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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/4/2009 6:36:45 PM | well, time to deal with the real world. i just read that third marriage success rates were worse than second marriages. however, i'd need to look more at the data. for example, what were the reasons for the people getting married and what were the reasons for getting divorced. i'd like to know their ages, locations, times between marriages and whether their first or second marriages ended in divorce or death. after all that, i'd start figuring it out.
there are several really very big diffences between the marriages of yester year and the true partnerships of today. let me offer my definition of a true partnership. it includes monogamy and a long term commitment. where the couple lives and how often they see each other MUST be agreeable to both. someone who stays in a relationship as it is, but feels compelled, for fear of losing the other person, yet really wants something else--would not qualify in my definition as a successful partner.
also, in my definition of a true partnership, would be an agreement about money, who spends what on what, or perhaps does what for who instead of spending outright but contributing to value, and discussion about future sickness, death, et al. in my mind this kind of partnership would probably have sufficient trust to share estate plans, concerns for children, exchange executorships, et al. unless, both truly agreed they wanted their income and assets seperate for whatever reason.
now, why not marriage? well, for some the question is rather, why marriage? and if a marriage, there are all the prenup issues. aside from some people "really" liking their own spaces and a lot of time alone, the reasons to marry today and at a later age, no longer depend upon society, wanting to have children or the man supporting the woman in return for "homemaking". experts actually recommend that unless in unusual circumstances, new marriages succeed moreso if a new space is both acquired and owned by both parties. not many wish to do this, however.
so, you need to sit down and envision what sort of partnership is acceptable to you. write it out in detail. if it must include marriage, write out all the details about kids, prenups, living space, shared assets, responsibilities, etc. then sit down and ask your man what his ideas are about all this. if you are at opposite ends of the spectrum, you need to take some "time out" and think. if you love him, is there an acceptable middle ground, for example you see each other more--but happily and not with resentment or the feeling of one being forced or pressured.
by, the way, i assume he loves you? if no to all of this, you have to bow out. you would have to accept the risk that you may not meet the right man for you, right away. but, if truly not happy with what he is willing to offer and clearly w/o resentment, then i believe if you really do not have your head in the sand about how marriage is less the answer nowadays, you should take this risk.
i personally believe in the spiritual union of marriage. to me, the economic and practical aspects would have to be discussed in great detail. however, i am also flexible and not in a major rush. i'd want my partner to be my best friend first. my major concerns are taking the time to know him, eventual sexuality with monogamy for the duration of the relationship with the goal of it being long term, seeing one another " a lot" ( once it is determined we are a couple) and being clear about time and space that is precious to each one. we would need to truly "enjoy" being together!
i don't want to be excluded from his ultimate "ending" by being told that i am not family. nor the reverse. those would be more the things that would concern me regarding marriage, as well as an agreed upon discussion of the dispersion of our assets, should either of us leave the other one, alone in this world at a later point in time, and with mutual concerns for both our children.
taking time and not rushing to become a couple is also important, however. why rush into the wrong partnerhip? furthermore, i want it to be a good thing. not a responsibility or some grueling task performed just to get some minimal needs met. however, i do think two years is a good point to evaluate. do you really both have the same goals? if not, it's time to go. i stayed almost three years with a man who was monogamous, but life got increasingly difficult for him. he just wanted to stay home and be alone. he struggled to see me, would not get any help for himself. it just wasn't joyful and it started to pull me down heavily. i did not feel loved. he cried when i left. he yelled when i was there for him. it did not start like that at all. but it did end like that. even trying to be friends, he continued to snap at me. it wasn't about me.
sooner or later, we all have to face the demons. life is too short, not to have a loving and caring relationship with someone we think is really hot and who we want the best for. well, that's my opinion. i've been married twice. it's not the marriage, but the quality of the relationship and the love and the time spent, that is the most important. what remains of life, is just too short to waste! | |
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| This is all...
Posted: 2/4/2009 6:40:23 PM | Hi Carolann....read lots of your posts .....some good stuff on this thread for answers.
Want to add....this is someone real, someone you know and someone you love.
To break it off for an unknown possible future person to have more time together....we have both been around here long enough to know the odds on that.
Whether married or not, his committment to you is the same.
I say find out what can be cut out of your schedules! Spend more time together! Spend whole days together! You both must get SOME vacation time. | |
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| Wow...
Posted: 2/4/2009 7:06:10 PM | mylifeasme....I lived, I learned
To understand that (my) relationship deeper, you would have had to live it.
It was difficult to end it.
There are very good post here, Carolann. I wish you the best | |
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| Wow...
Posted: 2/4/2009 7:27:30 PM | If you can't budge on what you want and he won't budge either then you have to move on, hopefully leaving him with love and not resentment (for either of you). If he's not willing to marry again, that's truly his prerogative, and if he's already told you that then you already had your answer and you knew what this was all along.
I've seen plenty of relationships work just fine on a weekend, every other weekend, once or twice a month basis. Lot's of people did their time in a marriage already and just don't want to go "full time" with anyone ever again.
If you had intentions to marry again then you should have already talked with him about that a long, long time ago when things started-out. The stage where the foundation of the relationship is established is when these kinds of things need to be discussed. Otherwise, you've gone off in some other direction he may not know about. Telling your partner 3 years into something is not the right way to do this as he may believe everything is as it should be and as it should stay.
Mike | |
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| Wow...
Posted: 2/4/2009 7:38:32 PM | | SerenityCW, another cut and paste for me... so well thought out, so well expressed, all the considerations that should be made, falling in love, being in love, wanting a person all to one's self, is one thing. The reality of marriage and living with another and commitment is another.... and I can't even imagine it actually happening at this point in my life, but if it's what I want eventually (not so much the marriage, but the committed relationship), it has to not only be imagined, but considered in all it's aspects as you have so finely pointed out. Thank you. | |
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| Wow...
Posted: 2/4/2009 7:49:03 PM |
but kid's activities, work and long distance Exes give us little free time to be a couple. I could be wrong, but seems like you gave him the excuse not to be married or is it your excuse not to be? | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/4/2009 7:49:23 PM | Does he EVER want a permanent commitment? There is a difference in knowing that he ultimately wants to marry you, but the timing isn’t quite right yet vs. waffling and being totally undecided after spending several years together. Ask him where he sees this relationship ultimately headed; when schedules, kids, work, logistics, et al are no longer an issue. If he says you’re definitely The One for him, then start working on putting some order to the chaos in your respective lives, so you can have some type of set future. If he cannot envision your future together at all, then that should tell you all you need to know. I truly hope things work out for you!  | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/4/2009 8:15:05 PM | Carolann so glad you got out of the TV set lol. I am a joker sorry tell him you want him more if I were him I would love it. Then maybe things can start moving your direction. I know it's small but you have to start somewhere communication is important you are a smart girl. I have seen some of your good advice given on these very boards. Go after him if you want him. Good Luck now sink the hook already.  | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/4/2009 9:39:58 PM | I think the answer is different for everyone. However, if you are feeling able to consider the option of ending the relationship because you don't see him frequently enough or because he's not proposed (unlike other posters I am going to assume that as a sensible and intelligent woman, you've talked to him and he knows how you feel and what you want).... If you are feeling like you can make the choice to walk away from him because your relationship with him leaves you feeling lonely frequently, then I would suggest that he's not one you should be marrying in any case.
If you feel as though you can walk away from the man because you're not getting enough time with him, then marrying him, especially marrying him in order to fix the problem of not getting enough time with him looks like a bad idea to me. If you marry, it should be because you can't live without him, not because you want to solve your loneliness problem. Also, as others have pointed out: marriage is not a guaranteed solution to that problem. Even if you would see him every day, simply through the lifestyle arrangement of sharing a home and a bed, there is no guarantee he's going to have any more time for you. At least at the moment when he sees you, your time is his: you're not just part of the house that helps him get his laundry done and meals cooked. What I'm trying to say is that if you saw more of him, it's possible you'd feel even more lonely.
Thing is about any relationship: it's a dynamic created by two: it's based on actually relating to the person you are with: not finding someone to slot into your chosen lifestyle. I think that the guy you are with either needs to be enough on his own merits and you leave past ideals behind and look at what is in front of you right now. Either it is enough or else you recognise that you were looking to replicate a previous dynamic and that you don't value what you actually share with this chap sufficiently to make staying with him the right decision. It's very personal and only you can make the judgement, based on being absolutely honest with yourself. | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/4/2009 9:40:26 PM | Carol..., Sorry for the personal question is it the same man with whom you broke up a couple months ago (after 2 years) because you wanted a marrige commitment and he didn't?
I think he stopped talking to her when she mentioned marriage. (If I remember correctly.)
~OP~ I'm not going to get into the specifics as I remember them ~ but he doesn't sound like a very good investment to me. You deserve better and I think you know it.
~OT~ At what point does one decide if they will marry or marry again? Geez, is that even possible to answer? My mother and step-father were together 24 years and never married. My favorite Aunt had a relationship for 14 years and they never even lived together (chronic dating.) Some people are not marriage minded. If one party is, the other is not ~ someone is going to have to give in and I personally wouldn't want the man in my life to "give in" because I want something he doesn't. That sounds like an ultimatum to me. That can't be a good thing. JMO  | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/4/2009 9:54:26 PM | | I would think, most times, that a couple who has dated for 3 years should know if they want to marry or not, even if the marriage may be in the future. If I was looking to marry, I would not waste my time after that much dating has gone by. | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/4/2009 9:59:13 PM | | Talk to him about how you feel. Maybe he's feeling the same loss/emptiness you are. Best remedy: Communication. | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/4/2009 10:07:50 PM | I've got a suggestion, Carolann
Continue seeing him every two or three weeks (God, that's not very much to call it a relationship) because you do enjoy your time with him. However, make time in your busy schedule to have an alternate social life. In particular, leave yourself open to dating others. | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/4/2009 10:28:04 PM | well, i totally defer to rune. she has a healthy relationship and she helped me get through the end of mine. not sure i could have done it w/o her and a few others. everyone IS different. someone can have something or be a certain way, but that is not the real issue. half of that issue is what "you" want, after you've processed all that through the "reality" screen. the other half is getting to the real issue. many "busy" people are married. so, what is his "real" issue and what is your "real" issue.
i have learned that despite feeling an emty space often inside of me, filling it with sand, is just not the answer! so i just keep it safe, for the time that the filling of it seems to be right --and in the light. | |
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| Again...
Posted: 2/5/2009 4:28:35 AM |
Continue seeing him every two or three weeks (God, that's not very much to call it a relationship) because you do enjoy your time with him. However, make time in your busy schedule to have an alternate social life. In particular, leave yourself open to dating others.
...pretty much all a brother is trying to say.
And let me add here...I don't know if its the new technology with the crazy number of mega pixels in today's digital cameras, the new "healthier" living lifestyle (sigh...I just can't be bothered...I like good food and good drink far too much), some unbeknown additive to the water or simply me getting older and my taste evolving and maturing, but holy cow, some of you ladies are "maturing" real, real well... | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/5/2009 4:41:14 AM | carolann, you are a lovely woman who deserves the best. I would just sit him down and have a heart to heart, tete au tete with him. Just explain to him what YOUR needs are and where you would like to see your relationship with him in a year.
If he doesn't agree and his ideas are completely different, or if he stalls and tries to evade or sidetrack the issue, you know he isn't ready for committment. Maybe you could jar him out of his "comfort zone". After all, if this is truly what you want and you're not sure, what do you have to lose?
Maybe as a last resort you could just honestly tell him, I'll give you three months to make up your mind about our future. This is what I want. If after three months you still haven't made up your mind, then we will split, no hard feelings, have a great life.
You can't continue to muddle along in a stalled relationship unless its what YOU want. | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/5/2009 4:48:06 AM | First of all, I'm sorry about your situation.
Sometimes when we have a lot emotionally invested in a person its hard to see the forest through the trees..
From what I can tell you're having a hard time letting go. Yet at the same time this relationship isn't leaving you very fulfilled emotionally.
I think Lilbooker had some great advice..
Continue seeing him every two or three weeks (God, that's not very much to call it a relationship) because you do enjoy your time with him. However, make time in your busy schedule to have an alternate social life. In particular, leave yourself open to dating others.
You can't force somebody to commit if they don't want to. Maybe its a good idea to start getting out there, and meeting more people. | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/5/2009 4:52:20 AM | that's a tough one, carolann. has the subject ever been broached? because if you're both sitting there saying nothing, he could be thinking something completely different than you are (i.e., maybe he thinks you're not interested in getting married). well, you should discuss it with him if you haven't already.
other than that, my thoughts are that good relationships are *so* hard to find, i would be real reluctant to pull the plug on it just because i wasn't getting enough face time. all relationships have their challenges and are ultimately less than perfect.
on the other hand, i can see how one night ever 2-3 weeks over a couple of years can make a relationship difficult if not completely unworkable. it would seem to me that if you both agree the relationship is worthwhile, then it should not be an insurmountable barrier to somehow rearrange your lives and move things to the next level. i hope you can make that work! | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/5/2009 4:59:52 AM | Carolann, I sympathize with your situation as I waited 8 years for my ex to make that decision. At that point, I decided I either wanted a Husband or I wanted him. I chose him. We stayed together a total of 13 years, so 5 years I made an active choice to stay although I wanted marriage.
At that point, he wanted to marry and I didn't. Life is funny that way.
You must decide if you want Him or marriage, since you presently cannot have both.
Best wishes. | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/5/2009 5:04:24 AM | It is the same man. We both want to be in each others lives and have determined that hardly at all is better than not at all.
Before my Ex moved out of state 6 months ago, my guy and I saw each other 2-3 times a week and spent every other weekend together while the kids were at the other parents homes. Now I have my kids 24/7 , so it is my schedule not his that has begun to give us seperate lives. He is 100% faithful and very understanding of my current dilemna. But I miss the companionship and closeness that is now missing in my life.
It's making me a little stir crazy. We talk daily and do see each other (with my kids) when we can but there can be no intimacy with kids around. | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/5/2009 6:50:44 AM | | What about leaving all the kids together at one house with a babysitter one or two nights and have a date night, either out or at the other person's home? Is that not feasible? If the kids are that young and they don't get along, marriage would only be hell anyway. Combining families is, from what I heard, very difficult on a marriage. | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/5/2009 7:11:09 AM | | one night every 2-3 weeks and a few hours only,nope,wont work,if you are as nice as you seem,i would think there would be plenty of good men out there would find it a pleasure to meet you,send him packing | |
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/5/2009 7:40:33 AM | Carolann, you're smart enough to know doing the right thing is sometimes the most difficult. And here the right thing is what's right for you and your kids. Obviously you have an issue, and sooner or later it will become a monumental issue that starts affecting everyone involved and could actually create health issues. If you don't deal with it now.
It's time for a heart to heart with this guy. Find out where you stand. I'll guarantee you one thing from a mans standpoint......in two years these thoughts have ran through his mind too! He knows what he wants! Ask the question.....and put your mind at ease. But be prepared. | |
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