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| | Is a DJ a musician?Page 6 of 9 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9) | | The gray area is where there are DJs who compose their own music, and DJs who play strictly other people's mixes or the top 40 or whatever. I completely respect a DJ that spins his own creation and adding extra elements that you wouldn't hear on an mp3 on your iPod. I personally think that the live aspect is more about the energy and the emotions evoked by the artists music, and not about whether or not he knows what a 6/4 time signature is. Hell I'd even dance to the guy who plays the top 40 all night. We could all sit behind our screens and bash who is and who isn't a musician but you need to experience it to judge it. It's controversial, but if you throw a rock at a wall and it makes a thud, that's music. If you scratch an old record, that's music. That's a real rough thought but I believe it to be true. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 8/27/2011 10:58:33 AM |
Absolutely not. It's like calling Britney Spears a musician (I LOVE her music, but she is an entertainer)
Musicians make their own original music, not sample from other talented musicians.
whose music did she sample? she has writing credits on half her albums. she certainly uses outside writers but doesn't exclude her from being a musician.
are cover bands musicians? they don't write their own stuff.
what about ozzy? he can't even play an instrument. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 8/27/2011 11:07:25 AM | "...Baby One More Time" is a song by American recording artist Britney Spears. The song was written and produced by Max Martin
"Toxic" is a song by American recording artist Britney Spears from her fourth album, In the Zone. It was released on January 12, 2004, by Jive Records as the second single from the album. Co-written and produced by Bloodshy & Avant, the song was initially offered to Kylie Minogue.
"I'm a Slave 4 U" is a song by American recording artist Britney Spears. The song was written and produced by Pharrell Williams and Chad Hugo, for Spears' third studio album, Britney (2001)
Any of her *hits* were not written by her. The songs she has writing credits for are not put out commercially for obvious reasons, and if there is one then her writing credit is nearly a formality.
Like I said before, she is awesome- but I don't consider her a musician. (have all but one of her albums!)
And oddly enough, yes cover bands are musicians. They play instruments. A bit of a loophole but it's true- it takes talent to do what they do.
Ozzy? Entertainer. And love him! | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 8/27/2011 1:12:59 PM | what you're saying is that singers aren't musicians. you're wrong.
or if you don't write your own songs you aren't a musician.
a musician is an artist who writes, performs, or creates music.
an artist using someone else's song isn't "sampling." if it's already been recorded it's called "covering". like what cover bands do. or many recoding artists.
sampling is when you incorporate a part of another song into your own.
k.w.
never wrong | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 8/27/2011 2:16:24 PM | Actually, depending on what jurisdiction you're in, singers aren't required to have musician federation membership. Some singers are musicians, some …rather decidedly; are not.
a musician is an artist who writes, performs.
Loosely, but there are sub-branches, many songwriters/composers don't consider themselves "musicians", not when the lexical semantic implies expertise on an actual musical instrument. Not all composers are performers and vice versa. Some producers are quite involved with arrangements, key choices, and actual writing, …but don't actually play (which is why they get their own name).
or creates music.
Which, if you toss your lot in with those who claim that any who merely make noise (throwing a rock at the wall) can claim to be a musician? Well, I guess there's no point to even discussing music at all. I suppose you can if you play fast and loose with definitions, but that's just equivocating.
Music has quantitative and qualitative aspects and terms of reference that define it, it's not just "making sounds". Music is an art, as well as a craft and a science. A musician, is a person who has acquired skills in order to practice the craft in all it's minimal basic aspects on a musical instrument.
Here's where we get down to brass tacks, take the turntables out of the context of programmed loops and say, …into a jazz quartet trading eights on "Giant Steps", or, even a simple vamp that has meter changes; …and he's screwed. At that point he's limited to just scratching, …or throwing a rock at a wall.
Hell, take away the electricity, and let's see them play music "unplugged".
A musician can…
Some DJ's are musicians, …but that's because they can also play instruments, and aren't merely "programmers" or "technicians".
sampling is when you incorporate a part of another song into your own.
Not quite the same thing, "incorporate a part of another song" could mean any number of things, not the least of which is an essential aspect of jazz improvisation called "reharmonization". Sampling is just editing a recorded passage of music (or sounds) to a quantized duration and saving it as a sound file.
A skilled DJ, with knowledge of the craft (and science) of music, who can also create his own source material (or play with other musicians if need be), is a musician …who can also work the 'tables, …not just a DJ. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 8/27/2011 3:47:24 PM | | So if noise isn't music, then why is one of John Cages most famous pieces is "4'33", a 3 movement composition of "silence", which in reality is actually noise? He strived to compose something out of the norm, something beautiful by chance. You're merely viewing music through a social view, and not as an abstract artform like much of the arts evolve from. If a person can create something that evokes emotion, it's art. It's music. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 8/27/2011 3:53:44 PM |
If a person can create something that evokes emotion, it's art. It's music.
That's a very broad, and contestable brush you're painting on not just music, but art. That same argument has been used when artists paint with human waste and pass it off as an art piece.
Maybe I'm being narrow-minded and need to open up my avenues a bit more, so I'm going to take a step back and reflect a bit; I might be wrong on this one. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 8/28/2011 6:10:26 AM | So if noise isn't music, then why is one of John Cages most famous pieces is "4'33", a 3 movement composition of "silence", which in reality is actually noise?
I suppose baldness is a hair colour as well?
He strived to compose something out of the norm, something beautiful by chance.
By NOT having any music present.
You're merely viewing music through a social view,
No, that's what you're doing by trying to use Cage's piece of "performance art", which BTW, even a coma patient can play on any musical instrument, …by not playing it; as a means to equivocate "musical instrument"/"music".
and not as an abstract artform like much of the arts evolve from.
…and "not collecting stamps" is a hobby?
If a person can create something that evokes emotion, it's art. It's music.
So, if a wino vomits all over you, upsetting and disgusting you, …he's just "being a musician"?
Nice try, …no sale. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 8/28/2011 8:15:27 AM | | Throw as many analogies as you want at it, the door swings both ways. The essence of music is the timbral qualities behind the notes, and ambience is an expansion on that field. If you think music always has to be pleasing to the ears, you're just being close minded. Music is trying to move forward artistically, and that kind of negativity is what's stopping it. If DJing is in an experimental stage of becoming an accepted art on its own, I welcome it. Whether they reach the end of that path or not, I consider them musicians. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 8/28/2011 8:46:38 AM | Throw as many analogies as you want at it, the door swings both ways.
Not if the analogy is a false equivilence, no.
The essence of music is the timbral qualities behind the notes, and ambience is an expansion on that field.
There is no "essence of music", there is a set of limiting factors that describe it, within its frame of reference. If you want to simplify it down to essences, you'll still have to deal with three distinct facets pertaining to its performance; tonality, time and amplitude dynamics. And two very important aspects to its creation; derivation/synthesis.
Turntables, by design are limited in the ability to negotiate tonality and time as independent dynamic properties = not a musical instrument.
If you think music always has to be pleasing to the ears, you're just being close minded.
Nice straw man/ad hominem combo, …though I don't think it'll chart.
I neither said anything of the sort, nor do I think it.
Music is trying to move forward artistically
Music always has, and always will "move forward artistically". This is explicit in "derivation/synthesis" (BTW, "trying"; is just a meaningless red herring).
and that kind of negativity is what's stopping it.
What negativity? You may as well apply that l'il well poisoning to those who allow for equivocation to hold back progress. At least there the dismissal can be substantiated.
If DJing is in an experimental stage of becoming an accepted art on its own, I welcome it.
I've worked with (and taught music [on instruments] to) turntable-ists, I've made no claim here that it isn't an "art", or that it can't contribute an "effect" to musical pieces (so can an audio engineer using an LA2A compressor, but that does not make him a "musician", or the compressor a "musical instrument").
Whether they reach the end of that path or not, I consider them musicians.
You can call anything what you want to call it, but lacking anything other than jejune expression and fallacies, …you've not backed up your position. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 8/28/2011 5:25:33 PM | | Well I'm not above accepting defeat in an argument, and I can't help but agree with you in some areas. I will however continue to live in blissful ignorance seeing DJ's as musicians the same as myself. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 8/30/2011 4:39:30 PM | """"""""""A DJ is not a musician jeez a drummer barely is."""""""'
Tommy Lee is laughing his way to the bank.
So is Al Van Halen
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/2/2011 5:46:56 AM | there are DJs who just spin records, and there are DJ's who sample records to create new records. the former i would not consider a musician, the latter i would. i see DJ compositions to be music's version of collage works in visual art. DJ is a broad term and I think the truly talented artists in this genre (DJ Krush, DJ Shadow for example) do themselves a disservice by attaching the label infront of their name, but perhaps it is a proud salute to how they started.
there is also a huge difference between the complexity of art/work of those who would call themselves a dj. a traditional hip hop dj just loops records and does the 'wicka wicka' as it was called in this thread lol. scratching is an art form in itself- watch some dj championship videos on youtube (improvising drum beats by scratching 2 records to individual drum shots is damn impressive). but the creative/artist dj uses many many records as well as samples for a song and writes beats basslines melodies with drum machines or synths, mixed in with loops, or extremely edited loops. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/2/2011 6:51:48 PM | dj's that sample other artists are PLAYING SOMEONE ELSE'S MUSIC!
same as the dj in the peeler bar.
i might call a "wiki wiki" scratcher guy an artist but not a musician.
k.w.
former dj | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/4/2011 2:17:09 AM | A musician is a person who composes, performs, or creates music in some way. Now, whether or not that music is purely composed by that DJ, or it is mixed and mashed up/cut from other people's own compositions is not important: it is STILL MUSIC, therefore the person who creates it is a musician (the DJ).
Also, never confuse the quality of music with the idea that the person who made it is not a musician. If you think it is noise, or just so terrible, it doesn't mean that it isn't music..... there are so many people out there who state something along the lines of *ugh that is so terribly sounding, how can anyone consider that music*.
Well it is music. Even if it isn't quality music that was crafted carefully and with purely musical intentions. "Talent" has NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with holding the label of musician.
EXAMPLE: If a child is banging a ladle on a metal pot for 5 minutes with the conscious intention of rhythm, it is being a musician for 5 minutes.
EXAMPLE #2: The sound of rain falling on a tin roof and the boom of thunder are noises that are non-musical because there was no one there to create them - they occurred naturally. If I was to sample these noises and throw them together (even in the simplest and easiest way with no technique) I am being a musician.
P.S. I have studied music, am classically trained, and am currently a professional musician.
Thanks. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/4/2011 6:34:50 AM |
Also, never confuse the quality of music with the idea that the person who made it is not a musician. If you think it is noise, or just so terrible, it doesn't mean that it isn't music..... there are so many people out there who state something along the lines of *ugh that is so terribly sounding, how can anyone consider that music*.
Has anybody actually said this on the thread?
The sound of rain falling on a tin roof and the boom of thunder are noises that are non-musical because there was no one there to create them - they occurred naturally. If I was to sample these noises and throw them together (even in the simplest and easiest way with no technique) I am being a musician.
Another vote for "throw a rock at the wall "- get your union card.  | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/4/2011 8:51:42 AM |
Has anybody actually said this on the thread?
Who cares if anyone has said it yet? I'm saying it now. Every word of my response doesn't need to be directly correlated to anything that has been said before. I'm making a point.
Another vote for "throw a rock at the wall "- get your union card.
If I organized the sound of that rock hitting the wall to occur at a certain time and have a certain musical purpose, then yes it would be music. Just the sound of a rock hitting the wall without any kind of purpose or musical thought would be noise. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/4/2011 9:56:57 AM | Who cares if anyone has said it yet? I'm saying it now. Every word of my response doesn't need to be directly correlated to anything that has been said before. I'm making a point.
That point's been made a few times, it implies that the converse is somehow in play, …yet no one's expressed the claim. So, …what's the point?
If I organized the sound of that rock hitting the wall to occur at a certain time and have a certain musical purpose, then yes it would be music.
What if the musical purpose is unorganized random sounds?
Just the sound of a rock hitting the wall without any kind of purpose or musical thought would be noise.
If the purpose is to "make music" , …and the minimum criteria of what music is is mere purpose, …and sound;
How do you differentiate between random sound (noise) and purposeful random sounds (music) by just listening?
There exists software to randomly generate music, by your definition, is a chimpanzee a musician if it knows what the consequences of clicking a button that generates random musical sounds, thus understands it's purpose?
How 'bout a rat? | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/4/2011 10:21:07 AM | musician: noun -
1.a person who makes music a profession, esp. as a performer of music.
2.any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.
Here's a logical way of looking at this question. If you consider a DJ a perfomer of music then he's a musician. He is getting paid at the parties or clubs he's at so he is a professional. He mixes his own music. (you're being naive if you think they only sample other people's music. Techno and house music have nothing to do with other people's music.) He is performing an art that appeals to a particular genre. Just because the dusty folks around here don't appreciate techno and house doesn't mean it's not music; music that DJs perform; that DJs get paid for.
According to the definition of musician, which you can debate when people start consulting your dictionary, drummers and singers are musicians. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/4/2011 10:36:55 AM | By definition {1}, both Laurens Hammond and Leo Fender are musicians by virtue of the instruments they designed and "made", …despite the fact that neither could play (even of their own design) any instruments and Hammond was tone-deaf (in the clinical sense).
By definition {2}, "skilled in music" is just as ambiguous, this could apply to a deaf person putting CD's into alphabetical order in a book store.
As there is no consensus on the definition of music, musician or musical instrument, …the words themselves convey little to no meaning. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/4/2011 10:42:29 AM | …despite the fact that neither could play (even of their own design) any instruments and Hammond was tone-deaf (in the clinical sense).
You're saying neither of them could perform ("neither could play"), therefore they do not fit the definition of musician. They aren't skilled in music. They're skilled I'm designing an instrument. I think you know the difference.
Everyone knows how to make a baby, but it doesn't mean they know how to deliver one. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/4/2011 10:48:38 AM | Your definition doesn't make "perform" an explicit necessity (See: "esp."). As for lexical sub-definitions, they aren't inclusive but contextual.
I think you know the difference.
Oh, I do, but I also know the difference between a subjective cite and a definitive one.
Also note: "skilled in" {2}, as applied; is purely subjective.
Further, how drummers and singers are classified is a red herring, the topic concerns "DJ's".
There are the obvious if/then propositions, some DJ's create their own source music and samples on musical instruments, this makes them a musician, not the turntable.
Is a turntable, alone …a musical instrument? | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/4/2011 10:56:42 AM | It's not my definition. You can take your debate up with Dictionary.com if you'd like. The definition is so much simpler than what you want it to be. You have a grandiose opinion of what a musician is when in fact it's not that complex. Someone who is skilled in music. It's not hard to be that. Techno is music. People buy it, dance to it and appreciate it. The DJ is the one making that music. You don't have to like it. That doesn't make it any less than your preference in music.
I'm glad you understand you're making a subjective statement rather than a definitive one, which you have no qualitative basis for. | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/4/2011 12:48:22 PM |
It's not my definition.
Your choice to employ it in order to base an argument on though...
You can take your debate up with Dictionary.com if you'd like.
Why, they aren't the ones trying to use it as an "appeal to" fallacy. 
You have a grandiose opinion of what a musician is when in fact it's not that complex.
Cite …please?
Specifically; my alleged "grandiose definition of what a musician is".
when in fact it's not that complex.
Actually, I think it's very simple. A musician; should be able to play music, either on an instrument or vocally with at least the minimal amount of skill to negotiate time/tempo/key/chord changes independent of each other (as well as independent of self-reference) during a performance.
Someone who is skilled in music. It's not hard to be that.
Okay, I'll bite, …what entails "skilled in music" to you?
Techno is music.
No, it's a music genre.
People buy it, dance to it and appreciate it.
People buy and dance to Alvin & the Chipmunks, …Alvin is not a musician.
The DJ is the one making that music.
Depending on what he did to contribute to the actual music, aside from spinning prerecorded music from other musicians.
If the designation "DJ" is in fact a "musician" by virtue of simply being a "DJ" alone. Why are there so many articles in musician federations and journals about competing with them for gigs?
I'm glad you understand you're making a subjective statement rather than a definitive one, which you have no qualitative basis for.
Ha! I see what you did there, so you've just shown you don't give a flyin f'ck about intellectual honesty, okay …no problem, I'll bite again -> cite?
But, if you want objective/qualitative, …turntables aren't included in category 5 of Hornbostel-Sachs classification or the Galphin Society's classification of musical instruments (I checked AMIS as well, not recognized there either). | |
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| Is a DJ a musician?
Posted: 9/4/2011 3:31:38 PM | I see this discussion is coming to an end rather quickly as you are now just picking at my reasoning rather than offering your own. My prose aren't suitable for you complex brain. You don't want to accept a simple word like "skilled" without it being broken down to the smallest compound, which is just a way of you setting up a debate as to whether "skilled" is an acceptable word. The majority of the English speaking world would not need that second grade word explained to them. But, you're prolly now wanting me to provide a citation to back my claim that it is a second grade word. When you start picking at the most minute details of the arguement you're done trying to reason. You're telling me to prove my case and not trying to prove yours.
You did provide one bit of reasoning that turntables are not officially accepted as instruments by a reputable source. That's fine, but the discussion is about DJs and not turntables. There is more than a turntable being used at the DJ booth.
<div class="quote">If the designation "DJ" is in fact a "musician" by virtue of simply being a "DJ" alone. Why are there so many articles in musician federations and journals about competing with them for gigs?
This seems like you're trying to reason with me, but I'll be honest, I don't get what this competition for gigs has to do with DJs being musicians. They are going to go to the gig and perform their music; get paid; people are going to like it.
The Alvin and the Chipmunks comment was pretty weak. You actually have to find a fictitious example to create an analogy?I use the term "analogy" lightly. I hardly see a comparison between cartoons a reality as being relevant. | |
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