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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 8:36:58 AM | You have retreated into an ivory tower to protect yourself from the dangers of a world of emotion you have yet to learn to travel safely. Some past tradition of high value placed on intellectual ability gave you a way to be successful, as long as that remains true. So these days the job is to maintain the illusion of intellectual ability, rating highly and so being a good person. It is not conceit, just affirmation. The psychobabble and imaginary altitude serve that purpose. Your fine mind is elevated, deemed good, and so you have a foot hold for your personality. Somehow the emotional development plan got a flat tire and the delay caused missed appointments with many normal human pleasures had with others. There is of course still plenty of time to live, and love.
Nobody has the job of being you except for you, and there is no way you can ever do that job wrong. It is all choices as an adult. So whatever works for you is the right thing to do. If there is any part of life you deem problematic, solutions abound. I won't agree in any case that any person does better without love and intimacy. I can see how it takes being done the right way. I can see how what works for some can't for others. But the basic idea of touch, feeling, pleasure and love as one whole aspect of life, that is not optional, since it is universally human.
Words are a somewhat approach to managing feelings, even when dismissing them and repressing them is the goal. The intellect is reasonable and sometimes intense but cannot be passionate like a kiss can be.
I won't say rudely that you need to get laid. I will say it politely as you need to be loved. I can say this knowing only that you are human. The specific details of your personality, situation and history cannot change it. The details only show the path, not the destination.
I imagine you notice many odd things in the behaviors of others, especially as they attempt to reach you emotionally through sexual expression. These odd things you notice are friends you haven't met yet, like Will Rogers says of strangers.
Engaging in verbal combat protects the balanced ego. It keeps the mirror in focus. It also trades in those undiscovered and banished feelings.
Others see in you the potential of your own passions and pleasures. It may well be true for you that only through intellectual rapport are you ever close or stimulated. But there is also the wordless embrace, and really they are the same. Men run a mile because they are being rebuked by a beautiful woman who squawks as they yank her hair they mistook hanging down from her ivory tower for the staircase to heaven.
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MikeJ
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Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 127 | |
| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 10:32:07 AM |
And that's the crux of it, isn't it? Why would I want to sleep with someone when it wasn't going to be a long term relationship. For many women, the only way they can enjoy sex is to commit emotionally, mentally, and in every respect. So, either the sex isn't enjoyable on a one night stand because it's a one night stand, or a six week stand, or they invest emotionally/intellectually, whatever, and the guy is just sleeping with her because 'the sex is good'. I can't tell you the number of broken women I've sat and listened to for hours while they cried on my shoulder trying to understand why someone they were sleeping with for years ran off the moment marriage was mentioned.... i.e. the male wouldn't consider marriage, but was around for the emotional investment, the sex, etc. Very often, the women gave these things because they understood it was going to lead to marriage.[/qupte] You seem to be under the mistaken impression that you speak for all women. Men should be mind readers now? Given how coldly you probably act in front of men you perceive to be after only one thing, I don't expect you're actually telling them any of this. No, you probably sit there and listen to them then go home and complain about men, blaming them for everything under the sun. Success (not just financially) is not endearing to people who act this way. I think you need to realize that just because a man desires sex, it doesn't mean that's all he's after. Some women don't date men who don't have jobs. Should I call them all gold-diggers? Of course not. But for you, the middle ground seems to be somewhere in the abyss. Yes, they do. And it gets me absolutely nowhere. People are so concerned that they are going to hurt my feelings or my ego or my pride or whatever else, that they don't come out and say things directly. I tend not to understand things that aren't direct. Here's an interesting comment. Do you even tell your "dates" half of the stuff you're telling us now? Or are you being too "polite" to tell them? I will not invest in men emotionally or connect to them emotionally until I've known them for quite a long while and got to know them as people. Only when I know for certain that there is a genuine connection (and that can take 6 months or 6 years or maybe 6 days, because it depends on the intensity of genuine connection and the situation), will I open emotionally. Have a great, lonely life then. This is a two-way street full of compromise, something your genius seems to have missed. I connect intellectually first. By this I mean that I could talk about anything but NOT emotions and not about my feelings and not about personal stuff. It could be anything on the news, or discussing a movie, or whatever, just so long as its impersonal. When I've learned more about the person and we have something in common, emotional connections will develop. That's why I prefer to meet people at dance classes, at school, at volunteer activities, etc. It means one sees somebody regularly over a period of time and sees how they interact with others and what they're like as people.
Completely fair. For once, you've said something that I don't see inherent contradictions in. These days I keep meeting men who want instant access - whether emotional or physical - pretty much immediately. Doesn't work for me. Far more people (men and women) consider sex an integral part of a relationship. you're the black sheep. You either need to communicate this or stop blaming men for your own problems. | |
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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 10:48:12 AM | MikeJ, I don't know quite how you define blame, but I have not ranted about how bad men are. I have brought up some things that I find difficult to relate to. And no, I have never had a conversation with any woman about men. Probably, I should have, but I didn't. Generally, my friends and I don't talk about relationships so much as ideas, theories, events, day to day things. However, on occasion, I have had friends absolutely devastated about being used and that's why I know it's happened. Unfortunately, I could never advise because I didn't know enough to advise. Still don't.
No, of course, I didn't tell men this. I didn't know what the problem was. I repeatedly tried to get help but nobody realized that I had some wiring that didn't work (ADD Type 2 due to wrong wiring in the parietal lobe) so it was never resolved. How could I tell men this when I didn't know it myself, and when I couldn't understand what I was feeling, what they were feeling, what was going on? I'm only discovering this now and working with it now, and sure, now I will tell men about it.
Strangely enough, the reason I get asked out so often is because I'm a warm, friendly person. I have no problems with friendships and friendships DO require warmth. What I have had a problem with is men who come on to me, and where I don't indicate a reciprocal interest/lack of interest. In other words, they don't know where they stand and this frustrates them and they get nasty and accuse me of leading them up the garden path and all sorts of things. By the same token, men who just like me as a human being see me as a warm, loving human being.
I absolutely realize that there are different kinds of men and different kinds of women. By the same token there are groups of men and women who feel the same way and some of these groups are large enough to be spoken of in general terms. A generalisation is exactly that: making a general comment about a general group of people - and not a specific person or group of people that might be different. A general comment refers to a group that is large enough to be recognised as a group.
You are really pissed off by my mentioning my intelligence. Why? Does it make you feel that you can't measure up AND THEREFORE YOU HAVE TO STUFF THE COMMENT IN MY FACE? At no time in my posts have I said or indicated that my intelligence makes me superior. THAT'S YOUR ASSUMPTION AND YOUR BAGGAGE. What I have said is that it is a factor, part of who I am. I DON'T HAPPEN TO THINK INTELLIGENCE MAKES ONE SUPERIOR. I THINK THE THING THAT TRULY MAKES ONE SUPERIOR IS KINDNESS TO OTHERS AND THE ABILITY TO LOVE UNCONDITIONALLY AND NEVER TO CONDEMN OTHERS.  | |
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MikeJ
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Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 129 | |
| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 10:49:07 AM |
Let me give you an example of DUMB. The number of people on this site that have accused me of being arrogant, thinking I'm better than anyone, whatever, is mind blowing. I don't think of myself as better than anyone.
If you don't think that way, then you have problems communicating with people because that is the impression you gave off judging by the response.
That's your interpretation.
Ah, the tired old "everything is subjective" defense. How predictable.
Great communicators speak to their audience, not to themselves. Poor communicators say something ambigious and expect everybody to understand exactly what they mean. If others don't, well they're too ignorant to bother with, right? This seems to be your philosophy with men. What's worse you're blaming men, not yourself.
A brick wall could have anticipated how your post would come off. But you chose to articulate it in that manner anyways. Since you're a genius, what can I conclude except an intentional attempt to glorify yourself? I suppose I could have been wrong, maybe you're just utterly incapable of communicating with people (remember kids, talking is not communicating).
Because you think that anyone who makes those statements must be saying so because they want to put others down. In fact, one might just mention them in order to give a broader perspective of what the real problem is. If one withholds information like that, then accurate information doesn't come in. It's important to see the big picture - so I mentioned the fact that I was considered bright.
And just what about mentioning that you're in the top 1% of the world intelligence wise is necessary? There are dozens of other ways you could say that without coming off as pompous and arrogant. But you chose the one that comes off as exceedingly arrogant.
But hey, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You really weren't trying to be conceited - maybe you just don't have a good grasp of the English language?
See I have no problem with arrogance. I'm as arrogant as they come. What irritates me are people who try to mask that arrogance (particularly when it is very clumsily done) - people need to start being true to themselves.
For the record, the people most likely to accuse others of thinking that they are better than others, are the precise ones who are feeling inferior.
Yes, you got me. You're actually spot on here - I take offense to someone so out of touch saying I (the collective I) am out of touch. It's embarassing and to say nothing would only leave people to think it is true. In an ideal world, I wouldn't have to say anything - everyone would realize your post for what it is. But this is not an ideal world. | |
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MikeJ
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Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 131 | |
| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 10:59:07 AM | MikeJ, I don't know quite how you define blame, but I have not ranted about how bad men are. I have brought up some things that I find difficult to relate to.
How can you say that? Did you even read your first post before you hit the post button?
No, of course, I didn't tell men this. I didn't know what the problem was. I repeatedly tried to get help but nobody realized that I had some wiring that didn't work (ADD Type 2 due to wrong wiring in the parietal lobe) so it was never resolved. How could I tell men this when I didn't know it myself, and when I couldn't understand what I was feeling, what they were feeling, what was going on? I'm only discovering this now and working with it now, and sure, now I will tell men about it.
So you're saying you've been completely oblivious to your feelings for the past 50 years of your life, but finding out the terminology for your "disorder" was an epiphany that led to self-realization? Hah!
Strangely enough, the reason I get asked out so often is because I'm a warm, friendly person. I have no problems with friendships and friendships DO require warmth. What I have had a problem with is men who come on to me, and where I don't indicate a reciprocal interest/lack of interest. In other words, they don't know where they stand and this frustrates them and they get nasty and accuse me of leading them up the garden path and all sorts of things. By the same token, men who just like me as a human being see me as a warm, loving human being.
I thought you weren't ranting about how bad men are? Do you really expect me to believe you when you're saying stuff like this (which, for the record, I have no reason to think is untrue)?
You are really pissed off by my mentioning my intelligence. Why? Does it make you feel that you can't measure up AND THEREFORE YOU HAVE TO STUFF THE COMMENT IN MY FACE?
Like I already said, clumsly attempts to veil intentions is what irritates me. I hate dishonesty and unlike the 99% of people who say they seek honesty, I actually mean it.
At no time in my posts have I said or indicated that my intelligence makes me superior.
This is like neo-nazis claming they're just pro-white. You do realize the subtleties involved here, do you not?
THAT'S YOUR ASSUMPTION AND YOUR BAGGAGE. What I have said is that it is a factor, part of who I am. I DON'T HAPPEN TO THINK INTELLIGENCE MAKES ONE SUPERIOR. I THINK THE THING THAT TRULY MAKES ONE SUPERIOR IS KINDNESS TO OTHERS AND THE ABILITY TO LOVE UNCONDITIONALLY AND NEVER TO CONDEMN OTHERS.
Actually, 99% of dentists will agree that persons claiming to be in the top 1% of the world intelligence wise, being in Mensa, whatever - are full of themselves.
Which is cool. I like arrogant women, but the dishonesty train you're using to haul that arrogance is an irritant. | |
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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 11:03:49 AM | mikej, every single time I have gone for career guidance, in trying to find out why I couldn't hold down a job, why I battled in the work environment, I had to do endless I.Q. and psychometric tests.
If I.Q. wasn't important, why do so many people insist on taking it. And if the results weren't particularly relevant in some way, why did so many people sit there and gasp at my results, and be impressed.
I'm sorry if I mistakenly thought that maybe it was important, but I got that impression from other people. To be arrogant means to sneer at people. The entire tone of all your responses to me have been to put me down. Please note it is only to people like you, who put me down and accuse me of arrogance that I would say something like ' You're stupid". Why do I use the word 'stupid'. Because it seems that this is the one thing that gets through to you. For what it's worth, I don't think in terms of people being stupid. I think in terms of people lacking wisdom, perception, kindness, compassion, etc.
In reality, I think you lack compassion, perception, and don't have enough life experience to read accurately between the lines. | |
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MikeJ
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Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 133 | |
| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 11:10:06 AM |
mikej, every single time I have gone for career guidance, in trying to find out why I couldn't hold down a job, why I battled in the work environment, I had to do endless I.Q. and psychometric tests.
If I.Q. wasn't important, why do so many people insist on taking it. And if the results weren't particularly relevant in some way, why did so many people sit there and gasp at my results, and be impressed.
I'm sorry if I mistakenly thought that maybe it was important, but I got that impression from other people. To be arrogant means to sneer at people. The entire tone of all your responses to me have been to put me down. Please note it is only to people like you, who put me down and accuse me of arrogance that I would say something like ' You're stupid". Why do I use the word 'stupid'. Because it seems that this is the one thing that gets through to you. For what it's worth, I don't think in terms of people being stupid. I think in terms of people lacking wisdom, perception, kindness, compassion, etc.
In reality, I think you lack compassion, perception, and don't have enough life experience to read accurately between the lines.
I never said IQ wasn't important. Personally I don't put much stock in it, but many employers do. That being said, what the hell does whether or not it is important have to do with this discussion? I still haven't heard from you a good reason why it was mentioned in your first post.
I'm waiting for you to realize who you are. 5 years from now, you'll probably want to thank me (but won't - the thing about us conceited people is that we rarely admit when others were right). | |
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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 11:20:06 AM | "I still haven't heard from you a good reason why it was mentioned in your first post.
I'm waiting for you to realize who you are. 5 years from now, you'll probably want to thank me (but won't - the thing about us conceited people is that we rarely admit when others were right). '
Then you didn't read through all the posts because I did say in one post that I said it because I was wondering if it might be relevant. In other words, it might be that the reason men didn't want to talk about these things was because they didn't have the intellect to? It was a possibility and that's why I gave the information.
AS it turns out, that wasn't it. It was that I am impersonal (and that's a much better word to use than intellectual) and I already mentioned that in other posts as well. So obviously you didn't read the other posts. I didn't want to repeat the same information in every single person.
Actually, there have been a number of people on this thread who have helped me tremendously. You haven't. And no, I won't thank you in five years time. That's your arrogance speaking. For what it's worth, I have yet to connect with a Capricorn male (although my closest female friend is a Capricorn). I find them very successful in a material, earlthy sort of way. But they're very limited in understanding the difficulites of people who aren't totally focused on the material, the earthly).
I'm not conceited and have already thanked many people for their input on this thread. If you'd read them you would have noticed over and over again that I conceded when I was wrong, altered perceptions when I thought someone fed me something useful. And those who have taken the time to email me privately and give me useful input (that meant I had to change perspectives) were also thanked and acknowledged. As a result of this, I changed my profile.
Now, the thing here is: YOU ARE SO ARROGANT THAT YOU HAVEN'T TAKEN THE TIME TO READ ANYTHING THAT I RESPONDED TO ANYONE ELSE. IT NEVER OCCURRED TO YOU THAT OTHERS MIGHT BE HELPING ME AND YOU WEREN'T. GET A LIFE, MIKE. AND STOP THINKING YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN CONTRIBUTE.
Goodbye. I'm not conversing with you anymore. You're too much energy, have too little to say that's valid, and don't have an ounce of comprehension about what goes on inside people who are not earthy like yourself. | |
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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 12:40:59 PM | You know, communication is just one of many human skills. It isn't necessarily a reflection of intellect or education and having them doesn't automatically give you the skill to communicate. Even a writer may have difficulty communicating out of their field of expertise.
Communicating is as much about hearing and understanding as it is about sending the message. It's easy to hear and misunderstand and then form a negative opinion based on that misunderstanding. It's much harder for a listener to recognize they misunderstood, reverse their judgement in the light of clarification and attempt to understand. Two parties are responsible for good communication. Only one is responsible for misjudgement! | |
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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 3:57:18 PM | | I can relate - it surprises me how much some women actually get lost in conversation I have with them. Granted sometimes I run off on a tangent - but I suppose there are good and bad things about any of these situations. It is not always about a singular rule or indication which defines our actions, moreso an overall analysis of the situation in whole.. | |
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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 4:06:58 PM | Please, before you write this lady would you please take the time to look over her profile and google the letters she posted a couple of pages back? She has a rare physical condition, I don't know what to call it, other than condition. Scan over the first link after you google. It's very difficult to understand, but she made it clear that she doesn't have the emotional function that the rest of us do. She already said she doesn't like dating and hates sex. So your advice to get laid, to be more emotionally available or that the right man could fix whatever you think is wrong with her is totally inappropriate. She suffers from several different conditions, so please just either try to understand before you lash out at her. She relates to people and emotions differently than most of us do, and can't help it. This is a medical condition and I implore you to try to show some compassion and humanity. I can't thoroughly understand this, there is too much material to read and study, but I did scan it and read a good part of it just to have a bit of understanding. It's very complex, it's an organic condition like diabetes in that she can't help the way her brain processes, and I won't even attempt to explain, read it for yourself.
I can't relate to not wanting to be touched, not wanting or needing physical closeness, being emotionally removed not liking dating, or hating sex. I can't relate but I can try to understand and empathize. I'm just ask you to please do the same. | |
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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 4:46:38 PM | >I'm a very good listener.
Perhaps. The fact is, every woman I've ever met thinks she's a good listener. And you may be. Do you ever slow down enough to let the other person talk? I don't know. I'm just curious. Many women use conversation to distance themselves, rather than gain intimacy.
>It's only in the last 100 years that there's been the big thing about relationships having to do with emotions.
It was frequently a big thing. It just didn't get much press until populist governments started appearing.
>I've met people in marriages like that.
I have too and some work very well.
>It's been about the emotions. I understand that now.
No. I doubt it. It's not a fact you can process. If by age 30, you haven't intuited this, I'm not sure you're able to intuitively feel what emotions others are experiencing at all. I know a woman like this. She can push other people's buttons, metaphorically speaking, and read body language like a book. And that's how she does it. She doesn't experience others whole. She adds the behaviors all up and makes the most probable conclusion. By this time, she's right enough to get by. Sometimes she's absurdly wrong. In addition to this, her insight into her own behavior is um, poor, to put it nicely.
You may not be like this at all, but your posts seem to suggest it again and again. Perhaps I'm just viewing it through the lense of my own experiences. | |
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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 6:05:10 PM | Thanks bucsgirl. You're a great lady!
I've got over it, though. I've already started the healing and readjustment phase and the fact that there are some out there who don't get it right, well I guess they aren't perfect either. I've forgiven them already.
I'm actually happy that I now understand what the problem was and I can now plan how to handle it the next time it happens. :)
Thanks. | |
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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 6:07:37 PM | writing No problem, actually this is such a common reason for miscommunication and failure in relationships. Lack of understanding either intentional or unintentional and personal attacks without giving someone patience when they have a physical problem. I hate to see people derated for no reason, and I just thought some of the posts were outright mean and cruel, some just ignorant of your condition.
I think you're a great lady too. | |
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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 7:24:14 PM | | The art of conversation has gone way of of the dodo....I look for intelligent conversation..mind you I don't look for the phds or masters degrees but for a general awareness or a woman that has something to say....anything that resembles an actual conversation. | |
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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 8:25:22 PM | This thread started with the assertion that "men do not like intrelligent women". This is blatantly false. In my opinion, most women who make that complaint have other issues and are just using this as an excuse.
Refer to her earlier post where she said she decided "not to relate emotionally to men". As long as she takes this position her chances of a successful relationship with a man who would stimulate her intellectually are somewhere between zero and the square root of minus 1. | |
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| Why do men run a mile from a girl with a brain and a yen for using it?
Posted: 6/26/2005 10:16:15 PM | | @ nomo Perhaps...but I'll give you a piece of advice good sir....a gentleman would never say what you just did...it's low, crass, and quite frankly anyone who brings personal things into a thread like that, just doesn't have common decency. She's not perfect and if you all bothered to read the threads and profile, you might see that she is trying to improve her faults, "wow easy target practice" shows she's probably right about alot of men...just my very strong opinion on this matter... read before you run your mouthes smart a***s! | |
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