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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/12/2009 11:28:13 AM | In my parenting plan, it specifically states that no parent shall make disparaging remarks about the other to the children. If you have that in yours, take him to court and keep taking him to court until he gets a clue.
And wait until your kids are older to tell them about his abusing you. But don't do it as a way to be vindictive. Only tell them if you think it's important for them to know. If you have girls, it's important they know imo.
Good luck | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/13/2009 12:31:51 AM | Lately my eldest is really testing, trying to get me to say bad stuff about her dad. The little one is - happily - right out of it. The idea of a child counsellor sounds pretty good, though; then both kids can have the opportunity to talk about what they need to in a neutral setting. ~faith,hope,love~
The best thing you could do for your kids is to seek a councellor that is impartial.
Your oldest is not testing you....your ex is...your child isn't provoking you to say bad things about her dad...her dad is provoking her to ask questions to get you to say bad things about him.
Once a third party is involved, most people tend to be on their best behaviour. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/13/2009 11:01:34 AM |
The best thing you could do for your kids is to seek a councellor that is impartial.
Your oldest is not testing you....your ex is...your child isn't provoking you to say bad things about her dad...her dad is provoking her to ask questions to get you to say bad things about him.
Lizzie...have you ever called to task another woman for her actions? I serious doubt it...as it seems apparent even if there is documented proof by professionals in respect to the mothers conduct..you are suggesting the father was also in the wrong for continuing the fight for so long....
And no doubt if he had walked away you would be saying he was a deadbeat.
I don't think any of you realize how big of a precident this justice has set that will certainly be overturned on appeal....guraunteed...trust me...this woman has lawyers lining up to represent her for free now....nothing has been solved with this judgement
[187] As a result of my analysis and findings, I make the following order:
1. Custody of the children, S.L.M., born […] 5, 1995, and E.A.M., born […] 22, 1999, shall be with the father, P.L.M..
2. There shall be no access to the mother, L.J..
In J.K.L. v N.C.S., 2008 30289 (ON S.C.), 30289, Turnbull J. granted custody of a 13 year old boy to his mother with no access to the father. In that case, Turnbull J. found that the child was the subject of severe parental alienation. The child, in that case, had been in the custody of his father. Turnbull J. found that the father conducted himself in a manner that severely alienated his child from his mother.
Some father lost custody for the same thing but unlike some I have problems suggesting someone losing custody should be supported or suggest he was victimized.
But I suggest Lizzie is always there to say it was still in part the fathers problem or fault!
So when Turnbull changed custody to the mother...are you going to suggest that the mother was also at fault Lizzie? Somehow I doubt you use the same yardstick for conduct when looking at men that you use when excusing woman. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/13/2009 12:56:09 PM | "Your oldest is not testing you....your ex is...your child isn't provoking you to say bad things about her dad...her dad is provoking her to ask questions to get you to say bad things about him."
Okay, so I have read what faith hope etc.. wrote several times and no where in what she said is there anything about the father provoking the child to ask questions.
So, what are you basing your assumption on? | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/14/2009 1:24:46 AM | The best thing you could do for your kids is to seek a councellor that is impartial.
Your oldest is not testing you....your ex is...your child isn't provoking you to say bad things about her dad...her dad is provoking her to ask questions to get you to say bad things about him. <<<<<
Lizzie...have you ever called to task another woman for her actions? I serious doubt it...as it seems apparent even if there is documented proof by professionals in respect to the mothers conduct..you are suggesting the father was also in the wrong for continuing the fight for so long.... ~Tealwood~
^my last post was a personal note to the OP based on my experiences going through a difficult divorce many years ago with my ex. BTW...looking back I will admitt that I played a big part in perpetuating and prolonging the agony my family suffered during that difficult time....and comprimise came in the form of a third impartial party for me and my ex.
Children don't automatically wake up one day and learn how to ask leading questions with the end goal of waanting one of their parents trash the other...that is something that is learned behaviour...wouldn't you agree? I am not assigning any specific gender blame...just responding to something the OP who happens to be female wrote...
But I suggest Lizzie is always there to say it was still in part the fathers problem or fault!
So when Turnbull changed custody to the mother...are you going to suggest that the mother was also at fault Lizzie? Somehow I doubt you use the same yardstick for conduct when looking at men that you use when excusing woman. ~Tealwood~
^^I find it quite telling that certain posters choose to try and continue a debate with me and ridicule my comments that were cherry picked to support their own opinions.
Ironic...I have used that word allot in responding to Tealwood and Soccersweep....perhaps hypocrite is a better word to use since even they cannot see the irony in the posts they are writing and the comments they are making.
If one or both parents feel there needs to be a clear winner and that blame must be assigned to the looser in a custody situation...then the priorities they have as a parent are out of whack big time....
The sooner that the courts or the guidelines are changed to make parents accountable for their actions by shining a spotlight on bad behaviour, the better it will be for all parties involved...including the parents.
If you have the attitude you have won...bad attitude...If you have the attitude you have lost...also bad..it does nothing to resolve the issue and divides the sexes and the support that all of us should be devoting towards stopping this crap from happening again in the future.
Keep pointing your fingers guys...bask in the victory of this ruling if it satisfies your appettite for what amounts to personal revenge and bitterness towards women and single mother's...karma is a ****...we get back what we give in life.
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/14/2009 6:38:40 AM | my last post was a personal note to the OP based on my experiences going through a difficult divorce many years ago with my ex
Well your personal experience isn't the OP's lizbeth. That doesn't make a lick of sense. All situations are different. The OP never once indicated that the man is causing the children to show curiosity.
Children don't automatically wake up one day and learn how to ask leading questions with the end goal of waanting one of their parents trash the other
Nor did the OP give any impression that the children want her to criticize the father. They are asking questions because they are curious (and ALL children are curious, to suggest otherwise is absurd) about their parents' relationship or lack thereof. I find absolutely NOTHING strange about that, in fact I've never met any parent whose children did not have concerns about their parents splitting up or not being together in the first place or even hoping that the parents relationship will resume.
The only problem with the questions they're asking is that the answer to them is derogatory to the other parent which the OP wants to avoid. The kids ask why aren't you with Daddy, the answer is he beat me up a lot. That's not knowledge I would want to burden my child with, either. My child used to ask about her father when she was small, do you think I should have told her that her Dad slept with other women, refused to acknowledge she exists and had a baby with someone else a couple months after she was born? There's no way in hell, I would have hurt my 4-8 year old with that kind of information. She's never met her father, so you certainly can't allege he encouraged her to ask questions that would cause me to be negative about him--she asked because she was a child curious about her parents and family. There was no deep, dark conspiracy any more than there is for the OP.
The problem with your posts is that you are often looking at a subject from the most narrow, negative point of view that you can find. And you often don't type in complete sentences or whole thoughts instead choosing disjointed fragments. And it doesn't seem to matter what the topic, you'll find some way to turn it into man vs woman and man being in the wrong.
Nutt | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/16/2009 8:09:52 PM | One of the best things our previous (Australian) Federal Goverment brought in was Family Relationship Centres for parents post-separation, where parents can sit down and mediate Parenting Plans for their children.
These can be quite flexible and don't have to be registered with the Family Court although you can choose to do so if you want to.
All parents are encouraged to go through this process post-separation, and the Family Court is only used as a last resort when parents cannot agree or the case is too complicated, as in allegations of abuse, etc.
This only applies to parents who separated post 2004 I think, so unfortunately for parents who have been brawling for years over Child Custody/Residency issues, the Court system and solicitors/lawyers will still be used for a few more years yet.
My ex and I separated in 2005. Our older children were 16 and over, so made their own decisions about what they wanted to do. We initially decided to share the care of our 8 year old son, which seemed to work okay until my ex got a girlfriend which he felt "serious" about.
Things hadn't been wonderful in our marriage and had certainly become worse when I had become very depressed in the last two years and had gone on anti-depressants for the first time in my life.
My ex had actually used this to undermine me to our children saying things such as "I can never please your mother", "your mother is probably going to end up in a mental institution" and to our teenage boys "I don't know why you even bother arguing with your mother, just do as I do, agree with her and then do what you like!" (Our 17 year old daughter told me this only after we had separated) I had felt quite devastated when our older boys began being rude and dismissive to me, at least I then understood why!
Our separation (I had moved out 6 weeks after telling him up-front that I was going to do so) had been pretty hard with my ex accusing me of stealing his money and property; our 8 year old asked me why I had "taken money out of Daddy's bank account?" (I hadn't, he just didn't realise our mortgage payments came out of our joint account fortnightly!).
I defended myself as much as I could without bad-mouthing him, as in mummy didn't take daddy's money the bank did, he just forgot about it.
It made the separation and adjustment for everyone just so much harder than it should have been!
Things settled down until a few months after our divorce, when he started dating a new lady. He had already got off to a bad start as far as I was concerned, when he went to see her on 'business' for an hour or two (on our son's night at his place) and did not get home until after 2AM. In the meantime my son had rung my house in tears because he'd woken up and didn't know where his dad was. My daughter picked my son up and I tried ringing my ex on his mobile up until after midnight! (Of course, I found out why my ex had left our son, a few days later)
He was telling our children that she would be their new stepmother, only 3-4 weeks after he started going out with her, insisting they all HAD to meet her whether they wanted to or not.
Our nearly 10 year old was told he had to like her and that she would be looking after him some nights, when his father was busy. When our son insisted he'd rather stay with my daughter and I, my ex told our son that his new g/f would be having words with him about that!
Initially our son had quite liked this lady, but when my ex started pushing her onto our son and insisting that she could discipline him if she needed to, our son changed markedly becoming very anxious, clingy and started crying and refusing to go around to his father's house altogether.
I honestly don't think it was my ex's new g/f's fault, in fact I am not sure she was really aware of what was even going on.
My ex insisted he had the "right" to have him when it was "his" night and it all went down-hill from there.
I knew he was desperately trying to prove to the g/f what an unreasonable 'psycho' woman I was, (our relationship breakdown was all my fault, in his opinion) when all I was trying to do was look after our son's emotional health.
I rang the Family Court hotline because I was scared I could get into trouble for not forcing my son to go to his father's, but they said because we didn't have a registered agreement that I could not be prosecuted.
They gave me the number of my nearest Family Relationship Centre and things improved a lot for all of us, once we started going there.
The FRC also did a Child Consultation with our son and pointed out to my ex how much damage he was doing to his relationship with his son.
We were sent on a weekend workshop called "Kids Are First" (separately, of course!) which even though I was the child of a very dysfunctional marriage involving alcoholism, violence and a mother who insisted we had to "hate" our father, reinforced my empathy with my son's painful situation and how not to make things even more difficult for him.
I met other parents in the Family Law system and it so opened my eyes to the absolute dreadful destruction of parents/children that can happen if parents refuse to compromise!
I'm actually not sure my ex actually did the workshop, but he certainly backed down and became so much more reasonable to deal with.
The upshot was that although our son still didn't want to go to his house as often, (he now only goes to his dad's 3 times a fortnight), but he is much happier and I think their relationship has improved (although he will still say occasionally "do I have to go?", but will eventually go with some encouragement)
We live in the same small town and my ex could certainly see our son more often than he does, take him out for a hit of cricket or to kick the footy around, but he rarely bothers.
The g/f was gone 4 months after he started his relationship with her. I heard things ended badly from our children (my son told me my ex wasn't even allowed to walk down her street!) I thought he must have been exaggerating until a mutual acquaintance said to me recently "You know when S took out that AVO (Apprehended Violence Order) against M?"
My mouth just opened, I had no idea! I was absolutely gob-smacked!
I know my ex had frequently been quite cruel to me verbally and emotionally over the years, the " depression = mentally unstable" thing was just one of many things that he considered was wrong with me!
But an AVO?
I still can't imagine it, but do we ever know anyone? I once would have insisted it wasn't possible, but in the time immediately before and long after our separation, he was often not a person I even recognised!
Anyway, for us the Family Relationship Centre worked well. Our child is much happier, it certainly took the pressure off me being written off by him as the "psycho b*tch" intent on destroying his relationship with his son (the child psychologist pulled no punches with my ex!) and we saved thousands of $ on Solicitors/Lawyers fees and a rigid Family Court order that has to be adhered to, come what may.
Over 2 years later, my ex and I seem able to discuss things about our son so much better
than before, although I still find I don't feel I can "trust" him completely!
The only downside is I am not guaranteed that my ex WILL have my son when he's supposed to, (he's a bit casual, a "better offer" might come up!) so I can't make definite plans (just as well I haven't met anyone yet I'd like to date!)
But I love our boy and in a few very short years he'll have his own social life and won't want his mum around!
I am just so glad we could avoid the Family Court! It sounds horrible! | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/16/2009 11:50:25 PM | Lately my eldest is really testing, trying to get me to say bad stuff about her dad. The little one is - happily - right out of it. The idea of a child counsellor sounds pretty good, though; then both kids can have the opportunity to talk about what they need to in a neutral setting.
msg #100 posted by the OP
The best thing you could do for your kids is to seek a councellor that is impartial.
Your oldest is not testing you....your ex is...your child isn't provoking you to say bad things about her dad...her dad is provoking her to ask questions to get you to say bad things about him.
Once a third party is involved, most people tend to be on their best behaviour.~lizbeth~
msg #102 posted by ME!!
Well your personal experience isn't the OP's lizbeth. That doesn't make a lick of sense. All situations are different. The OP never once indicated that the man is causing the children to show curiosity. Nor did the OP give any impression that the children want her to criticize the father.~chocolatenutt~
^^^I think you need to read message #100 nutt. I do agree with you though, all situations are different. I am sorry,but I don't think it takes a genius to figure out where a child has learned how to ask questions that can only have a derogatory response. It seems obvious to me where it would come from..perhaps an adult that is still a little bitter and angry?
They are asking questions because they are curious (and ALL children are curious, to suggest otherwise is absurd) about their parents' relationship or lack thereof. I find absolutely NOTHING strange about that, in fact I've never met any parent whose children did not have concerns about their parents splitting up or not being together in the first place or even hoping that the parents relationship will resume. The only problem with the questions they're asking is that the answer to them is derogatory to the other parent which the OP wants to avoid.
The kids ask why aren't you with Daddy, the answer is he beat me up a lot. That's not knowledge I would want to burden my child with, either.
~chocolatenutt~
^^^back off nutt....exactly what have I said in any of my posts that has offended you so much? I merely encouraged her to get help from a councellor who could act as an impartial third party. I guess it was my perception of the OP's post and my opinions about her circumstances... or maybe it is all of my perceptions of the threads on these forums and my opinions that seem to tick you off?
My child used to ask about her father when she was small, do you think I should have told her that her Dad slept with other women, refused to acknowledge she exists and had a baby with someone else a couple months after she was born? There's no way in hell, I would have hurt my 4-8 year old with that kind of information. She's never met her father, so you certainly can't allege he encouraged her to ask questions that would cause me to be negative about him--she asked because she was a child curious about her parents and family. There was no deep, dark conspiracy any more than there is for the OP. ~chocolatenutt~
^^^^Wait a sec...weren't you the one that said MY personal experience wasn't the same as the OP's...and that my post didn't make a "lick of sense".....yah okay...but your personal experiences are realevent to this thread?
The problem with your posts is that you are often looking at a subject from the most narrow, negative point of view that you can find. And you often don't type in complete sentences or whole thoughts instead choosing disjointed fragments. And it doesn't seem to matter what the topic, you'll find some way to turn it into man vs woman and man being in the wrong.~chocolatenutt~
^^^Wrong. The problem that most people have with my posts (mainly men) is that I don't support the popular opinion on most thread topics. I read all the threads I respond to with some objectivitey which is more than I can say for allot of the people who post and jump on the bandwagon of popular opinion.
BTW..It is never my intention to turn any topic into a man vs women arguement, I don't usually ever specify gender unless it relates to a specific case.
My intention is to provoke everybody into looking at the various custody battles and complicated circumstances from more than just one angle.
I am sorry that you have so many problems reading my posts. I will admitt..that my grammar and sentence structure sucks...however it would seem you had no difficulty in reading my last few posts since you were able to whip up such a personally biting response to my posts, none of which BTW were directed too you.
Personally, I have enjoyed reading most of your posts and opinions on these threads in the past....until today that is... | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/17/2009 6:10:50 AM |
It is never my intention to turn any topic into a man vs women arguement
Dale Jr. said it wasn't his intention to spin Brian Vickers on Sunday neither. But guess what? That's what he did.
The problem that most people have with my posts (mainly men) is that I don't support the popular opinion on most thread topics.
What's the popular opinion? That sometimes men aren't scum? The only opinion you come across as supporting is that men deserve absolutely no credit... ever! You may believe in your own mind that you are being objective, but trust me, that's not what your words tell us. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/17/2009 8:14:45 AM | Well.. ok here's my opinion. Yes the judge ruled that the children be givin to there father for the mother supposidly alienating the children from there father.. But.. I can't beleive how some of the comments i read totaly agreed with the judge for doing so.. saying that it was emotional abuse. Who in this site knows the families story? how can you agree with something you have no clue about the facts?
You know.. in some cases i have heard that the child was alienated by the father, had no contact for many years and then boom.. to piss the mother off he takes them to court saying she alienated the child from him.. Who's to say that didn't happen and now the child is stuck with an abusive father ? Just my opinion.. but yeah, me personally i don't have an opinion on who's right or who's wrong in this case. However i will add that in some cases it is not "emotional abuse" to tell your child the truth when he/she is ready. Now i am not saying to bash the other parent.. thats just petty and childish. But as my mother tells me "the truth will set you free" cheesy i know.. but true. If you don't believe me.. read on.
My 5 year old son i have had to raise myself since he was 14 months old. His father abandoned us because he wasn't ready for children (come to find out he had another child he abandoned at the same age who is now 10 years old,neither of which he is in contact with. ironic isn't it) Now every case is different, but in my case i never said anything negitive about my sons father. When my son would ask "where's my daddy? why doesn't he come see me? why doesn't he call? Does he love me?" I would just respond, "baby daddy loves you but he is in the army and stationed in hawaii, he is working.. thats why he can't come see you." Knowing thats a bold faced lie.
Well.. just reciently my son got mad and irate with me asking the same questions.. "mommy tell me the truth!! where's my daddy! why doesn't he come see me!" and so far and so on..
Now.. even though my son is 5.. he is very advanced for his age.. (and i mean that seriously.. not just the mommy part speaking lol) He has more common sence then some adults that i know just to set the scene for you.. So when my son askes me this and tells me that i am being a lier, why don't i tell him the truth.. I simply gave him a choice. "baby..Mommy will answer that question if you are truely ready to know. Its something that will probably make you cry.. so don't ask unless you really want to know the truth."
My son said ok..
About 4 days later he comes to me and says "Mommy... daddys never going to come see me is he." I simply replyed your right. He asked more about the situation and honestly i was suprized about how calm he was and how detailed he was with his questions. But i felt my son was ready to know.. So i told him the facts.. without the use of bashing. So.. to the question at hand about wether or not this is emotional abuse to tell the child about the parents situation.. I disagree intirely.
As long as you feel the child is ready to know and he shows that much interest in knowing the truth, by all means tell him gently. Maybe not "all" the details of why were not to gether or why he doesn't come see him... But a round about sort of way to where its close enough to the truth as he needs to know.
Since then, my son and i have been closer than ever.. and he has actually helped me more with things he wouldn't have before cause he was acting out. Its like now he knows and his heart can settle and realize that yes.. this is his life and there is no need to hurt himself any longer waiting on his father to come give him a big hug. Instead, he hugs me and tells me he loves me and we moved on from the past. No emotional damage was done. I actually think it helped him out both emotionaly and mentaly to know the truth. so yeah.. thats my opionion about that situation.
Do i care of the fact that some of you will disagree with me... not really.
All i know is that my son is happier that i told him the truth.. and thats all that matters.
Much love to single parents, your doing a great job incase no one has told you lately :D
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/18/2009 11:19:20 AM | I am amazed by all of this.
When you get divorced, and unless the other parent is a complete disaster, then the question has to be asked.
Who is getting the divorce? Why is it that every one, on both sides, use the kids as pawns?
The impact on the childs life, should be affected as little as possible. It is the parents who are having the problem, so let the children live there life as they have it.
It is hard enough being a single parent, without the constant barrage of threats, counter threats and such from the other parent. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/18/2009 11:46:46 AM | What's the popular opinion? That sometimes men aren't scum? The only opinion you come across as supporting is that men deserve absolutely no credit... ever! You may believe in your own mind that you are being objective, but trust me, that's not what your words tell us.~Mr. Blblblbl ~
^^^Well Mr. B..I would suggest to you that if I were a man who posted the exact same responses that I have, this debate would be going in a totally different direction.
If you actually read what I wrote you would see that it is not my comments that turned part of this thread into a man vs woman debate..it is those who refuse to look at more than one side of this case in particular where a mother not only lost custody but her parental rights entirely. That is a very disturbing consequence that those kids have to deal with...Two wrongs do not make a right.
I think if you knew my personal circumstances and experiences with several different scenerio's discussed here and on the single parent forums, you would better understand that I am certainly no "man hater" as it would seem is the popular opinion on this thread!
In a nutshell, I have 2 boys from my previous marriage and get a small amount of child support from my ex that we agreed upon. Incidentally, he pays twice the amount of child support to his ex girlfriend for kids who are not even his biologically. It took some time for me to realize it wasn't in the best interest for my boys to destitute their father finacially and it wasn't in my best interest emotionally either, to be consumed by whatever anger I had about it. I also have a toddler who I am solely responsible for raising emotionally and finacially as her father has "opted" not to participate after we spilt early in my pregnancy.
So I think that one can hardly construe my opinions to be those of a man-hater. If that were the case I would have quit my jobs and hired a lawyer to get the max amount of child-support from both my kid's father's. Trust me I would never have to work again if that were the case . That hate and those types of lessons is not something I wish to pass on to my children.
BTW, just an FYI..not all women are manipulating and evil scum either, and trust me, that is exactly what my perception has been from what some have written here regarding this case. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/18/2009 2:59:59 PM | hi darlin...wow...
i think re the woman loosing custody in the states...we have very little info, thus its difficult to have an opinion,
.... if the dad was really a bad person, why did she decicde to have child with him in the first place.......we all make mistakes.....
we r often so glad to be pregnant that we dont think of the repercussions...having a child to a bad person we r setting ur kids up for a rotten time...
if anyone reads this that is young and not yet a mum or dad.....CHOOSE YR CHILDRENS PARTNER AS THO IT WERE THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION YOULL EVER MAKE........CAUSE IT IS...we can escape our partners...but kids can amost never escape their parents......
.re telling yr kids that u were abused as was one of yr kids..
DONT LISTEN TO FRIENDS...U NEED PROFFESSIONAL HELP......and if possible stay calm and grounded...go do some yoga...u need to be emotioanally well....if one of yr kids was abused....they might get really messed up..whether u tell them or not...if someone is violated their subconscious will know it.....it could really mess a person up if they dont know what has happened to them....i think a child need s to know.....no matter how horrid..........u need to be really well to deal with ithis...blaming him wont help....U CHOSE HIM....ITS YR S TO DEAL WITH...sadly...our choices can ruin our lives.....and our childrens......so stay strong...get help...get holistic...get spiritual cause you need to learn to forgive so u can teach yr kids how to forgive.....forgiveness will eliminate the trauma eventually....otherwise dis-ease will occur....be well....libby | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/18/2009 3:14:03 PM | kids are a gift.......yet we pop them out as tho they were a new dress.....its disgusting...the amount of thought that goes into choosing a parent should be enourmous...clearly these girls were thinking bout something else that day........we need a license to drive......to have a pet....to pull out a tree...but NOT TO HAVE A CHILD...none of the people we r talking about are worthy parents.....
we must take responsibility for choosing our kids parent....for gods sake...this is all nuts........WHY ARE THESE IDIOTS ALLOWED TO PROCREATE.... ........our children are innocent...we screw up their lives by being total****eads....then when the shit hits the fan we BLAME OTHERS FOR OUR CRAPPY LIFE....POINTING THE FINGER WHEN REALLY ITS OUR FAULT.......blame is pointless..........the poor kids just want one thing...to be loved and safe.....
arguing parents causes great harm........i cant beleive the nonsence i m reading...if u chose an ***hole to be the kids dad....ITS YR PROBLEM ...dont blame him...hes was ***hole when u met.....u chose...DEAL ...learn to teach the kids love..forgiveness....cause thats all they can do with a rotten situation...........consistant arguing...going to court are all rediculous...the kids suffer un believabley when we go to court.....if he is an ***hole ....maybe hes depressed...rather than hate...try helping......rather than going into battle ....try loving............DO YOGA......GET GROUNDED...LEARN TO LOVE UNCONDITIONALLY..LEARN TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.......learn to forgive......and pray for those poor innocent kids....cause they manifested stupid parents......good luck......libby | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/18/2009 3:20:58 PM | yes...children are innnocent...they dont know how to manipulate...other than what they have learned from us......!...
re nasty exs....we must learn to forgive..to love...to try to understand...human emotion is a puzzle...often we r misunderstood...be open...be honest..and if need be get a good therapist....someone u trust...someone that can help u look at yr actions...we r all to quick to blame the men...they r unable to emote as woman do...they r ofen emotionally abused by women...with out even knwing it....take responsibility....if something bad is happening in yr univeres...u r responsible....blame is weak..blame is cancerous....
Learn to be discerning.....learn that yr world is yr creation....learn to meditate ...learn to love...and forgive..these r the greatest skills we can teach our kids...
kids a devine gifts....teach them wisely...... | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/18/2009 3:28:34 PM | | more bickering...we teach by our actions..our kids need to learn from us....i dont believe what im reading....u r all very bored or just plain stupid...get a grip...BLAME IS CANCEROUS....learn to forgive....learn to understand why a person is the way they are...most men are unable to articulate their emotions...men arent born bad....they r often taught froa young age that they r hopelss...eg...if one of these losser dads has a son...and the son has to listen to mum bagging him for yrears..then the son will be bad...he will beleive subconsciously that that is what he is,...cause his dad is..and all boys identify with their fathers...........most of the people on this sight are good people ......but they are not grounded...do yoga...do meditation....take responsibility..learn to love....learn to embrace ife....rather than destroy is with bikkering..... | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/18/2009 3:37:59 PM | do u have any idea how damaging court is to kids....if aggreements are broken....get grounded...get honest...and deal with it like human beings not animals......court ruins peoples lives.....justice does not allways prevail.....understanding ...loving forgiving.....learn to do yoga...learn to forgive...learn that blame is a pointless......if we all stopped and took responsibility for all of our actions these problems would not occur.............
our kids are devine gifts...we only get to have then round for 20 years...or less....yet we **** it up too often...parenting is a gift....why do u all think its about u...when the kids are standing round wide eyed just wishing mum n dad could be friends...why not meet their need instead of our needs......
if u r all so challeneged by yr exs...get help.....the kids need u to stop arguing..and be friends....its their lives u r messing with....
....i pray for ur kids as u r teaching them to fight......what a foolish thing to teach...teach unconditonal love instead...........good luck libby | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/18/2009 3:44:59 PM | this is ludicrous...the common theme here is BLAME......no one is taking responsibility.....im fascinated by the level of selfishness......kids need us to be loving and understanding..they want one thing....for us to be friends.......why r u teaching that blame is ok........being a parent is a devine gift,...does anyone take that into consideration when choosing a partner.,......the most important decision of our lives.....is choosing our kids dad/mum...
take responsibility for the kids sake...get help..learn to understand why the other parent is doing whatever...learn to forgive...not fight...
what ever u do..know that ur are teachig yr children to do it.....thus are perpetuating a life of bad choices and blame..... | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/18/2009 3:49:48 PM | at last some intelligence...good on u darlin.....
ur child is energetticallty safe...love and understading prevail in yr world.....teach others by example...stay soft and open as love is all there is......
re the court case...isnt it funny ..we all have a strong opinions...we r all ready to go into battle for what ever team we r on....which is so transparent...those of u with strong opinions....u know so little...why judge.....
pray for the kids..as those parents have made a disater of the kids lives..... | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/18/2009 6:02:39 PM | it is those who refuse to look at more than one side of this case in particular where a mother not only lost custody but her parental rights entirely.
Fact is that it's not the mother's rights, nor the father's rights that are in question. The mother was preventing the children from seeing their father which was a violation of the children's rights. She was accused of violating 5 court orders. The evidence obviously satisfied the burden of proof that the accusations were true otherwise the judge would not have ruled the way she did.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
What is the "second" wrong you are talking about? That the children were removed from a poisonous environment? There is no second wrong. The "rights" of the mother don't matter. The only thing that should matter is doing what's right for the children. They will not be kept from their mother forever, she has simply lost the right to make decisions on their behalf. To go back a little farther:
I am also not sold on the Dad playing the part of the innocent victim in this situation either.
None of us are. We're sold on the fact that the children are the innocent victims. In a case where a parent is abusing their children, of course we are going to "celebrate" children being removed from that environment. Whether it's physical, mental, or emotional abuse, the last thing I'm going to cry over is a mother or father losing their "parental" rights when they've abused their children. Why do you believe the rights of the mother in this instance trump the rights of her children?
And to be fair, here's your disclaimer after that comment:
Before you jump all over me with your man hating theories...try and read what I posted...The only ones who are suffering right now are those three kids caught in the middle of this huge drama. How is that "fair" or what "justice" does that serve?
A dramafest that might not exist if the mother was not causing it. That's why you come across as man-hating. Without the mother's actions, you make it sound like the father would still be causing hell in the lives of his children just for shits and giggles. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/18/2009 8:21:29 PM | Fact is that it's not the mother's rights, nor the father's rights that are in question. The mother was preventing the children from seeing their father which was a violation of the children's rights. She was accused of violating 5 court orders. The evidence obviously satisfied the burden of proof that the accusations were true otherwise the judge would not have ruled the way she did. ~Mr. Blblblbl ~
^^^I suppose if you were taught to believe everything you read to be gospel truth without asking any questions, I can see how you would think it is okay for a judge to terminate a parents rights in this case.
What is the "second" wrong you are talking about? That the children were removed from a poisonous environment? There is no second wrong. The "rights" of the mother don't matter. The only thing that should matter is doing what's right for the children. They will not be kept from their mother forever, she has simply lost the right to make decisions on their behalf.
Whether it's physical, mental, or emotional abuse, the last thing I'm going to cry over is a mother or father losing their "parental" rights when they've abused their children. Why do you believe the rights of the mother in this instance trump the rights of her children?~Mr. Blblblbl ~
^^^ It is wrong and very dangerous for a judge to make this kind of ruling based on information that is 10 years old and on the affidavit from only one side.
Time will tell if the father has the kids best intentions at heart and I hope you are right.
A dramafest that might not exist if the mother was not causing it. That's why you come across as man-hating. Without the mother's actions, you make it sound like the father would still be causing hell in the lives of his children just for shits and giggles...
~Mr. Blblblbl ~
^^^I'll approach this from a different angle. I have one question for you.
Do you think it is okay for our family court judges to be aloud to sevre parental rights given they only have the applicant's affidavit and assessments from doctors that are almost a decade old?
I am not going to debate the change of custody issue...change of custody in cases like this the children could adapt too..I'm strictly referring to the parental rights regarding consent, access and visitation...that is what I meant by two wrongs not making a right.
You make it sound as if it is a fact the mother was causing hell just for shits and giggles...and that you could not possibly know based on the available information. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/18/2009 11:21:59 PM |
I suppose if you were taught to believe everything you read to be gospel truth without asking any questions, I can see how you would think it is okay for a judge to terminate a parents rights in this case.
Ask what questions? Like if her allegations of sexual assault against the father were true, why didn't she have him charged? Why did she continue to request police presence at certain pick-ups and drop-offs even after her children said they didn't want it and police confirmed there was never any danger? Why is it she can remember all the things she wants to embarrass him about from 15 years ago, but under cross-examination her memory is fuzzy from the same time period? Are those the questions I should be asking?
It is wrong and very dangerous for a judge to make this kind of ruling based on information that is 10 years old and on the affidavit from only one side.
Paragraph 89:
What gives this eight year old report such weight in this trial is the fact that, on the evidence before me, not much has changed in K. D’s behaviour since she was observed by Dr. Fidler. The children have aged and Dr. Fidler’s predictions and fears have, in fact been realized. I would go so far as to say that, but for Dr. Fidler’s refusal to recommend any form of sole custody of the children to the Respondent, the situation now before me might have been much worse. K. D. would, no doubt, have used the “authority that accompanies sole custody” to shut the Applicant out of his children’s lives with greater dispatch.
The judge made the decision based on the evidence in 2008 that the mother's behaviour has not changed and that the doctor's "predictions and fears" from 2000 were realized.
Do you think it is okay for our family court judges to be aloud to sevre parental rights given they only have the applicant's affidavit and assessments from doctors that are almost a decade old?
Well, perhaps you would like to re-read the entire decision and pay attention to the whole thing, not just the few words you want to think are important. After that, maybe you'll have a different question to ask... like one that's actually valid and pertains to the case.
You make it sound as if it is a fact the mother was causing hell just for shits and giggles...and that you could not possibly know based on the available information.
I could possibly know it because there's plenty enough information available to understand what she was doing. No, it wasn't for shits and giggles. It was because she's someone who believes she owns her children and is completely oblivious to the harm her actions cause. Typical sociopathic behaviour. Send her for a psychiatric evaluation... I bet that's what they come back with. Though after losing her children, I wouldn't be surprised to find out she's upgraded to psychotic now. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/19/2009 12:09:31 PM | | I'm dealin with this on both sides right now.My mother did this to my father,and my ex-wife has been doing this to me & our 2 sons 5&7.I'm heartboroken over the abuse my sons live through everyday.I'm 30 & still despise my mother for what she did.My siblings think my father is the lunatic.When reality shows our mother to be the abuser.I just hope my sons see through the lies.It took me years to see the truth.Karma's a ****. | |
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