ocean
| | Joined: 2/4/2005
Msg: 76 | |
| | American Indian Ways and lumping tribes together with ShamansPage 4 of 6 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) | I'm sorry but I have to pipe in here. I am Native American. If you are going to call yourself a Shaman - please do not say in American Indian ways. Shaman's come from across the water. Yes, there are a couple tribes who are sort of ok with being called a shaman but not most. If you are studying with a native american healer use that tribes name. Say something like I am studying under a navajo healer towards my goal as a shaman. That is 100% better than American Indian Ways. There are over 500 Tribes in the USA alone and you have just lumped us into one little clump of shamans which we are not.
Ok, now I'm off my soap box. Someone mentioned a lack of the Divine in earth based religion. I think it depends on exactly what earth based religion you are talking about. There are earth based religions that have divine beings or a presense that is often assumed and compared to "God". Also the debate about heaven and hell. First, you have to believe in a religion that actually has a heaven and hell. I don't waste my time with hell or heaven since it is not in my religion. We do have rhealms which I could alter to compare as heaven and hell but what is the point? It just converts to christianity-based beliefs.
I guess my point to this entire email post is to just say.......please try not to lump all races and religions together....especially when you do not know enough about many of them. | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 2/15/2005 11:26:55 PM | I agree with you, MST Jedi. There are so few Pagans out there today because most of are afraid of coming out and saying , "Hey I'm Pagan." and then be ridiculed for it. It's refreshing to see this thread and see.."Pagans in Texas". LOL
Do you have any idea how hard is to try and figure out who's Pagan or Pagan friendly when you look through the profiles on here? hehehe this is great.
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ocean
| | Joined: 2/4/2005
Msg: 81 | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 2/19/2005 7:51:10 PM | | Mr. Kamway, you did indeed baffle the Christians here. As you had no prior post, nobody knows what you are referring to. As for your exclamation of who you "are", I have heard the same thing declared by patients in the mental health ward of hospitals that I have worked at. | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 2/25/2005 3:17:45 AM | | Mr RD Too Thank You For You Intrest Into This And I Assure You Sir. My Concern For Your Concern Is Duely Noted And I Will Look Into This Little Matter In The Order Of Most Important Matters First. If You'll Just Hang Tight Someone Im Sure Will Be Along Shortly To Assist You In This Matter And Get It All Streightend Out For You Thank You For Your Patience... | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 6/22/2005 11:35:25 AM | I've read, most all these post's. and I must say..Im a little disturbed.
I see alot of refrences, "fuzzy bunnies", people who have "no clue", is this how we teach our student's now?Is this what we want them to see about us?Do we want to embarrass them to the point they loose ALL interest? I can tell you our #s grow but we still cant afford to turn them away ourselve's. When we see someone make a post, that show's us they have no clue,instead of laughing at that person, perhap's you should try giving them one. If you see what you conceive to a fuzzy bunny (someone give me a good solid definition for that word PLEASE), then disscuss rationally the point's you disagree on, and remember,that when we act like them, we become LIKE them. You had to have began your studies somewhere too, Did you never have misconception's? I know I have! I must say Im shocked, that ANYONE calling themselves a "True Witch" would even concider useing such a word as "fuzzy bunny" to discribe potential practitioner's.
~Every ending is a beginning~ | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 6/22/2005 11:39:32 AM | I am new at my path, so still learning and discovering ( I hope I never get past the learning and discovering), so probably am a *fuzzy bunny*. (awaiting definition).
But do know in other things, once one becomes proficient in something it is hard to remember the beginnings when things were so confusing so seems easy to poke fun.
You are absolutely right in the fact that it is better to take a chick under the wing, then leave it out for the wolves.
Kat | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 6/22/2005 11:54:48 AM | It seem's some of the Wiccan people earlier in the thread got a little "holier than thou" They take the attatude's "There I got what I want, Ill just make fun of those who dont." Instead of helping that person. Im not saying you need to be a teacher, it doesnt take long to make a corrective post with out being mean about it.
Serioulsy, you are doing very very well, you just keep studing, and as you become more and more proficiant in your craft, never forget the day's when you began. Remember where you would be had you NOT built a good strong Knowledge Foundation. Witchery with out the knowledge and spiritualism, is like a painting with no background....
We cant be expected to know all, but knowledge is power, and the power dosent nessasarily belong to us, so offer it freely to those who will hear it.
~Love is the Law~ | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 6/22/2005 1:47:48 PM | | This is kind of off topic, but I'm not a huge one for the Magick aspect. I believe in it whole heartedly, but I tend to leave it out of my everyday life. What drew me to Wicca, and continues to affirm it to me, is the philisophical/spiritual aspect of it as opposed to Magick. Is that bad? | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 6/22/2005 2:10:00 PM | Well no, it's not bad silly, Some might argue that your path is Pagan, but as I have said these are only word's title's to be used, but word's are inpresice,and to layered in meaning. Chances are that if you call your self a witch, then you probably are.If you "beleive whole heartedly in the magik" then that sir is the first step. You only lack the training, learn to look at the word's of your book's. The information is there for the Takeing, but instead of just reading the word's, take in a chapter, meditate on it. Find it's hidden meaning. I think you'll all find that each lesson provide's a path of spiritual growth.
one of my instructor's once told me "know yourself, then Know your art"
Perhap's their's a "master teacher spirit" guiding you Sleep, You'll make the magik when your ready. | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 6/22/2005 2:54:49 PM | Thanks for the info, as always, Enchantress. I do know a little of magick, however how I "cast" it persay is a little different than what I read about. But, as Scott Cunningham seemed to be all about, whatever works, right?
I admit that I don't know nearly as much as others, but I wanted to clarify that I do know some, just that for me everything else takes priority. Basically the opposite of some teenagers who watch "The Craft", call themelves Witches (I call them Wicclets) and only concentrate on the Magick - leaving the rest ignored. | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 6/22/2005 3:28:11 PM | Quality, Sleepsong, NOT quantity, remember that. Build your foundation, and when the time is right you too will move on into the world of magik. You are both new, and you make art like those who teach it, as you should. Never question your instuctor's, but find the hidden meaning's in their word's, and before you know it, you will naturaly in your own time learn to make your own Unique and beautifull art. Dont become discouraged by the hard word's of other practitoner's. Ill leave this post with the divine word's of the mother herself....
Hear ye the word's of the great Star Goddess,She in the dust of who's feet are the host's of heaven, Who's body encircleth the universe...
I who am the beauty of the Green earth
and the white moon,amongst the star's
and the mystery of the water
and the desire of the heart's of man.
I call unto thy soul to arise, and come unto me
For I am the soul of nature
who giveth life unto the universe
From me all thing's proceed, and unto me all thing's must return
You beloved of the God's and men
Who's inner most divine self shall be safely enfolded in the rapture's of the Infinate
Let my worship be in the heart
REJOICE! For ALL act's of love and pleasure are my ritual's
Therefore let there be beauty and strength,
Power, and compassion, Honor and humility,Mirth and reverance with in you
(the important part here )
And thou who thinkest to seek me
Know that thy seeking and yearning avail thee not
unless thou knowest the mystery-
That if that which thou seekest
thou findeth not within yourself
thou will never find it,with out thee
For BEHOLD!
I have been with thee from the beginning...
and I am that which is attained at the end of desire....
Those who would have you beleive they know all,and laugh at you for not knowing it are not on a road to enlightenment, when they show themselve's to you smile nod and get away, they could hender your growth, not help it...
~Silver Fox~
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 6/22/2005 4:33:41 PM | Yes Sleep song I know what your saying about the teenager's who see that movie the craft. (That was a good movie till they started flying  ) I know they can be abit frustrating, at time's wondering when they will fly on besom's, or tell me they want to "vanquish a demon."
I just smile and explain to them that the myth of flying on "broom stick's" came mostly from an old fertillity rite done for crop's and that the olny Demon's they will need to "vanquish" are their own.. and after a year and a day, they come away with a FAR more powerfull ally, than ANY demon, and flying besom...They come away master's of their mind's bodies, and spirit's.
Yes these people can fluster, but patiant's can be a virtue. The Fate's bring diffrent witches to the art's in diffrent way's, some are more scholerly, and other's have more to do with some hollywood hero or heroine, but neither should be less valid than the other, as the Lord n Lady speak to use in way's we are most likely to understand......Understand?? ;) | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 6/22/2005 6:52:21 PM | the term "fluffies" refers to the ones who aren't serious, are only interested in the props, have no interest in the belief systems that pagans follow, and just want to go around trying to impress the ignorant with how dark and scary they are. everyone's seen at least a few of these. they are usually wearing what they think is the required uniform - black clothes, huge, tacky, inverted pentagram, etc. they have no clue, and usually don't want one. they make us all look bad.
people who talk about the fluffies aren't putting down newbies, who don't fall into this category. anyone with a real interest in the craft, including it's spiritual nature, should be encouraged. | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 6/22/2005 7:24:23 PM | Sidhe, I came to know the SWEETEST 13 year old girl, she was everything you just described. Black cloth's, Ill put curese on you all that good stuff. I remember the first time she told me she felt she was Wiccan. I just got ALL exited, I said "well merry meet n blessed be!"........What's that mean?......LoL, your kidding right? I ALMOST turned and walked away right then. I proceeded to tell her merry meet is a greeting used by many of the "Witches faith's" (Trying to sound mystical of course), We swapped #'s and now she is one of our best student's. Though she does need to be scolded from time to time for not paying enough attention to her herbal studies, but who dosent have trouble with herb's after a few night's of it. She's become VERY proficiant with stone's, is respectfull to other's now and really is the pride of their group.
If all else fail's, just out knowledge their ass, if they will not be humbled...humble them ;) | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 6/22/2005 8:17:41 PM | | I can understand your frustration, Sidhe and I think Enchantress has a point. It's unfortunate that not all can find such nurturing around them. and even more so that not all would want it. | |
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| Wiccans and Pagans! Give Me That Old Time Religion!
Posted: 6/22/2005 8:37:31 PM | | Sleep song, as a young girl some of my first lesson's were in reading people. I know all I need to know of most just by the placement of word's, word's used, the demeiner in which they are used, it's not as easy as actual body language, but it does work, this is something you should practice at, also, Have you already learned to feel the Magik? Like in charging herb's etc? DEEP inward contemplation. Youll notice I didnt use the word meditation, no, Id ask you just sit down, in the dark, or by candle light, where ever your the most comfotable, and just....Think, no you didnt say anything wrong hun, there's nothing in particular you need to think of really, just explore what's there, Id be interested in knowing what you find. | |
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| American Indian Ways and lumping tribes together with Shamans
Posted: 5/5/2008 7:57:29 PM | I'm on a Neopagan Druid path myself. I did walk the solitary Wicca path for a decade. Last year I met members of a Gardnerian Wiccan coven and sometimes I circle with them, but for the most part I'm on a Druidic path. Not to be different, but because it fits my path a little bit better.
About Native Americans and white Americans following a 'shamanic' path, there are a lot of the former who frown on the latter's appropriation of their religious culture, especially if the latter are 'armchair/book shamans'. I think Native Americans would be much more approving if we studied the ways of our ancestors and learned their lore instead of 'stealing' the ways and the lore of Native Americans. That way, we could meet by the fire and share our respective ways and lore and do some drumming afterwards.
There are some OBOD Druids in New Zealand who have attracted the attention and approval of the indigenous Maori population. That's what it's about, finding commonality in our respective ways and lore. | |
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