|
|
|
|
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/3/2009 3:43:41 AM | There was an article today stating some people may have to return their stimulus money?
Yes and those people are Chrysler and GM. OOPS, too late for that now! Maybe they can sucker Obama in this time for an I.O.U. LOL......... | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/4/2009 7:08:43 AM | since when are billions of dollars "a few minor items". do YOU have billions sitting around? where do you think those BILLIONS come from! and those "few republicans" ( which included most of the democratic bluedogs) are finally speaking up for the fiscally conservative base that they represent (those 48% that did not vote for the current president). and sorry to tell you this, but this is how our system works. considering the size and scope of this bill do you really find debate and discussion so offensive?
A few Billion? and Offensive? ~ we must have more then that setting around ~ Seems we had it to get into this trouble without much public outcry.
We've got billions coming out our ears!
>>>To date, $830.2 billion dollars have been allocated to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. In addition, $77.1 billion dollars have been requested in the recent supplemental that further fund these wars, for a total of $907.3 billion dollars. The national, state, and local numbers we provide are based on the total of the approved and pending amounts through the end of Fiscal Year 2009.<<<
>>>The U.S. House approved an auto bailout package Wednesday, but it could hit a roadblock in the Senate.<<<
The stopgap measure, approved by a vote of 237 to 170, is designed to let the new Congress and incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama craft a long-term solution. It would also give the companies time to negotiate with creditors and the United Auto Workers union on additional concessions needed to stem their ongoing losses.
Thirty-two GOP representatives voted with 205 Democrats in support of the bill while 20 Democrats and 150 Republicans opposed the bill.
In Michigan, the home of the three major U.S. automakers -- Chrysler, Ford and General Motors -- eight Republicans joined the six Democrats in the state's delegation in voting for the measure. A ninth Michigan Republican, Timothy Walberg, did
WASHINGTON — The emergency bailout of General Motors and Chrysler announced by President Bush on Friday gives the companies a few months to get their businesses in order, but hands off to President-elect Barack Obama the difficult political task of ruling on their future.
The plan pumps $13.4 billion by mid-January into the companies from the fund that Congress authorized to rescue the financial industry. But the two companies have until March 31 to produce a plan for long-term profitability, including concessions from unions, creditors, suppliers and dealers.
In February, another $4 billion will be available for G.M. if the rest of the $700 billion bailout package has been released.<<<<
>>>WASHINGTON — The emergency bailout of General Motors and Chrysler announced by President Bush on Friday gives the companies a few months to get their businesses in order, but hands off to President-elect Barack Obama the difficult political task of ruling on their future.<<<
>>>The plan pumps $13.4 billion by mid-January into the companies from the fund that Congress authorized to rescue the financial industry. But the two companies have until March 31 to produce a plan for long-term profitability, including concessions from unions, creditors, suppliers and dealers.
In February, another $4 billion will be available for G.M. if the rest of the $700 billion bailout package has been released.
Even before the March 31 deadline, it might fall to the Obama administration to persuade Congress to release the second $350 billion of the Treasury Department’s huge financial <<<
>>AIG, a recipient of at least $170 billion in federal bailout money , got an $85 billion loan from the Federal Reserve.
The list released Sunday of "counterparties" that benefited from the bailout is topped by European banks Societe Generale and Deutsche Bank, which received $4.1 billion and $2.6 billion, respectively.
Wall Street firms Goldman Sachs and Merrill Lynch round out the top four, receiving $2.5 billion and $1.8 billion, respectively.<<<<
Dance | |
|
| |
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/4/2009 10:30:15 PM | ...and now even the NEW YORK TIMES is worried about the ever growing DEBT under this administration... what a flippen joke it all is...hello! we don't need to spend spend spend trillions on tattoo removal and pig smell research!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/04/business/economy/04debt.html
when obama said "change" i had no idea he meant "spare change" | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/5/2009 10:50:18 AM | Hmmm yes the NY Times is worried... why because wall street is worried why? because wall street is the ones who caused and created the mess in the first place just as it did in the great depression. If I had the time or the patience to educate you or even believed *which your history indicates would be futile* that you could learn I would explain in detail why it really doesn't matter. The reason wall street is really worried is because it limits the ways they can profit on this mess and evade the responsibility of paying down their portion of the debt.
As for the pig smell research I have been ignoring your ignorance of the topic but frankly i'm just tired of seeing you throw this around. Saddly this isn't a luxury because the Corporate farming industry *not the family farmers* have so overloaded areas with pigs and taken no responsibility for the environmental damage they do. Contrary to your ignorance the smell is just the precursor for such nastiness as hydrogen-sulfide, methane, and amonia and in concentrations sufficent not just for discomfort but poisoning and in long term exposure death. It isn't the smell the money is going to but the means to deal with the waste. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/5/2009 11:28:18 PM | trail views~
the so-called "shovel ready" back to work programs are tax liabilities. they are artificial. they COST tax payer money, and do not generate tax revenues. see what i am getting at?
what is happening is that the gov is pulling money out of the private sector, which means there is less money for investment.
lar | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/8/2009 7:34:17 AM | what is happening is that the gov is pulling money out of the private sector, which means there is less money for investment.
How is this moving of funds taking place ~ other then the standard taxation process?
and No , I don't see it as you do. ~ Tax liabilities? ~ Taxes has always been a liability unless you are the receiver. ~
It seems like double talking ~ like "increase in the deficit reduction"
Can you elaborate please?
It seems as if you are suggesting that we all stop doing anything ~ quit spending ~ and save our way out of this hole we are finding ourselves in?
Maybe some are in a position to do this ~ But I'm surly not! ~ No money comes my way unless someone spends it. ~
If I don't produce and serve someone ~~ I get "Nothing" not a single penny.
Which I see as a fair arrangement and accept it gladly. ~ I really don't see how it can be seen any other way. I'd feel criminal if I was handed money for just being alive and a certain age, ~ or resting on my laura's. ~
I figure the 1 million I've contributed to the system in my life time ~ somebody's already made off with. ~ My cost for being an American citizen ~ that and my service time, ~ we are even. ~ I'm one of the few , that's truly not liability even though so might wish to imply I am ~ because I smoke cigarettes.
Go figure??
Dance | |
|
| |
| |
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/9/2009 12:10:37 PM |
What data are you looking at? These "green shoots" are no more than the result of the biggest taypaper scam in history. The bailout of AIG was nothing more than taxpayer dollars transfered to AIG's counterparties in the CDS's. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/9/2009 3:05:00 PM | I guess what frosts me most is ~ when all these funds is directed into the pockets of the people who caused public outcry was small.
We have been held for ransom by Wall Street and bankers.
And now that it directed to infrastructure ~ we hear of tatoo removal programs and pig smell. ~~
And only now, May 8th 2009 has AIG updated ~ the final amount paid in 1998 " performance bonus" 454 million !
Now that's a lot of smell ~ that needs to be gotten rid of ! ~
Do I hear any loud protest? ~~ Hmmm?
They didn't do anything illegal ! ~ It's like of like the torture "gate" ~
Laws have been changed and it's not illegal to screw people blind.
It's only immoral but it's not illegal.
Now what kind of Country are we living in?
I don't think it's too late to tar and feather somebody.
Dance | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/9/2009 5:37:57 PM | []We have been held for ransom by Wall Street and bankers. [/]
and you paid it! 
i would like to take this opportunity to thank each and every one of you for the contributions you made to my economic well being and for the contributions you'll be making in the future. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/10/2009 8:17:54 AM | Living in Lake Jackson, I know the area well. You paid it too my friend.
This all started a long time ago. ~ Back when many perceived things as being "good".
As many sang Reagans praises ! As oversight was cut, ~ as banking laws were changes.
We have had the fox guarding the hen house far too long. ~ Ever so slowly ~ lobbyist and special interest groups have funneled money into out political system. ~
It's not one person, or one party, or one law ~ but a climate that has been excepted as common -place on Capital Hill and grown into what we see today.
Some of it I seen long along ~ but some I didn't. ~
I offered resistance when I could ~ and was more or less shouted down by those still enjoying the "good life" ~ as they built the high tech planes and brought home the big bucks and waved little plastic flags.
I only fix commodes , garbage disposals what could I possible know? ~ Don't bite your nails and paydays Friday?
We must have banks ~ saddly, ~ we must have lines of credit ~ to conduct day to day business. ~
We must have insurance companies ~ to protect the deal! the protect the "spirit of the deal" ~ all parties must have a degree of confidence in the deal, other wise it's just a dope deal, ~ void of trust, and supported by only the biggest guns.
This is where we've been hurt! and we've been hurt badly.
This is what must be fixed.
Dance | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/10/2009 9:21:59 AM | ^^^^
You got it dance...
We need banks... but not the thieving ones we have now.
Banks should not be charging interest... only a set fee to lend money.
And no more "8% fractional reserve lending"... only 100%
We need insurance companies... not as they are today... basically investment companies for a profit...
All insurance companies should be made non-profit... after all... it IS supposed to be insurance.
As it is now... it's Foxes guarding and running the henhouse... We need to have the laws that are on the books now to be inforced...
Put back true accountability into public service... not this sham...
Where even bushie has already put a pardon in place for himself and his administration just in case someone wants to charge em with "war crimes"...
Where "white collar crime"... is treated differently... Dang it ... they are bigger crooks than any 7-11 hold up idiot... and hurt more people...
Where when times were good... the banks kept their profits... and now that times are bad... the taxpayer is giving em money?... without even being able to know just where it's going?
Even now these "financial" crooks are pushing up the cost of oil... all on pure greed and speculation... with "oil stocks" at levels higher than ever seen since 1990....
Arrg. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/11/2009 1:46:13 AM | | Ok, we've drifted OT a tad. I'll take my share of the responsibility. But to answer the question posed. I had and still have doubts about the "stimulus package". Primarily because it was crafted for political ends as opposed to economic. It's structured wrong because it's back end loaded and most of the "good" is timed to be maximized the 12 months before the 2012 election. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/11/2009 10:02:49 PM | How refreshing it is ~ to hear someone accept the truth, ~ we all played a part. The times I wasn't engaged in local politics, times when I didn't do enough, ~ I could have been more engaged. ~ It's hard to do, but somebody gotta do it ~ try to keep em honest. It hard to stay informed and current. We all must do better. The Bush administrating are not soley to blame ~ the American people voted them in a supported it with great vigor! And that just one of several administrations that screwed up. ~
As for the bail-out ~ it's seems there are several, ~ I'm not educated enough to offer great details. ~ I'd like to see good banks stay and those insolvent go away. ~! Just like any other business. I like to see Insurance companies that can't honor their purpose ~ yet have taken the money, to be subject to defend them selves in a court of law. ~ Like any business that fails to deliver the product sold. ~
As for investment in infrastructure ~ I'm all for it. ~ America has not invested in any grand projects since the 'Big Dig" in Boston, to my knowledge. ~ We have invested in NASA, Hubble ~ things of that sort ~ and we do all take some national pride in this.
But we need to do much more, ~ This dependence on foreign crude needs to be curbed,
in what ever form it takes. Mass transit, disturbution of resources and energy. ~ Water projects. Clean water supply will be a big issue for our children. ~ They must have it!
We have topped 300 million people , this continued growth will be impossible to sustain with the present infrastructure.
So I'm for it ~ I hate we'd wasted 1 trillion to date and more expected on this Iran mess.
It might have needed to have been done at some point, but it was done poorly with much waste. We'll make it right ~ but it's going to cost us dearly.
We invested in a poor investment and I never heard great out of public outcry ~ now lets invest here at home.
We helped Europe rebuild after the war ~ and got rich as a country. ~ Then a rebuilt Europe turned around and kicked our ass in the market place for all of their factories was new, state of the arts ~ and ours was outdated turn of the Century equiptment.
We (many) of our "our big business people" ~ have now choice to invest in factories aboard exploiting cheap labor rather then investing here at home. ~ This too need address. ~ We need to export something besides cardboard, arms and wheat.
and above all ~ this lobbyist and loose and free money for grabs needs to stop! money don't talk , it screams! ~A public service need to be one of honor and respect, not what we see today. ~ That's going to be the hardest thing to fix, I fear. ~ Money buys media, lawyers, bookkeepers, lawmakers, and Judges. People are willing to do bad, nasty things for money.
Dance | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/18/2009 8:09:49 AM | here's why the tax the rich tactic never seems to work... gotta love the wall street journal.. it's truly one of the best papers out there...it is a shame more people on these forums do not read it...it's even sadder that our president in training doesn't read the wsj either...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124260067214828295.html
By ARTHUR LAFFER and STEPHEN MOORE
Soak the Rich, Lose the Rich
With states facing nearly $100 billion in combined budget deficits this year, we're seeing more governors than ever proposing the Barack Obama solution to balancing the budget: Soak the rich. Lawmakers in California, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York and Oregon want to raise income tax rates on the top 1% or 2% or 5% of their citizens. New Illinois Gov. Patrick Quinn wants a 50% increase in the income tax rate on the wealthy because this is the "fair" way to close his state's gaping deficit.
Mr. Quinn and other tax-raising governors have been emboldened by recent studies by left-wing groups like the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities that suggest that "tax increases, particularly tax increases on higher-income families, may be the best available option." A recent letter to New York Gov. David Paterson signed by 100 economists advises the Empire State to "raise tax rates for high income families right away."
Here's the problem for states that want to pry more money out of the wallets of rich people. It never works because people, investment capital and businesses are mobile: They can leave tax-unfriendly states and move to tax-friendly states.
And the evidence that we discovered in our new study for the American Legislative Exchange Council, "Rich States, Poor States," published in March, shows that Americans are more sensitive to high taxes than ever before. The tax differential between low-tax and high-tax states is widening, meaning that a relocation from high-tax California or Ohio, to no-income tax Texas or Tennessee, is all the more financially profitable both in terms of lower tax bills and more job opportunities.
Updating some research from Richard Vedder of Ohio University, we found that from 1998 to 2007, more than 1,100 people every day including Sundays and holidays moved from the nine highest income-tax states such as California, New Jersey, New York and Ohio and relocated mostly to the nine tax-haven states with no income tax, including Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire and Texas. We also found that over these same years the no-income tax states created 89% more jobs and had 32% faster personal income growth than their high-tax counterparts.
Did the greater prosperity in low-tax states happen by chance? Is it coincidence that the two highest tax-rate states in the nation, California and New York, have the biggest fiscal holes to repair? No. Dozens of academic studies -- old and new -- have found clear and irrefutable statistical evidence that high state and local taxes repel jobs and businesses.
Martin Feldstein, Harvard economist and former president of the National Bureau of Economic Research, co-authored a famous study in 1998 called "Can State Taxes Redistribute Income?" This should be required reading for today's state legislators. It concludes: "Since individuals can avoid unfavorable taxes by migrating to jurisdictions that offer more favorable tax conditions, a relatively unfavorable tax will cause gross wages to adjust. . . . A more progressive tax thus induces firms to hire fewer high skilled employees and to hire more low skilled employees."
More recently, Barry W. Poulson of the University of Colorado last year examined many factors that explain why some states grew richer than others from 1964 to 2004 and found "a significant negative impact of higher marginal tax rates on state economic growth." In other words, soaking the rich doesn't work. To the contrary, middle-class workers end up taking the hit.
Finally, there is the issue of whether high-income people move away from states that have high income-tax rates. Examining IRS tax return data by state, E.J. McMahon, a fiscal expert at the Manhattan Institute, measured the impact of large income-tax rate increases on the rich ($200,000 income or more) in Connecticut, which raised its tax rate in 2003 to 5% from 4.5%; in New Jersey, which raised its rate in 2004 to 8.97% from 6.35%; and in New York, which raised its tax rate in 2003 to 7.7% from 6.85%. Over the period 2002-2005, in each of these states the "soak the rich" tax hike was followed by a significant reduction in the number of rich people paying taxes in these states relative to the national average. Amazingly, these three states ranked 46th, 49th and 50th among all states in the percentage increase in wealthy tax filers in the years after they tried to soak the rich.
This result was all the more remarkable given that these were years when the stock market boomed and Wall Street gains were in the trillions of dollars. Examining data from a 2008 Princeton study on the New Jersey tax hike on the wealthy, we found that there were 4,000 missing half-millionaires in New Jersey after that tax took effect. New Jersey now has one of the largest budget deficits in the nation.
We believe there are three unintended consequences from states raising tax rates on the rich. First, some rich residents sell their homes and leave the state; second, those who stay in the state report less taxable income on their tax returns; and third, some rich people choose not to locate in a high-tax state. Since many rich people also tend to be successful business owners, jobs leave with them or they never arrive in the first place. This is why high income-tax states have such a tough time creating net new jobs for low-income residents and college graduates.
Those who disapprove of tax competition complain that lower state taxes only create a zero-sum competition where states "race to the bottom" and cut services to the poor as taxes fall to zero. They say that tax cutting inevitably means lower quality schools and police protection as lower tax rates mean starvation of public services.
They're wrong, and New Hampshire is our favorite illustration. The Live Free or Die State has no income or sales tax, yet it has high-quality schools and excellent public services. Students in New Hampshire public schools achieve the fourth-highest test scores in the nation -- even though the state spends about $1,000 a year less per resident on state and local government than the average state and, incredibly, $5,000 less per person than New York. And on the other side of the ledger, California in 2007 had the highest-paid classroom teachers in the nation, and yet the Golden State had the second-lowest test scores.
Or consider the fiasco of New Jersey. In the early 1960s, the state had no state income tax and no state sales tax. It was a rapidly growing state attracting people from everywhere and running budget surpluses. Today its income and sales taxes are among the highest in the nation yet it suffers from perpetual deficits and its schools rank among the worst in the nation -- much worse than those in New Hampshire. Most of the massive infusion of tax dollars over the past 40 years has simply enriched the public-employee unions in the Garden State. People are fleeing the state in droves.
One last point: States aren't simply competing with each other. As Texas Gov. Rick Perry recently told us, "Our state is competing with Germany, France, Japan and China for business. We'd better have a pro-growth tax system or those American jobs will be out-sourced." Gov. Perry and Texas have the jobs and prosperity model exactly right. Texas created more new jobs in 2008 than all other 49 states combined. And Texas is the only state other than Georgia and North Dakota that is cutting taxes this year.
The Texas economic model makes a whole lot more sense than the New Jersey model, and we hope the politicians in California, Delaware, Illinois, Minnesota and New York realize this before it's too late. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/18/2009 8:21:03 AM | fireknight~
fyi.. go watch the cspan hearings on fannie mae and freddie mac. wall street had some big help in "causing" this mess. senators such as chris dodd, barney franks, gram...
as far as the pig farming goes...
listen pal, my family owns farm land, ok, going back 3 generations. trust me, i am well aware of how the "issue" is thrown about. the PUBLIC outcry on the matter has to do with the smell. period. and as far as the BS about the importance of the "research, amonia, so-called poison, etc., " listen, the package was supposed to STIMULATE THE ECONOMY! HOW IS PUTTING $$$ IN THE POCKETS OF PHDS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA STIMULATE THE ECONOMY? HELLO! do you not understand that taking money out of the private sector - where JOBS ARE CREATED - and putting it into the public sector means that much less $$$ for new business ventures or investments? all obama is doing is creating FAKE jobs that increase the LIABILITIES of the US taxpayer over time.
lar | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/18/2009 10:13:39 AM | Lar if you had the slightest clue of history and really studied it as opposed to what the WSJ and other self motivated keep the status quo'ers keep telling you it might get you somewhere but it doesn't.
The simple truth of the matter is you're wrong a careful review of history shows that its just not as simple as private sector creates jobs. Never has been. Capitalism's default prefered status is ironically self destructive. It wants slavery with a captive market which inturn means it cannibalizes itself. Indeed Capitalism comes almost directly from feudalism except that authority moved from "nobility" to the "controller of means of production" not even one might add the creator of a product, nor the labor that is needed to produce the product. This becomes even more amusing when we discuss the modern situation of people who claim the "rich" take risks and so are worth rewards history also shows us the Rich are far FAR less likely to take risks. Study of how the USA fell to Japan as maker of electronics in the 70's-80's is a literal case study of the stagnation of the "private sector" when it comes to risk. Wonder why all movies seem to be the same? music always the same? etc?
On the other hand almost all innovation and advancement has actually come from the public sector or by its intervention. At least until McCarthy made people match Capitalism equal Democracy in the same sentence something that was NEVER meant to be. Further the WSJ is actually wrong historically the only way to redistibute wealth and cause growth has been the soaking of the rich usually by force of arms so be happy its taxes. The history just doesn't agree with you or the WSJ. Indeed the only reason companies are moving is because we allow them to in order to avoid taxes, if we did as is our right in the constitution and charged them import fees and removed our protections from them the would hardly be as eager to move.
The problem with the concept of listening to the status quo is they don't want you to think which saddly suits the majority of americans lately. ohh and no its not just the smell nor does your family farms equate to the corporate pig farms that are being discussed by the bill. which by the way would result in new products for new businesses to be founded on and make which would in turn create more jobs. DUH | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/19/2009 12:05:08 AM | I have not followed this thred ......however ....... I am one pissed off voter ..... here it my vote .... no, no, no, .... no, no, no, .....
........................................................................................................................................................... long enough .... now ???? | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/19/2009 12:10:19 AM | Heeelarious Larissan, your quoting an article by Laffer. Writer of the famous laffer curve.
Now I want you to look at this image, it's the laffer curve, showing how taxes effect income.
Now look at how many points the line of best fit hits.
http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/14/800112481_f6fffcd663_o.gif
Tell me this man isn't a right wing anti tax hack.
Remember when people were claiming that stock market was falling since Obama got ellected, and it was all his fault? Well now it's better since the inauguration. Suddenly the stock market doesn't matter anymore... | |
|
| |
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/19/2009 1:48:28 AM |
Oh Chucky ......... You might have a point ..... if you were an a American !!!! However .... you are not !!
Which means .... You have NO !!! Idea ....... about the real world of the .... USA !!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy
The genetic fallacy is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context.
What does me being Canadian have to do with the stock market being in recovery? | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 5/19/2009 5:18:30 AM |
Oh Chucky ......... You might have a point ..... if you were an a American !!!! However .... you are not !!
Which means .... You have NO !!! Idea ....... about the real world of the .... USA !!!!
Anyone else "hearing" that in a Shatner voice?
I'll skip the obvious jokes about "large stimulous packages" and get right to it.
I cannot see how putting money into projects to create jobs is a bad thing in this sort of economy. At the very least, the people involved will be earning a living wage, and the government will have the benefits of these projects. When the alternative is making them live in poverty on welfare or unemployment benefits (and all the other stuff that comes with it like crime, abuse, etc)... why not? | |
|
| |
|
| Page 12 of 13
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 |
|
Home
login 
