|
|
|
|
|
| |
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/13/2009 8:12:38 PM | No! I haven't read the 1100 pages yet! ~ In Fact , the people that played little part in it's creation ~ wish to comment and vote on it says, they haven't either, Whining they wanted 48 hours to read it, ~ while knowing it was to be on the Presidents desk Monday morning during this whole process. ~ Get it? the boss wants it on his desk monday morning. ~ Now let me ask you something, if your boss told you to do something and you are interested in keeping your job and serving the greater good , would it be on his desk Monday if it's with-in your power?
This piece of work has been in progress for 5 months now, no secret
~ I know that government "don't create jobs" like " farmers don't create chickens"~
I know that spend spend spend ~ "can" mean jobs jobs jobs ~ if spent correctly ~ and it seems that the GOP are the only ones that knows how this can be done ~ according to them. ~ Yet they failed to show up in timely manner and offer it.
I know that the GOP is dragging their feet and thinking up as many ways to fail ~ as they possible can.
I know that they were invited and included in this process from the off set, ~ invited to the White House to chill out and visit to discuss, days prior as teams of people have worked for the last 5 days both night and day to create this document ~ I know they, the GOP declined the invitation(s) for reasons of their own.
It was "suit up and show up" situation , all hands on deck , and the GOP failed to hear the call. ~ For them, it was only" business as usual" they made it in to to work, just in time to whine , saying , that they were not included, or they'd not read it, " but" their plan was better and cheaper.
The document it's self has been moving , changing , growing and srinking over the last 78 hours as both parties attempted to find common ground. It's been an athletic effort of unseen proportion.
So go figure?
There's not directly a single dollar in it for me ~ but I'm well pleased
Dance | |
|
sorot
|
Joined: 10/18/2008
Msg: 178 | |
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/13/2009 8:40:38 PM |
Like Sorot, I am a former citizen of Soviet Union. I have seen with my own eyes what the Obama-style policies would do. That is why I am so scared. I have been at the end of that road.
Pure BS and you know it there is little comparison in Russian and American politics.
Confusing biggest economy and supposedly strongest military even though Russia has lot more nuclear missiles with American exclusivity and having arrogance instead of seeing what's going on around and not learning from experience of me and Yevgeni coming from living in both systems and obviously having something to compare IS THE BIGGEST BS FROM YOUR SIDE.
American "exclusivity" attitude has done so much ideological damage as worshipping Paris Hilton and Brittany Spears along with McDonalds.
As I said, many times being bigger has nothing to do with being the best. Also, other developed immigration-based and young countries as Canada and Australia do not have ridiculous differences from the rest of developed countries. There is national economy and there is a world economy, and both of them are very related. There is national peculiarities of advancement and there are common worldwide historical trends and as history showed with former USSR, estrangement and wide verietion will bring problems.
Politicians use the attitude of people like you which is nothing is than a delusion, sell you their cheap ideas, to inspire you so that you will go and elect them. However, after staying in the office for couple of years, having all these wider opportunities for credit or any business venture, having so many doors open for them and become reach, the steal the money of folks like you and leave. Everything is left only on their good will, but if they manipulate you right at the beginning, there would be no much decency and good will at the first place. And , yes future generations suffer from the folks like them too.
As to GDP, yes it does include even military spending and governmental spending, so it is not a relevant term to discuss the issue here. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/13/2009 8:51:34 PM |
Now let me ask you something, if your boss told you to do something and you are interested in keeping your job and serving the greater good , would it be on his desk Monday if it's with-in your power?
I would tell him very bluntly if he wanted done right so his a$$ doesn't end up in a sling, he would get it when it's done correctly with all the liabilities and pitfalls studied and revised so it has the ability to produce the desired effect.
Every single politican with their hand in this bill, including the President, works for US. We pay their salary and we elect them to represent us and it's time for them to pay attention. It wasn't that long ago a bill was rushed through Congress even though the majority of people in this country didn't agree with it. I will say it was aptly named, all it managed to do is toss a TARP over the mess. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/13/2009 10:16:58 PM |
Every single politican with their hand in this bill, including the President, works for US. We pay their salary and we elect them to represent us and it's time for them to pay attention. It wasn't that long ago a bill was rushed through Congress even though the majority of people in this country didn't agree with it.
Well Your Royal Hinee, would you like this 1100 page document on your desk first thing Monday morning?
I wish not to argue with you for the speed, ~ It's been 5 months in the making, It's general outline exposed on national TV in October. Obama warned all, he was going to hit the ground in a hard run, time was something we did not have luxury of. ~ If you are waiting on Obama , I'd say you are backing up.
As far as the TARP fiasco ~ yes ! I'm still pissed about that ~ there was no warning , We are told a failure to act would bring the world down ~ I was ready to say ~ fine with me ~ come on down where I'm at! You get use to it in 7 or 8 years.
please understand these are two separate events, under separate administration, in two separate years ~ and related only in the fact you can see thousands of little bags of money with winds on them flying away.
Dance | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/13/2009 10:29:59 PM |
Politicians use the attitude of people like you which is nothing is than a delusion, sell you their cheap ideas, to inspire you so that you will go and elect them. However, after staying in the office for couple of years, having all these wider opportunities for credit or any business venture, having so many doors open for them and become reach, the steal the money of folks like you and leave. Everything is left only on their good will, but if they manipulate you right at the beginning, there would be no much decency and good will at the first place. And , yes future generations suffer from the folks like them too.
I don't know who the "people like you" are but I do know such people, ~ and there numbers are huge! ~ and few truer words never spoken.
That said ~ I refuse to be a perpetucial cynic of government and feel there is always some honorable men and women working in the spirit of love of mankind , attempting to improve our sorry lot.
Dance | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/13/2009 10:34:11 PM | It's large. It won't stimulate much more than arguements. It is a very large waste of money which we don't have. And I fear it will have some unintented but very negative consequences long term. But, in the short run it will cause me to revise my 5 month old predicition of 7% unemployment by year end (well that was good) and heading to more than 10% by year end 09. This should keep unemployment down to 9.5 - 10.0%
However, this package should not be the focus of your attention. What happens with the second half of the TARP, the TALF and the Treasury plan for "toxic assets" is where the real money is. | |
|
sorot
|
Joined: 10/18/2008
Msg: 183 | |
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/13/2009 11:40:39 PM |
I don't know who the "people like you" are but I do know such people, ~ and there numbers are huge! ~ and few truer words never spoken.
That said ~ I refuse to be a perpetucial cynic of government and feel there is always some honorable men and women working in the spirit of love of mankind , attempting to improve our sorry lot.
Dance
People who merely get excited my images created, false promises delivered and inspired by useless speeches of politicians which are mainly for pushing the right buttons of the public instead of delivering a quality message. One of the major "cornerstone" of these manipulation was the "American Exclusivity".
Yes, some of them may even believe and devoted in what they preach and inspire. IN history we have an example of Hitler, he was a believer of "exclusivity of German nation" too. He was telling that German nation was the smartest of all, while facts in average IQ tests show completely different. The same with "White Supremacy" nonsense. I still can't get how come W got elected, when he talks, one can see that he is just not a smart person. May be the "Bush" name. I can't get who is Paris Hilton, what has she done for her to be so popular - well just a name Hilton. Someone could be born retarded from Hilton family, bus as long as you have a name and or create image, and in addition to that know how to inspire people, the fake fame is right there. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/14/2009 5:07:29 AM | That said ~ I refuse to be a perpetucial cynic of government and feel there is always some honorable men and women working in the spirit of love of mankind , attempting to improve our sorry lot.
Thanks for that Dance. I think that the fact that he spent a year studing how to get us on track and had a team of advisers go over the budget line by line is a good start. I understand that work is not a job but we do have things that need to be done and I see no problem with getting as much work done until the privet sector can offer jobs again. It will give us a bit of flex time as the bigs burn off waste. | |
|
sorot
|
Joined: 10/18/2008
Msg: 185 | |
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/14/2009 11:41:07 AM | For being a great president three major things are required by priority: strong desire to help people and devoted to his work (Obama has it like JFK and FDR), ability to do that (JFK didn't have much, FDR had a lot, Obama has a lot), experience and previous background (Obama doesn't have much experience, but will get it in a year or two, he doesn't have perfect background).
As to stimulus package again, it is similar to taking pills from depression, something Americans do a lot, instead of finding out what is the main cause of that depression, eliminating it at the first place to avid it. It's a short term solution to make some stability however it will harm the economy tremendously in the long run. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/14/2009 12:05:45 PM |
For being a great president three major things are required by priority: strong desire to help people and devoted to his work (Obama has it like JFK and FDR), ability to do that (JFK didn't have much, FDR had a lot, Obama has a lot), experience and previous background (Obama doesn't have much experience, but will get it in a year or two, he doesn't have perfect background).
President Obama used what ever experience he had to organize a staff and a nation, with out having a strong ability to organize he would have never been the democratic nominee for president nor would he have won the presidency, he does have a lot of on the job learning to do but he is smart enough to know that he does not have a need to know every thing, he has demonstrated this by surrounding his self with good people, I think it is a strength to know that you don’t have to have all of the answers
As to stimulus package again, it is similar to taking pills from depression, something Americans do a lot, instead of finding out what is the main cause of that depression, eliminating it at the first place to avid it. It's a short term solution to make some stability however it will harm the economy tremendously in the long run.
So in your opinion what do you think the main cause of the recession? I think it is the deregulation of commodities and banking, your right we have to recognize why and do what needs to be done to ensure that it does not happen again. I am not going to place blame on either party but I will say that oversight was lacking at all levels of government, it’s impossible to believe that no one in government saw this coming and could not under stand what was going on. The people we elected stood back and watched as Wall Street and the Large Banking institutions stripped this countries economy to the bones
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/08/60minutes/main4707770_page3.shtml
Standing back sitting on our hands and hoping that the economy would some how miraculously heal itself in my opinion would be like watching the waves hit the shores and hoping that they would stop. I would have liked to have seen some things done differently but over all I think the package is probably about the best we could have had enacted. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/14/2009 2:11:57 PM |
Well Your Royal Hinee, would you like this 1100 page document on your desk first thing Monday morning?
Why not? I’ve had worse. The Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 aka Hope for Homeowners act is one. We dubbed that one the Hopeless for Homeowners Act before Bush’s signature was dry. I will have the opportunity at work to pursue sections of this bill, to see how it is going to affect the company I work for. I will say there is less redundancy on the Federal level than I’ve seen on the State level.
I haven’t yet read the criteria on how State funds are being decided but the media buzz here is Michigan is supposed to get 18 Billion. I can guarantee that Granholm and every member of the House and Senate are not going to be dragged before Congress and grilled like the B3 was and the financial industry should have been. I know it’s supposed to be used for certain things, Medicaid, education and so on but if there is the slightest loop hole in the wording, the State Government will find a way to use it for pet projects.
Before anyone jumps down my throat, I’ve lived in Michigan my entire life and am a former factory rat and UAW member. 10 years ago I saw the way the manufacturing industry was heading thanks to Federal Trade agreements, idiotic CEO’s and greedy Unions. Michigan has always been dependant on the manufacturing industry for revenue and kept spending levels the same even as that sector dwindled. Engler, the House and Senate did nothing during his time to make Michigan competitive with just the surrounding states and attract service based industries here to make up for the loss of jobs and revenue from the manufacturing sector. Granholm and the current Government (sans newbies) have done nothing to make us competitive nor have they made any cuts to the budget even though we are hemorrhaging people. Things have gotten worse under Granholms reign with increased spending and increased taxes on a dwindling tax base. Hell, they had to offer Hollywood a 40% tax break to lure them here.
How does the State of Michigan deserve this amount when they’ve done nothing to help themselves as opposed to another state that has done everything they could to live within their means and are genuinely hurting because of the recession? | |
|
sorot
|
Joined: 10/18/2008
Msg: 188 | |
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/14/2009 3:01:12 PM |
So in your opinion what do you think the main cause of the recession? I think it is the deregulation of commodities and banking, your right we have to recognize why and do what needs to be done to ensure that it does not happen again. I am not going to place blame on either party but I will say that oversight was lacking at all levels of government, it’s impossible to believe that no one in government saw this coming and could not under stand what was going on.
People were talking on these boards about recession more than a year ago before it hit. You think politicians didn't know it? Of course they did. Most presidents are not informed properly about what is going on. They have lots of misinformation or not completely correct information for some reason not known to me. Also, recession are a normal part of development. That's just a trend of life, sometimes things are good, then they cant go all the way up, there is a time when growth either stops or regresses. Pretty much like inflation. Government has always to print a little more money to make sure there is no shortage of it.
One thing I don't get about this stimulus package is that why they want to save big businesses. Not all big businesses are in trouble. Also, 84% of the jobs in the USA are created by small businesses. So, these big businesses which would collapse due to this crisis will result in emergance of new, better ones on their place. Or, some of them will restructure themselves and cope with hardships. Yes, in the short run it will bring lots of problems, but in 2-3 years it will result in an exponential growth of the economy since say if AIG gets out of business, a huge field will open for another, better company to take its place, which is natural.
The example of the same Germany. After the WWII and collapse virtually all the country, they rebuilt everything within five year and became a leading economy which was much better than before. I wonder why it can't be applied here, in USA. What's wrong it a little collapse can happen right now, and then it will start boosting economy? Yes, there will be huge unemployment, there will be high level of instablity at first, but after that, things will go much better. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/14/2009 6:01:19 PM |
I wonder why it can't be applied here ... For one, Germany did not outsource a lot of it's employment and as a result it was in total destruction. It had been basically physically destroyed ... everything ... buildings, farms, factories ... it was gone. They had no place to go but forward. One only has to look at what East Germany looked like after the Berlin wall tumbled in order to see the difference between the two ... like day and night. I was there, I saw it.
The only thing that will give our nation it's jobs back is to stop outsourcing employment to foreign countries. But we signed contracts with those countries and promised them we'd give them our jobs. At the same time, we imported hundreds of thousands (actually millions) of immigrants (refugees as well) and put more than half of them on Welfare ... and the rest we gave all kinds of government money to highly educate them. In the mean time, we denied all kinds of education to our citizens.
It's kind of like giving America away and at the same time the "dumbing down of our own citizens". Our own citizens can barely compete anymore with all the "educated immigrants" and now that we've given away the type of employment the dumbazzes can do ... well we already know what the result of that is.
It's too late to take it back now ... eh? | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/14/2009 9:44:04 PM | "The only thing that will give our nation it's jobs back is to stop outsourcing employment to foreign countries. "
That's a big part of the equation. The other part is the balance of trade - which brings us back to the 1930s recession which needed the job creation to tournaquet the situation but that had to be followed by the Marshall plan to create markets for US goods and services. The outsourcing and the Finance markets as the voratious gluttons of debt are two components we didn't have in the last full blown depression. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/14/2009 9:53:45 PM | "84% of the jobs in the USA are created by small businesses. "
What's your source on this. It doesn't make sense. A small business has the owner/partner/associates and generally very few employees ... that's why its 'small' Large businesses have thousands of employees - tens of thousands. When a large business has to lay off 15,000 employees do you know how many small businesses it would take to lay off that many? | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/14/2009 10:09:52 PM | Not quite 84% but pretty close. 78.9% according to SBA.gov's latest available data.
From SBA.gov
How many new jobs do small firms create?
Since the mid-1990s, small businesses have created 60 to
80 percent of the net new jobs. In the most recent year with
data (2005), employer firms with fewer than 500 employees
created 979,102 net new jobs, or 78.9 percent. Meanwhile,
large firms with 500 or more employees added 262,326 net
new jobs or 21.1 percent. For an in-depth look at employment
dynamics by firm size from 1989 to 2005, see www.sba.gov/
advo/research/data.html#us.
What is small firms’ share of employment?
Small businesses employ about half of U.S. workers. Of
116.3 million nonfarm private sector workers in 2005, small
firms with fewer than 500 workers employed 58.6 million and
large firms employed 57.7 million. Firms with fewer than 20
employees employed 21.3 million. While small firms create
60 to 80 percent of net new jobs, their share of employment
remains steady since some firms grow into large firms........... | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/14/2009 11:08:23 PM | you have to be careful when forming opinions on stats.
often that might well be all you have access to, or you are accepting them face value and don't wish to go the extra miles and validated them.
so often we hear and read things that just don't fit the picture. Saddly, that happens a lot!
Down deep I carry the belief that small business is the backbone of our ecomony by virtue of sheer numbers.
But this mis-information "attack" I speak of is applied to things to sway opinion, hide the facts and paint much prettier pictures.
Case in point , I was screaming that we were in the tanks for a good 8 years, yet few listened.
I wasn't aware thats to deliver information required you to tell major whopper lies.
The market for the truth being very suppressed to this very day. It seems little has changed since Clement's day when he made the observation that , " A lie can travel around the world before the truth can put on it's shoes"
I'm leary of anyone that uses a lot of stats and holds tight to forcefull arguement, they are depending on too many "others" for their firm convictions.
I do know unemployment stats fail to include many ,many people thats just gave up, it's very easy to get flustrated with the system and drop off the radar. I've been unemployed since 1987 and no ones bothered to count me. I've never filed in my life, I take it , thats how you get counted? What I do know about it is from others involved.
So' use your stats, but before you jump out there and and hitch you waggon up to the ideas you wish to embrace and defend, double check your `work.
We` are experiencing a bumper crop of misinformation for certain areas of government , their political machine, news affilations and supporters.
Once a lie is heard three times , it tends to turn into the truth someway.
Dance | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/14/2009 11:54:09 PM |
What is small firms’ share of employment?
Small businesses employ about half of U.S. workers. Of
116.3 million nonfarm private sector workers in 2005, small
firms with fewer than 500 workers employed 58.6 million and
large firms employed 57.7 million. Firms with fewer than 20
employees employed 21.3 million. While small firms create
60 to 80 percent of net new jobs, their share of employment
remains steady since some firms grow into large firms...........
Let’s say the numbers are correct, what difference would it make? Tax cuts have not generated the employment needed, over 30 million Americans live at or below the poverty level, the stats show 5 million out of work and that only reflects the number of people presently drawing unemployment not the total number unemployed or under employed,
Since the unemployment number continues up the small business sector can not provide employment for the number of people being laid off, this will just continue and escalate the recession we are in leading to more lay offs and higher numbers of unemployed and people living at or below the poverty level
We need jobs whether they are in the small business sector or large businesses does not really make a difference what does make a difference is the pay scale, we don’t need to increase the numbers of working poor in the USA,
President Obama’s plan has the potential to increase the numbers employed both through short term employment 1 to 5 years and longer term employment through new technology.
We are headed in the right direction | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/15/2009 11:35:36 AM | yea, since the "rip roaring 80's" that the GOP seems to take so much pride in with it's stats and coroperate raider, hositile take overs and leveraged buy-outs, with Wall Street leading the way down the "Yellow Brick Road" America has been flooded with the under-employed or as some call the "working poor". This is where the GOP wishes to take us , the only problem is, it works only for a few. These few ,that look on the rest of the nation as somehow being a victim of our own underacheiving ways. Unworthy really mush consideration, Like 43, said once at an attendance ," It's good to be among the "haves and have mores". I find this very dishearting, disturbing and near sighted and in no way reflective of true American Values our founding father's had in mind.
It's only now that I realize that there will never be peace between these two opposing forces. Peace and coorperation will only come by the death of these ideas, I see nothing that might change this short of death it's self.
There is no interest in bipartianship by the GOP leadership. It all or nothing with them.
At least I now know it to be only what it is , just a dream.
Obama will never change this, no "good will" ever change it , it's a fight to the death.
so be it.
Dance | |
|
| |
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/16/2009 1:59:59 PM | well ~ I don't relish the idea of bubba being in the DNC either. ~
I say let the GOP keep them ~ we of the DCN have carried the baggage of Jesse Jackson, ( no offence, he was just never helpful) and the gay communite for years ~ ~ the GOP needs some weight to carry.
It's that or come forward with their own party, and quit riding coat tails. Call it the BYOBP ~ Bring your own Beer Party.
Dance | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/16/2009 10:58:59 PM | "Since the mid-1990s, small businesses have created 60 to
80 percent of the net new jobs. In the most recent year with
data (2005), employer firms with fewer than 500 employees
created 979,102 net new jobs, or 78.9 percent. Meanwhile,
large firms with 500 or more employees added 262,326 net
new jobs or 21.1 percent."
The key to your stat is that it refers to 'new' jobs. Whether the business is expanding or not. All you've said is that small businesses are expanding while large businesses as a sum of all large businesses are not. Do you realize that according to your figure in our entire economy only 1.2 million jobs were created in 2005. Look to see how many new graduates entered the job market in 2005. We didn't make enough new jobs to hire the new workers.
However, the figure you used was not aligned with your prior post which was not about new jobs but about total jobs. 84% of workers do not work for small businesses. | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/17/2009 12:03:53 AM | Are you sure I was the one who originally threw the 84% figure out there? I don't recall it. I was backing up the fact that a lot of new jobs are created by small businesses. I just thought it was refering to new jobs being created, and that isn't even 84%, so if I was the one who originally put 84% out there, I must have been sleepposting.
I agree 84% of people don't work for small businesses. Wal Mart and McDonalds are the nations largest employers, and they sure aren't small. Does any know the percentage of the nation they employ? | |
|
| How do you really feel about this large stimulus package?
Posted: 2/17/2009 4:00:58 AM | I agree 84% of people don't work for small businesses. Wal Mart and McDonalds are the nations largest employers, and they sure aren't small. Does any know the percentage of the nation they employ?
No, they aren't the largest. Not even combined. The largest employer in the US is federal government, at 2.7 millions. Walmart is 1.4 million (US employees only). McDonalds is much smaller, although I can't find US numbers - just the worldwide ones. Probably 1/4 of Walmart.
According to statistics at SBA (small business administration), small business do create about 80% of employment. But, they employ about half the workforce. Why the difference? Because, according to SBA FAQ "While small firms create 60 to 80 percent of net new jobs, their share of employment remains steady since some firms grow into large firms as they create new jobs".
http://www.sba.gov/advo/stats/sbfaq.pdf | |
|
|
| Page 8 of 13
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 |
|
Home
login 
