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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 1:18:38 PM |
More power to him if Mr. Obama can walk in Mr. Reagan's footsteps. OMG ... let's hope OBAMA will avoid walking in Reagan's footsteps ... like the plague. It's because of the trickle-down sh!t that he started that we're in such a mess.
People with money ... sit on it. If they do re-invest it, it's not in a way that in any way, shape, or form benefits the poor. The idea was that those with money would invest it in business that would eventually "trickle-down" and help the poor by giving them jobs ... yadda, yadda, yadda. But that's not what happened. The rich kept their money, invested it outside of the USA and in the mean time, the poor got poorer and the rich just got richer.
The trickle-down theory did not work and I sure hope OBAMA won't go that route. I believe during the campaign, he insinuated that he was not going to go that route at all. It's time to put us poor folks back to work and I sure hope that's what will happen.
If there is going to be any money handed out ... I'm opposed to that. I don't think that does anyone any good at all although I could use a few hundred dollars right now to get some repair done on my house. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 1:53:10 PM | Plain and simple - this is socialism. Socialism is a VERY bad thing. Our great grand kids will be in debt for LIFE to pay for this... Do you want your great grand kids living in a place like the Soviet Republic? That's where we're headed...
When I was 9 years old, my dad took a copy of "Atlas Shrugged", taped a $100 bill in the back of it, showed it to me, and put it on the bookshelf. He said when and if I ever read that book and passed an oral exam given by him, I could have that $100. Well, in 1973 that was a LOT of money, and I did it before I turned 10.
I hear a LOT about that book these days. It is oddly prophetic. It's about what happens when the liberals, and the unions, and the underclass band together and become modern day Robin Hoods and learn to vote as a block... Sound familiar? It sure does to me. It sounds to me like a perfect description of Barack Obama's vote!
Folks - just how long do you think you can "stick it to the rich"??? There's only so many times you can go to that well before it runs DRY! And long before it does, what's going to keep them from turning around just like they did in "Atlas Shrugged" and saying, "Screw this! I quit! Why should I bust my butt, build a business, buy equipment, create jobs, and contribute to the overall economy if the government is just going to keep taxing me back into the stone age?"
In THIS economy, just how many people in Al Gore's "top 2%" do you think are STILL what you would call "rich"? Well, I used to be in the "top 2%", but I'm not anymore, and haven't been in years. I also know a lot of other folks who were, but they AIN'T any more either! Contrary to popular belief, yes, we DID pay taxes... In fact we ALL paid 6 figures in taxes every year... We paid a WAY higher percentage than other folks...
How many times do you think you can stick it to these people before it quits working? THEN what? How are we going to pay these BILLIONS PLUS INTEREST we owe to the Chinese? Where are you going to get the money then?
Oh wait - I know - we'll just start on the next layer. We'll start calling the upper middle class, "rich", right? Oh wait - we do that already...
Mark
The Uppity Conservative
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 2:43:07 PM |
Folks - just how long do you think you can "stick it to the rich"??? There's only so many times you can go to that well before it runs DRY! And long before it does, what's going to keep them from turning around just like they did in "Atlas Shrugged" and saying, "Screw this! I quit! Why should I bust my butt, build a business, buy equipment, create jobs, and contribute to the overall economy if the government is just going to keep taxing me back into the stone age?"
I think the question should be how long do you think the rich could continue to stick it to the middle class. Lets use one example CEO’s of major companies taking huge bonuses when their companies are recording record losses.
We are heading right back to where we were when we left Europe a two class society the rich and the poor
How many times do you think you can stick it to these people before it quits working? THEN what? How are we going to pay these BILLIONS PLUS INTEREST we owe to the Chinese? Where are you going to get the money then?
How about asking the people who ran our country into the poor house over the last eight years how they intended to pay back the billions they have borrowed from the Chinese, the new administration was handed this mess they did not create it,
We should be thankful that we have a president who has the interest of the American people formost in his mind | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 2:53:09 PM | | This package is heading right for the CEO'S and no one else. This is total BS...the obama wants a TRILLION...THATS RIGHT...A TRILLION to go out. Where is it coming from? You and me...thats where. Our taxes are going to skyrocket to bail out the millionaires in charge...this is not going to help anyone.... | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 3:00:57 PM | I think it's gonna pass because there actually are a few republicans that can make sensible decisions, very few.
How about asking the people who ran our country into the poor house over the last eight years how they intended to pay back the billions they have borrowed from the Chinese, the new administration was handed this mess they did not create it,
They sure do have enough dumb followers that think borrowing those billions was a 'conservative' thing to do along with running up the biggest deficit EVER. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 3:50:40 PM |
I think it's gonna pass because there actually are a few republicans that can make sensible decisions, very few. How about asking the people who ran our country into the poor house over the last eight years how they intended to pay back the billions they have borrowed from the Chinese, the new administration was handed this mess they did not create it, They sure do have enough dumb followers that think borrowing those billions was a 'conservative' thing to do along with running up the biggest deficit EVER.
Wait, will someone please tell me exactly where the money is coming from for the new bailout being proposed and ramrodded through by the Great Messiah President Barrack Hussein Obama? I'm just curious where this money is coming from. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 4:33:36 PM | | It is sounding like socialism, but you guys is that really a bad thing. Europe, Asia, Africa and South American countries have been around for thousands of years. We are a very young country, maybe we need to look at our big brothers, better yet parent/grandparent countries and learn just a few lessons. Just think about it. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 5:07:21 PM |
Wait, will someone please tell me exactly where the money is coming from for the new bailout being proposed and ramrodded through by the Great Messiah President Barrack Hussein Obama? I'm just curious where this money is coming from.
With all that bragging about being a trained economist, one would think you'd figure that out.
It is sounding like socialism, but you guys is that really a bad thing. Europe, Asia, Africa and South American countries have been around for thousands of years. We are a very young country, maybe we need to look at our big brothers, better yet parent/grandparent countries and learn just a few lessons. Just think about it.
Actually, socialism is a scare term thrown around by repugnantins attempting to scare their uneducated followers. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 5:31:28 PM |
With all that bragging about being a trained economist, one would think you'd figure that out.
I don't understand why such a simple question comes back with such a stuck-up answer, but sure, I can think of a few places it could come from.
A.) Jack up the tax rate on everyone. $900 trillion dollars comes out to be an increase in taxes of a little less than $3000 for every man womanand child.
B.) Cut spending in other areas. Let's see, goodbye medicaid, Social Security, WIC, Military? Your choice.
C.) Borrow from foreign countries. Continue to borrow against the national debt, and continue to sacrifice the future of our nation, leaving our children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc, etc, etc. in an even worse problem then they are already going to be in.
D.) Obama's pocket. I doubt that even President Obama is worth $900 Billion dollars.
Again, it was a simple question, no need to be snobbish about it.
I dont' understand what it is about some of the posters on here, be they Republican or Democrat, who can not engage in a civic debate without name calling. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 5:58:12 PM | It is sounding like socialism, but you guys is that really a bad thing. Europe, Asia, Africa and South American countries have been around for thousands of years. We are a very young country, maybe we need to look at our big brothers, better yet parent/grandparent countries and learn just a few lessons. Just think about it.
faith2565, that's an insulting comment and the little "winky" face doesn't make it any less so. do you think that just because people believe in our country, our constitution and our capitalist system that we haven't given this deep and meaningful thought? i really take umbrage at that.
i believe that socialism robs us of the very spirit and drive that made this country the leader of the free world in such a relatively short time, the place where all could come to fulfill their dreams because they had the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and as it stands now that extends to every man, woman and child. you are not guaranteed a level playing field, a free ride or cradle to grave essentials. so what. if you get off your ass you can be anything you want to be here and so can your children.
are you prepared to close our borders, have your health concerns decided for you, rob your children of any incentive to reap the rewards of hard work, heart felt charity and civil responsibility? do you want them to trade their individual rights for a medical card and a college diploma that will be useless because everyone will have one as mandated by the state!
there is no free lunch. for everything you accept, there is something you give up. and if where your grandparents came from was so wonderful, why did they leave? | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 6:52:19 PM |
faith2565, that's an insulting comment and the little "winky" face doesn't make it any less so. do you think that just because people believe in our country, our constitution and our capitalist system that we haven't given this deep and meaningful thought? i really take umbrage at that.
It is only insulting to those that have a misguided fear, don't understand how capitalism is failing and an unshakeable faith in dogmatic rhetoric. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 9:10:31 PM |
are you prepared to close our borders, have your health concerns decided for you, rob your children of any incentive to reap the rewards of hard work, heart felt charity and civil responsibility? do you want them to trade their individual rights for a medical card and a college diploma that will be useless because everyone will have one as mandated by the state!
Ross Perot predicted that we would end up on the short side of the trading stick and he was right, in my opinion the first people we need to take care of are the citizens of the United States, we do not need to close our borders but we do need to selectively trade with other countries that at least attempt to ensure human rights, trading with China does what for our economy, purchasing oil from countries intent on our destruction does what for us? If we can’t take care of our own then who can we take care of?
I don’t want them to trade their rights what I would like to see is that every child in our country has an opportunity to a good education and health care, children do not pick their parents. If wanting children to have an opportunity to be all that they can be makes me a socialist then I am a socialist.
there is no free lunch. for everything you accept, there is something you give up. and if where your grandparents came from was so wonderful, why did they leave?
My grand parents left because of a two class society the rich and the poor, they came here for freedom, why did your parents leave the country they were born in. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 9:43:19 PM | "for stronger organizations that would sustain themselves "
When organizations have to have tax relief with reduced taxes during the best of economic times I do not call that sustaining themselves. When a greater share of the costs of running this country are carried by the Middle Class in order for the wealthy and major corporations to have tax cuts, then the benefit of carrying that extra burden should come to those Middle Class Americans. Trickle down didn't trickle down to middle class Americans, didn't create jobs for middle class Americans, and didn't create sustainable organizations. Reaganomics was a huge failure.
What has maintained the stock markets has been ever looser credit such that more and more Americans reached the point at which they could not make enough money to maintain their credit payments. The stock market depends on consumers having sufficient money to spend on goods and services. the stock market does not depend upon government welfare to the wealthy and corporations. It isn't that the government ran out of welfare checks to the wealthy and major corporations that caused the crash ... it is that consumers ran out of credit to spend ... they ran out of money to spend years ago. They ran out of credit well over a year ago ... it took this long after them running out of credit for the whole house of cards to fall.
So, are you right that if the businesses become dependent upon government as consumer at the stimulated rate that it is sustainable? Absolutely. However, what it will do is allow the circular nature of the economy to recover such that the American consumer has the work that produces in income that buys the goods and services that are produced for consumers vs the government. That is how businesses have consumers again. However, if the products being consumed are not made in America, then the circle of the economy is broken again
Which brings us to the balance of trade..... which hasn't been balanced since long before nafta but worse with nafta. It is a big piece of the economic sustainability problem. Balancing it has to be a big part of the solution, too.
However, first we put as many of the 3.5 million back to work as we can ... and get a long overdue overhaul of our infrastructure while we are at it. Concurrently, they need to be looking at what companies can be making that requires American workers to make it so that Americans have jobs and can both pay taxes and consume.
This may come as a shock to some, but an economy can be healthy without a stock market. It can't be healthy without an employed populace. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/6/2009 11:36:21 PM | I would like to see is that every child in our country has an opportunity to a good education and health care
they already do. what child is denied this?
If wanting children to have an opportunity to be all that they can be makes me a socialist then I am a socialist
everyone in this country already has the same opportunities; every man, woman and child of every race, creed and religion. and generation after generation has bettered themselves and their social and economic standing within our system. government does not need to intervene for this to happen. as a matter of fact, they do more harm than good when they do. for all the money we spent on public education why do we have some of the dumbest students in all the industrialized nations? because it's not about excellent and learning, it's about giving each kid a "level playing field". and it's a resounding failure.
why should i pay for those who don't want to get off their asses and assume any responsibility or risk for making something of their lives? i thought with obama getting into office that whole "victim" mentality was behind us. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/7/2009 3:36:33 AM |
they already do. what child is denied this?
Go the suburbs and then to the inner cities and your question wil be answered
for all the money we spent on public education why do we have some of the dumbest students in all the industrialized nations?
If as you state every child has equal opportunity to education why do we have so many illiterate children? We are lucky to have such a caring and giving person as President. Within his first three weeks in office President Obama signed a bill extending health care to four million children, Ex President Bush vetoed it twice when it was sent to him | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/7/2009 6:48:49 AM | Go the suburbs and then to the inner cities and your question
there are both schools and hospital and health care in the inner cities. what urban inner city does NOT have these?
and how many people in the suburbs started in the inner cities? people make the decision to better their own lives. it's hard work and can take a long time. but in this country it can happen simply because someone decides to do so and acts on it.
If as you state every child has equal opportunity to education why do we have so many illiterate children?
i've seen statistics on the level of knowledge, the drop out rates and how many students from our public school system in chicago go onto community and four year colleges. i don't know the illiteracy rate. i will assume that you do and that you find them to be high. the reason would be the same. mostly it's the teachers' unions. you can't get rid of the bad teachers and there are no incentives for the good ones. there is also the matter of parental support and participation. if parents don't care how their children do in school, odds are the child won't either.
now as you said, children do not pick their parents. absolutely correct. but if we stop giving money to people that have children but don't take responsibility for them, that probably wouldn't happen as much.
We are lucky to have such a caring and giving person as President
he can be as caring and giving as he pleases. but he wants all of us to pay for what he thinks is an acceptable social agenda. and by "us" i mean the wage earning population that have money taken from our paychecks before we even see it!
democrats and rich liberals pay a fortune to accountants to pay as little tax as possible. some pay none at all, illegally! so they have decided that they are the best judges of how their money should be spent, but the government is the most qualified to decide how your money and mine should be spent.
obama's agenda is a very radical, left wing one that includes changing the rights of citizens and increasing the "rights" of government, including the redistribution of wealth. obama is a smooth guy with great oratory skills and "star" appeal. and like every politician he will say and do whatever it takes to get elected.
Within his first three weeks in office President Obama signed a bill extending health care to four million children,
don't confuse health care and health insurance. for what is being spent on insurance, we could build clinics all around this country that would serve communities and urban areas better than government issued insurance policies. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/7/2009 7:17:20 AM |
a lot of that has to do with the teachers' union. you can't get rid of the bad teachers and there is no incentive for the good ones.
Right, let’s blame the teacher’s union when all else fails blame the unions. Some CEO on wall street is told his salary will be capped at 500,000 and they cry, while our teachers receive 50 to 60 a year, is their some thing wrong here?
there is also the matter of parental support and participation. if parents don't care how their children do in school, odds are the child won't either.
We can only do the best we can for these unfortunate children, again they did not pick their parents nor did they pick the social environment they born into
now as you said, children do not pick their parents. absolutely correct. but if we stop giving money to people that have children but don't take responsibility for them, that probably wouldn't happen as much.
So your answer is we will starve these children? by denying their parents welfare? Don’t you think we could better and maybe show these children that there is another way
Your solution is to continue the cycle that perpetuates the society we live in? | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/7/2009 7:37:03 AM |
Your solution is to continue the cycle that perpetuates the society we live in?
children can look at any number of people in this country past and present and know there is a better way. just because they're poor doesn't mean they're stupid.
the cycle is perpetuated by paying people who do not take responsibility for their own lives and actions.
what is the correlation between welfare and starvation? have you got studies or statistics regarding this? and why bring the discussion to a personal attack level by "demonizing" me as an unfeeling and uncaring beast that would let children starve? i know that tactic. it's a cheap shot.
people should make their own choices in life. that's what this country is founded on. that is the right that many died for. who am i to say to ANYONE, i am better than you, my life is better than yours and i (as a superior person to you) can tell you the "better" way to live? that assumes a level of superiority on my part which flies in the face of my belief that we really are all truly created equally. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/7/2009 8:01:33 AM | Honestly, this stimulus package will not work at all. Pandering to the corporations and
giving money to the people that will be taken back out of their taxes,is not going to fix anything. I am sure ACORN, the only community organization ever, for the purpose of voter fraud, lmao,will appreciate the millions they will get.
If the politicians would ever remove the pockets of the money free for me fog ,that dissipates their common sense, they might recieve redemption for their sins by passing the Fair Tax Bill. You want great health care? Support the Fair Tax Bill. You want more money for better schools and Teachers? Ditto! You want more money in your pockets, from your income and a tax rebate every year? Better roads and energy programs? Jobs like you have never seen before? An economy,I believe that would surpass any we have known so far. No more IRS? Pay off the National debt fast and borrow no more? I would offer that all research the fair tax site. It will certainly impress you.
http://www.fairtax.org | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/7/2009 8:11:49 AM |
children can look at any number of people in this country past and present and know there is a better way. just because they're poor doesn't mean they're stupid.
Your right your IQ does not depend on your social standing a child could have an IQ of 130 and still end up in prison, it's the environment that a child is exposed to that plays a role in whether that child will use their IQ productively or use it to commit crimes
the cycle is perpetuated by paying people who do not take responsibility for their own lives and actions.
If we do not pay welfare, give food stamps ect to the parent then their has to be another way to take care of the child, denying the parent (care giver} the basic's of survival denies the child, if we want to stop the cycle we have to do better for the children born into less then desirable social conditions
what is the correlation between welfare and starvation? have you got studies or statistics regarding this? and why bring the discussion to a personal attack level by "demonizing" me as an unfeeling and uncaring beast that would let children starve? i know that tactic. it's a cheap shot.
I did not demonize you, your solution punishes a child for the situation he/she is born into, your solution quarantees a continuation of the cycle
people should make their own choices in life. that's what this country is founded on. that is the right that many died for. who am i to say to ANYONE, i am better than you, my life is better than yours and i (as a superior person to you) can tell you the "better" way to live? that assumes a level of superiority on my part which flies in the face of my belief that we really are all truly created equally.
Our choices are influenced by our opportunities, again children do not pick their parents. As a combat veteran and citizen I want my taxes used to the betterment of the society that I live in, sorry to disagree with you we are not all created equally | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/7/2009 8:45:52 AM | Can't do that. Read awhile ago that there is an agreement between China and US that US will import Chinese made products in exchange for loans to US.
Then the thing to do is stop taking loans from China. We already know that they deliver inferior products. Look at the lead paint in kiddie toys and such.
Last time I checked we were a country that put it's people first and everybody else second (according to many who are now ecstatic that the world loves us again). Instead of band aids that will only prolong the agony of this economic crisis as each bailout is only temporary, go back to page one, look at the 2nd post and see many of the things we need to do. Wars will not start over our coutry flat out telling people this is the way it HAS to be. Corporations need to bring the work back to this nation. End of story. There cannot be any long term steady employment unless it happens.
There is a word in every language in the world that means no. We need to start using it more, forget all these WTO's and NAFTA's and whatever else stands in our way. We have to be tough. No one will die if we have to go for a time without them while we reestablish manufacturing in this country.
Tax laws need to be fixed. Obama himself said there is plenty of time for profit (hey we agree on something). It may very well be time for a few years of break even in this country to get us back on the right track to being a self sufficent nation that can take care of it's own people's wants and needs. Loopholes in the system can and must be closed if we want the ecomony to rebound anytime in the near future.
Those going to goverment asking for handouts for frivoloties need to be told to stand on their own two feet while things get sorted out. If they cannot they are a liability and others will come along who will figure out ways to do the job and do it more efficiently. People who make a living by things that are not necessity may have to take a back seat right now. It's sad that some can't make a living by doing what they love, but for awhile--until the economy bounces back-starving artists may have to work at an assembly plant for a bit.
And I hate to sound like a broken record--but I feel this has a strong effect on the economy. Illegal aliens must be made to return to their country of origin. They are a drain on this society and I feel a major contribution to it's ills. And for those jobs "American's aren't willing to do"---unemployment is at 7.5%. Tough toes--instead of a government handout you must be willing to do any job that is available unless your health requires otherwise. And those that employ illegals must be heavily fined, and made to hire American citizens to fill these positions at a living wage. Migrant worker visas must be halted until our own people are working. If employers can prove their company cannot survive on paying decent then let them apply for special temporary government subsidies to help until they can figure out a way to cut spending.
Stop sending money to other countries for aid. I'm not saying we can't help countries with some kind of disaster but.....We need the aid right now and we have to come first. I feel for third world countries as much as anyone on here, but unless we want to become one ourselves--we have to take a pause from providing for others and provide for ourselves. Individual donations are up to the donor--but our tax dollars need to stay in this country for the immediate future.
If this economy is as bad as the democrats say it is (and I still believe a bit of this is fear mongering on their part to shove this bill through), then Americans must get off their collective hind-ends and put forth the effort to make us a great nation once again.
It can be done and we're just the folks to do it. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/7/2009 8:54:41 AM | | Nothing happening in our society is new. All of the grandparent/parent countries (of our ancestors) were once the super powers and they have all gone through similar phases. Instead of being so arrogant to believe it can not happen to us, maybe we should learn from our ancestors. African countries had there hay day. South America countries were booming civilization. Asia for some reason is reclaiming its super power status. Some European countries are trying to maintain the status. Maybe anything that is not American should not be spit on. We are not perfect and can learn from others. I would love to come back 300 years from now. Not trying to insult, just have us think. We have been wrong before in our country. | |
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| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/7/2009 11:05:19 AM |
Stop sending money to other countries for aid. I'm not saying we can't help countries with some kind of disaster but.....We need the aid right now and we have to come first.
Aid is seriously a trivial quantity in the American budget. Withdrawing it would cause more instability in the world, something not very good for American (or Canadian) security.
Also, the other issue is those that want to reduce foreign aid, rarely want to redirect the money to aiding Americans in trouble, usually they want tax breaks.
The idea that the USA is in trouble because it helps other countries is ridiculous. The USA is involved in foreign markets, it doesn't "Send" jobs to places to help those places, companies move to areas in order to open up markets, and take advantage of depressed labour prices.
Anybody who talks about making significant spending cuts in the a time of economic downturn has not learned anything from the great depression. The time for fiscal prudence and financial balance sheets was when the economy was good. Which is why Clinton could produce a balanced budget. Cutting spending will simply put more people out of jobs at this point, and cause the recession to turn into a depression.
I have repeatedly made statements about the insane spending practices of the Bush administration. I find it amusing that now of all times is when a balanced budget is important. When this hasn't been produced by a Republican Administration in decades. | |
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