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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 2/21/2009 9:30:08 AM | Well, you can't say "Linux or OS X" is a no-brainer in comparison, because let's face it, both run far less apps to get the job done. Games are a fraction of a percent on both platforms compared to Windows (and the gaming market is HUGE).
Yes, OS X is much more stable, far more secure and all around a much prettier and more thought out designed OS. The problem? Mac Hardware. I LOVE Macs. Been a User since 2001, before a Mac was "cool." But for me to have to pay 3000 bucks to get the performance of what I can build a computer for running Windows for under 1K, is ridiculous. I realize there won't be driver or hardware problems, and the interface, both digital and physical are much more appealing. But 3k is a hell of a lot of money (And I'm talking PowerMac, errr, Mac Pro, now.)
Linux? HA! Yeah, you try getting your AVERAGE computer user to run Linux. They won't know what the hell is going on. Compile? Why the hell should *I* have to compile anything?! YOU wrote the program, compile it, zip it, and send it on it's way. The reason I am not on Linux is because Adobe apps don't run native. And I <3 photoshop.
The problem with Windows, is that they HAVE 7 different ****ing versions of their OS. SEVEN. OS X has two. A server and a client. Linux is just an all-around badass when it comes to servers, but it's client-side still isn't user friendly enough.
When will MS learn that 7 different choices of OS does NOT help the industry, it hurts it? | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 2/21/2009 11:59:30 PM | | I would like for them to release 3 Beta's before going to RC. I mean if it sets the gold release back another 3 months by adding an extra Beta then so be it. People would rather wait a little longer and get a solid gold release then to have a product rushed out and get a buggy gold release that they have to download a lot of patches to fix the problems that should have been fixed during the beta stages. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 2/24/2009 5:56:54 AM |
OS X is much more stable, far more secure and all around a much prettier and more thought out designed OS
Send your thanks to the folks at BSD. You know - the Unix people. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/10/2009 10:24:12 AM | RE msg 20 by satsumo:
Not so long ago someone high up at MS said (I'm paraphrasing a little) -
'You can't fix all the bugs in a PC game, Windows is too complicated for a game to handle every possible problem. Just fix the majority problems, it isn't worth the cost of trying to fix them all.' That's the biggest load of horse manure I've ever heard of.
First, if you've been playing Halo for 16 hours straight, and it doesn't save your game correctly, or it crashes and corrupts your game files, you'll be furious. Games are one of the few areas where you cannot afford a crash, unlike in business apps, where all you need to do is ensure that if it does crash, that you can restart the app.
Second, any programmer worth his salt, can tell you that you can deal with every problem. You just use error trapping for every error, and then you just separate the error trapping to handle specific errors that you want to deal with, and the rest like a general crash for any other reason. Every OS should be using solid code.
RE msg 22 by satsumo:
Direct X actually has a generic fail return code, which simply means some unspecified thing went wrong while the game is running. There is no way to resolve it. MS docs suggests you tell the user and close the program. Mostly it's caused by drivers, though MS seem happy to change things with no thought to consequences for the user. That's friggin' awful. I cannot stand it when programs don't return proper error structures, because then simple problems cannot be handled, and you end up having to tell the client to not use that sound card or video card, because the drivers won't work with your app.
No wonder I used to find so many games used GUI4DOS, and bypassed DirectX altogether. They got so fed up with all the Windows problems, that they just built their own mini-OS. Much stabler, too. Never crashed on me.
That said, I doubt 7 will differ from XP much in this respect. The only differences would be driver issues caused by a new driver model and fewer system resources for a game. This is going to be a much bigger problem with Windows 7, because I went to a conference on Visual Studio 2008, and they said that the GUI on standard Microsoft windows in business apps, is going to run directly on the sound and graphics cards, via the next generation of DirectX engine, Direct 3D. So if your driver fails in any way, then so will Direct 3D, and then it will return the failure to your app. If Direct 3D only has a generic fail return code, you cannot tell what part of your app failed, like if you tried to use focus on a control that was hidden, or was disabled, or for any other reason. I really hope they've sorted that out with Direct 3D, or it will drive Windows programming back to the stone age. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/11/2009 6:19:32 PM |
That's the biggest load of horse manure I've ever heard of.
The article was called Setting The Bar, it was in Game Developer magazine in 2007. This is a direct quote -
'Chris Hind and Dan Bell, two test engineers from the Microsoft Games Test Organization have a theory about why developers should just let go and accept that some bugs are inevitable'
OK, so they aren't as high up as I remember. However I think they would have had to get approval from higher up the MS hierarchy before being able to publish the article.
This is going to be a much bigger problem with Windows 7, because ... the GUI on standard Microsoft windows in business apps, is going to run directly on the ... DirectX engine. So if your driver fails in any way, then so will Direct 3D, and then it will return the failure to your app. If Direct 3D only has a generic fail return code...
Excuse my paraphrasing you a little.
D3D has lots of specific return codes, the generic fail is just one of them and it happens very rarely. Its there becasue Windows is an inherently unpredictable system, MS need a get out. A way to say, 'We've changed things so that something your doing won't work anymore', or that the driver has crashed. Their advice on what to do about it amounts to 'give up'.
And yes, I agree using DX for the system is a bad move. It's going to either slow down DX for games, or make the system less reliable. System graphics should be stable, game graphics should be fast, you can't have it both ways. It's a very power intensive way to make a few flashy graphical effects. At one point, MS swore they would not do this. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/13/2009 9:36:36 AM | i am on build 7057 beta right now. it is so sweeet. no 3rd party firewalls are compatible yet. i tried running pctools threatfire but i got bluescreened by it. eset AV v4 working great. in some forums they say 7057 is an RC1.
pic of my desktop right now:
http://photoserver.ws/files/5h2sv4opfvclr9ym77.png | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/13/2009 4:32:24 PM |
it is so sweeet. no 3rd party firewalls are compatible yet. i tried running pctools threatfire but i got bluescreened by it.
You can't see the irony in that statement? | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/13/2009 9:42:04 PM | | It was better then Vista, when it was testing the Pre-Beta as far as i'm concerned and that's not saying much about Vista. In 2 years no one is going to care about Vista. MS just wants to sweep it under the table asap, which is why I think Service Pack 2 will be the last Vista Service Pack. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/15/2009 7:22:18 PM | | Doubt it, some corporations and government departments will be switching to Windows Server 2008, which is a corporate build of Vista. As long as they exist, there would be a service pack. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/15/2009 8:18:56 PM | | Yeah but Windows Server 2008 isn't the same as Vista. Even though they are built around the 6.x kernal, Windows Server 2008 is using kernal 6.1 which is much improved in many aeras over Vista's 6.0 kernal. Matter of fact Windows 7 uses the same kernal as Windows Server 2008 , which is part of the main reasons why Windows 7 in Beta is better then Vista with Service Pack 1. As far as Windows 7's kernal goes, it was ready a long time ago, because it uses the same kernal as Windows Server 2008 kernal, which is also a big reason why Windows 7 will have a short pre RTM testing peroid. The only thing that's not finished yet is some tweaking here and there to the settings and GUI. Other then that's it's basicly finished now. Windows 7 RC1 that comes out in April should be the last if not next to the last pre RTM before Windows 7 goes RTM in Aug. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/16/2009 3:27:19 PM |
I can give you the reality answer in that one - "Not soon enough"
While I am mildy irritated at Microsoft for trying to fix things that aren't broken, I have Vista and I am quite satisfied with it. A lot of people hate on Vista for reasons I can't fathom. I have had it since 6 months after it came out and I haven't had any problems. Getting older programs to be compatible with it has only required some minor tweaks under the hood. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/16/2009 6:39:21 PM | | anyone who likes vista now, is gonna want to upgrade to windows 7. its just quicker, leaner, and prettier. i dislike vista, and would take windows 7 anyday over vista. have been on build 7057 beta now for a week with no probs. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/18/2009 5:14:11 AM | Both Vista and Win 7 are the only OS's that ever froze during the Installation on my Computer. Win98/2K/XP and just about every Linux Distro ... never a Problem, and all my Hardware more than exceeds their Requirements.
Don't matter anyways, I was just gonna have a look at it and play with it for a few Hours before cleaning it off anyways.
Since no Install Progress Messages were given like for OS's in the Past, its anyone's Guess where it locked up. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/18/2009 5:29:19 AM | I'd imagine a hardware device issue with the OS trying to config that device somewhere during the installation that caused it to lockup.
I dont' have the breakdown of at what point windows tries to config the hardware dirong an installation for Windows 7 but i'd imagine it's the same as it was on Vista. At what part is it locking up on you during the instalaltion the first part, second part or last part of the installation process? | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/18/2009 5:43:14 AM | RE msg 31 by satsumo:
That's the biggest load of horse manure I've ever heard of. The article was called Setting The Bar, it was in Game Developer magazine in 2007. This is a direct quote - 'Chris Hind and Dan Bell, two test engineers from the Microsoft Games Test Organization have a theory about why developers should just let go and accept that some bugs are inevitable' OK, so they aren't as high up as I remember. However I think they would have had to get approval from higher up the MS hierarchy before being able to publish the article.
Imagine if Halo just crashed mysteriously half-way through a game. People wouldn't buy it. Microsoft Games knows that, which is why I've NEVER had Halo crash on me, even though I've crashed every OS I've ever used. They tested it to oblivion, and removed every last bug.
These test engineers aren't being completely honest. They don't take that stance with Halo, or other Microsoft Games. But they want developers to think that, so that applications on Microsoft OSes don't always work, so that Microsoft can sell developers newer, "better" versions of Microsoft Visual Studio, which run on newer "better", OSes, so that their customers are forced to continually keep upgrading Microsoft OSes and other Microsoft application products. It's all marketing.
At one point, MS swore they would not do this. They might have done. But they HAVE. They have the daftest thing you've ever seen, standard buttons for proper business applications, that can do the flashiest graphics you've ever seen.
The ironic thing is, that the ONE thing that would have made designers' lives fantastic, would have been to include full CSS capability with these applications, because CSS has been around for years, is incredibly stable, and makes most websites that use them, look fantastic, and gives far more functionality, with a stable platform. But the CSS-style performance is incredibly poor. You can only define a style for all buttons, or a style for a class of button. It's like going back to the earliest CSS, and the earliest days of the internet. It means you have to do everything manually anyway. It's just not on.
i am on build 7057 beta right now. it is so sweeet. no 3rd party firewalls are compatible yet. i tried running pctools threatfire but i got bluescreened by it. NO OS SHOULD BE CAPABLE OF A "BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH"! NONE! NOT EVER! Can you understand that?
Heck, even on XP, I cannot remember the last time I got bluescreened. I'm not sure I ever did. NT, yes, lots. XP? I really cannot remember. It's been that far back. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/18/2009 6:15:09 AM | I'd imagine a hardware device issue with the OS trying to config that device somewhere during the installation that caused it to lockup.
Then it has to be a serious Flaw since no other OS is bothered by it. We'd expect Vista/Win 7 to be a little smarter and accomodating than the Rest.
Printers, Scanner, Cam, etc. was all disconnected. Only Mobo Drivers. I even defaulted to the On-Board Video and pulled the GeForce out of its Slot.
I don't buy it. Minimally by now Windows should have advanced far enough to give you an Error Message so you can Debug. H*ll, even Win95b did a better Job of it.
At what part is it locking up on you during the instalaltion the first part, second part or last part of the installation process?
Just as it hits what appears to be the textured Wallpaper of sorts. Not sure where in the Installation it happens, it just hangs after the second re-boot. Safe Mode tells you to finish the Installation. Thanks for that enlightening Message ... lol | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/18/2009 10:40:55 PM | Yeah It could have been the chipset itself on the motherboard that Vista and 7 had a problem with. What kind of motherboard was it? Vista/7 aren't compatible with motherboards that use older versions of SiS, ULi, VIA and nForce 2 and 3 chipsets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NForce3#Windows_Vista_Incompatibility
This might help better explain at what point it freezes during the installation.
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_install_04.asp | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/19/2009 6:23:57 AM |
didn't mean to claim that you were quoting falsely. I was saying that saying "developers should just let go and accept that some bugs are inevitable", is a huge pile of horse manure. I cannot afford to take that attitude, because no boss in the world will let you take that attitude. Sure, some bugs are OK to ignore, if they are the sort of bugs that clients and customers will rarely encounter, and never complain about.
That's funny KDE 4.1 was full of bugs, an open source project full of bugs. MS office didn't update a new MS office exploit which is a bug. Perhaps you don't remember about xp sp1. It was horrible experience for most people.
..........
Windows 7 is crap maybe I'll try it in 3 years, probably not. I used to get blue screen on xp, simply the driver got corrupted. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/19/2009 5:24:57 PM | Asus P5LD2 Chipset, no Issues with that one. This Board will take Win9x and anything up, incl. every Linux Flavour to boot. Most of the People having problems with this type of Board are WinXP installers, but very few of them, and usually overclockers.
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_install_04.asp
That's already a given, pretty much 101 Stuff.
If you intend to dual boot between Vista and any other Windows version, you will need to install the non-Vista OS first.
From that Link, this Info is false. Even the Win 7 Installer tells you nothing less than WinXP SP-2, and it will install in a Dual Config. with Vista. Maybe those Instructs were based on an earlier Beta Release.
Nevertheless, mine was a clean install. You can always edit the Boot Record after manually to add any number of Boot Configurations with multiple OS's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NForce3#Windows_Vista_Incompatibility
Again, no Issue, the Card was pulled.
The Bugs are definitely within Win 7, nothing else. As I said earlier, no other OS has any Install Hiccups, not even Puppy Linux. Neither Vista nor Win 7will run on it.
I don't care anyways, I was just gonna have a look. I am quite happy with my current Quadruple OS Setup as it sits. | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/19/2009 5:52:55 PM |
That's already a given, pretty much 101 Stuff.
I was refeering ot the pictures that you are saying it freezes on the side, because you said it gets to the windows wall papper screen and i was wonder what step in those pictures it go to were it froze.
Again, no Issue, the Card was pulled.
What i was referring to was the motherboards chipset. It looks like it isn't you chipset then causing the problem if it's an Asus P5LD2 Chipset. So we can most def rule that out.
it could be the Rom drive, hard drive or eithernet hardware that Vista or 7 doesn't like. I dunno all i know is i've never had a problem with Vista or 7 freezing up on my computer during the installation | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/19/2009 7:05:46 PM | I was refeering ot the pictures that you are saying it freezes on the side, because you said it gets to the windows wall papper screen and i was wonder what step in those pictures it go to were it froze.
It freezes on the blue textured screen at boot-up. Safe Mode tells me the install is not complete. No Error Message to give any Indicators what might be wrong, and we can only speculate what might be the Cause. An Install run was done both with the Onboard as well as the GeForce, same Deal either Way, so I doubt its a Video Card Issue.
What i was referring to was the motherboards chipset. It looks like it isn't you chipset then causing the problem if it's an Asus P5LD2 Chipset. So we can most def rule that out.
I verified that before the Install.
it could be the Rom drive, hard drive or eithernet hardware that Vista or 7 doesn't like.
All Onboard Stuff, so if it supports the Board, it would automatically support everything else on it. All my Hardware is common stuff, and if anything is wrong with it, some other OS or running Application would have picked up on it at some Point earlier.
No matter, it won't install, I leave it at that. I wouldn't be using it in the future anyways, as I am not faintly interested of yet the next Generation of MS Bloatware Operating Systems. Maybe Win 7 is somewhat faster than Vista, but from what I have seen, I care for neither one of them. I would even wipe WinXP out if I wasn't depended on Photoshop CS4 and the RAW Plug-ins.
Win98/2K are much more to my liking. I can actually get something done. I prefer the feel of 2K and the Speed of W98SE stripped to the Core. Linux I use when I do major Web Searches for Research Projects where it could only be reasonably expected I am gonna run into one Malware Hive after another.
I dunno all i know is i've never had a problem with Vista or 7 freezing up on my computer during the installation
No doubt, my Machine is one of the rare Exceptions. Might have been for my own good ...  | |
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| Windows 7 to come in 6 editions
Posted: 3/19/2009 8:35:47 PM | You should contact microsoft about this issue to see if they got any idea why your computer won't install Vista/7. I wonder if they can get to the bottom of this with you. Who knows maybe someone else is having the same problem.
This is just a shot in the dark here but have you tried Windows 7 RC1 yet? It would be funny if the RC1 installed. | |
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