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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/26/2009 4:12:38 PM |
It's pointless to argue about it anyway. There seems to be 2 versions of history out there. One that says Reagan got of out of the recession and one that says he didn't.
Look, I didn't start this. YOU said that Carter's policies are causing problems now. You notedly didn't actually name any of those policies - just threw it out there and said Reagan saved the economy.
I showed specific policies of Reagan's and showed where they demonstrably hurt the economy. Reagan didn't show deficits don't matter - he just showed that if you get lucky you can leave it to those who follow you. Bush 41 and Clinton had to clean up the mess. Then Bush 43 screwed it up again. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/26/2009 8:26:01 PM | Reagan did "some" people some good~ short term, with his economic policies.
For every one that enjoyed the good ~ there was two that didn't.
Long term ~ most of us lost ground as the top 5% made tremendous gain.
The tax payer gets the burden of cleanup after big business. ~ Tax payers get the burden of inter structure and maintence . While big business enjoy it. We build it so they will come, they are offered tax breaks so they will come and then they outsource. ~ Who'ed thunk it?
The only huge civil project that I am aware of in the last 30 years was in "Big Dig" in Boston. ~ No canals, dams or big water projects, ~ We 've been sitting on our hand as the rest of the developing world has tackled some ambitious civil projects.
American has quit building for it's people. ~ It builds smart bombs a million dollars a copy though. It builds the best advanced aircraft in the world. Yet few civil project of grand proportion. NASA, we take great pride in ~ sure ~ But we are huge nation ~ we need more! ~ We can;t just be pride of NASA and stop building.
People that speak of joy and gloom in the same sentence confuse me. ~ They speak of their children and children's children and debit ~ yet think little of the nation we leave them. ~ Torn-down and worn -out, refusing to build, advance and grow into the 21 century. ~ Little regard to air and water issues if big business had their way. ~ Refusing to advance to the next generation of fuels ~ wanting to drill and rob our piggy bank our ace in the hole, Anwr. ~ That's rain day reserves ~ for now this nation runs on fossil fuels, it seems that some think the rainy day is "today" ~ So if we tap that ~ then what? ~ that will make this generation happy? ~~ So which generation do we please? ~ I'm confused ~ One minute it's all me me me and the next it's our children that concern us and we do them an injustice by spentding money on the nations "Main Street"
So make up your mind ~ ~ You can't have it both ways when ever it pleases you. These people need to find a better argument ~ because that one fails to ring true or make any sense.
I remember Ross and his pie charts ~ I'm sure all of you do. ~ The National Debit was a huge campaign issue ~ what to do ~ what to do? ~ It was horrorible! ~ outrageous debt~ ~ It was everyone's concern, we all felt somewhat helpless, wring in our hand ~ I know I didn't spend all this money ~ I never even seen it ~ but I worried about it anyway.
Since that time ~ America has balanced the budget and shown a surplus. ~ Impossible ?
No, not at all ~ we worked our way out of it! ~ We generated growth and income. ~
And that's what we shall do again. ~ But we need to understand ~ there is no strong top if there is no strong bottom. At the moment, the bottom has been drained dry by borrowing, counting on our tomorrow's being better ~ but better never came.
We can't all work for the government, build airplane or state of the art vessels or rail guns ( if you've not heard of such google it, it's amazing) Somebody got to carry out the trash, grow food, unstop commodes , fix cars, pour concrete and drive trucks.
Dance | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/26/2009 8:33:30 PM |
itechman42 on 2/5/2009 12  51 PM Subject: How do you really feel about this large stimulus package? Message: I nominate FireKnight for Economic Policy Czar. Nicely done!
I second that nomination,
We need to send him to the Hill!
Dance | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/27/2009 12:24:46 AM | here is how i feel about this package:
Obama signed the largest spending bill, the "Stimulus" Package, in the history of the planet in his first 100 days in office without a single GOP House vote.
Obama and democrats pushed and passed the largest budget in history without a single GOP House or Senate vote.
Obama's budget more than doubles the national debt held by the public, and adds more to the debt than all previous presidents -- from George Washington to George W. Bush -- combined.
Obama managed to spend more than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.
Obama and democrats have already saddled America's children and grand children with massive debt before they're even born! Not that this bothers them.
Obama is on track to spend more money than any person in the history of Earth.
The US debt is so large that America couldn't qualify to join the EU if it wanted to.
Obama expects the deficit level to be 12% of GDP this year larger than Great Britain's record of 10% of GDP.
yep. that pretty much sums it up.
lar | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/27/2009 9:26:49 AM |
Obama signed the largest spending bill, the "Stimulus" Package, in the history of the planet in his first 100 days in office without a single GOP House vote.
not completly true , there were three
Obama managed to spend more than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. I certainly hope so!
Obama is on track to spend more money than any person in the history of Earth. I hope so!
Obama and democrats have already saddled America's children and grand children with massive debt before they're even born! Not that this bothers them. if it's spent well , you are correct. If your are truly concerned about future children, I question your priorities and blind to the generation of wealth ~ thinking it's impossible. Which you are correct if we continue down this same 30 year path.
So you enjoy living in the larges and most powerful nation that ever exited yet you wish to spend less money?
Obama's administration has a big job on their hands, I 'm not one to send a man out with a peach tree trig to fight off a bear or invade another sovereign nation with a meer 20 thousand mechanized infantry men, stretched supply lines with plans to secure a lock-down situation. ~
History tells us what the numbers should be and the probable outcomes. Top Brass, saying , No! No! No ! ~ You don't plant a 100 dollar tree in a 3 dollar hole!
Ever new year, the government budget gets larger ~ more people and more activity. ~
That the nation finds it's self in such a bad way in the private sector is due to bad policies and poor leadership that has favored only the top earner (and their butt boys) of the nation. ~ It was a long 30 years road we've came. ~ All those seemingly good ideas of the Reagan era coupled with some Phill Gramm good ideas protracted out over time, followed by a 8 years of a failed administration policy both foreign and domestic.
The price tag for recovery from all of these "good idea" is high! ~~ In fact, ~ might not ever be possible with what little understanding or help being offered by many.
It could easy be ~ America had reached her zenith, and from here lies only decay. ~ We show signs of internal rot out now as serious basic issues are failed to be address.
There was a time, American's could say. ~" Don't worry and the horse, just load the wagon" ~ But that was at a time when American had direction, focus and leadership that served it's best interest and not the interest of a few.
Dance | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/27/2009 9:42:20 AM | dance~
actually it is true. based on wsj, financial times, nyt, etc. the obama admin is going to spend more money then ALL previous presidents in us history combined. as a matter of fact, per the wsj, even if you took every penny that was earned by people who made 250k or more it would not even come close to covering all this spending. so, guess what that means? that means either they borrow more money from the chinese, print more money, or tax everybody. i am sure they will get around to all three before too long.
regarding "recovery," the reason the economy tanked is because of stupid gov meddling with entities like freddie and fannie - both of which were not subject to normal market forces and instead were propped up by gov., hence the name, "government sponsored entities." there is also the problem of mark to mkt accout., the repeal of glass steigel, etc. people obviously buying too much house then they could afford, etc.
this spendathon bill is a joke. it's so laden with pork that will do nothing to support any stimulus of any kind. how much stimulus have we injected into the system already,,, that hasn't worked thus far, so why continue to throw good money after bad. taking money out of the private sector and putting into the public sector is not going to create jobs. obama is doing nothing but increasing our liabilities.
lar | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/27/2009 6:26:39 PM | I suppose it depends on what you wish to call "pork" ~
"pork" can be anything to anyone ~ What you call good, someone else is out there calling it bad.
Palin was railed about some "Bridge to No Where" ~ I maintain there is no such thing as a bridges to no where, for no where becomes somewhere and now we have a way of getting there ~~ is that not so? ~ Palin was railed as accepting pork, while railing against pork. ~ So go figure? I understand the bridge was never built yet the "pork" was delivered as I understand it. ~ which I figure went somewhere worthy America's attention and not into some feasibility study conducted by a distant relative.
Yet some still considered it "pork" directed to a particular area of the country that seen need.
I ask you , whats wrong with that? if this doling out of "pork" is done within the frame work of fair business practices and on the table for all to see?
Perhaps we need to find another way of directing funds to project instead of block voting , requiring a majority up or down vote.
I served as Foreman of the Grand Jury for 3 months in my county. ~ What I found was the number of cases presented each day required block voting in order to keep up.
We've review each case , questions raised, answered and discussed. ~ Calling a vote on 15 cases at once. ~ Each juror, having the power to remove any case from the block vote. ~ The then vote rendered on a block.
The cases pulled from the block, would be reviewed, discussed and then voted on separately. ~
But however, it's done ~ money must be dispensed ~ that one of the functions ~ correct? ~ I don't like the idea of monies being sneaked under the radar either. ~ That what I see as bad pork, when it goes to things to serve a narrow few with money being funneled into some fat cats pocket.
So what is it that you wish to call "Pork"? It takes bright people to stay on top of all of this ~ They need a staff of good people to back them up. ~ It more then any one person can do due to the volume of business at hand.
Dance | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/27/2009 11:13:12 PM |
But however, it's done ~ money must be dispensed ~ that one of the functions ~ correct?
I'd quote more, but this part speaks to me personally, so I'm just going to rant from here for a moment (Great post all the way around, btw!!) 
Yes, the monies need dispensed and they need to be dispensed soon, with clarity, forethought and a good deal of restriction by whomever is the governing body that will over-see said funds. An interesting thing happened here in Idaho in the past week. We have a Governor who is throwing a temper tantrum. He's VETOED 42 bills in the past 6 days. Our House/Senate are still in session at $30,000 per day (their term is usually over early April), while he's admitted that he's not going to even bother reading ONE bill that is passed and placed on his desk ~ he's going to VETO them all, until our legislators do what he wishes. He wants a gas-tax hike. Our House/Senate both killed the bill, so he's going to MAKE them pass it. If not? They will remain in session forever. Keep in mind, our stimulus monies are all part of these bills that keep getting VETOED, which means that our unemployment benefits, food stamp monies, family assistance monies, health care reforms, aid to cystic fibrosis patients (all 63 of them), Department of Transportation monies, education has been cut to the bone including but not limited to Boise State University putting 850 seasoned employees on notice that they may have jobs, but no new contracts. All of this because we have a pouting politician who has openly stated that he runs the show and it will be ran his way or no way. He's in charge damn it ~ he knows all and he's not about listen to those who elected him. That is NOT how this is supposed to work. This is exactly why there needs to be transparency. BUT, this is how it is when NO one does anything to make someone accountable. This is exactly what the new administration is trying to get a hold on. And thankfully so. It's about time there was accountability and transparency. As for the monies themselves? What on earth is the next best answer? I don't think there is one. It's either this or welcome back the dust-bowl days. Not a very good idea in my opinion.  | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/29/2009 4:25:44 AM | dance~
while i appreciate the "one man's pork is another man's paved road" approach, there is in fact a time and place for spending and a time and place for tightening the belt. niether you nor i could spend our way into prosperity, and if we managed our money the way the fed gov manages thiers (ours) we'd be bankrupt within no time.
surely you will not support quadrupling the budget and increasing future LIABILITIES when what we need to be doing is decreasing liabilities? what i mean is that we are not in a position to be putting things into the budget that must be funded ad infinitum. this whole job creation shell game is just one example. the gov is not creating self sustaining jobs. they are creating MORE liabilties. these so-called "jobs" do not produce income, they take income to be propt up. they are fake jobs. by expaning the number of people that will be on the gov payroll, as opposed to allowing the private sector to create new jobs, the fed is only growing the size of gov and increasing future liabilities. this is stupid. this is taking money out of the private sector and wasting it.
i am also sure you would agree that giving money to wool research, or other such malarky in an economic down turn is not the time or place. the US is about to spend more money then both the iraq war and the afghan war combined. it is about to increase the debt into the trillions. it is about to spend more money then all previous adminstrations of the US from 1789 to present combined!
here is some of the spending reported by the new york times article from feb 26, 2009:
8% increase over last year for numerous federal agencies
$475,000 to new york for expanding the Italian American Museum in little italy
$4.5 million for new park development in manhattan
$950,000 to convert a railroad bridge over the hudson into a walkway in poughkeepsie
the taxpayers for common sense report that there were over 8, 570 earmarks in the bill
$1.7 million will go for swine odor and manure control management research (this isn't in D.C., i know you were thinking this was for capital hill)
funding for mosquito control in florida
$200,000 for tattoo removal violence outreach in los angeles
it was also reported in this article that obama is planning a $634 billion over the next ten years for health care reform - that figure is projected to be a gross underestimate.
and if you look back at all the so-called stimulus that has been tried before under bush and now obama - did it work? uh, no. what we need is more production not a bunch of spending. this spendathon is a complete joke and will do nothing but do great damage to the nation. defcit spending IS wealth confiscation. the dollar may end up being devalued. we will either print more money or have to borrow more from the chinese. and the worst of it? it's all completely unneccesary.
lar | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/29/2009 8:08:52 AM | dance~
while i appreciate the "one man's pork is another man's paved road" approach, there is in fact a time and place for spending and a time and place for tightening the belt. niether you nor i could spend our way into prosperity, and if we managed our money the way the fed gov manages thiers (ours) we'd be bankrupt within no time.
Complete agreement ~ but nor can we save ourselves into prosperity. Money is a tool, like a shovel, or a hammer, they of little value unless they are used. Sometimes just the threat of using either one of these tools effect change and response.
If I threaten to sue you in court, ~ I'm threating to spend some money and you will react
If I dig a hole to pour concrete, I need a shovel and I plan to buy concrete.
If I plan to use a hammer, I plan to make changes ~ these change will require spending money.
Sitting on a pile of money is like a dragon sitting on it's horde. ~ It's comfortable and he can just sit there at peace with the world.
Well we have been pushed well beyond our comfort zone no doubt.
Some would like to continue like nothings never happened, saying it is unnecessary.
Other's say this is impossible to do and serve the whole nation.
Bush's stimilus package was indeed a joke, as was the defered tax breaks to top wage earners as Federal borrowing increased to make up the difference. The wealthy did not invest more or hire more, they lined their nest and enlarged their horde pile.
We now have people paying "NO" taxes ~ how can they? ~ they are not working! and working as a "greeter" at Walmart or working at Burger King is not the answer.
here is some of the spending reported by the new york times article from feb 26, 2009:
8% increase over last year for numerous federal agencies
$475,000 to new york for expanding the Italian American Museum in little italy
$4.5 million for new park development in manhattan
$950,000 to convert a railroad bridge over the hudson into a walkway in poughkeepsie
the taxpayers for common sense report that there were over 8, 570 earmarks in the bill
$1.7 million will go for swine odor and manure control management research (this isn't in D.C., i know you were thinking this was for capital hill)
funding for mosquito control in florida
$200,000 for tattoo removal violence outreach in los angeles
Thanks for digging this up! I appericate your efforts ~ The only one I take exception to is the $200,000 in tattoo removal program. ~ I agree with you, that's totally absurd.
The parks? ~ I don't have a problem with that, ~ like garfitti abatement , You got to spend it as annoying as it is.
mosquito's in Florida? ~ sure! you bet
pig smell? sure!
8,750 earmarks ~ ? ~ I need an item?
8% increase in budget of federal agencies? ~ I think Obama's asked them to shave some just last week.
I really don't think you see the need for all of this spending ~ You've convinced me of that. ~ Did you see any need to invade Iraq? Did you see any need to offer top wage earners Tax discounts for many years and we fought a war on three fronts (counting HLS and all it's activities)?
We could do nothing ~ I suppose and see what happens.
we could choice to not address climate change ~ saying it's just a natural cycle ~ maybe it is ~ The ice age was a natural cycle, Krakatoa was a natural event, this latest tusumi was a nature event.
Too big of a problem to address? Hmm ~ What are you doing this minute? anything important? ~ What is your neighbor doing? ~~
I'm of the opinion everybody needs to be busy doing something until you are so old or sick you get can't.
Let us all come together with some focus and ambition and get busy preparing our nation for the 21 Century. I refuse to sit on the sideline and watch bad things happen.
Wherever we find work that needs to be done. It takes a lot of small things to ever make big things. Today we find stagnantion from past failed administrations, void of leadership ~ we are behind ~ let's catch up if we wish to still be seen as leaders of the "free world"
Dance | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/29/2009 9:31:48 AM | Irony is killing the GOP.
Ranting and raving about spending is biting them on the BUTT...
They held up the appointment of Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius because she is not moral enough? Flew through after 100 days?
Cut money from stimulus money for pandemic preparedness...
Cry about Volcano monitoring equipment...
$1.7 million will go for swine odor and manure control management research (this isn't in D.C., i know you were thinking this was for capital hill)
Where the he!! do you think this outbreak started?
A Corp Hog (Swine) feed lot, (moved to Mexico to avoid US regulations)....this one lot produces more waste than New York City..........
The $1.7 million should be paid by Corp feed lots............ That will never happen. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/29/2009 7:48:57 PM | Jack~
the swine flu started in a little pueblo near the vera cruz region of mexico. it did not, i can assure you, start on an iowan pig farm. having lived in iowa for a considerable length of time, and actually owning farm land in iowa, i can assure you that living conditions are such that humans do not wallow in the manure of the pig pen. agricultural procedures in the US are modern by comparison. besides, the smell of swine fecal matter does not cause disease. it's the fecal matter itself.
are you living in the dark ages or something? you know, when people used to think that "vapors" caused disease? i suppose you'll be advocating blood letting next.
but you really are missing the point. the issue here is that spending money on how pig farms stink up the place has nothing to do with stimulating the economy. it's pork barrel spending of the worst kind.
here is the latest article by the Associated Press... they think Obama's full of it too...
Apr 29, 9:23 PM EDT
FACT CHECK: Obama disowns deficit he helped shape
By CALVIN WOODWARD
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) -- "That wasn't me," President Barack Obama said on his 100th day in office, disclaiming responsibility for the huge budget deficit waiting for him on Day One.
It actually was partly him - and the other Democrats controlling Congress the previous two years - who shaped the latest in a string of precipitously out-of-balance budgets.
And as a presidential candidate and president-elect, he backed the twilight Bush-era stimulus plan that made the deficit deeper, all before he took over and promoted spending plans that have made it much deeper still.
Obama met citizens at an Arnold, Mo., high school Wednesday in advance of his prime-time news conference. Both forums were a platform to review his progress at the 100-day mark and look ahead.
At various times, he brought an air of certainty to ambitions that are far from cast in stone.
His assertion that his proposed budget "will cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term" is an eyeball-roller among many economists, given the uncharted terrain of trillion-dollar deficits and economic calamity that the government is negotiating.
He promised vast savings from increased spending on preventive health care in the face of doubts that such an effort, however laudable it might be for public welfare, can pay for itself, let alone yield huge savings.
A look at some of his claims Wednesday:
OBAMA: "We began by passing a Recovery Act that has already saved or created over 150,000 jobs." - from news conference.
THE FACTS: This assertion is flawed on several levels. For starters, the U.S. has lost more than 1.2 million jobs since Obama took office, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Even if Obama's stimulus bill saved or created as many jobs as he says, that number is dwarfed by the number of recent job losses.
But Obama's number is murky, at best. The White House has not yet announced how it intends to count jobs created by the stimulus bill. Obama's number is based on a job-counting formula that his economists have developed but have not made public. Until that formula is announced - probably in the coming week or so - there's no way to assess its accuracy.
Whatever the formula, economists who study job creation say it will require some creative math. That's because Obama has lumped "jobs saved" in with "jobs created." Even economists for organizations that stand to benefit from the stimulus concede it probably is impossible to estimate saved jobs because that would require calculating a hypothetical: how many people would have lost their jobs without the stimulus.
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OBAMA: "We must lay a new foundation for growth, a foundation that will strengthen our economy and help us compete in the 21st century. And that's exactly what this budget begins to do. It contains new investments in education that will equip our workers with the right skills and training; new investments in renewable energy that will create millions of jobs and new industries; new investments in health care that will cut costs for families and businesses; and new savings that will bring down our deficit." - news conference.
THE FACTS: While the budget does set a roadmap for achieving the president's goals, it says nothing about how to pay for his health plan, expected to cost more than $1 trillion over the next 10 years. And while the deficit, under the plan, would drop to $523 billion in 2014, it achieves it with unrealistic assumptions, such as projections that spending in Iraq and Afghanistan will amount to only $50 billion a year.
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OBAMA: "Number one, we inherited a $1.3 trillion deficit. ... That wasn't me. Number two, there is almost uniform consensus among economists that in the middle of the biggest crisis, financial crisis, since the Great Depression, we had to take extraordinary steps. So you've got a lot of Republican economists who agree that we had to do a stimulus package and we had to do something about the banks. Those are one-time charges, and they're big, and they'll make our deficits go up over the next two years." - in Missouri.
THE FACTS:
Congress, under Democratic control in 2007 and 2008, controlled the purse strings that led to the deficit Obama inherited. A Republican president, George W. Bush, had a role, too: He signed the legislation.
Obama supported the emergency bailout package in Bush's final months - a package Democratic leaders wanted to make bigger.
To be sure, Obama opposed the Iraq war, a drain on federal coffers for six years before he became president. But with one major exception, he voted in support of Iraq war spending.
The economy has worsened under Obama, though from forces surely in play before he became president, and he can credibly claim to have inherited a grim situation.
Still, his response to the crisis goes well beyond "one-time charges."
He's persuaded Congress to expand children's health insurance, education spending, health information technology and more. He's moving ahead on a variety of big-ticket items on health care, the environment, energy and transportation that, if achieved, will be more enduring than bank bailouts and aid for homeowners.
The nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimated his policy proposals would add a net $428 billion to the deficit over four years, even accounting for his spending reduction goals. Now, the deficit is nearly quadrupling to $1.75 trillion.
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OBAMA: "I think one basic principle that we know is that the more we do on the (disease) prevention side, the more we can obtain serious savings down the road. ... If we're making those investments, we will save huge amounts of money in the long term." - in Missouri.
THE FACTS: It sounds believable that preventing illness should be cheaper than treating it, and indeed that's the case with steps like preventing smoking and improving diets and exercise. But during the 2008 campaign, when Obama and other presidential candidates were touting a focus on preventive care, the New England Journal of Medicine cautioned that "sweeping statements about the cost-saving potential of prevention, however, are overreaching." It said that "although some preventive measures do save money, the vast majority reviewed in the health economics literature do not."
And a study released in December by the Congressional Budget Office found that increasing preventive care "could improve people's health but would probably generate either modest reductions in the overall costs of health care or increases in such spending within a 10-year budgetary time frame."
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OBAMA: "You could cut (Social Security) benefits. You could raise the tax on everybody so everybody's payroll tax goes up a little bit. Or you can do what I think is probably the best solution, which is you can raise the cap on the payroll tax." - in Missouri.
THE FACTS: Obama's proposal would reduce the Social Security trust fund's deficit by less than half, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.
That means he would still have to cut benefits, raise the payroll tax rate, raise the retirement age or some combination to deal with the program's long-term imbalance.
Workers currently pay 6.2 percent and their employers pay an equal rate - for a total of 12.4 percent - on annual wages of up to $106,800, after which no more payroll tax is collected.
Obama wants workers making more than $250,000 to pay payroll tax on their income over that amount. That would still protect workers making under $250,000 from an additional burden. But it would raise much less money than removing the cap completely.
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OBAMA: "My hope is that working in a bipartisan fashion we are going to be able to get a health care reform bill on my desk before the end of the year that we'll start seeing in the kinds of investments that will make everybody healthier."
THE FACTS: Obama has indeed expressed hope for a health care plan that has support from Democrats and Republicans. But his Democratic allies in Congress have just made that harder. The budget plan written by the Democrats gives them the option of denying Republicans the normal right to block health care with a Senate filibuster. The filibuster tactic requires 60 votes to overcome, making it the GOP's main weapon to ensure a bipartisan outcome. The rules set by the budget mean that majority Democrats could potentially pass health care legislation without any Republican votes, sacrificing bipartisanship to achieve their goals.
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Associated Press writers Matt Apuzzo, Kevin Freking and Jim Kuhnhenn contributed to this report.
© 2009 The Associated Press
http://rpc.blogrolling.com/redirect.php?r=481bf002a9ae5b225ded710b8102cd9a&url=http%3A%2F%2Finstapundit.com%2F
lar | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/29/2009 7:59:11 PM | dance,
don't try to divert the discussion from the spendathon to justifications on iraq. or discussoins about tsunamis. those are completely different topics that belong on another thread. let's focus here.
also, this spending was intended to stimulate the economy. THAT should be our priority, period. tattoo removal and landscaping parks in manhattan are not going to stimulate the economy.
obama's spending "cut," is a drop in the bucket. it's called being pound foolish and penny poor. what was his "cut" ? wasn't it around 100 million? you do realize that we are in the trillions here with obama's budget, dont you?
lar | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/29/2009 8:27:56 PM |
the swine flu started in a little pueblo near the vera cruz region of mexico. it did not, i can assure you, start on an iowan pig farm. having lived in iowa for a considerable length of time, and actually owning farm land in iowa, i can assure you that living conditions are such that humans do not wallow in the manure of the pig pen. agricultural procedures in the US are modern by comparison. besides, the smell of swine fecal matter does not cause disease. it's the fecal matter itself.
are you living in the dark ages or something? you know, when people used to think that "vapors" caused disease? i suppose you'll be advocating blood letting next.
So if I sneeze and you enhale it what matter of particle would you call that? There are reasons that blood letting may help
a- polycythemia vera
b-type 2 diabetes.
Dark ages anyone? | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/29/2009 9:38:41 PM | Smithfield operates massive hog-raising operations Perote, Mexico, in the state of Vera Cruz, where the outbreak originated. The operations, grouped under a Smithfield subsidiary called Granjas Carroll, raise 950,000 hogs per year, according to the company Web site.
............ Massive doses of antibiotics and no standard for the handleing of waste ...
Hogs produce 6 times the waste of a human.........
How many tons of antibiotics could be used on 950,000 hogs?
Gotta be safe....
Whats the connection of Pork Industry with flesh-eating bacteria
( Necrotizing fasciitis) and MRSA???? | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/30/2009 3:38:53 AM | I check your sources, assoc. press writers Mat Apuzzo, Kevin Freking and Jim Kuhnhenn have a gift for writing the news and worthy consideration.
But this Calvin Woodward piece, your main thrust of arguement, is no more the a Rupert Murdoch hatchet man. ~ If you read much of his material, it's no wonder that you are excited, he's of the same caliber a news person as Glen Beck with Fox.
I failed to be able to pull up the link that you offered. Tried with both Yahoo & Google
Thanks for sharing. ~
We 'll just have to disagree on how to get out of this deep hole we've dug for ourselves, I say 10o men and 5 shovels will take too long.
And owing people money is not always a bad thing. People that have owed me money have made me go out of my way to please them. ~ I accommindate them. ~ Wanting to take off them head, but finding it worthless. ~ We are vested, more then I care for but to stop swimming half way across the river is not an option. You go with the current and favor a landing down river.
To say to me , don't change the subject dance, ~ Tells me you still are not with me, You claims of pork spending, ~ I speak of what this pork address long term ~ while you speak of long term indebtedness. ~
So what gives here, ~ you can speak of long term and I can't speak of long term solutions without changing the subject?
Now now can that work?
Dance | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/30/2009 11:28:19 PM | dance~
i said don't dodge the q because you were going off topic - iraq, etc.
this was an AP article.
i am not sure what you are talking about regarding "and people owing money is not always a bad thing..."
i think being born into debt is a bad thing. i think wasting tax payers' money is a bad thing. i think telling people you are going to use it to "stimulate" the economy then spending it on wool research (another stupid expenditure), or researching the smells that eminate from pig dung is not stimulating the economy.
here is the CBO report. you may want to note that little part about the increase in fed spending means a 30% decrease in money for private investment - which means that people won't be opening new businesses WHICH HIRE PEOPLE.
warning it's kind of long...
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/100xx/doc10008/03-02-Macro_Effects_of_ARRA.pdf | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 4/30/2009 11:38:27 PM | earlz~
when you inhale and someone sneezes there is a droplet. yes, sometimes disease is spread this way. drop lets are not "air born" for that long because they are too heavy. but this is all medical stuff and i am not sure what it has to do with the spendathon.
here ya go...
"What is transmission by droplet contact?
Some diseases can be transferred by infected droplets contacting surfaces of the eye, nose, or mouth. This is referred to as droplet contact transmission. Droplets containing microorganisms can be generated when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks. Droplets can also be generated during certain medical procedures, such as bronchoscopy. Droplets are too large to be airborne for long periods of time, and quickly settle out of air.
Droplet transmission can be reduced with the use of personal protective barriers, such as face masks and goggles. Measles and SARS are examples of diseases capable of droplet contact transmission"
http://microbiology.mtsinai.on.ca/faq/transmission.shtml#four
now regarding the spend a thon - a trillion in new taxes, and it should be noted that the WSj already pointed out that based on the IRS' own numbers that he could take every penny from every single person who made more then 250k a year and it would not even come close to covering all of his proposed spending. i posted the WSj article previously.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/obamas-budget-a.html | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/1/2009 8:16:28 AM | I was was Not For the first bailout the one that took place in the final days of the last administration when the GOP was running things. I thought it just plain Wrong, a bad idea regardless how inconvenient it was to however many people it would adversly affect.
I was over ruled and out numbered at every turn. ~ So if being "fair" don't mean anything anymore , I say spread the misery ! and be consistent about it.
I'm not a smart enough man to run the whole nation, ~ but I'm smart enough to know when I'm being screwed around. ~ and I've been screwed around for many years attempting to conform and comply with laws and regulations put in place by my government while my government permitted others to ignore them.
So welcome to the "Big Screw Feast" if you wish to look at it that way.
That has been so much inappropiate conduct and activities from the very top of commerce all the way down to it's lowest levels. ~ This unlevel playing field has given some quit an advantage over the years as they have become powerful and influential with the gains they have aquired. ~ Pillar of the community they have become, as they dictate terms of business.
So if anyone feels wise enough that might wish to address these issues of disparity and attempt to right all this wrongs without throwing the whole world into revolt.
I say, tear ass ~ Everybody needs a good screwing for allowing it to happen in the first place.
Any nation of people that depends on the media ~ to tell them things are just not right ~ after walking around with their eyes close for years refusing to see the disparity because things were good at their house, deserves such a government.
So if you wish to look at ~ the present state of fairs as being very bad ~ and things are being handled all wrong.
I ask you ~~ where was you and your grand insights 6 years ago, as we all skipped down the yellow brick road to see the Wizard?
That some wish to worry about children yet not born, ~ tells me ~ we are not on the same page ~ not at all. ~~ I concern myself with those already born for Christ sakes.
You are still blinded to whats happen about you, depending on the news. ~
I say to you, get out of the safety of your homes and take a hard look at your community ~ then go look at some others in your state and neighboring states.
Dance | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/1/2009 11:15:15 AM |
I was was Not For the first bailout the one that took place in the final days of the last administration when the GOP was running things. I thought it just plain Wrong, a bad idea regardless how inconvenient it was to however many people it would adversly affect.
But you are okay with it now? Because Obama is doing it? That has to be the reason, because your guys have been running the show since 2006. So if you are all for it now, but against it then, Bush is the only real factor that has changed since last year. See, myself, I was against it then AND against it now--and if McCain were master of ceremonies, I'd still be against it. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/1/2009 3:42:25 PM | ~ It's happened Dude! ~ I can whine and carry on all I wish ~ I can listen to you whine, piss and moan ~ and it won't put the bullet back into the gun will it?
The path has been chosen, the American people have been promised future returns , Okay?
and I've no interest in discussing, who was in control when "whatever" happen with the likes of you. ~ All this" nanny nanny poo poo" doesn't solve anything. The GOP is a Hyjacked party, has been for sometime. The first bail-out saved the few wealthy people that found their ass caught in the door as it slammed shut. It my guess that money will never be seen again.
Now we've got a new dealer mid -game, as all the 6th Ace and 3rd Joker falls on the table while many holding bad hands looks on in disbelief. ~~ I don't give sh1t where you like Obama or not, and he doesn't either.
You can't blame Obama for your receding hair line or enlarged prostrate if you wish, matters little to me. You will get my same attention.
What you and I "like" has little to do with anything. ~
American's have crapped in their pants and now cry to be changed.
There is "no" good easy answers that will please everyone. ! That why he got the job, he was the best one placed before us ~ wish is in itself,offering me some hope that all American's are not all completely brain dead.
We can both agree that the bail-outs were a bad idea but that's where agreement stops with you and I.
Dance | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/1/2009 6:34:33 PM | now regarding the spend a thon - a trillion in new taxes, and it should be noted that the WSj already pointed out that based on the IRS' own numbers that he could take every penny from every single person who made more then 250k a year and it would not even come close to covering all of his proposed spending. i posted the WSj article previously.
and I seriously doubt that many investment returns were factored into this "study " that you refer too. ~~
You can make any point you wish to with numbers. plus you use the term " Trillions is new taxes " does that mean above and beyond the old ones? ~~ I know of no "new" taxes at this moment. ~
This obsessing with the future suggest to me that your "present" must be peachy!
As the ships crew make quick, manning pumps and sealing bulkheads to avoid sinking, you busy yourself in private quarters, deciding what grown to wear and the Skipper's Ball.
I know better then attempting to change your minds ~ no longer caring to try, ~ I accept you as you are.
There was an interesting study done on political perception using the humorist personality Corbin (political satirist) as a study subject. ~The end results of the study was, conservatives perceive him as attacking liberal, for they see only what they wish to see, hear only what they want to hear. Liberals on the other hand understand his left handed humor and realize he make sport of the conservatives. ~
and that about sums it up. ~ You only see what you wish to see.
But it's fun to play with you, and I will ~ otherwise your very boring.
and I mean no disrespect by it ~ I just see there is no need to continue with any serious intentions to prove or convince, it's never go anywhere, ~ the upside is ~ I know you are out there and I hone my skills to address the obstacle course that you're in constant creation of. ~ Attempting to block and derail anything that doesn't have a GOP label on it.
Dance | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/1/2009 8:34:58 PM | dance
this isnt a republican issue, nor a dem issue.
i dont care what some non-scientist political humorist has to say. his demonstration is not a scientific study, that is peer reviewed. it's entertainment, nothing more.
this administration is going to spend more money then all previous administrations combined. how you can defend this i do not know. the fact that they are spending money on things that are obviously WELL outside meeting the criteria of stimulating the economy casts this administration in a less then positive light. there is no way to defend this sort of irresponsibility.
you really should try reading the WSJ, it is a good publication.
here is another AP article on the obama's tax returns... apparently those tax returns that went out? well, some of 'em will have to be sent back. lol!
http://rpc.blogrolling.com/redirect.php?r=481bf002a9ae5b225ded710b8102cd9a&url=http%3A%2F%2Face.mu.nu | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/1/2009 11:41:58 PM | I admire your spunk larssan04, ~ your link carried me to a torture form???
you say it's not a GOP/DNC thing with you ~ okay I'm willing to believe you and I know there is many other's inside the GOP that perhaps feel the same way. ~
So are you still offering resistances to this orginial 700 billion? ~ and if so, can you stop it? and if not? ~ what can you do about it? ~ what can I do about it? ~ It appears that much has been dispersed to many of the creators of the problem already ~it's now we are addressing "Main Steet" ~ and only then is there this loud outcry. Why is that?
because is just Joe American, that over spent? ~ That hoped things would improve and didn't? ~ That bought an over valued home? Is he not a victim as well? ~ if all the houses go back on the market at once ~ It's drive down the market, ~ good thing maybe ~ but wise investors will buy them up when the price is right ~ just another situation of the wealthy getting more wealth. ~~
I hate these bailout! ~ can we stop right now and accept our losses and be better of ~ as opposed to continuing ?
So is the total figure 700.2 billion? or is it more.
I wish I'd heard so protest much earlier if money is to be considered all that precious!
>>>The Costs So Far
Five years in, the Pentagon tags the cost of the Iraq war at roughly $600 billion and counting. Joseph E. Stiglitz, a Nobel Prize-winning economist and critic of the war, pegs the long-term cost at more than $4 trillion. The Congressional Budget Office and other analysts say that $1 trillion to $2 trillion is more realistic, depending on troop levels and on how long the American occupation continues. >>The White House press secretary, Dana M. Perino, acknowledged that costs had risen higher than predicted, but said the administration was committed to giving the military everything it needed for success.
“None of these calculations take into account the cost of failure in Iraq,” Ms. Perino said. “Should Al Qaeda have safe haven in Iraq, we are more likely to be attacked again on our homeland. We know the cost of that.”
On the campaign trail, the Democratic candidates, Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton, often say that money for the war would be better spent at home, as Mrs. Clinton did Tuesday when she pegged the war costs at “well over $1 trillion.”
“That is enough,” she continued, “to provide health care for all 47 million uninsured Americans and quality pre-kindergarten for every American child, solve the housing crisis once and for all, make college affordable for every American student and provide tax relief to tens of millions of middle-class families.” >>~~~WASHINGTON — At the outset of the Iraq war, the Bush administration predicted that it would cost $50 billion to $60 billion to oust Saddam Hussein, restore order and install a new government. <<< LOL!
appears ~ we got a slight override here? " Hope spring eternal" ~ So I guess a few American that foolishly bought homes thinking they might be able to afford them are not the only fools around.
I don't know what the answers are ~ If it was up to me , I'd trash Nafta as it now stands, and , or should I say phase it down some. ~ start applying tariff ~ and stop the bleeding out ~ find some meaningful balance in world commerce. Treat these banks and insurance companies found in default like they were General Motor.
As far as these home ~ they need to be revalued and someone needs to take a hard hit. ~ The ones engaged with this over valuing need to be held accountable and pony up the ill gotten gains.
And few heads would be removed in the process.
I 'm glad I not president. ~
But I do wish everyone would have woke up a long time ago ~ this mess could have been avoided.
For most of us blue collars here in Texas anyway, things have sucked for a long time. For many years I had friend that thought they were doing well, making the big buck and couldn't understand my flustration. They were in a bubble and riding high, only now do they see, no more Mr. Joe Potatoes for them.
Dance | |
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