slr245
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Joined: 2/15/2009
Msg: 126 | |
| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/19/2009 1:44:46 PM | I am a Dad that has custody after the ex badmouthed me way to much to our children. In Texas that is called parental alienation. I don't think that there is any divorce that does not get messy no matter how much the ex couple tries. My custody was the choice of my children, not court ordered. To make it short, I had to threaten her with the CPS due to unsafe and unhealthy living conditions and my 10 yr old son abandoned for the weekends I did not have him. She went on a rampage about what a rotten s o b I was. Consequently my then 15 yr old daughter cut me out of her life. I did not see her for several years. Two years ago my son came to live with me , I gave my daughter permission to live with relatives in our home town, the ex found some guy in the army with five kids and moved across the country. I said all that to say this.
It doesn't always turn out bad. Be patient kids are smart, they will figure it out. If one does have to force the issue, for fathers here in Texas there is the Texas Fathers for equal rights. Easy to find on the web with a wealth of information and legal tactics. They also have meetings with attorneys present that offer free legal advice. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/19/2009 2:32:36 PM | Hello greenpants,
I have to say I really feel for what you are going through.
I know exactly what you mean about your own mother, my parents didn't separate until I was nearly 20, but our whole lives were about "sides". My father was an alcoholic, which meant he took little responsibility for anything and he was at times violent towards our mother (as I grew older and being the eldest child, I by default became the family "mediator, I learned a lot about family violence being so much more complicated than what it seems; another thread entirely I think!)
We grew up knowing you could only be on one "side", my mother's, if you wanted to survive physically and mentally that was!
My sister and I maintained a relationship with our father all our lives (he died 9 years ago), but from the time my younger brother was born, my mother virtually "froze" my father out of his life!
I can remember as a very young child of 5, being left alone with my younger brother and sister while my mother worked at night, being instructed by my mother, not to let my drunk father go near my brother once he got home!
My brother was a"sensitive" child (being born into such a toxic environment it was not surprising!) and my mother absolutely smothered him. Any problem my brother had from asthma to a speech impediment was my father's fault!
My brother sadly has not benefited from being my mother's favourite, having problems with alcohol himself which contributed to the breakdown of his own short-lived marriage, and then "running home to mum" nearly 20 years ago and never leaving!
So I agree with you, my own experience growing up has taught me what a powerful role a mother has and how much influence a mother has on her children's lives!
This can be wonderful, but if a woman feels at all vengeful, it can be the most toxic of all relationships!
And I have to agree with the men here, if a woman is intent on using the children to "get back" at her ex, the man is pretty powerless!
(And I am not taking anything away from those women who have to raise the children alone because the children's father is simply not interested; there are plenty of men out there who only realise their stupidity when they are old and alone in later life!)
The only thing I can suggest here greenpants, is for you to get some counselling. Not because I think you have anything wrong with you at all (except a very heightened awareness of your ex's 'game' plan!) but because of that heightened sensitivity you may appear to others (such as judges, psychologists) to be very "angry" and defensive towards your ex, not a good 'image' when you get into the Family Law system.
Counselling may help you deal with that anger (and a very real fear, due to experiencing your own father's alienation from his family) so that you can remain calm at any mediation or hearings you may have.
Attend as many parenting classes/programs as you can, so that you can 'prove' you just want to be a great dad and that your children's interests come first.
Use the word "our" children and not "my" children in any discussion about them. They are just that! They don't 'belong' to either one of you!
I do think that men are at an extreme disadvantage in these kinds of situations, if the woman doesn't want to be fair and reasonable.
Needing to try to push you out of your boys' lives is a sign of your ex's anger and insecurity, don't buy into her game.
But I do think that if you have been a great dad to your boys (you said 5 &7?) that they will remember this and your ex, if she keeps playing this game may appear to 'win' initially, but you will in the end, if you stay positive and focused on your goal of being the best dad your boys can have!
Good luck!
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/19/2009 3:20:17 PM | Hello,
just getting divorced 2/5/09 with three kids that have chose to live with me, i never bad mouthed her in front of the kids and never will, even when her and her lawyer pulled them into court to tell the judge where they were living, she broke there hearts and i never had to say anything, kids are very smart and they see what we dont say!!
shame on anybody who would use there own kids to do that...i do feel after what my kids and i had went through, just because her and her lawyer was wanting more money, there should be a point where the judges say NO MORE.. my kids were drug into somethings they never should have seen...let the kids know there parent and let them make up there own minds, if there is danger there instruct the courts....Jeff | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/20/2009 3:00:25 PM | | Well i'm a single dad raising two of my three kids, my oldest two sons mom passed away over 5 years ago, when my sons at the time was 1, and the other 2 months. since she passed I had another child who is 18 months, when he was 8 months old the mom and I had a bitter break up, and since then she has made it extremely hard for me to see my son, I dont do drugs, NEVER been to jail, or any trouble with the law, i'm very much involved in my kids life, and it hurts that I cant do the some for my youngest, some people have the ability to compensate the love of their missing child, for the one's they have, but I cant do that, I cant love them any more than I love him, no matter how much I do or dont get to see him. I love him just as much, and I try no to let her interfer with me seeing my son, but she make it so hard, and uncomfortable, and unconvient for me to see him, I understand that he's young and dont fully understand whats going on, or if she did say something bad about me to him, he wont know whats she's saying, but when a person allienate a child from one parent they're indirectly feeding bad thoughts in the childs head. childrens love, emotion,respect, and trust comes from the parent their around most and the parent who does most of the nuturing, and since I havent been able to be there fo him, the things he should feel for me isnt there, Its sad I have to fight so hard to get what should come natural to me, but i'm not giving up on my son, never have, never will, and soon I will get my day in court and I will let you all know how it goes, and when my son gets older and ask me wy things are the way they are, the best thing for me to tell him, is that thinngs happend, that shouldn't have, and it all over now. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/20/2009 3:45:55 PM | I'm really sorry about the loss of your oldest sons' mom, and sorrier about your losing your youngest through someone else's poisoning. That's not right, fair, or loving of her to do that.
I'm really really sorry this is happening to you; keep being there and being positive when you do see him; eventually he will see the truth, as the poster above you said.
Truth always outs eventually, and one parent at least doing right, whichever gender, is still going to hugely benefit the kids; and maybe the other will finally understand how much damage that poison, vitriol and trashtalking does to hurt the kids themselves; not the ex. They are the ones who pay the price.
Very very best of luck. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/22/2009 2:51:40 AM | I could possibly know it because there's plenty enough information available to understand what she was doing. No, it wasn't for shits and giggles. It was because she's someone who believes she owns her children and is completely oblivious to the harm her actions cause. Typical sociopathic behaviour. Send her for a psychiatric evaluation... I bet that's what they come back with. Though after losing her children, I wouldn't be surprised to find out she's upgraded to psychotic now.~Mr. Blblblbl~
^^Your personal feelings have clouded your ability to be objective about this. I am not arguing or debating the obvious abuse these children have been through. I do not have the opinion that the mother was right or justified...but I do not share your opinion that the father is the picture of innocence either!!!
The questions that need to be asked are not ones that are one-sided and point blame...that is totally pointless. The questions that all of us single parents need to ask is ...
WHY did it take so long for the courts to make a ruling in this case....
WHY was this alleged abuse of the mother allowed to continue for so long..especially since the police were involved in the last year...
WHY did it take the father so long to decide to fight for sole custody
WHY wasn't the CAS involved in this case if there was such obvious abuse?
WHY didn't the mother file a response to her husbands affidavit?
If you can't answer all of those "WHY" questions MrB, you shouldn't be making the nasty judgemental comments that you have been.
I can see you only want to look at this from one side. You don't care WHY this case escalated over almost a decade or HOW it was able to go on for so long...
I am done debating a brickwall....so cherry pick any comments you like from this post so you can further boost your personal opinion... | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 2/22/2009 8:01:43 AM |
WHY did it take so long for the courts to make a ruling in this case....
They didn't. They made 5 rulings. The mother violated them, which was a contributing factor in why she lost custody in the 6th go-round.
WHY was this alleged abuse of the mother allowed to continue for so long..especially since the police were involved in the last year...
That's Canadian Family Law. Most men can have their children taken away from them for the mere mention of the word abuse. Women get a 10 year trial period. How is that the fault of the father?
WHY did it take the father so long to decide to fight for sole custody
Because he didn't really want sole custody. He wanted to foster an environment where the children had a relationship with their mother (see the last sentence of Paragraph 40 of the decision, and feel free to read the entire thing if you like). The sole custody application obviously only came about because the mother abused her authority and he finally recognized he had no other choice if he was to save his children. Much like how I wouldn't just up and kick a dog simply because he's growling at my daughter. But if he decides to attack her, you're damn right I'm going to kick him... as hard as I f*cking can!
WHY wasn't the CAS involved in this case if there was such obvious abuse?
The OCL was involved, which respresented the children and neither parent. They recognized the abuse. See paragraphs 78 - 80 of the decision.
WHY didn't the mother file a response to her husbands affidavit?
Because she's a sociopath. She thinks she's right. She doesn't think she has to prove anything. Simply being alive and being the mother of the children is the only criteria she believes she needs to satisfy in order to retain custody of her children (again, see paragraph 40 where Dr. Fidler speaks of her "notable disregard for authority and remain(ing) closed to reason and to opinions that differ from hers").
If you can't answer all of those "WHY" questions MrB, you shouldn't be making the nasty judgemental comments that you have been.
Yeah me! I get to keep going!
I am not arguing or debating the obvious abuse these children have been through. I do not have the opinion that the mother was right or justified...but I do not share your opinion that the father is the picture of innocence either!!!
Well that makes 2 of us, because that's not my opinion. It never has been. My opinion is that the children were removed from a poisonous environment. You're the only one making this about the mother and the father. If you recognize the children were abused, what's your solution? Stick them in foster care just because you don't like their dad? | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 7/12/2009 6:57:48 AM | emotional abuse caused my oldest son to attempt suicide after x had used the same aliention on his wife. by maniulating the wife she was able to convincee the wife to take over finances. when this happened and mom started getting money out of sons bavk account and he was broke he divorced the wife.
the purpose of this was to worm her way into his home. he suffers from glacouma and is going blind.
she has never in her life done a dish, washed clothes cleaned a house or worked. as a woman who plays the part of the boy who cried wolf, anytime work is mentioned , her hip hurts. works good for sympathy. this is one reason that courts need to drop charges so those of us who can not afford lawerys or going tto court allows the alienation to continue until kids do end up succeding on suicide.
we are talking about a totally dependent woman who has to be the center of attention. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 7/12/2009 2:29:38 PM | My ex plays these kinds of games. Every time the kid goes to her house for visitation, she gets a steady stream of hate daddy speech.
I do my best to assure her that I don't hate her mother, and that she shouldn't either. I also do my best to make sure that she knows that I support contact with her mother, even though what she is told angers me to no end. In the end, the only way I'm going to be happy is if the kid grows up to be happy. And the only way the kid is going to grow up to be happy is if she's encouraged to get to know both parents, and make her own choice. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 7/12/2009 2:41:43 PM | I dont do it. Im not going to look like a **** for running my kids dads into the ground. If they want to talk crap about me, I dont let it bother me. One day the kids will realize how petty the parent is thats talking bad and may not want to me around them anymore. I would love to keep my children in my life even when they are adults so Im not going to badmouth anyone to them.
My parents divorced when I was 17. Even to this dad if one talks about the other in a bad way I walk away and dont talk to that parent til my distaste is gone. I find its rude and gross. I wouldnt want my kids to talk bad about someone they have been close with and I for sure dont want to give the impression the man I had a child and years of my life spent with them is an idiot, hows that look for me? Like Im an idiot for sticking around as long as I did. LOL | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 7/12/2009 9:19:05 PM | | thats nice in a fantisy world :however in real life , anger is a natural emotion. most people have never heard or seen an anger alternative class. for those who are interested, it does help but is usualy after the damage is to late. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 8/7/2009 9:02:09 AM | | It all depends on what the individual sees as abuse. is it seen as a way to make myself look good, or is it away of avoiding reality. my ex abusises my eldest son by badmouthing me and he has brought up disiplin from his early teanage years. the attempt is to keep his thinking like a 13 year old instead of a 44 year old man. because he is somewhat retrderd he does not see the problem. his mother has used the same practice of manipulation to destroy his marriage and other relationships. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 8/7/2009 12:56:11 PM | | I would not bad mouth any childs dad to that child. I would, however, go thru the correct channels if I felt it necessary to protect my child if I felt their dad was harming them emotionally or physically. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 8/7/2009 7:20:11 PM | The thing to remember is kids love their parents. Even if they are creeps or witches, and they do not like anyone speaking bad of the person they love.
If a mom takes good care of her kids, washes the bo bo's and tucks them in at night, makes dinner and washes clothes.. and does not rage on them or act irrationally.. the kids will not believe Dad ad will resent him if he speaks ill of Mom.
when you decide if you are going to speak ill of your ex or not remember that you are talking about someone your kid loves, not somebody you used to love.
If your kid asked why you got divorced just say Me your and Daddy did not get along well. then tell them as is age appropriate. If he was abusive I think talking to a teen girl about abuse and how you overcame it is importnant. Odds are she is going to follow you into an abusive relationship and speaking to her about it in a matter of fact way (not hatin onn Dad) will help her deal with it or speak to you about it when it happens | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 8/7/2009 7:39:29 PM | NewCaneyTX
I agree with you on this..My ex and I have our private stuff that went on.I dont and will not speak ill of him..I dont allow anyone to speak of him negative in front or around where they can hear what they say..I know my daughter loves him to bits even though he choose not to be around for the due to his own "issues"..Childern need to be left out of the parents problems. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 8/7/2009 7:54:41 PM | | My mother did this to my siblings and I. I remember she said he was a dead-beat but I later learned that she was just horrible with money. My father paid child support. there was a time when he was living out of his car, looking for work and he still helped us out with money. I'm lucky to have maintained contact with my father because he's the man I look up to. this kind of childish behavior just makes me disgusted with some people. slr245 is right though. most kids will figure it out and make their own judgments. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 8/18/2009 11:41:40 AM | HOORAY to a gutsy Judge. I would truly appreciate more info on this case as I have this situation. Can you send me a link to a newspaper or a case number or anything that will help me get ahold of this info to use in my own case in court. I truly appreciate it and thaks a million for posting this. S | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 8/18/2009 11:51:59 AM | | It is one thing to be candid in your answer BUT it also sounds to me like you have never been personally involved in a family court issue. Judges hate to make decisions in a case. They want the family to do it themselves. I hope you never have to go to court but if you do you will learn it is a whole other world and you are no longer in control. Your entire life in under a microscope. Court takes forever and the ones who truly suffer are the children. This is the courts fault!!! It needs to change. | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 8/18/2009 4:41:47 PM | Canadian Family law is screwy...
Many years ago, I used too work with a guy... his ex, had their kid... her boyfriend tried to kill the kid...
He was prosecuted and convicted...
But she was nuts and married the guy when he got out of jail...
During all this my buddy tried to get custody...
Well, she stalled, changed lawyers and dragged it on in court after court...
Eventually the judge determined she had a more stable environment for he child as she was married, and my buddy worked shift work...
My buddy bought a house, got to steady days, arranged his mom to live with him so as to always provide a person to be available to look after his son...
Nope. judges kept ruling in her favour...
The day his son was old enough to make his own decision on who to live with , he walked into court, told the judge off, and the woman, and her lawyer and declared he was moving in with his father that afternoon... Fortunately, he's a great guy... he's still lives with his Dad... they get along great like two peas in a pod... he's old enough now to pan his own life and has a pretty girlfriend... and a great job....
My buddy told me the legal costs probably exceeded $200,000 and at that, in the long run they just dragged it out.... | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:01:14 PM |
Nope. judges kept ruling in her favour...
She married the guy who tried to KILL her son? And the judge left the child in that home? HOW is that possible?
The day his son was old enough to make his own decision on who to live with , he walked into court, told the judge off, and the woman, and her lawyer and declared he was moving in with his father that afternoon... Fortunately, he's a great guy... he's still lives with his Dad... they get along great like two peas in a pod... he's old enough now to pan his own life and has a pretty girlfriend... and a great job....
My buddy told me the legal costs probably exceeded $200,000 and at that, in the long run they just dragged it out....
What an AWESOME ending to the story! That kid rocks!!! | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:37:18 PM |
What an AWESOME ending to the story! That kid rocks!!!
By the end of it all, my buddies lawyer was practically charging him nothing for her services... basically doing it for expenses she was so annoyed with the system and the judges...
Yeah he turned out ok... I was in a bar last winter and him and his father came in for a beer... I spent the evening hanging out with them... they are more like buddies now than parent / son... | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 8/18/2009 7:59:56 PM | | Bless you for answering me and so quickly. I will follow your directions. I am a custodial parent and this is devestating. NY courts are no different than Canadian it seems. Yes I do believe the story of the boy and the insane judge who left him there. Thank God for such a happy ending. I can only pray for the same. Thank you for your answer and support. Q | |
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| Mother loses custody for alienating kids from their father
Posted: 8/18/2009 8:18:34 PM |
Bless you for answering me and so quickly. I will follow your directions. I am a custodial parent and this is devestating. NY courts are no different than Canadian it seems. Yes I do believe the story of the boy and the insane judge who left him there. Thank God for such a happy ending. I can only pray for the same. Thank you for your answer and support. Q
If you are the custodial parent, how does this relate to you? | |
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