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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 2:30:20 PM | Gwendolyn2008,
I think you miss understood what I said. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you. At any rate. Maybe I should have said IF she had offered to pay half ......I may have said it's OK, on the other hand, had I not enjoyed the date I probably would have let her pay half. Actually I didn't enjoy the second date with her, that's the sole reason I won't be asking her out again.
Another thing for those talking about first dates, I've learned not to do that, it's usually coffee or drinks...that simple. That was in my second post for clarity.But what I was asking was how about the second or third date. AND I thank you for those that have understood and offered the advice I was asking for.
Thanks verygeeneyes, I'm not frenzy dating however, actually I've become very selective. I was actually on two different dating sites before I joined POF, and have only become really active here since after the first of the year.
To rune3...am I worthy of love without my wallet? absolutely! Did you happen to read my second post? | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 2:59:29 PM | | OP, I have to concur with Gwendolyn and cdn-iceman on this, as you've established a monetary precedent on your first date and have had your chivalry exploited. To freedom condmend I guess. Now if you want to be nasty to this so called lady, you could point out to her that for a few extra dollars, you could procure a half decent escort for the evening and possibly have a better time. Anyway, you should have smelled the coffee sooner, and I certainly wouldn't advise you to pursue anything more with this woman. | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 3:10:18 PM |
had I not enjoyed the date I probably would have let her pay half.
Well OP know you now know how to gauge whether your enjoying yourself or not?
You just ask yourself whether your willing to shell out the money for the date.
You obviously like to impress your dates and you don't seem to be hurting for the long green. So I don't really understand why this is an issue. Unless your problem is you are having a lot of first dates and not a lot of second or third dates.
Maybe instead of going all out on the first date you can make it a progressive thing.
Work your way up to flowers and a expensive restaurant.
Then you won't feel like your wasting money on folks who aren't going to be sticking around. | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 3:21:59 PM | We are of a similar age, so I understand your difficulty. Here are a few things guys my age and I have done, and not done, to handle the situation.
It isn't a good idea to invite a mature woman to your home too quickly. We are a tad skittish about that sort of thing. When we feel comfortable about it, you will be invited to our home.
Bringing up going dutch sounds a little...uhmm...cheap. I know the younger ones do it, but they were reared with a different mindset.
Until you know you would like to invest time, energy, and money in a relationship, you can always arrange dates before or after a traditional time for a meal. You can invite someone to dessert and coffee, "I know a place that makes a cheesecake to die for. Would you care to join me for dessert and coffee Friday night?". Any woman of my age understands what you mean.
You can invite someone for an activity and a light bite to eat afterwards, "Hey, you want to go play darts (shoot pool, sing kareoke), and get a light bite to eat later?" Once again, women of my age realize that means no big ticket meals or dates.
By the way, after the second date, she should realize it's her turn to treat you. Hot chocolate, ice cream, a wine tasting, anything at all to let you know she is interested. | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 3:30:03 PM | You're in my neck of the woods... there are so many places you can go where you can get to know someone.
I recommend, parks... I love Deceptions Pass (beautiful). I also like to go to Edmonds and watch the Ferry come and go (see, water). Mukilteo has covered picnic benches and you can build a fire on the beach if you so choose. If you want to be a little different take a date to the Fremont Troll and take pictures and bring a picnic lunch. Most of these options are free or close to it. It gives you ample opportunity to talk and get to know each other. Plus, if you want to stop by and have a drink there are plenty of taverns you can stop in that won't cost you a lot of money.
I've had many 1st (and last) dates at Tully's (I think the local barista's know me now) and Starbucks. But those are normally during the week when we're both pressed for time. I also like a cute little diner down the street from me that if the coffee date is going well - we'll go to (again, me paying my way).
BTW - the last $100 date I had I wore jeans and a blouse. It was at Arnie's in Mukilteo and he refused my money (I was fully prepared to pay for my half and then some). It was the last time I went out with him, but not for that reason. | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 3:30:12 PM | | The woman to me sounds like a gold digger. I've never seen a guy spend $100 for dinner on any of my dates. We went to places like Old Country Buffet or IHOP and I was fine with that. If she appreciates you she would not expect you to spend alot for a date. | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 3:38:25 PM |
....At any rate, I'm tired of spending $100. on dinners...even with a second, or possibly third date. Oh, and the date wasn't all that good, said she was tired. I'm probably not going to ask her out again.....
Lonesomerick... I feel your pain (as I know many do)...
1st... Nix the flowers and expensive restaurants, especially on a first date... First dates, when it comes right down to it, are interviews... a test of the waters... More time than not, you're going to know within 5 minutes if there's any chemistry or interest in dating this person.
2nd... Lunch dates are great... There's no drinking, there's usually limited time (as both have to get back to work), and YOU have to eat anyway.... Find a casual, fun, but nice restaurant where it'll be easy to talk..
3rd... NO DUTCH TREAT... It comes off as being cheap... For the first several dates, I just assume that I'm paying... Even if she offers to pay her half, while it's a nice offer, I will generally pay anyway, EVEN IF it's with someone I know I have no intentions on seeing again.
4th... Dinner Dates... Pick a casual but fun restaurant with reasonable prices... DON'T ORDER ALCOHOL AT FIRST... order a soda, juice, water, etc.... If you don't order liquor, chances are she won't either... ESPECIALLY if you can tell there's no chemistry or attraction, stick with non-alcoholic beverages.... IF, you're hitting it off, and you so chose, THEN suggest a wine, beer, mixed drinks, etc.... Drinks easilyDOUBLE what otherwise might have been a very reasonably priced meal.
5th... If you're meeting for a drink,...If you're almost immediately doubting there's any potential (as which often happens)... order drinks but NURSE yours... She's not going to want to appear to be a "lush" so generally she's not going to outpace you... After your half hour or so (if there's no chemistry/connection)... be courteous, tell her it was a pleasure meeting her, and you're "gone"... If you're having a good time, order more, etc...
Gotta run... Best wishes. | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 3:50:32 PM | | That's a lot of dating!! Which leads me to the conclusion that there's not much communication exchanged with the person beforehand. There are all kinds of threads here on people wanting to Email once or twice and then go out on that rush to meet. It's why I like more communication beforehand. In that communication you can state what you've run into before, that you would like to meet for coffee, tea, or whatever to get to know a bit more about each other and state that it's wound up being an expensive proposition in the past because you were trying to do "old school" dating in the new and not so improved new dating world. Orrrrrr...state something even in your profile with respect to what you've come up against in the past and be upfront and say the first meeting will be to meet the person, not to empty your wallet. I, personally, don't find communicating those sort of things stating you're cheap. I find it to be an expression of how you honestly feel. Arrrrrrgh...the pretenses and camouflage of the dating world, huh? In fact, mark this thread and tell your future potential dates to have a read and see what they think of the situation. | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 3:56:00 PM | Also, allow me to disagree with the "If you ask, you pay," pholosophy.
If I ask a girl out, she's gonna go in on it. She can also have input on where we eat, if that's what we're gonna do. Just because I asked, however, doesn't mean that I float the bill. That's ridiculous. If everyone adhered to that, only the rich guys and gals would be dating.
I think, generally, this idea is put out by those who are anticipating being asked out a lot. That way, it isn't their fault for not paying and ditching the guy as soon as the bill comes and they can do it over and over again thinking, "Well, he asked me. He was stupid to. I wouldn't have gone for it in the first place. But I got a meal out of it. *burp*"
Also, I am not saying everyone who subscribes to the above theory to be in it for a free dinner. I just find the whole thing suspicious.
As far as ways to bring it up, just bring it up. Matter of fact. If you get all worried about how she's gonna take it, then she's going to hear that in your voice. Just put it out there as a fact. "Hey, we're gonna split the bill, ok?" If she's not ok with that, then she can not be ok with it somewhere else. There are plenty of women out there who are and they aren't out for a free meal. | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 4:24:04 PM | lonesomerick..you need to be honest..if she's really into you, she will understand that you don't want to foot that kind of a bill every time you go out. Maybe suggest doing something a little less expensive and a little more fun...if she gets upset or doesn't want to go out again, you have your answer...I know this a huge cliche but there ARE so many more fish in the sea...live and learn hun... good luck | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 4:40:46 PM | My friend, you need a little restraint with picking such expensive places for first meets.
Now, I've always sortof lived in 'exclusive' areas, where dinners can easily cost 100 bucks or more.
But, as in many towns, there are always other options.
Little family owned restaurants, mexican food places, great coffee shops, and/ or a walk downtown or at the beach.
I do agree, that if I ask a woman out, I would never go into the 'let's go dutch treat' thing. It's just yucky and it does sound cheap. Having said that, every woman I have ever taken out has offered to pay, or to leave a tip. Most humans are very fair about this, I find.
And, other women, well, we might just buy a hunk of cheese, grab a couple of waters, and go walk or lay on the beach....or stroll through the city at night. It doesn't have to break you to 'meet someone'.
And, I can think of 10 quite little places right in my town for a quiet Friday night together where we could talk.....all very reasonable.
Sounds like you hooked up with a couple of dating 'pro's.....who might not be that into you....but , they sure know where the top flite restaurants are.
I'd tone it down a bit there guy, or else you might go 'broke' just trying to meet someone.
regards
Kimbo********************************************** | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 4:45:00 PM | So many interesting points of view here!
I can't speak for the ladies in general, or for those of my "mid-40's generation", but I can speak for myself. I'm mighty old-fashioned in my ways, but personally, I would not be remotely offended by a request to go dutch or split the bill or however one cares to phrase it. Realistically, for those people who are here dating in search of the "right one", you have to anticipate there'll be a handful of dates with different men/women before you find one you click with. I know I certainly could not afford to finance all of them on my own, and I certainly wouldn't expect the men to feel any differently. With that in mind, I have no issues with paying my way. And my preference is to clarify that ahead of the first meet, when you're making the plans for it. It's incredibly awkward to wait and address that when the check arrives. If I ask a man out, I'm always fully prepared to pick up the tab, cuz hey, ya never know if you'll need to. At the same time, tho, I have been known to say something to the effect of "so that we don't have to worry about any "financial pressure" clouds hanging over our get-together" or a straight-up "just so you know, I'll be paying my own way. That way if we find we don't click, you don't feel like you got taken". So I say if you feel dutch is the way to go, then by all means say so when you are making your plans to meet. In this day and age, I think us gals are plenty capable of fending for ourselves.
P.S. Being the old-fashioned girl I am, I thought the flowers were a sweet touch - just my opinion | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 5:10:01 PM | Not much more I could add, but you should take note that the majority of the women prefer not to discuss who pays before a date. Most of us will offer to split the bill, but quite frankly if you're inviting, you should pay. This isn't ladies night out where we all split the check. If I ask someone out, I plan on paying. I don't suggest places that are out of my budget either.
Again, I cannot stress enough that if you make the decision to ask someone out, you should have an idea in mind of where you want to eat. Ask someone if they want Thai food and know it will be fairly cheap, even in Seattle. Lunch is rarely over $20 for two. Happy hour appetizers and drinks shouldn't be more than that either. | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 5:12:36 PM | I agree with the twenty or so posters who said that talking about splitting the costs will not help you look good. What I like to do is suggest things at slightly "off" hours in the beginning. Meet for coffee at 4:30 PM........if the conversation goes well, suggest getting "a bite to eat." A woman knows this means a simple burger platter at a pub or a sandwich somewhere. If she is interested, she will say "yes." The second date can be along the lines of a museum. Then, suggest for a third date "I would like to take you somewhere SPECIAL for dinner. I like these restaurants....(name three)." Chances are
she will know one and approve. By using the word special, you are more likely to communicate the point that it is not something you can do all the time. That it is special for you also.
If you get together a fourth time, chances are you really like each other. Possibly in the "cooking at my place and rent a video phase." It is possible that she will suggest going somewhere and footing the bill. Then you can say "Great! But I pay next time we go someplace nice." And in a perfect world, this could happen! | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 5:19:02 PM | Just speaking for myself (not for all women)...I'm from the "old" generation, but I prefer going dutch - in fact, it's not a preference, I insist. And it's something that would have been discussed long before an actual date, so it's a moot point.
I have raised both my daughters the same way, and my granddaughter didn't even know (until I told her) that men were supposed/expected to pay for women "in the old days":)
As far as $100 dinners...hmm. My granddaughter and I go on dinner dates regularly and I never spend more than $50 for our meals , and that's including tip, with our average "date" costing me between $ 30-40.
Once or twice a year, we'll go for a lobster dinner, but even then, it's under $100 - mind you, I don't drink, and we often order water instead of pop to help keep costs down (and for health reasons also).
This whole "who pays" thing drives my nuts to be honest (not as nuts as the when to have sex thingy but close)...for the life of me, I can't understand where all this angst and confusion comes from.
Regardless of who believes in what and who and when, find someone who is compatible with you and simplify your life for goodness sake...and yes, it is that simple IMO. Now the sex thingy (argh)...that's another story.
JMO
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 5:26:29 PM | OK curls22, if you read the posts (all of them) you'd know I didn't have a problem with the first date, that was simply drinks and ordeurves. At the end of the night we talked and decided (both of us) we'd like to see each other again. That week I asked her if she'd like to come to my house and I'd cook dinner, she said Yes. Later she got cold feet if you will, and decided she'd rather meet at a restaurant, it was her who said she'd prefer a restaurant on the water.
I'll have to go back and check about "the majority of women".
Good comments and suggestions, keep em comming. | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 5:30:40 PM | Some people just expect top of the line and in that case they need to date someone who can and is willing to shell out the $$$ for it... I always do something inexpensive go to the park or lake river have lunch nothing expensive though... maybe have a couple drinks and yes I do buy .... But it seems men are just as bad about this... they live out of town and they want you to always call them ... they want you to pick up the tab and wine and dine them then want sex on top of it... are you Kidding me? so some men have gotten like a lot of women have and women who do expect the best should be willing to go halfs or something its insane for her to expect a man to pay that much for dinner everytime you go out....
I am easy to please I dont expect the high dollar dinners and usually save that for after we date and on special occassions only... I want to know the person not how much money he has...Althogh I don't think that he should expect me to pay for everything either.... I suggest you talk about where you are going before picking her up this way you both know up front... if she isnt interested then you have saved yourself a lot of time and irritation... | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 7:00:46 PM | | Rick, I did read the entire thread and nowhere in my post did I talk about it being a first date. I suggested you choose the restaurant when you pay so that you can control the costs and not come on here telling us how you spend $100 per meal. | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 7:21:34 PM | I opt for first meetings ( and sometimes second) being something very casual. Afterall, I am meeting a stranger. If you enjoy art, try a museum meeting. A coffee house was a perfect pick of mine once..the poetry people were a hoot and I was able to see if the new acquaintance had a sense of humor.
There are a multitude of things to do without dropping huge amounts of money on a first and second date. The focus is not "where" you are but "who" you are with. On one of my dates we shared frybread and hot chocolate at a pow-wow...keep it simple. (laughing)
The old saying "less is more" stands even today in this wacky world...then, should this woman rock your world? Romance her to the moon! | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 7:25:32 PM | New picture curls, not bad. Actually what I said is SHE wanted to eat at a restaurant on the water............I had suggested another place (restaurant), but, I wanted to see her again so I agreed.
BTW, you were wrong about the majority! 10 for discussing it and paying half, WHICH I never asked for. 12 suggested something less expensive and 2 said if you ask her out you pay.
My post was not meant to really talk about the cost of dinner, although you try taking someone out for a nice dinner in Seattle, it doesn't take much, a couple drinks each, the meal and tips easily add up to that much.
WHAT I did do was asked for some help on verbiage on how to discuss issues like this, and so far I've gotten some good responses. Sounds like you have an issue? | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 8:18:13 PM | You've been out on 30 to 40 dates with different women? Holey moley!
I didn't read all the responses but I'll see if I can be of any help.
First meet ups should be at coffee houses, bookstores. No problem, doesn't cost much.
After that, use your words. Come out and say what you are thinking. Even if you wanted to see that woman again, if she wanted to go somewhere expensive, just say, "I was thinking of somewhere more casual." Or "I'm not up to going there tonight, maybe in the future, how about ....."
If someone rejects you because of that, then they are not the right person. They have to be comfortable but so do you!
Geesh, I'd be happy to go out for a donut and soda if the person is right. There are also museums, art galleries, there must be bakery/cafe type places also. There are some fun places to go in Freemont or up on Broadway (I think the name of the street is?)
Sounds like you've been meeting some very expensive women out there. lol | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/8/2009 9:53:43 PM |
At the end of the night we talked and decided (both of us) we'd like to see each other again. That week I asked her if she'd like to come to my house and I'd cook dinner, she said Yes. Later she got cold feet if you will, and decided she'd rather meet at a restaurant, it was her who said she'd prefer a restaurant on the water.
I think paying for your first date or two is fine. I think splitting the bill is sort of tacky. However, when you asked her over for dinner and she declined and suggested going elsewhere, you should have said that would be fine if SHE was paying for the entire date. If she isn't going to pay for the date and isn't going to let you cook dinner for you, you have to wonder what her motivations are. Personally, I would have expected her to spend the night by then or I would have figured she really wasn't interested in me as much as she was going out. Regardless of whether she spent the night, by the third date she shouldn't feel uncomfortable going to your place to eat dinner. | |
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toyoux
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Joined: 5/28/2006
Msg: 48 | |
| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/9/2009 5:08:49 AM | OP: I think it's sweet as hell you'd take flowers..........I understand why you don't do that anymore.........but they'd be great on, say, the fifth date!!
What about a walk around Pike's Market with coffee for the initial meet, trip to the art museum followed by drinks for the first "date", dutch dinner for the second.........
Wait, you're asking how to word it.............just be straight. "I mean no offense whatsoever but I'd to share expenses, at least initially, while we get to know each other"................? | |
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toyoux
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Joined: 5/28/2006
Msg: 49 | |
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| Ok Guys and Girls, need a little help with verbiage!
Posted: 2/9/2009 5:34:12 AM | you're spending too much on 1st and 2nd dates. $100 dinners are only for something special -- a birthday or anniversary of somebody i know well and love, as far as i'm concerned! as a matter of fact, i'd be embarrassed and uncomfortable as hell if somebody spent that kind of money for dinner on a 1st or 2nd date.... unless i'm paying half of the bill!
there's nothing wrong with wanting to get to know somebody on neutral ground for a while, but i think you should find something else to do with these ladies, or start picking more affordable restaurants. or meet for lunch [or coffee, or drinks], instead of dinner. | |
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