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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/8/2009 3:32:11 PM |
What I don't get is your strong belief in this "till death do us part" ideal but don't, obviously, believe in the no children out of wedlock. The two seem to be diametrically opposed if your reason is based on vows for religious reasons. What you're saying in effect is that you don't like the thought that a man at one time loved or thought he loved someone else enough to marry them and that you, what?...loved someone enough to have children with them but not enough to marry them???...and then expect someone to be fine with that, as long as you weren't married to the fathers. Only you can figure out this bit of a twist in your rationale.
Interesting. Very interesting.
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/8/2009 6:56:52 PM | I am totally with you on this, being the same age and never been married...
but then I saw you have kids.
You're judging people who already took vows... yet it's ok for you to have kids out of wedlock? IMO having kids with a man you never married is pretty low on the "values" meter. I dunno how to word this without being rude, but you sound like a pretty big hypocrite. Hopefully someone else can put it more eloquently, but I just don't think you're in a place to judge.
edit: the above poster did a good job! | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/8/2009 7:19:26 PM | I struggled with the same thoughts as you have for a month or two. Then I realized it doesn't really matter and I didn't need to put so much thought into it.
I honestly think(not meaning to offend, but I know it was true in my case) that it's just a little insecurity. You think if he HAD a wife but left her(keep in mind, though, that not all divorces are like that!), then surely he could do that to you. What would make you different than her? Every relationship is different, though. The chemistry one person has with another person isn't going to be the same as the chemistry they have with you. Plus, there are environmental and situational issues that can play part in a break up. Those same issues might not be there with you and a divorced guy. While his ex-wife may have cheated, spent all the money, etc. after they were married, YOU are not like that, you know?
If you feel a connection with someone this will probably matter a lot less. So don't limit your options. | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/8/2009 7:27:42 PM |
I am totally with you on this, being the same age and never been married...
but then I saw you have kids.
You're judging people who already took vows... yet it's ok for you to have kids out of wedlock?
Once again, I would like to say that I am not judging anyone. I know my situation and it's a tough one.
Just for the record here (and I dont mean to bring religion into this) The Catholic church will forgive a mother for having children out of wedlock and still allow her to marry in the Catholic church. However, the Catholic church will not allow you to marry someone who has been married before.
The church says that once you marry, you are married forever. Even if you divorce (and they only permit a divorce to happen if one of the couple cheats), you are still married to that person, but divorced at the same time, therefore you can't re-marry.
So, I am not judging anyone. I know that when I step on that alter and make a vow to someone, I want the guy I marry to know that I never made that commitment to anyone before but him. Just my opinion and my kids dont have anything to do with that.
Sorry if that just doesnt make sense to some people. I am a good person and just am struggling a little bit with trying to do the right thing according to the religion my Grandmother cherished and conformed to. She was a saint and I wish I understood the religion more when I was a teenager.
While his ex-wife may have cheated, spent all the money, etc. after they were married, YOU are not like that, you know?
If you feel a connection with someone this will probably matter a lot less. So don't limit your options.
I like your point, that is why I recently decided to forget the rule of not dating divorced guys and to give it a shot. I think there are some really nice divorced guys that would love a great woman in their life. | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/8/2009 7:28:29 PM | With all due respect, I have to say you have some weird issues. You have kids outside of wedlock, yet you are making judgments about guys having been married before? lol I can understand that it being a preference, and I'm sure recently-divorced people could be considered off-limits... but it's case-by-case issue, and unwise to use as a blanketed absolute off-limits judgment.
And yes, you are making judgments about guys. Because you believe they wrongfully broke a vow and made a grave, grave sinful mistake, merely by having had a divorce in the past.
No, you shouldn't stick to your gut instincts. Worst all-scenario advice ever given, btw. In this case, your "gut instinct" is how you've been conditioned. You need to resolve those issues, because you're 30+, have kids, and you're in a dating world where there's going to be people who've had a divorce. Ya need to understand that people righteously get divorced.
You've had issues about dating divorced people for the wrong reasons. It's had a negative effect.
I'd stay away from recently divorced people if you have a relationship in mind. That's not taking it too far. But you must unlearn what you have "learned" from your upbringing about marriage. Judge them on a case-by-case basis, and learn to realize that people should get a divorce and not live in a marriage where their spouse fell out of love and is playing doctor with every babysitter or pool boy that comes over. And that in many situations, having kids brings more ties to the ex (potentially baggage) than a divorce does.
Don't be a slave to fundamentalist church-house rules. There are many good Catholics who re-marry, if that means anything. The fundy concept of divorce-is-always-bad is the most immature, silly, moronic thing I've ever heard. Okay, I've heard more idiotic brainwashing statements, but that one ranks right up there!
What if an unmarried guy gave you a chance, then he said "You know what? You have kids. See ya." or "I need a woman who believes the same thing I do... not to have kids before you're married."? | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/8/2009 7:33:49 PM |
What if an unmarried guy [gave you a chance], then he said "You know what? You have kids. See ya." or "I need a woman who believes the same thing I do... not to have kids before you're married."?
Good point. But would he have even given me a chance in the first place when he knew that I had kids? YES, guys actually do that. They say they dont mind me having kids, but THEY DO. Rather than me even considering a married guy knowing it was an "issue" for me, I just didn't entertain the idea to begin with.
Now, I am starting to reconsider. I recently dated a divorced guy and he was nice enough, but he had small kids and all sorts of emotional issues like you said. His ex wife remarried, he couldn't see his kids enough, he was depressed, etc.
But yea, guys do what you said all the time.
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/8/2009 9:23:27 PM | That's quite a loophole, you can have children out of wed lock and the church opens it's arms because a sin is a sin is a sin, but not really it would seem, but let a Catholic divorce and they are mud. Nice. I guess if you can live with that kind of hypocrisy more power to you but I'd not want to be affiliated with such tripe. Either neither is a sin or both are and should be seen as the same. 
So this need to belong to the church, is it because you actually believe in the dogma or because you have made your grandma into a saint and want to be like your memory of her? I'm having some trouble following your reasoning (not that you owe me an explanation) LOL | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/8/2009 10:29:40 PM | It's your life, your beliefs.
By the same token, I've been married before, but I would not marry someone who had children outside of a marriage. One child... ok, unplanned things happen. More than one out of wedlock and I think we just have really different values, and I'm not going there. And I don't even feel the need to ask others if I need to lighten up. When I meet a man who tells me he has two kids, no marriages... I'm like... buh bye. | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/8/2009 10:37:52 PM | | I've never been married and although it would be nice to marry someone who has never been married, I would not let a prior marriage stand in the way of marrying someone who was, in all other ways, the person I wanted. I might tend to gravitate toward women who haven't been married, but I'm not going to be dogmatic about it. | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/8/2009 10:51:29 PM | Sorry OP but this comment you made really got to me.
I know that when I step on that alter and make a vow to someone, I want the guy I marry to know that I never made that commitment to anyone before but him. Just my opinion and my kids dont have anything to do with that.
Were you not in some way commited to the man/men you had your children w/? You may not have taken marriage vows to seal the commitment to the father, but by having their children you commited to having the possibility of them in YOUR life for the length of your children's lives.
Also just because you haven't made it to the alter before doesn't mean that you haven't mentally commited yourself to being married to someone in your past.
Not bashing but it seems like you are splitting hairs. | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/8/2009 11:13:42 PM | Just because my profile says single doesn't mean I wasn't married, it does mean that I never considered my own marriage legitimate enough to "count". No Kids, no alimony, or support or battle over property or anything. I don't pretend it never happened either, it's just not something I feel I need to talk about or even admit to unless I've known someone for a while.
At my age, trying to find women who were never married and/or don't have children is much less likely, so I kinda have to roll with it. I've actually found a refreshing difference in the ones that have already "been there and done that". It seems like a higher level of maturity that I was always looking for when I was younger but never connected with.
Mike | |
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Jim978
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Joined: 7/15/2008
Msg: 37 | |
| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/9/2009 3:37:19 AM |
Just for the record here (and I dont mean to bring religion into this) The Catholic church will forgive a mother for having children out of wedlock and still allow her to marry in the Catholic church. However, the Catholic church will not allow you to marry someone who has been married before.
The church says that once you marry, you are married forever. Even if you divorce (and they only permit a divorce to happen if one of the couple cheats), you are still married to that person, but divorced at the same time, therefore you can't re-marry.
Since you are concerned about the effects of a divorce and how that relates to the Catholic Church you might just want to actually find out what the Catholic Church's position on the issue is. There are more holes in your statement above than there is any sort of "rule" or Church law.
To begin with , the Catholic Church's position deals with religious divorce. It has NOTHING to do with a civil divorce. And for there to be any concern to begin with the marriage in question has to be a VALID marriage. In the eyes of the Catholic Church any marriage that wasn't performed in a Catholic Church by a priest ISN'T a valid marriage.
There are also several other grounds for a Church annulment other than one of the spouses cheating. Those other conditions include if there were any conditions placed on the marriage (i.e. a pre-nuptuial agreement qualifies), if one or the other spouse had a mental disorder at the time they were married in a VALID ceremony, if there was deceit or deception during the marriage, etc...
This "thing" (for lack of a better term) you are holding on to doesn't exist. The Catholic Church hands out annulments faster than they hand out communion wafers. My ex applied for an annulment and it was granted 3 days later - and SHE was the one who cheated during our marriage. | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/9/2009 4:11:40 AM | Footballmom you said in your later post that you are trying to adhere to your Catholic religion as far as divorcees go etc.
My mother, a staunch Vatican I (one) Catholic, got an ANNULLMENT granted after 8 children 28 yrs of marriage when my father left after having an affair. They divorced in civil court and I guess (much to my surprise after her death to find the ANNULLMENT in the safety deposit box) that it was important to her as a catholic to do so.
These silly acts to apease your religion can be done, if my mother can do it, so can any man you want to marry in the catholic church. For the record, she didn't do it so that she could remarry. My mother never dated again because in her eyes, it was death till you part and she wore her wedding rings until my father died. She didn't pine for him, she was just that faithful to her beliefs. (waste of time if you ask me but who am I to tell my mom what to believe if she was set on it).
Talk to your priest about this since it is so important to you. I happen to know there is a loophole around anything if this was done for my mom's circumstance. Which, by the way, makes me think...how stupid it is to have such restrictions if a woman with 8 children and 28 yr old marriage can get an annulment just to have everything okiedokie in the eyes of a church. God is what matters .
Lizzie | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/9/2009 5:18:17 AM | OP
I've read the responses in this thread and I still don't understand the double standard you're imposing. I understand you're using your religion as a way to "get around" the whole having kids out of wedlock thing but I honestly have to question why you'd think that your situation would be better than a guy who's been divorced is?
And sure, you met a guy who's divorced with kids and he had issues so that turned you off--but you can't honestly believe that ALL divorced men with kids are like that. And realize that there are men who will judge you even harsher than you're judging them.
How do you reconcile the fact that you have kids outside of marriage with your faith? I'm not sure I understand how that works to be honest with you. It sounds hypocritical--and I don't mean that as an insult. I'm trying to wrap my head around this double standard. I understand that Catholicism doesn't allow birth control BUT...you have what 3 kids? After #1, why didn't you get married? See--I think that's where people are going what?! First one can be an oops but then the 2nd and 3rd one and you didn't attempt to get married? I would think that the people at your church don't look too highly on you. I don't know but they'd probably understand the annulment process better than this. And as several other people have said, your Church will give someone an annulment.
But then that also brings up another interesting question...if you don't want someone divorced and they obviously need to be Catholic, does that mean you're interested in dating/marrying someone who might be much younger than you AND may want kids? | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/9/2009 8:16:32 AM | footballmom77 ... I can kinda understand your reasoning behind being a little leary of people that have been married before .... those who took "vows" and didn't/couldn't live up to them (but not necessarily any fault of their own). For those of us who were raised with the "marriage is forever" thoughts, we just have to accept that it doesn't exist much in these modern times (but often for good reason).
What scares me moreso of divorced people is the bitterness some feel towards their exes ... it scares me how much they can "hate" someone that they once loved madly.
But, never-married people get harder to find with every year we age ... you may be seriously limiting your options , and maybe even miss out on a great guy if you keep that mindset.
A definate plus with some formerly married people is that some learned from the mistakes they made in their marriage, and may make better spouses the second-time-around....
As for the religious aspect ... if your beliefs are strong on the matter, and it is important to you .... do what YOU need to do....
BTW, good control while "under fire" ... lol | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/9/2009 8:30:40 AM | Footballmom, I totally could have been you a few years ago. I too, had a child "out of wedlock" at the age of 21. His Father and I weren't very committed to one another...it was a "surprise". I raised the child on my own for almost 10 years. I too, was looking for someone that had never been married.........I too, really wanted my 'first time' to be with someone else that was also heading to the alter for the 'first time'. I had my opportunities, even one proposal...but it didn't feel right, so I didn't go with it.
Years later, I ended up 'falling' for a divorced Dad (go figure). And yes, it bothered me a GREAT deal that he had been married before. I felt initially, as all of this was "old hat" to him, and worried that perhaps it wouldn't mean as much to him because he had already 'been there and done that'. I even saw evidence of this when it came time for wedding preparations. My parents were totally into it....his parents, not so much. Especially taking into consideration his Mother's religious beliefs, she requested that we have a "small and subtle wedding". I hated that, when we went for our marriage licence he had to display a 'divorce certificate'.
I finally realized, that all of these insecurities stemmed from me. It was 'my' issue. Marriage is what you make of it.......nothing more, nothing less. If you're equipped to make it work, than it might be his/your 'second' marriage, but it might also be his/your 'last marriage'.
Now that I'm "tainted" I have a much different perspective. I doubt that I would ever marry again......however I am also much wiser about the above situation, and can see it for what it was. | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/9/2009 10:23:51 AM | footballmom said
Once again, I would like to say that I am not judging anyone. I know my situation and it's a tough one.
I call B.S. on you. You are 100% JUDGING everyone. You are saying that every divorced person isn't worthy of you because they broke their vows, even if you don't have a clue about their situation or what their vows were! That's judging (and poor judging at that). Your situation isn't a "Tough One" as you put it... what makes it tough is the fact that on some level you realize your double standard.
I also call Hypocrite on you. Your low morals allowed you to have have sex and children out of wedlock, but I'm fairly sure you wouldn't want a never-married man to write you off because you have '**stard' children.
You are a pot calling a kettle black.
It seems that you have a deluded religious fantasy that a 37 year old man who has never been married is somehow more 'moral' or has higher 'values' than a divorced man. There is no correlation between the two.
So, I am not judging anyone. I know that when I step on that alter and make a vow to someone, I want the guy I marry to know that I never made that commitment to anyone before but him. Just my opinion and my kids dont have anything to do with that.
Wouldn't it be fair for any man stepping up to the alter with you, a never-married woman, to expect that you would not have had sex with other men and born their children?
You keep saying over and over that you are not judging others, even though you are.
You keep saying that you don't mean to bring religion into this, although this entire twisted, better-than-thou issue is caused totally by your religion.
I'm not saying you're not a nice, loving woman, nor am I saying that you are bad... I don't think you are at all. However, I do think you have a very religiously-skewed world view when it comes to sex and marriage.
James, Seattle, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/9/2009 11:33:46 AM | Let us see. Due to your Catholic beliefs you wish to one day marry a man that has never been married, this due to the Church’s stand on marriage being till death do us part. I assume this means you wish to have a Catholic wedding, … OK ? side note – ( have you ever been to one “shudder” )
You did know about this little thing called an annulment didn’t you ???
Your future husband, you and your local priest get together and discuss his previous marriage, and divorce. Chances are that as long as he wasn’t married in the Church, and even if he was he &, depending on the circumstances he may qualify. He fills out a bunch of paperwork, bribes, oops, I mean pays an administrative fee of around $ 1000.00 and sacrifices a couple of farm animals ( just kidding ) then you both wait about a year for the paperwork to make its way thru the system.
He is then free to marry again in the eyes of the Church.
You on the other hand have your own issues …. As you are guilty of fornication, at least twice as you have two kids, but I would assume you had sex more than twice so you’ll have to do the math.
You did know fornication is a mortal sin right ? that’s the top of line do not go to heaven go straight to hell variety of sin, that is if you’re a staunch believer as I assume you must be since getting married in the Church seems so important to you.
Have you been to confession ? have you been absolved of your many acts of fornication ? every time you have had sex in your entire life is a mortal sin if you are not married to the person you’re having sex with, if you have not been to confession, if you have not been absolved, than you cannot receive the sacrament of Holy Matrimony, you cannot be married by the Church with a mortal sin on your soul, well I suppose you could if you lied, but being a strict Catholic you wouldn’t lie about that as you would know that your marriage would essentially be invalid before God if you did.
Seems to me you have your own issues to deal with before worrying about your mythical future husbands eligibility to be married in your fantasy big Catholic wedding.
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/9/2009 11:59:47 AM | Footballmom77
If the person you love is not granted the right to wed within the church....you can still get your rings bessed by a priest and the vows blessed as well. A friend of mine did that and her marriage is good and sound. They are both practicing catholics and live according to the church. He married far too young in Italy. They have since reapplied to do their vows within the church and so far it looks good for them.
The church is learning - very slowly - that mistakes are made and are forgiven by God. Therefore the church should not necessarily not forgive? I wouldn't give up.
Shiraz21 | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/9/2009 12:09:40 PM | I'd be more worried about a woman with kids, than a woman who was divorced. You can get unmarried. You cannot get un-babied.
Edit: If you are worried about Catholic marriage, then you are worried only about people who were married by a Catholic priest, and they don't get a divorce, so there is no divorce to worry about in the first place. Either they are married, or annulled. No divorce, no problem. | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 2/9/2009 3:24:26 PM | Hi Everyone,
Thanks for all of the different points of views and responses. I'd like to respond to all of the things I've seen here, but time wont allow me to at this moment, so I would like to say at least this:
You may say I am judging and that I am being a hypocrite. That's fine, I can understand why you might jump to that conclusion. We are all here to be able to express ourselves, BUT let's look at it this way for a second. To JUDGE someone, you would have to be talking about an individual. I have plenty of divorced people in my life that I dont judge at all. Some are on their 2nd and 3rd marriages actually. Also, there are those that I know that are involved in affairs with married men. I don't judge them either, I treat them the same as anyone else in my life. My point is that I am not judging anyone, I was looking at a certain school of fish for a while. Just like some women on here are stictly looking for guys with graduate degrees and lots of money. And some men are strictly looking for women with no kids, we are all entitled to "look for certain" things, that's a luxury of online dating.
Let's be honest. I'm sure everyone has gone and done a search on POF. With and advanced search, you get to select certain criteria, right down to the height, body type, income, etc etc. Everyone has different preferences and/or things they look for first.
And please take it easy on me with the "you have issues" comments. And the comments about me not committing to my childrens father. And the comments about me committing sin and all these other things that I am hearing. I have a past, it involves me giving birth to two awesome kids. PEOPLE JUDGE ME ALL THE TIME and THERE IS AN ENTIRE GROUP OF MEN that are automatically OFF THE LIST OF POTENTIAL DATES because they JUDGE me, so if I want to be selective, I have that right.
And one last thing, PLEASE LOOK BACK TO THE PART where I state several times that I recently changed my criteria to LOOK FOR DIVORCED GUYS THAT HAVE KIDS.
Thank you again to everyone who took the time to respond and state their opinions, I will try to revisit this a little later.
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 5/17/2009 3:59:14 PM | | well what if it's not his fault he ended up in divorce. it's not right to say he did some thing wrong because he ended up getting a divorce. I'm divorced and my ex wife cheated on me more than once I took her back the first time because of our vows but I'm not a door mat and had to divorce her after she did it again. So lighten up it may not be his fault. | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 5/18/2009 1:23:22 PM | Changed my mind about posting to this old, dead, redundant post but I can't delete this since it's not allowed.
I also have to keep writing because the system won't let me just say 'nevermind' and move on.
I'm hoping this is enough. | |
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| Seeking someone who has never been married?
Posted: 5/18/2009 1:49:55 PM | I had that same frame of mind for years until I got married and then the marriage failed. I am not going to beat myself up over it at this point but if someone doesn't want you for whatever reason doesn't make one the criminal of the year.
The nice thing about divorcee's is they have been there, done that. They can really define through trial and error (if they admit to it) where they failed and not to repeat those same behaviors.
Now where I do have a problem are men who put "single" on their profile when they are in fact divorced. Or they have been married more than twice. In that instance they married too quickly or there's a pattern starting which I am not interested in.
But if you are over the age for late 30's, more than likely you are going to meet someone who has been married or in a very long term relationship. To sit and think there aren't too many who haven't been is just plain naive. | |
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