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Posted: 2/5/2009 7:49:01 AM | How old are the kids? Seems like there should be some way, an afternoon date ? I'm not sure about where you live but they have a mothers day out in some areas. A church where a mother can drop there kids off for the afternoon to shop etc. , also a casino has a child care facility sometimes where they can play while you gamble, or other things LOL. They are checked in and no one but you can take them out of there. Any close friends that could watch them, Grandparents? Just a few thoughts.
I also have been where you are in this relationship, and it got to the point that I didn't care whether I saw him or not. Took a long time believe me, but on mine it was that neither of us could get schedules to match up. I worked second shift he worked weekends and days! Sometimes you have to say enough is enough, I need more! | |
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Posted: 2/5/2009 7:51:31 AM | Carolann, there is no time limit, there is a "heart" limit.
If marriage is what you want and he is not going for it, then it is time to move on even after six months.
But if you have been seeing this guy for 2-3 years and you see him one night every 2-3 weeks, then it is past the time to move on. | |
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ndulj
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Joined: 5/27/2007
Msg: 53 | |
| At what point.............
Posted: 2/5/2009 8:10:47 AM | Carolann you have gotten some great answers.
I'm in a similar position, I have my kids 24/7 and have been in a relationship for almost 2 years. Here is my take.
It really depends on the age of your children. Fortunately my youngest is 15 so I have a bit more freedom than you may. I completely understand the feeling of crawling into a lonely bed everynight even when there is someone you would gladly be sharing it with. I understand wishing that at the end of the day that special someone was there to share the days stories and burdens in person instead of just on the phone. I get it, girl.
You have to decide if you are willing to hold on, until the time comes that you can be together with THIS man or if your need for companionship is important enough to risk kicking him to the curb to begin the hunt again.
I personally made the decision to hang on, but you may check back at the 3 year mark. | |
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Posted: 2/5/2009 12:31:16 PM | if kids 24/7 are your main issue, then you absolutely must get a respite provider. my friend who works full time and has two kids, does the same. in fact, i help her. when i first adopted my teens, we were told if we did not get "respite", our kids would never make it. very few people "qualified" to assist with post trauama foster teens and we actually had each person investigated prior if they were not also foster or adoptive moms. but, i searched high and low and i found help. included in my backup were other moms and some older college students who were very responsible. i also did some barter and had other kids stay with us, during home time.
i made sure that twice a month, we (was married then), got at "least" one full day and one full night of being without the kids. when i divorced and just had the one, my little one (the only remaining at home) agreed to spend one or two weekends per month via airplane at my ex's. if she did not want to go, i would have gotten someone to stay with her here and gone out myself.
once 17, i'd let her have an overnite friend and stay at my SO's for an overnite here and there and we were enough of an "item" by then that he'd come to my place at least once per week. my neighbor would look in on her if she was w/o supervision while waiting for a friend and she called me before bed and in the morning upon waking. she would often have art projects, games and movies all lined up. i made it a job for her (with rules) and paid her to petsit. so she had a sense of responsibility. she knew if she screwed up or invited anyone not approved to the house, she would suffer consequences. but, she was content with the setup and liked the pet sitting money.
other moms i knew, took turns with watching each other's kids. if paying the respite provider takes away from the budget, then stay home and watch a movie "together" wherever you land alone. you can have someone stay at your home and find a cheap motel if necessary and just bring movies and buy a pizza. my kids actually liked it all, as i would leave them with special movies or games with whoever sat for me. i even brought one with me when we took the kids away weekends, so we could have time out. if i was lucky to get a full weekend (two nites and one day or two days and one nite) every activity was prescheduled. if they visited some of my friends at their homes , they were packed and raring to go. they also liked to "evaluate" how other people lived!
there was one woman, highly recommended, who they did not like. however, that week they were especially "good" because they got to appreciate me. so, i found someone else to replace her, but held that card as a threat!
the days before they had "respite", i did something special in the evenings for them and made sure they had quality time with me. they all knew that respite was for "Me" (or us, when married) and that it kept me alive and well for them. it was part of the schedule. they learned later as they got older how to take care of themselves, by watching me! in between i was a tiger mom for them.
not sure of the ages of your kids. the way of doing it varies by age. but, if you don't, you will end up resenting them and that's not a good thing. they say to take the oxygen first on the airplane, so you will "live" to give it to your dependent child. as my kids got older, the best time we ever had was "triple dating" with my girls and their boyfriends. when i broke up with my SO, the kids were sad for me, and had even begun to "tolerate" him. but they learned how i handled it and then when one of them broke up with her boyfriend, they did remain friends and she followed some of my coping strategies. they learn from the good times and the bad times. | |
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Posted: 2/5/2009 12:43:17 PM | Parents are allowed to have lives of their own. Not just their children's lives. Is distance an issue? If so, who gets do move? Are you willing to?
I know that it's complex and maybe I'm over-simplifying.
I just think that, if two people are determined to make it work?
THEY will do whatever is necessary to make it work! No excuses!
The possibility for good or better CAN outweigh the obstacles.
And children bounce back quicker than adults, from life changes.
At what point.............
Shoot...........I say NOW!!!!!! | |
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Posted: 2/6/2009 6:51:33 AM | Imo, you both want the same things and are good people for each other but the timing is still not right.[Schedules,work,kids,distance,etc] not a easy task for either of you.
And it's not the question as some of the usual forum naysayers of saying their," you deserve better" line.
You have better but the logistics and so forth are complicated.
I remember your last thread on this issue and was understanding and believe in being positive,glass half full regardless of life's ups and downs.
Imo, and you will not like what I have to say but to just take some time off in your relationship. Being single is hard but might help you sort things out.
It is recommended that for every 5 years married and then divorce, folks should stay single for 1 year without getting involved. I know,sounds crazy when I first was told that [I was married 20 years] , that now I see there points in getting my house in order, and time needed for things to run smoothly again,emotionally,physically,etc.
And Please keep your glass half full, it's the only way,and I too truly hopes it all works out for you. | |
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Posted: 2/8/2009 10:08:22 AM | CarolAnn
In your 2nd post you state that it is your living arrangements that is causing the change in frequency that you spend time together. Ask yourself this, seeing that it is not the man that is the obstacle to time but rather lack of time to be with each other because your children are under your care 24/7....that wouldn't change if you, for example, broke it off with this man for another. ...right? So your situation wouldn't change with someone else unless you dated and married another man within a few months (which I hope no woman would ever do).
I suppose the bottom basement question is...would this man, after 3 years, move in with you or marry you so that you can have a closer relationship? Only he can answer that. Perhaps it is time to pose the situation to him, what has changed and what HE sees as a solution to it.
Sounds like you love him. I always hope someone loves another back. Pose the situation to him "we are not able to spend time together because my children live with me and I don't want to have a boyfriend spending the night and leaving ..it is not right. What do you think we can do to spend more time together like we used to? I need that. Do you?' Are you happy with how things are or are you less engaged with me? We need to figure this out...I don't want to lose you but I don't want either of not getting our needs met or finding yourself questioning a relationship with me because of it. How is this working for you, do you have an ideas?"
...or something like that =) | |
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Posted: 2/8/2009 12:53:02 PM | | At what point do you move on? When you refuse to accept less than what you desire and deserve. | |
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Posted: 2/8/2009 2:27:11 PM | when any relationship is causing more pain than pleasure
when you're crying more than laughing
English Lass said it the best. | |
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Posted: 2/8/2009 6:04:44 PM | Hi CarolAnn,
So interesting, I just read a book by Janis Spindel called Get Serious about Getting Married. She states that as we age our "marry-ability" (my own made up word-lol) diminishes.
Yes you seem really sweet, and you're very pretty at 45, but we know what time does, don't we. Say you give it another year and nothing is changed... according to the statistics cited in the book, your marry-ability goes down rapidly after 45 for a woman. She has been a successful matchmaker with over 715 marriages to her credit. She states that women over 44 should give a relationship 8 mos at the max to determine if this is going to the alter or not. Any more time and you are wasting time.
According to Jannis, at our ages we can't afford to play around or wait around. We know what we want in a partner - if not - sit down and figure it out. Most of us want someone we share common interests with, have a similar value structure and life goals, honest, someone we can love and trust and who will love and trust us back etc.
Really 2-3 years is rediculous for a grown man. (Poo or get off the potty buck-o) It would be a whole lot different at 18. But at 45 - either decide to join your lives or go look for someone that you want to share your life with. You've got little ones for goodness sake. They and you deserve someone who wants to be and will be part of your lives, not mommy's distant boyfriend.
Why am I so strident about this? Because I find myself in the very same relationship...only for me it's getting to the point that I need to make a decision myself. My friends keep telling me I am meeting his needs but he is not meeting mine - sound familiar? I really love men, but the time has come to throw this fish back, or at least... open yourself up to meeting new fish. That's what I am going to do if nothing happens in a month or so.
You're not getting any younger. Find a good babysitter - there are lots of good men out there - you just have to go look for them. | |
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Posted: 2/8/2009 8:27:08 PM | One night every 2-3 weeks? That's rail-thin night-time spent together. If you guys have been going out for 2-3 years, and have little free time, then something's got to give -- well before you start ringing wedding bells!
You don't solve lonleyness by turning a LTR into a marriage. Then you're more in love with companionship than anything else. If you're in a relationship and lonley, there's a problem to solve there before thinking of marriage, IMO. Spend more time together, even if that's an inconvenient adjustment. Even without sharing a bed every night, you don't have to be lonely. You can spend your days the same way as if you're practically married and still get sick of each other - lol. | |
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Posted: 2/8/2009 10:14:35 PM | If you did get married, your kids will still be there 24/7, so you really need to solve that first.
Honestly, I have my kids 24/7 now, but I go out, I leave them with family, and if as a married couple we gave ourselves the time away from the kids that I give myself for respite, maybe we could have had a better relationship. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2009 9:04:51 AM | My children are too young to leave alone (10 & 14) for more than a couple of hours. My closest family is 4 hours away. I try to arrange sleepovers for my kids on occasion but I am beginning to feel like I shuffle my children around just so we can have sex. It does not feel right to me. I don't consider living together because I believe that it is not the kind of example I wish to set for my children. (Not that I have ever been asked)
Part of me looks at the situation as I should be happy, because any time with him is better then nothing, but being apart from him so much is so hard. I'm in love with him.
We try to involve the kids in group activities, going out to dinner and it has always worked well. I just need more couple time and I cannot handle getting together every other weekend for a 2 hour romp in bed. It goes against everything I believe in and although I love this man deeply, it feels sordid.
I do realize that I don't have time to be with anyone at this stage in my life and I do not want to be with anyone other than him. If I leave it's because the relationship has been reduced to nothing but sex. He is not at fault, it is my lack of a support system or lack of free time.
He has every other weekend and a couple of nights a week where he could meet a woman with far more freedom than I have. If he does not want to commit, then he should be available to look for a woman that expects nothing from him. A woman with kids over 18, or lots of family support that is happy in her own life and has no interest in marriage.
I do not want to be with anyone else and know by leaving my loneliness for him will not change. I do not have time to date.
As an above poster says I've become the cow. Which I suppose means why should a man change a situation where he is already getting what he needs. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2009 9:13:56 AM | | Carolann, what I'm hearing is it's just a matter of time before you will end this because even though you're in love with him and even though you don't want to be with anyone else, the fact that it feels sordid to you, the way things are going, will eventually erode any good feelings you have for him and you won't have any desire to see him. I'm not saying I can tell your future but speaking for my own self, from what I've experienced, is if the feelings of being with a man are more negative than positive, eventually I just don't care anymore, and as many people have stated in these forums, it's better to be alone than be with someone who isn't right for you. I'm sorry you don't have more of a support system but your children are getting older, the oldest one is the age of many babysitters, but you know your kids. The only solution would be babysitters and more time together with your man alone, doing additional things outside the bedroom together. I don't believe marriage is the solution to your dilemma, however, from what I know of his behavior when you did broach the subject in the past. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2009 9:17:01 AM | Carolann, you are only the cow if HE thinks you are the cow and it does not appear that he does.
After careful thought, I think you should ask him to get married. Really. That is what you want so, do it!!!!! Ask him! It is obvious you are sure.
On the above post about marry-ability after 45, when guys act that fast, they are accussed of - acting too fast. Why is it good advice for women to take this tact?
Hey Carolann, if he says yes, we'll miss ya. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2009 9:19:14 AM | """He and I gel very well and I just adore him, but one night every 2-3 weeks for a few hours is not enough. """
I guess the "enough is enough...is not enough" is the same for all relationship issues. If your happiness isn't worth the stress or work, then that's it. Or if the good no longer outweighs the bad.
Me? I was happy with the one nite a week sleepover and once or twice daily phone calls that let me know I was loved and appreciated (until she ended it, waaaaaa). | |
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Posted: 2/9/2009 9:29:08 AM | 3 yrs is long enough to wait. I was in a similar situation with a guy friend as far as dating. H e said he could not make up his mind and he will decide his destiny.
He also said if I was with someone when he decided he would "step in". I say if I am dating someone already he will step out. I am not going to wait all my life to decide if a guy wants to be with me.
Then, you know when we are old and gray, they won't want us. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2009 9:47:09 AM | i've read the whole thread so far, and i think this is what i'm hearing:
- you love this man, and it sounds like he loves you
- your living situation has changed and will presumably be such as it is for quite
a while
- it sounds like if you broke it off with this man you would not be looking to date anyone else
- you want to get married so that you can be together all the time
what we don't know, unless i missed it, is what he is ultimately looking for;
like others have noted; you need to have a serious talk with him about your future as a couple
- if he indicates that he thinks your relationship is marriage material at some future time, and you are willing to wait until he is ready to make that step, then i think you are hurting only yourself by breaking it off
- if he doesn't ever see himself getting married, whether that be to you, or to anyone, then you may indeed be better off cutting the tie before it hurts any more than it already will
best of luck, OP. i also have seen your posts in the past and you seem like a really nice and smart woman. i wish you the very best
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Posted: 2/9/2009 9:54:09 AM |
I say, put HIM on the back burner and use your free time to see other people, squeezing in an occasional "booty call" with him as it suits YOU.
???? what are you talking about? The OP doesn't have any free time. If she did, she would spend it with the man she is in love with. The fact she is starting to feel like it's turning into a mere "booty call", is the source of much of her angst.
~ds~ | |
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Posted: 2/9/2009 10:22:18 AM | Oh Carolann....A few hours every 2-3 weeks?? That is not a relationship. When you add it all up.....all the difficulties, distance, time conrestraints, kids, etc.....sometimes things just can't add up to the answer that is correct. You have put all this time and effort into this.....and its not working. The term "Beating a dead horse" comes to mind. Its not going anywhere. Yes, you love him.....but sometimes that just isn't enough. You have given it your best shot. If you left your heart out of this, and just veiwed the facts......you know you would have the correct answer.
Try to find someone closer in location to you for starters......and then MAKE the TIME to be with him. You can't be putting everything else first, IF you truly want a relationship. Life is harsh and I am sorry if this sounds harsh. But shinning the bright lite on the situation and seeing it for what it is, is the only way you can face the facts. Facts aren't nearly as fun as Fantasy.
Wishing you the best. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2009 11:39:07 AM | Up until about 8 months ago my Ex husband lived a one town over. So for the bulk of our relationship I had every other weekend free and sometimes 2 nights a week to meet up for a glass of wine or a quick meal. This time dilemma, is fairly recent.
Now with my Ex living out of state (sees the kids about every 6 weeks) and my kids schedules (Ballet 3 nights, Baseball team training 3 nights and Sundays) my time for myself is extremely limited. The BF lives 15 minutes away and, has his own kids every other weekend and several nights during the week. I'm finding it not only hard to see him but getting a haircut or an oil change is becoming something I need to plan well in advance too.
I feel guilty for leaving the kids to........well, you know. I feel bad neglecting the cleaning, housework, or telling the kids they cannot have a friend visit so I can drive over there for an hour of rolling around. Trying to maintain any kind of a relationship has become a source of stress for me.
Up until the Ex left town, we were acting in every way like a couple and spent plenty of time together. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2009 11:53:54 AM | | Well how old are your kids? Are they old enough that you could leave them alone for a while? You guys could go out or camping or something alone. | |
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Posted: 2/9/2009 12:17:02 PM | the OP DID expalin why the circumstances changed after a few posters had responded.......i think some posters after the OP's second post did not read that......
ok, folks, her circumstances changed, it is not that he lives too far away......her kids are always with her, and are at an age where they need her a lot; puts a damper on her ENTIRE life, and she barely has time to pee nevermind try and fit in time with her man.......do we all have that straight now before we start suggesting she doesn't "really" want an ltr????
sorry, but it annoys me when people don't read everything the OP says before they "speak"
i will reiterate what i said before, OP; your guy needs to be straight with you about where he sees this going.....you seem to desire the 24/7/marriage route.....you need to find out if he feels the same way.....perhaps not expecting a wedding this weekend, but whether he sees that in your future as a couple
if no, it's time to end it, as your needs and his are too much at odds....clearly, what you do have is no longer enough for you; if he doesn't feel the same way, then it may indeed be time
if he DOES see marriage potential, i think you then need to really be sure for yourself also, OP. i would be concerned about whether you would still want to get married if your circumstances were as they were before, ie. if you could still see him e/o weekend and some eves during the week, would you still be this set on marriage??
jmho, and again, best of luck sweetie
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| At what point.............
Posted: 2/9/2009 12:50:43 PM | Carolann, first let me say that I am sorry you are in this position. However, you really need to listen to yourself. Please bear with me as this is going to take some reading time. I'm sorry for presenting this point by point, but sometimes that is what it takes to make someone see clearly through the hazy eyesight of love.
1. You have children, ages 10 and 14, who are too young to leave alone more than 2 hours at a time (in your own words), BUT your family is 4 hours away. Why not find a babysitter? Do you believe your family members are the only ones qualified for this job? I was babysitting for others at the age of 14! There simply must be more alternatives here (see previous response by serenityCW).
2. Group activities have worked out well, BUT you want more couple time. What kind of "couple time" would you get if you were married??? Would the couple time just be after lights out? You'd still need to find a babysitter if you wanted more in your relationship than simply "more time for sex."
3. The two of you only have time for a 2-hour romp in bed every 2-3 weeks, BUT this makes you feel sordid. Why are you doing it if it makes you feel that way???
4. You schedule sleep-overs for the children, BUT it makes you feel like you're "shuffling" them around. Why do you feel that way? Don't you honestly think you deserve a life outside of taking care of them???? (Trust me, this would cause problems if you were married and put your husband third or fourth on your list - be honest and think about that one!) And, please, I do not want to offend you or any other mothers out there. The age-old question still remains: Does the couple come first, or do the children come first?
5. You want more togetherness, BUT your moral code (the example you wish to present) prohibits a "living together" lifestyle. Somehow, however, it's OK in the "example you're presenting" to have the 2-hour romp in bed outside of marriage! And, trust me, one of these days your children will be smart enough to realize what's going on and see the holes in your moral code. So-o-o-o, exactly what are you trying to teach them?
6. He has more time to date, BUT you don't. Availability to date is apparently YOUR problem, not his.
7. You want to get married, BUT he apparently doesn't (or he would have asked you by now).
Please, Carolann, face the facts (for your own good). Your children are part of your life and come with the "package" that is you. For every issue that is facing you and your SO, you're the one throwing up all the excuses and roadblocks and your only solution to any of them is marriage. That in itself means that "marriage" is what you want....period. IMO, it doesn't sound like you are trying very hard to make this work within the framework of your combined circumstances or are not patient enough to wait until your children are grown (or at least older) and no longer an issue. There just seems to be too many BUTs!!!! You may love him, but he simply doesn't want to be responsible for raising your children. To me that's the bottom line!
P.S. I apologize if this sounded harsh; it wasn't meant to be. As a dear friend of mine says, "You're either in, or you're out!" If he's not "in" because of your children or a commitment problem, then he's "out." If you're not "in" because you have too many issues you're not willing to compromise on, then you're "out." On the other hand, you've already invested 2-3 years in this relationship. In 2 more years, your children will be 12 and 16. Surely that will afford you more opportunity to spend with him. If you honestly believe you don't want to be with anyone else, then suck it up and be patient. Otherwise, you're "out." You should, however, make this decision with the knowledge that it might not be your children who are the problem, rather his unwillingness to commit. If so, you've just wasted another 2 years of your life!!!!!! | |
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Posted: 2/9/2009 1:20:59 PM | Not harsh at all. I prefer straight talk over the flowery "It will be ok" from a well meaning person.
First of all I do not nor have ever had a man in by room when my children are home with me. If they are at an activity or visiting a friends home I will arrange to see him during that time, not in my home.
My moral code or whatever you want to call it is my own. Everyone's is different. I do not flaunt my sex life or lack of it in front of children.
The root of the problem is, I have a hard time dealing with the fact that this is how my life could be for another 8 years or until my youngest leaves for college. I want a partner in that life 24/7 not once every few weeks. So your belief is I either change my ideals, get used to being someone's FB or be alone. | |
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