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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???      Home login  
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 allegiant_one
Joined: 6/3/2008
Msg: 26
would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
If the Republicans keep kissing up to Rush and his cult, they're condemning themselves to marginal status.


I don't agree with that statement. In the past election, Conservatives were marginalized through the nomination of "moderate" John McCain. From the outset, McCain was constantly trying to make himself out to be Conservative, but his RECORD showed otherwise. He tried to "make nice" to the Conservatives, but he was way too moderate and bi-partisan. For what reason? Maybe he thought thats what Americans yearn for, but it is unrealistic in Politics. So what we seen with the McCain nomination was the fragmentation of the Republican Party.

I've listened to Rush's show. I didn't hear anything "cultic" in it. Perhaps you can explain that with some examples. Your statement does sound like what I hear from Liberal pundents, but how is Rush's show "cultic"? When I listen, I hear references to the Constitution, Freedom and Liberty, smaller and non-invasive Government and that America is the greatest Country on Earth. Even when Bush was President, Rush was criticizing what he and the Republicans were doing regarding the outrageous Spending. To me, (and I don't listen to Rush everyday) Rush seems to resinate with the average American, because the Politicians in Washington aren't listening.


Elections aren't won by appealing to the choir - you have to win those who can vote either way. In our lifetime we saw Labour in Britain keep getting beat by a deeply unpopular Margaret Thatcher. They managed to pull that off by making themselves even more unpopular. If you let those who will never stray set your policies and choose your candidates you alienate everyone else.


That's a "one-sided" statement, considering you are pointing it directly at the Republican Party. What about the Democrat Party? Both Parties have their "choirs". I believe they are called "Political Bases". These bases won't stray...ever. However, what we saw with the Republican Party was an "experiment". They nominated a moderate candidate to represent them in the Presidential election, eventhough the base was Conservative. It would be like the Democrats nominating a Pro-Life or an Anti-Union candidate to represent them in a Presidential Election. It would cause fragmentation.

Like I said earlier, the ones in the "middle" who can vote either way are usually Independents ie not affiliated with the Democrats or Republicans, Liberals or Conservatives. They're not part of either "Base" and are up-for-grabs. Either candidate, Democrat or Republican can draw them depending on how well they articulate.


And the Republican party today is way, way more extremist than Bevan was in the 50's in the UK.


Is it? I guess it would depend on who you ask.
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 27
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/5/2009 9:40:17 PM
As a number of pundits have pointed out, Rush's knowledge of the Constitution is a bit hazy. "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, and doesn't contain the word "freedom." Any bright 6th grader would know that, but-

riight, we're talking about Rush.

Rush is an entertainer, a loudmouth radio personality- not a journalist, and not a politician. He doesn't have to adhere to the journalists' credo of accuracy, and he doesn't have the politicians' responsibility to a constituency. He can bully, lie, distort facts, and libel as much as his lawyers will allow, because it's all about Rush and Rush's ability to rake in money- not about the truth and not about the country he claims to care about. Basically, he's a fraud, and the Republican Party won't be viable again until someone shows some backbone and puts him in his place.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 28
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/6/2009 2:51:11 PM
What irritates me as a Conservative is the mis-labeling of Rush, Hannity, and for that matter the current base of the GOP as Conservatives. Although they do share some similar ideas as Conservatives, they are anything but.

Both share a belief that all able bodied Americans should work hard and struggle to better their own situations, Conservatives also don't believe in Government funding to Central American rebel groups to destabilize governments that want to make the US compete on the open market for those nations' natural resources as the current GOP does. Nor do Conservatives believe in invading a country under false pretenses to "spread Democracy" as the current GOP does.

Conservatives don't consider legislating morality as defined by set Judeo Christian principles for every Citizen of the USA whether they be Christian, Agnostic, Muslim, or Buddhist as the current GOP does.

Conservatives consider every American as an American regardless of whether they subscribe to the same beliefs as we do whereas the current base of the GOP automatically labels anyone that isn't a Conservative as Anti-American.

Conservatives also see no validity to invasion of privacy for the purposes of national security. The GOP championed Patriot Act was a massive victory for Al Qaeda after 9/11.

You want to see a real Conservative? Look at Ron Paul. Read the platforms of the Libertarian, Constitution, and Green Parties. There you will see what real Conservatives are and then recognize that the Republican base is almost as far away as are Liberals.

John McCain was a great choice for President had he stayed John McCain, but to get the nomination he was forced to resort to the GOP base's demands that their candidates run on the same slogans of fear and loathing.

Independent voters are more discriminating voters than was implied in earlier posts and typically are more swayed by substance than appearances. Let's face it... "Pals around with Terrorists", "Jeremiah Wright", and "Socialist" offered zero substance in the past election. McCain himself didn't lose the election and the Independents did not vote for the pretty boy. This is a time where slogans of fear have no place and offer nothing to the American people and until the GOP figures out how to purge these "Fake Conservatives" from their base, they will continue to diminish in significance.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 29
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/6/2009 3:00:18 PM

This is a time where slogans of fear have no place and offer nothing to the American people and until the GOP figures out how to purge these "Fake Conservatives" from their base, they will continue to diminish in significance.


If I were the chief Republican strategist (stay with me here) I would have absolutely no interest in purging them from my base. Same reason the Democratic party should have no interest in purging those who think Bush orchestrated the bombing of the WTC. As long as they vote, keep them onside.

But, I wouldn't put them in charge of the platform. For the same reason the conspiracy theorists don't make policy for the Democrats. Having the Presidential candidate have to make nice with Falwell, or the leader of the GOP have to apologize to Rush is akin to prominent Democrats kissing up to the Unabomber.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 30
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/6/2009 7:47:36 PM
Limbaugh may be an entertainer but too many Republicans do look up to him as their Oracle. Their spiritual leader.

I do see what you are saying HT Dad, if the GOP could find a leader that would be more an actual Conservative he could bring some of them back from that fringe viewpoint shared by people like Limbaugh and Gingrich to name a few. Give the Republican Party back to those who stand for the more level and true ideals of Conservatism.

I thought Steele had a chance by calling out Limbaugh and his beliefs for what they are but dashed those hopes when he apologized. Score another one for the Ayatollah Limbaugh.
 Close_2_U
Joined: 7/21/2007
Msg: 31
would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/8/2009 5:31:07 AM
The five words that some are outraged about from Mr. Limbaugh, were five words out of a 400 word comment. I really wonder if those that are pounding those 5 words from Rush ever took the time to see what CONTEXT was surrounding those words. I doubt they read it, or listened to it. Where is the "open society" that we were supposed to get where opposing points of view were listened to? Why would we want socialism (Government dominating our personal lives to the extent that government limits the height to which we may achieve)? Why would we want to put measures in place to bring about the end of the concept that has made the USA a capitalistic success?

Part of Rush's entertainment value is in sarcasm and humor. I firmly believe that many if not most of the rush haters do not understand the humor that Rush uses. I would bet that much of their hatred stems from taking humorous comments as fact.

I will also venture to say that many of those that dislike Rush have personalities that display aspergers (simply put, having difficulty in understanding sarcasm and humor)

www.AspergersSociety.org

The largest concern with Rush is that we now have a private citizen (who is NOT the leader of the Republican party and who only about 30% of the country have even listened to), a private citizen who is now being targeted by the President of a country, this country, as being an enemy of state. This point is the bigger concern.

America, home of the Free, or only home of the Free if we all think alike.

 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 32
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/8/2009 7:07:22 AM

America, home of the Free, or only home of the Free if we all think alike.


Rush couldn't have said it better himself.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 33
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/8/2009 7:42:18 AM

Give the Republican Party back to those who stand for the more level and true ideals of Conservatism.


I was wondering if you could possibly enlighten me as what these ideals might be. Every conservative I know (and I both live and work in areas that have majorities) seem to possess ideals that are closer to the Limbaugh way of thinking (but most know when he is spouting off and exaggerating) than the ideals you've espoused as "true conservatism". I am asking this to truly try to understand what your definition of that phrase means. I am also respectfully offering the possibility that this may be where the GOP is now, and it's no longer the party for you, if you are at odds with it more often than not. All I'm saying is, parties change ideaology all the time--the democrats sure aren't the same party that was around when JFK was elected.

Good or bad, we may be stuck with what we have. And I don't agree with everything the republican party stands for either, but I sure do agree with them way more than I do the democrats.
 cncgandolf
Joined: 7/29/2007
Msg: 34
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/8/2009 9:50:48 AM
"We need the Rush Limbaughs of the world--they provide a necessary service by forcing us to take stands on issues--to dig deeper into our core beliefs, and to challenge ourselves to think and act with more breadth. "

I have a problem with this concept of the role of entertainers. It is not their role to incite. That is not entertainment. Might be insurrection since he does call republicans to rebel against the administration ... blanket rebellion vs a move to a collaborative congress.

The extremist counter would have been if democrats in congress were told to not 'just' listen to MoveOn.org ... their extremist political view. Limbaugh and Moveon might be fine in a college debate where consensus is not the goal. But, in congress the goal is consensus and team work .. ont insurrection.
 cncgandolf
Joined: 7/29/2007
Msg: 35
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/8/2009 9:54:17 AM
"it's no longer the party for you,"

Yep... that's why I left it. I am a moderately pro-life (pro-moderate) fiscal conservative. A centrist. The Republican party has turned into a party of fear, hate, warmongering and financial greed. In my experience they are about as unchristian as can be. They stand up for nothing that Christ stood up for. I know many ahtiests who stand up for what Christ stood up for much more often then I find it in the republican party anymore.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 36
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/8/2009 11:06:29 AM

I have a problem with this concept of the role of entertainers. It is not their role to incite. That is not entertainment. Might be insurrection since he does call republicans to rebel against the administration ... blanket rebellion vs a move to a collaborative congress.


Regardless of whether or not we have a problem with the concept, it is a fact. The Limbaughs of the world do, indeed, incite, despite what we consider their role to be.

Rush Limbaugh, Lenny Bruce, Jay Leno--all entertainers, all, on some level, incite listeners to think and to question and, hopefully, to act.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 37
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/8/2009 7:41:26 PM
Every conservative I know (and I both live and work in areas that have majorities) seem to possess ideals that are closer to the Limbaugh way of thinking (but most know when he is spouting off and exaggerating) than the ideals you've espoused as "true conservatism".


So you totally missed my point which boils down to you don't know any Conservatives.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 38
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/8/2009 10:23:24 PM

So you totally missed my point which boils down to you don't know any Conservatives.



No, I don't know any conservatives that are more closely in line with your ideology than they are radio pundits. Your point was taken to mean--and you've proven this by the above statement--that a true conservative must have your ideology in order to be a "true conservative". I can't argree with that statement. Since your brand of conservatism has fallen by the wayside by the majority of those in power positions in the party (according to your comments in other posts), wouldn't that understandably mean that the ideological definition for a "true conservative" has changed? Maybe not your own personal definition, but the party's definition of itself. So therefore you'd look for the party which most closely resembles whatever your definition of "true conservative" is.

I didn't miss your point, but you didn't answer my question.

I was not asking this for any reason other than to gain insight, I have no intention of responding with negative retorts or derogatory remarks of any kind.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 39
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/8/2009 10:44:22 PM

I will also venture to say that many of those that dislike Rush have personalities that display aspergers (simply put, having difficulty in understanding sarcasm and humor)

I don't have Aspergers--(though, I work with some folks who do)--have a great sense of humor, appreciate good sarcasm, and I dislike Rush Limbaugh.
Limbaugh puts forth his opinion as if it were fact--and the Rushophiles lap it up as such. Part of his shtick is to make inflammatory statements, which he does well and often.
I recognize it for the crap it is, however, others are not able to discern the crap from the truth, and therein lies the problem.

I would venture to say that those who worship at the Limbaugh altar display difficulty in thinking for themselves--Dittohead Disease.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 40
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/8/2009 11:12:51 PM
Yeah, the Asberger's comment was just wrong in every way - the guy clearly got his ideas about the condition from TV, not any experience with individuals.

And I've heard Rush. He's good at radio. Sometimes he can be funny, sometimes not when he tries to be (as when he called a prepubescent Chelsea Clinton a dog). But it's pretty easy to tell when he's going for humour - it's not exactly dry wit. And the attempts to pretend his serious rants are attempts at humour aren't going to convince anyone.

He has his cult - and I use that term because so much of what he says has to be taken on faith in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary - but he needs to keep preaching to the faithful. Any exposure to the non-believers results in humiliating exposure. ABC put him on Monday Night Football till he showed his racism.

Which is why the Democrats want to make him the public face of the GOP. No rational person will ever be swayed by his delusional take on reality.
 tallskier
Joined: 5/20/2005
Msg: 41
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/9/2009 11:36:34 AM

The company value being traded does not have to have an increase or decrease in value for it's stock to rise or fall, Wall Street is a playing field without rhyme or reason


Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean is is "without rhyme or reason".
 Close_2_U
Joined: 7/21/2007
Msg: 42
would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/9/2009 6:37:55 PM
uh... no. The asbergers comment was well thought out and accurate. Many (not all), think Rush's humor is intended as fact, and get the facts mixed up with humor.

Don't forget about another entertainer, Barack Obama. If entertainers have the job of amusing us, it is kind of hard to say that Obama is not an entertainer. (no need to give examples here, every news source is full of it... left, right... or somewhere inbetween. )

The difference between Liberal and Conservative at the core:

Conservative = Pay your own bills and be responsible for what you do in life no matter if it is success or failure.

Liberal = Government will save our butt, and if we get in financial trouble, government should bail us out.

Not all republicans are conservative, however, most people consider conservatives republicans. Lumping the extremists as good examples of conservatives is like saying that everyone in Chicago likes Polish hotdogs.

........
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 43
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/9/2009 7:03:22 PM

ABC put him on Monday Night Football till he showed his racism.


It was ESPN (at least that was where he made the Donovan McNabb comment). He was in the running for ABC but was beaten out by Dennis Miller.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 44
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/9/2009 7:16:04 PM
At the risk of getting all nitpicky - this was back when Monday Night Football was on ABC. And they did try him out there for a while. Till they had to fire him since he's a racist.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 9/17/2008
Msg: 45
would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/9/2009 9:13:19 PM


The difference between Liberal and Conservative at the core:

Conservative = Pay your own bills and be responsible for what you do in life no matter if it is success or failure.

Liberal = Government will save our butt, and if we get in financial trouble, government should bail us out.


Well those are certainly good stereotypical differences...and certainly the pejorative types used to cast aspersions around these forums...but hardly fair or accurate in either case...unless I was looking for something to describe as butt-kissing vs. partisan flame-bait.

Think harder, Homer.



Don't forget about another entertainer, Barack Obama. If entertainers have the job of amusing us, it is kind of hard to say that Obama is not an entertainer.


Ahh...ok...so balance, is perhaps NOT going to be your forte in this outing I take it?
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 46
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/9/2009 9:35:15 PM
Sorry HTD----from wiki (you can get all the legitimate sources from which these excepts were taken there):

In 2000, ABC considered adding Limbaugh to their Monday Night Football broadcast team before deciding on comedian Dennis Miller instead.

Sunday NFL Countdown controversy
On July 14, 2003, ESPN announced that Limbaugh would be joining ESPN's Sunday NFL Countdown show as a weekly analyst when it premiered on September 7. Limbaugh would provide the "voice of the fan" and was supposed to spark debate on the show.[69] On the September 28 episode of Countdown, Limbaugh commented about Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb's role in his team's 0-2[70] start to the season, as well as the media's coverage of McNabb:

“ Sorry to say this, I don't think he's been that good from the get-go. I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team.[71] ”

On October 1, 2003, Limbaugh resigned from ESPN with the statement:

“ My comments this past Sunday were directed at the media and were not racially motivated. I offered an opinion. This opinion has caused discomfort to the crew, which I regret. I love Sunday NFL Countdown and do not want to be a distraction to the great work done by all who work on it. Therefore, I have decided to resign. I appreciate the opportunity to be a part of the show and wish all the best to those who make it happen.[72]

____________________________________________________________


Now did ABC hire him after this happened (which would be suicide for the network) or did he work for them before this and he made a "racist" comment there which would have made ESPN look like fools for hiring him if it were in fact true?
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 47
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/10/2009 5:35:37 PM

“ My comments this past Sunday were directed at the media and were not racially motivated. I offered an opinion. This opinion has caused discomfort to the crew, which I regret. I love Sunday NFL Countdown and do not want to be a distraction to the great work done by all who work on it. Therefore, I have decided to resign. I appreciate the opportunity to be a part of the show and wish all the best to those who make it happen.


Rush is nothing but a shock jock, and nothing will give me more pleasure then to see him eating crow when now President Obama, his staff and his supporters get this economy turned around and going in the right direction
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 48
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would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/10/2009 7:31:58 PM

Rush is nothing but a shock jock, and nothing will give me more pleasure then to see him eating crow when now President Obama, his staff and his supporters get this economy turned around and going in the right direction


What if they don't?
 Close_2_U
Joined: 7/21/2007
Msg: 49
would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/11/2009 8:09:37 PM
Lets try this:

http://www.stephaniemiller.com/

http://www.wegoted.com/

airamerica.com/lionel

nope, I never posted with the intent of balance. Merely stating opinions. Worth what they cost you. The above web sites are notably left leaning. Left talk radio, and people that I have listened to entire programs of. I have called into the Lionel show, as it is relatively easy to do. Lionel is an expert moderator. I wonder if those that do not approve of Rush, have listened to entire programs, or days of programs. Probably not.

There were several posts about Warren Buffet the other day, on the above sites and on Rush. IF you went to the above sites, you did NOT find the comments made by Buffet that were negative about Obama ( actual quotes and sound bites that were aired on other venues). On Rushs program, you did not get all the sound bites by Buffet that were favorable to Obama, but of course you got the negative ones..... and Rush is the liar because he didn't play the favorable comments?? And Jim Cramer? A noted Liberal who is now getting death threats from the left because he made an unfavorable comment about Obama.

I don't really care if something is left or right, accuracy is more important, and I do my best to hear the different perspectives.

My unfavorable views of Obama stem from the following sources: Brian Tracy, Joe Gerard, Tom Hopkins, Tom Peters and Napoleon Hill. Especially Brian Tracy. He talks about personality, characteristics, and what to look for. These sources, not a simple radio talk show host, go much further in depth.

Oh, and yes... Obama is very entertaining..... at least until I think about what he is doing, or could be doing.

 la_mom
Joined: 10/26/2006
Msg: 50
would Bush and the republicans have gotten away with this???
Posted: 3/12/2009 9:01:16 AM
No, no, no.....Limbaugh never said he wanted AMERICA to fail....he said he wanted Obama to fail. I personally think that if Obama succeeds...America fails. I think this is what Rush was referring to.......could someone PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE start with the whole "earmarks" thing and explain Obama to me....if you can....I PROMISE i will listen.....he campaigned on the fact that he would END...END...earmarks.....I will gladly concede that a portion of the earmarks belong to GOP congressmen. But, how do you say....I'm gonna end it and then implement the most radical fiscal legislation EVER in the US?
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