is not sound science...I imagine easily that you are probably not unlike some of these woman who have plenty of caustic and sarcastic comments that you level directly and indirectly towards your ex and probably in front of your children.
Yet unlike yourself I find it appalling that this mother may have been in contempt on 5 court orders dating back to 2000. No doubt you will argue that the courts were simply all acting againts this poor woman who based on the documents of 34 pages was represented as I could not find pg 125 on your link provided.
But with little to no respect...What would be enough documented issues for you to support a child or children being removed from their mother and court mandated counseling be required?
Elizabeth...why not go to page 9 paragraph 40 where a Dr. Fidler concluded in 2000 that the children were at significant risk for becoming aligned with their mother and in turn alienated from their father. This Dr. Fidler based HER findings on observations and experiences between to the parents. No doubt you will deny this importance!
But why dont you read page 11 paragraph[49] where the father was accepting the mothers rule and was left shouting goodnight as he was unable to see his children.
But it seems you support this woman. that speaks volumes in respect to where you are I might suggest!
I think she should be ashamed of herself for behaving so badly in front of her children.
I am also not sold on the Dad playing the part of the innocent victim in this situation either.
Be honest, if you paid over 50,000 for a lawyer you would expect them to manipulate and twist all of the facts to benefit your case wouldn't you?..
Come on Elizabeth.....I am not stupid enough to ever suggest that in this type of acrimony that both are not guilty of some misconduct. But at what point would you ever be critical of the woman and suggesting custody be reversed. I suggest that you would NEVER support this premise and that no matter what a mother did..you would find some issue in which to blame the father. And lawyers at least good ones will never support perjury but no doubt there are those who manipulate the truth. But one would imagine that after being in court 6+++times...the judges would have realized it somewhere...but you will no doubt suggest this poor woman was taken advantage of at every point. Refusal to accept reality is interesting in what it says of character.
And Elizabeth...the judgement reads that the mother was represented by Charles Amissah-Ocran who is a lawyer in Brampton
Full Name Charles Ato Amissah-Ocran
Licence Type Lawyer
Real Estate Insured † Yes
Status Status definitions In Private Practice
Business Name
Business Address 414-7700 Hurontario St
Brampton Ontario
L6Y 4M3
Phone 905 457 7180
Fax 905 457 7783
Email address Withheld
And equally the children were represented by a lawyer. Elizabeth McCarty
So no doubt you will spin some terrible conspiracy about how the courts after $50,000 was manipulated. What is a shame is perhaps many men are forced to walk away from such litigation as simply they are unable to afford the cost finacially or even emotionally!
The only ones who are suffering right now are those three kids caught in the middle of this huge drama. How is that "fair" or what "justice" does that serve?
And you are right and with the father it is suggested they will get the help and counselling they need as he suggests he will foster a relationship with both parents...something they were not getting nor would have received with the mother. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 1/31/2009 7:55:11 AM |
Sorry to disapoint ya...not the case these days..I must have worn him down!!
I personally would never be proud to suggest this! But to each their own. If that empowers you then I might suggest your priorities are misplaced.
I have always been more interested in what is best for the children and finding equal accessibility and accountiblity to the children and the same rules or expectation in respect to conduct be applied to both parties. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 1/31/2009 8:02:20 AM | The OP was asking for advice in her own personal situation, but two pages of this thread has become the personal debate of three people rather then opinions or advice on her actual question. I think that's a shame.
Would Tealwood, Captain and Lizbeth like me to start a thread about your topic so you can discuss and debate to your heart's content? It's a valid topic, but it's distracting from this topic.
Nutt | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 1/31/2009 8:54:43 AM | Liz:
As Teal has stated when is it enough. 5 court orders ignored over a 10 year period with what it seem to me complete disregard for the courts.
I have seen this personally with my best friend as he has been alienated from his son for the past 11 years. He has been to court now 3 times and each time the judge admonished his son's mother, told her to smarten up and then nothing because what recourses do the courts really have against those that will deny access. He almost went bankrupt trying to just get access. If I breach my court order for paying support, I will lose my credit rating, then my drivers license and possibly face jail time. But if my ex decided that I should not see my daughter then what is the recourse, go back to court multiple times.
As for my friend his son is now in university and will graduate next year. He tried contacting his son but his mother has piosoned the relationship to the point where the response was basically that he had only a few months left at school, he would be done paying and that he wouldn't have to deal with him anymore. The interesting part of the e-mail is where his son lashed out by saying that paying for his university in no way makes up for not paying child support, never sending him a presents or cards for christmas and birthdays etc.... and how he had heard that he can sue him for the missing child support. Strange thing is my friend has all of his cancelled cheques, all of the presents, cards etc.. all neatly stored away. Love to see his son's reaction when he realizes his mother has been lying to him all these years.
So, how much is enough liz. Is 10 years enough and if taking custody away is not the answer, what would be appropriate so that those that deny access know that there are consequences for their actions. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 1/31/2009 3:39:31 PM | What I find interesting after reading this thread in it's entirety is that no one is suggesting to the OP that she do what this man in the case cited by the OP did. If her ex is bashing her to her children, is he not guilty of what this woman did to her children's father?
There is a need to give children access to both parents because it is assumed that is the best for children. Clearly in situations where the children are being subjected to derogatory comments from either parent (or both) access is not in the best interests of the child until that can stop.
I have to wonder why the courts don't request psychological assessments be made of the two parents and the children in situations like this - where the divorce was indeed high conflict. The courts should be considering best interests of child. When there is smoke, there may indeed be fire and the courts should be looking closely at this to protect children. There is a solution to he said/she said comments coming before the courts....get a third party impartial assessment of the situation and the potential impact on the children. Force via the courts for any parent having difficulty dealing with an ex to get counselling. Heal the parent and the child gets the best of it because they get two emotionally healthy parents to love. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 1/31/2009 6:36:08 PM | i'm a single dad. i have 2 teens living with me an 2 more living near by going to college and working. my 2 youngest, a boy16. and girl 17 have no use for their mother. 17 years of marriage, 4 kids, i was responsible for half the fighting. now, i hear my kids tell me stories about why they fight with their mother. while i was away working, the kids watched their mother and heard things she said and did. after the devorce, my one daughter got in a big fight with her mom and some of her moms friends. it seems they were all sitting around a table drinkin coffee while kids all played. my daughter was about 10, there was about 5 mothers. the topic was always bad mouthing men and husbands. my daughter and other kids would listen to moms bashings dads and one day, my daughter told one woman and her mom to stfu about her dad, she was tired of always hearing them talk shit about her dad and other dads. turned into a big fight.
anyways, kids are older and don't have much to do with their mom. i'm not angel and sure not perfect , yet, i figure i'm a pretty good dad. what i see mostly out there is kids being brought up always hearing how bad men are . now alot of those boys are growing up and getting devorced pretty quick themselves .(were did they learn about how to treat a woman a marriage) the young girls grow up to be women and all they know is how moms life was ruined by a man , her father.(what does a young woman expect from a man) all the women out there wanting so much of a man and offering what of themselves. men don't have alot of rights in alberta and i really think that most the judicial system is made to make money , not protect children.
if it was known what most women say to children about their fathers, the legal system would be bogged down.
i just wanted to voice my opinion as a concerned parent.
David | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 1/31/2009 6:43:10 PM |
I have to wonder why the courts don't request psychological assessments be made of the two parents and the children in situations like this - where the divorce was indeed high conflict.
I agree. When my ex and I split, she demanded I get one, but the last I ever heard of it was when I agreed and suggested she do the same. There were a lot of hoops she thought I had to jump through that she didn't, but her lawyer advised her otherwise.
There is a need to give children access to both parents because it is assumed that is the best for children. Clearly in situations where the children are being subjected to derogatory comments from either parent (or both) access is not in the best interests of the child until that can stop.
While I agree, it's hard to do simply because this kind of thing happens within families where the parents are married as well. This is a serious issue that we need to have a universal way of dealing with it, otherwise we leave behind the children who are trapped in families where the parents are still together. That's the biggest problem I find with our family justice system right now is the attempt to use custody as a means to punish parents for blameworthy conduct. This kind of behaviour, if it's heinous enough to be worthy of applying for a change in custody, should warrant criminal charges of abuse. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 1/31/2009 6:48:26 PM | I grew up in a home with fighting between my parents....my sis and I wished they would get a divorce. It is a universal problem and not one specifically and solely related to parents who do not stay together.
Education....that is the key. Maybe it is in teaching our children in the school systems about parenting.... | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/1/2009 5:18:38 AM | Wow this it touchy..
One of the reasons I divorced was because my ex would drink til he passed out. 3 DUI's and a felony drug possession.
He was out of our lives way before the divorce took place. Being he spent more time in and out of jail, then at home.
Judge gave me full custody. It was my choice if and when he could see our child.
I have no doubt he loves her very much. She him also.
BUT: he does not have a license so it is always up to me to drive to and fro. Also, he needs a 3rd person during the visit. Court ordered.
She is 6 now, and is hurt all the time, because he can't manage time with her. His new gal friend calls the shots. He promised he would be with his new friend at her house, and would not drink. ( one reason for the divorce ) he left child unattended at least once, and went out to buy liquor. He passes out in front of computer looking for dates and whatever. How can I possibly leave her with him? Even though it breaks both their hearts, I must do what is right. And it is not always easy.
He just recently called and left a very drunk VM for my child. I asked him not to call like that. Then he admits he has been intoxicated while in charge of her.
I had to stop it, dead..I did suggest his new girlfriend could pick her up, take her to lunch, etc. Then bring her home. He won't do this. So the child suffers. AS do I.
I listen to the crying and the heartbreak and I am the bad guy.
In a nutshell, this puts my social life on hold, as it should be. She comes first. He is having the time of his life, and leaves me holding the bag. He thinks that punishing me is not hurting her. All I asked of him was to not drink 2 times a month. Wow, now that's what I call sacrifice.
He loves to threaten me by saying once he gets his DL back he will sue me for custody. I live in this fear daily. But I am tougher than him, and will not give up. It's my job to make sure she is safe. Problem is....he has the money and the resources to fight me.
As far as the truth; I tell her Dad is sick, when he gets better, he can have her stay at his house. After she told me she sleeps with him at night, I just had to stop this.
Any thoughts from single dad's out there? | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/1/2009 8:32:22 AM | Wow true1958, I'm sorry to hear your story. Alcoholism is difficult to deal with and affects everyone around the person as well. I do hope that you are receiving counselling or going to ALANON to seek help. You should not fear his threats since it appears there is a court documented decision in place because of his drinking.
He has to sober up before he can be a good father plain and simple. My thoughts are that you are doing the right thing by protecting your daughter and you should not feel responsible for his choices. I grew up with a dad who was a drinker and it was no walk in the park. He still drinks but I still love him but as a child I didn't know how to deal with him and I was often confused, hurt and angry because of what he would say and do while under the influence.
I would urge you not to put your life on hold, do not concern yourself with him at all, break free from the unhealthy thinking you have because of your experiences. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/1/2009 10:43:29 AM | Thank you so much. It will help to make one more day easier to get through.
I just feel all alone. We lost everything in the divorce, one of the riches to rags sorta deal. My problem was, I trusted him.
Are we in a better place? After 4 moves in the last year, I would say so. I bought us a small place, where she can go to a good school. Still, she misses him, and I feel so bad for her. And what do you tell a 6 yr. old going on 29?
Again...thanks | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/1/2009 12:49:24 PM | True...would prefer to contact you but your mail settings won't let me...I live in Canada.
Since most of what I want to say to you is off topic....if you wish you can contact me via POF email so I can respond to you there. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/2/2009 3:14:47 PM | | True 1958, I am a single dad myself, I understand what you are saying and have something I want to run by you. I can't message you because of the age setting but if you don't mind, feel free to send me a message so I can reply. Thanks. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/9/2009 9:22:16 AM | Elizabeth...why not go to page 9 paragraph 40 where a Dr. Fidler concluded in 2000 that the children were at significant risk for becoming aligned with their mother and in turn alienated from their father.
This Dr. Fidler based HER findings on observations and experiences between to the parents.
No doubt you will deny this importance!
But why dont you read page 11 paragraph[49] where the father was accepting the mothers rule and was left shouting goodnight as he was unable to see his children.
But it seems you support this woman. that speaks volumes in respect to where you are I might suggest! ~Tealwood~
^^^Do you not see the irony in any part of your post above? Geeze....I guess you have already picked a side in this case eh?...could it be the side that supports your bitter outlook about women and childsupport in general?....just wondering...
As Teal has stated when is it enough. 5 court orders ignored over a 10 year period with what it seem to me complete disregard for the courts.
I have seen this personally with my best friend as he has been alienated from his son for the past 11 years. He has been to court now 3 times and each time the judge admonished his son's mother, told her to smarten up and then nothing because what recourses do the courts really have against those that will deny access. He almost went bankrupt trying to just get access. If I breach my court order for paying support, I will lose my credit rating, then my drivers license and possibly face jail time. But if my ex decided that I should not see my daughter then what is the recourse, go back to court multiple times. ~soccersweep ~
If I had a dollar for every time my ex disobeyed a court order to pay childsupport or stick to visitation schedulaes in the past I would be a rich woman!!...really guys..come off it already??? ...ohh and I also almost went broke during those times I had to go back to court every 6 months to enforce a child support order....
I don't think any of you realize how big of a precident this justice has set that will certainly be overturned on appeal....guraunteed...trust me...this woman has lawyers lining up to represent her for free now....nothing has been solved with this judgement.
Until the courts impose consequences for parents infantile behaviour and enforce them to behave like adults when dealing with custody and divorce...nothing has changed...it is only about to get worse...
I merely pointed out that this judge in this case went way over the line by severing any and all contact with the mother based on evidence from doctors that is 9 years old , and quite frankly I think she was annoyed that the respondent came to court over the last few months without representation.
I think that is the reason that there isn't even a reponse to the applicants last affidavit...she didn't have a lawyer....let me clarify...she was without the lawyer who is the one on record in this case...
In my experience, and I have had many in family courts, is the judge will rule a decision based only on the information and evidence that is available to them at the time. That basically means, if a respondent dosen't file a response to the affidavit made by an applicant then generally the judge will rule in favour of the applicant's motion and grant the requests that are made because they are seemingly uncontested.
So how FU is it that this justice actually granted the request of this father to severe all her parental rights?...Just because someone can say this woman is a horrible mother and she deliberately single handedly poisened these kids against their father....dosen't make it true...that is my only point to this thread....there is way more to this story here.
If my comments lead you teal and you soccer to believe that I am militant in supporting only women retain custody regardless of the most abusive situations...as you both imply you both would be wrong...
So, how much is enough liz. Is 10 years enough and if taking custody away is not the answer, what would be appropriate so that those that deny access know that there are consequences for their actions. ~soccersweep ~
^^^^well 10 years is not..and should not be considered to be an appropriate amount of time to make a decision about such an important issue. I think the better question is what is the appropriate time frame for punishing those who blantantly abuse and manipulate the system to their advantage?
Or why is it so easy for some to manipulate it in the first place?....
Anyone remember how much this Father paid in legal fees?....oops me bad....maybe that was uncalled for and the father is a innocent victim totally without fault...
OMG..if that were true....that would mean the scales of justice are totally uneven??!!
Say it isn't soo.... | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/9/2009 11:33:53 AM | "well 10 years is not..and should not be considered to be an appropriate amount of time to make a decision about such an important issue. I think the better question is what is the appropriate time frame for punishing those who blantantly abuse and manipulate the system to their advantage?"
So, since the mother in this case completely disregarded the court orders and denied access (which to me is a blatant abuse of the system) over a period 10 year period, what then would have been appropriate?
From what I reading above I think you are insuating that the father manipulated the court system and therefore should be held in some sort of comtempt. Surely this is not what you are saying, since the subject at hand is a mother who alienated the children from their father for a period of 10 years and ignored court order after court order.
So, in your opinion we should go after the father here because he had the means to manipulate the system, if so, I guess he should be locked up for it. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/9/2009 12:16:16 PM | I think that what Lizbeth is trying to say is that there should be some form of punishment doled out to anyone who play games (don't live up to the spirit of a court order with respect to children) period...female or male and I agree with her, however what would that punishment be?
Maybe...
When one parent is repeatedly not honouring the visitation schedule set forth in the agreement, not utilizing their access to their children or refusing access to the other parent, perhaps reduced/increased access should be the punishment. A lot of parents will manipulate the access schedules just to get at the ex....demonstrating that they are not capable of putting the child's interests at the forefront. Parenting should be treated more like a responsibility than a right.
If one parent is late or refusing to cooperate in the payment of child support or the other parent is not being reasonable given a change in the circumstances of the payor, the interest of child are not at the forefront....pissing off/getting even with the ex is. There are ways of getting the funds but if the recipient is being an a$$....reduced access/custody of children with the other parent getting more.
Bad mouthing the other parent where children are disclosing this information....mandatory therapy and automatic supervised access visits with the children until they can get over their issues with the ex and act with the child's best interests at the forefront. Children placed with the parent who is not doing this....
I could be wrong though in which case I'm sure Lizbeth will correct my interpretation of her words.
Of course the problem with the above punishments is that the children do is essence become pawns ... but aren't they already being treated as pawns in these situations? At least with an independent mediator (with the power to force changes) managing the shifting of the children....the best interests of the child could be seen to. Can't leave it up to the courts...too biased. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/9/2009 1:12:31 PM | sorry soccer...let me clarify....ten years is a ridiculous amount of time....and the courts allowed this to go on...for ten years!!!
I never said or even insinuated that the father should be held in contempt...read what I wrote for the luv of god!! This situation was prolonged and ignored by the court for way too long.
This case is maybe a bit on the extreme scale...perhaps a little exagerated with the media reporting on it...but it is really no different from a 1000 other stories and situations that keep the family courts clogged up.
Don't tell me what my opinion is...because clearly you haven't read anything I have written.
Whether you choose to believe it or not...I am on the same side as you.
I just can't get behind those people who are so shortsighted about what the bigger picture is in this specific case and what the ramifications are going to be for every couple who is going through a difficult break-up and custody battle in the family courts right now.
I bet if the gender roles were reversed...this thread wouldn't exist at all...and that my friend is a shame.
I just don't see how men can champion and cheer for this decision, when more often than not they complain about an identical judgement the courts have made in favour of the mother....see where I'm going here?
If you are part of the problem....your not part of the soloution...(don't mean you personally)
NEWSflash***....both parents are wrong by participating and perpetuating this kind of behaviour...and the courts are just as irresponsible for allowing custody issuesto be prolonged for years by lawyers and court orders which BTW... aren't worth the paper they are written on most times.
This isn't really complicated..at least it shouldn't be.... | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/9/2009 4:57:09 PM |
Until the courts impose consequences for parents infantile behaviour and enforce them to behave like adults when dealing with custody and divorce...nothing has changed...it is only about to get worse...
That's one of the very few things that you've ever posted that makes sense, liz.
I agree. The courts should have taken the kids away from the woman long ago..... 
 | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/9/2009 5:30:25 PM | Parental alienation doesn' exist.
It's an invention from the patriachal stablishment to undermine women's rights to full custody in order to protect the children from the molester and abuser fathers.
signed by NOW. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/9/2009 9:40:55 PM | OP,
there is nothing on God's green earth more difficult when the other parent is doing a campaign against you and your kids are unwilling but trusting listeners, to keep your mouth closed, be positive and turn the other cheek.
But there is nothing on God's green earth more important to do than just that.
Regardless of what is between you and your ex, your kids need you to be parents first, divorced exes second. And it is to the benefit of every child to have the love and support and relationship with both parents; because without it, there is loss, there is lack. When you do everything you can to consistently be a civil, respectful person, onlys aying good things; eventually the lack of the same will be noticed; and they will eventually start looking for themselves, and really listening to the words and comparing them to what they see.
Anything they ever eventually hear about your situation really shouldn't come from you or your ex; it doesn't help them, it confuses them and it conflicts them.
Get them in therapy; therapists are REALLY good at helping them understand words that are said by parents in rough situations like that (especially child advocate therapists who are trained to help kids navigate through those "poisonous ex" waters that are so unfortunately prevalent out there.)
It's difficult, frustrating, and unfair, but it is for the kids sake to keep our mouths shut and keep being positive about the other parent. Hopefully someday it will be repaid. But even if it's not; at least it's not escalating, and they can see how one healthy, positive atmosphere is; and can have something themselves to strive for.
VERY best of luck. Hopefully you can talk to someone too; abuse cuts deep. Hold your head up high and love the living daylights out of those kids :) | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/9/2009 10:26:59 PM | That's one of the very few things that you've ever posted that makes sense, liz.~capitano~
^^^^Glad you finally able to make sense out of something I have written cap....I'll try to dumb it down for you in the future so my posts won't be so hard for you too understand ....I'll even use the banana  guy after every sentence just in case you get bored! | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/10/2009 1:03:45 AM | | Wow, I read this article and froze. I really really hate my daughter's father, with everything in me. The way I've treated it thus far is to not discuss him AT ALL, to treat him as if he were in the grave. Since my daughter is only three, and since he has not been a part of her life, I have the power to do that-- to pretend he doesn't exist. I haven't bad mouthed him, I haven't good mouthed him. The topic of 'daddy' has yet to surface and I've been mentally working my way up as to what I'll say to her. I think, despite YOUR feeling for the guy, you have to think about your kids. Talk about the good things, the spark that brought them into the world. It doesn't matter what he says about you. Your kids will grow up with her their own insights, values and judgments. Try your best to externalize his relationship with them and concentrate on yours. My own mom and dad had a crappy relationship and one of the sweetest things she ever told me was "if I didn't marry your father I would never have had you." She died in 1982 and still I remember those words, spoken to me when I was about 6 years old. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/10/2009 8:40:19 AM | Thanks everyone for your replies - I was scared to come back to this thread for a bit, but things seem to be calming down again. (Yes, I know - if I can't take the heat, stay out of the forums. Pfft.)
Lately my eldest is really testing, trying to get me to say bad stuff about her dad. The little one is - happily - right out of it. The idea of a child counsellor sounds pretty good, though; then both kids can have the opportunity to talk about what they need to in a neutral setting. | |
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