|
|
|
|
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/7/2009 10:11:39 AM | | i cant believe some of these responses.there isnt one person who hasnt yelled at their kids before sometimes you have no choice.its not showing your out of control.let me rephrase thaqt by yelling im not saying screaming like a maniac.with a serious tone yes.your not going to talk to your child like a baby .cmon people be serios with ur answers.alot of you guys are gonna have ur kids walk all over you.and for the response of abuse for spanking a butt.evreryone smaked their kids bottom before and if u say u didnt u lie.i have a great relashionship with me kids i dont yell at em or spank them but if they deserved it i would the problem is the parent .your kids are who they hang out with all you need is one bad egg and thats it.most parents let kids walk over them and their out partying or smokeing cuz they were walked on when they were younger | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/7/2009 7:10:40 PM |
he believes parenting can be learned from a book by someone who wrote it in 1962 - in other words, one parenting model fits all, he is right, everyone else is wrong and if you parent differently you are a poor parent.
First, the argument of when a child therapist and researcher wrote something is irrelevant to whether or not the arguments are sound. For that matter, it is also a poor argument altogether since "traditional" parenting (punishment, rewards and other "tough love" parenting methods) are all coming from sources way older than 1962. They stem from old fashioned values passed down from many generation down with no knowledge what so ever of child development or psychology. Even if you would look at what research has supported the traditional parenting, (even if you aren't aware of it as a parent) you will find it originates from Burrhus Fredreic Skinner - the father of behaviorism - published in 1948. His work was based on how to modify behavior into pigeons and rats, by the way - as shocking as it may be to learn.
Second, and more importantly, Thomas Gordon is only one of many researcher and child therapist who paved the way to cognitive psychology and child development. Maybe Amoré is having some selective memory problem? For instance, on message #240 on this thread: http://forums.plentyoffish.com/11321183datingPostpage10.aspx I offered parents no less than 9 different child psychologist, educators or experts to read from. Since then, as I continued studying in Family Life Education, I added quite a few new ones. Just for the sake's of refreshing your memory, here is the list of all the authors I am recommending to parents who want to learn more:
* Raising resilient children, Robert Brooks, Ph.D. & Sam Goldstein, Ph.D., 2001
* Être parent, mode d'emploi (how to be a parent - a guide), Hélène Renaud & Jean-Pierre Gagné,2004
* Discipline That Works: Promoting Self-discipline in Children, Dr. Thomas Gordon, Ph.D., New York: Plume/Penguin, 1989
* How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk, Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish, Perennial Currents, 1980
* La discipline, un jeu d'enfant (Discipline, a child's play), Brigitte Racine, St-Justine Hospital publications,2008
* Between parent and child, Dr. Haim Ginott, New York, Avon, 1969
* Unconditional Parenting: Moving from Rewards and Punishments to Love and Reason, A provocative challange to the conventional wisdom about discipline, Alfie Kohn, 2005
(watch a snippet of Kohn's conference about time-outs, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRE2gqjQx5Q )
* Raising a thinking child, Myrna B. Shure, Ph.D. & Theresa Foy Digeronimo, M. ED, 1994
* Hold on to your kids, Gordon Neufeld, Ph.D., and Gabor Maté, M.D,
* Kids are worth it!, Barbara Coloroso, 1995
* Parenting From Your Heart: Sharing the Gifts of Compassion, Connection, and Choice - Inbal Kashtan, 2004
(watch Inbal in action in a parenting workshop here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQO7h9MNCqI )
* Raising Children Compassionately: Parenting the Nonviolent Communication Way - Marshall B. Rosenberg, 2004
* The new Peoplemaking by Virginia M. Satir, 1988
* The Explosive child, Ross W. Green, Ph.D, 1998
So, the point is NOT that "one model fits all". In fact, the model is not important: all the above authors promote different parenting "methods" - or some of them, like Gordon Neufeld, promote no method at all. However, they are all based on solid underlying principles, and that is what matters. What is important is that some parenting practices, such as spanking, time outs, punishments, yelling and put downs, do hinder a child's development, damages the child's self esteem and severe the attachment between the parent and the child, leading to long term problems as the child becomes a teenager. And all of the above researcher made these clear through out their research and experience, both as counselors, therapist or researchers, and as parents themselves.
Readers on this forum are welcome to to read any of these books and see for themselves, or read none of them, or simply to ignore me. Each reader is entitled to his choice, and my goal has always be and still is only to help. But please stop targeting me personally, Amoré: you've made it abundantly clear you have a personal problem with me. No need to add to it. Thanks. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/7/2009 7:59:14 PM | Cut and paste cut and paste. I am only responding to what you yourself have posted, and I am entitled to my opinions. If you take it as a personal attack, there is nothing I can do about that. You yourself said you were in many failed relationships with women who had children, and my opinion is this does not constitute parenting experience, however much you feel you are better at parenting then the ACTUAL parent. No selective memory problem, CS. Most of your posts cut and paste from the same books. That's great you are taking the Family Life Course, a non-degree program which requires a 65% average for acceptance - I gather you are just beginning, and look forward to reading your posts after you become educated. I do not condemn all principles from all authors you have posted, and know that certain themes that are based on common sense are good for any parent (love and respect your child, listen to them, communicate, etc) and a lot of parents can benefit from additional parenting resources, but you feel that if you say a line from a book a child will say and do what the book says that child will do, and you like to continually point out that if a parent does A then B WILL happen, and that is just not true. A time out will not sever a relationship between parent and child. Ridiculous statement.
What is important is that some parenting practices, such as spanking, time outs, punishments, yelling and put downs, do hinder a child's development, damages the child's self esteem and severe the attachment between the parent and the child, leading to long term problems as the child becomes a teenager
Not true. Why must you insist on categorically stating your view in this manner? Perhaps for SOME children it may if abused, but certainly not all as you like to claim, thereby demeaning any parent who has yelled or spanked their kid. This does not help anything but your ego. Readers of this forum are welcome to read any post by any poster and respond to what they like. Responding does not mean you are being "targeted", it means something you have written is being responded to. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/7/2009 8:19:01 PM |
What is important is that some parenting practices, such as spanking, time outs, punishments, yelling and put downs, do hinder a child's development, damages the child's self esteem and severe the attachment between the parent and the child, leading to long term problems as the child becomes a teenager.
Totally agree with this. Have seen it with my nieces and nephews and even some friend's kids. Yes, no parents are perfect; I've yelled at my own a time or two. And I've apologized after I cooled down.
I'd rather live peacefully and joyfully with my children in a respectful manner -- the respect goes two ways. I've found that I reap what I sow, and my kids trust and respect me. The proof is in the pudding, not some theory. When I'm with my kids I'm wholly present, and I treat them like human beings worthy of dignity and respect.
I like my kids, and they like me. And that says something when one of them is a teenaged girl! | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/7/2009 9:38:03 PM |
A time out will not sever a relationship between parent and child. Ridiculous statement.
If it is ridiculous, why don't you explain us exactly what the effect of time-outs are on a child's mind and development, according to you, Amoré?
According to cognitive psychological research, Time-outs have the following effects:
- It puts back into immature hands (the child) the responsibility of growing rather than in the hand of a mature adult. When the adult says "go to your room and think about what you just did", the adult effectively takes away his own responsibility at teaching and instead puts the child in charge. Which is unrealistic, because the child's brain is not ready to do this yet on his own. (Neufeld)
- It sends a message of conditional love to the child, rather than unconditional love. It tells the child: when you behave in a way I don't like, I will withdraw my attachment, my love, my care. I will isolate you. This has dire consequences on the long term on a child's development as well as on the trust bond between child and parent. (Kohn)
- It focus the child on negative feelings rather than positive ones. It is a (mediocre and failed) attempt at focusing the child on thinking about what not to do, instead of what to do. Considering most if not all of a child misbehaviour comes from their inability to know what to DO instead when they have strong feelings, it completely fails to address the issue. It fails to seek and respond to a child's behavior root cause. (Coloroso)
- It teaches a child to obey (in fear of love withdrawal) rather than think. It is an attempt at teaching a child WHAT to think, rather than HOW to think. (Coloroso)
- It triggers thoughts of rebellions. Instead of thinking about what the kid did (on his own, with no adult help to help his reflection), it focus the child on how he can do it next time without being caught. Again, the focus is not at the right place. Worst, it pushes the child to see the adult as a source of punishment, rather than a source of help, which triggers a reflex of lying and hiding his behaviour from the parent next time. (Gordon)
- It may create MORE bad behavior, as it feeds the cycle: bad behavior triggers a negative response from parent, and that negative response creates anger in the child. But the child does not know yet how to handle his anger (which is often the root cause of many bad behaviour) so it triggers MORE bad behaviour, which cause the parent to give MORE negative consequences, which creates MORE resentment, and so on. In some cases, the child may also feel like he already "paid" for the misbehaviour with the punishment or the timeout, leading him to feel justified to do it again.
- It creates an attachment void where, with the passing years, child understand that parents cannot really understand how they feel. It teaches a child that only his behaviour is of interest to a parent, and that their inner feelings, motivations and needs are not understood by their parent. As a consequence, they seek their attachment toward their peers, leading them during their teen years to sex abuse, alchool and drugs. (Neufeld)
Of course, a single case of time-out, or an occasional yelling, wlthough it will have all of the above effect, will be compensated by all the positive things that parent do with their child. However, each time one of the practices below is done on a child, a little erosion is done on the relationship. And as years passes, these accumulate with potentially disastrous results.
What is important is that some parenting practices, such as spanking, time outs, punishments, yelling and put downs, do hinder a child's development, damages the child's self esteem and severe the attachment between the parent and the child, leading to long term problems as the child becomes a teenager
Not true. Why must you insist on categorically stating your view in this manner? Perhaps for SOME children it may if abused, but certainly not all as you like to claim, thereby demeaning any parent who has yelled or spanked their kid.
As I clearly exposed, both because this is what I am studying, and because it is also clearly demonstrated by some solid research, this is not MY point of view. This is what research found out. You can turn it all the way around and it still won't change the truth of it.
I do agree with this: if you look the end result, after many year, you may end up with SOME kids that are still very healthy and SOME kids that are terribly damaged. It depends on many factors, including the parenting style of the other parent, the presence of other adults around the child who created attachments with them, the severity and frequency of the parent's punishments, and how many other positive parenting practices you also do with your children - to name only a few of these parameters.
However, we are debating two very different point here:
Spanking, yelling, put-downs, punishment, and time-outs ALWAYS have a negative effect on a child. (My point)
SOME children still end up healthy at the end. (Your point).
I am perfectly agreeing with the your point here. Yes, parents are sometimes tired, lost control, felt helpless or needed to lash out, and it is very understandable. I am not trying to be demeaning to any parent who did that. Yet it still doesn't change the fact that these practice are damaging to a child's development. And yes, thankfully, with dedication, love, care and joy, some parent manage to compensate the negative impact these practice have with some positive impact. Assuming now that you suddenly start to realize, as a parent, how negative some of these practices are, why not then work on some substitutes for them? Why not change some good parenting for even better parenting?
So it comes down to this. You can read the research in parenting and find out for yourself the effect of these practices on a child's development, and that might provoke a change in your parenting ways, triggering you to seek other ways to handle bad behaviour. Or you can ignore it. It certainly is going to be easier, psychologically speaking, for a parent who used these practices, to ignore everything and wave me off like you do. And that's OK, it's your choice. But please understand that this is not "my" opinion. It's the result of the current state of research.
And for your information, the Family Life Education program is a 2 years and a half program, totalizing 39 university credits, and leading to a minor degree. It also automatically leads to a national certification, the CFLE: http://www.ncfr.org/cert/ | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/8/2009 5:32:05 AM | [QUOTE]SOME children still end up healthy at the end. (Your point).[/QUOTE]
NO, what I clearly stated was that my point was MOST children are perfectly fine, perhaps a FEW if due to abusive punishing would MAY end up having difficulties. Two very different things. Nice try.
So you are saying the two options are to read YOUR posted "research" (one-sided on the issue) and change one's parenting ways, or take the "easy way out" and ignore it? Those are certainly NOT the only two choices, and your phrasing once again proves what disdain you hold for parents. To say someone who does not parent to a research book is alternatively taking the easy way out of parenting is rude and ignorant.
Yes, parents are sometimes tired, lost control, felt helpless or needed to lash out, and it is very understandable
These are not the only reasons a parent could yell or punish their child and once again you continue to demean parents by assuming these are sole reasons for them yelling. One can tell one is not a parent by these types of statements.
But do we sometimes express our frustration, showing kids that we love them even when they make us angry? Do we raise our voices when they do something dangerous? Yes, that's healthy.
As for YOUR information, your course is a CERTIFICATE program, NOT a university degree, and credits earned MAY be applied towards a the requirement for a Bachelor of/Baccalaureate in Arts degree - they are NOT 39 "University Credits". It also does not "automatically" grant you national certification, you must apply though one of two national agencies - IF you pass. Again, trying to manipulate the facts. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/8/2009 6:15:06 AM |
NO, what I clearly stated was that my point was MOST children are perfectly fine, perhaps a FEW if due to abusive punishing would MAY end up having difficulties.
Your point is about how many END UP fine. My point is how the PRACTICES of yelling, spanking, time-outs and put-downs are damaging to a child development.
Both point can be true in some cases, because many OTHER factors are to be taken into account in the end result.
Yes, parents are sometimes tired, lost control, felt helpless or needed to lash out, and it is very understandable These are not the only reasons a parent could yell or punish their child and once again you continue to demean parents by assuming these are sole reasons for them yelling. One can tell one is not a parent by these types of statements.
This was by no way an exhaustive list of why parents yell, nor was it my intend to attempt posting such a list. There are in fact many reasons for which parents could yell. And no matter how detailed that list could have been, I am sure you would have pointed out more reasons to yell. But - again - it does not change the fact that the yelling is damaging to a child development, even when it is done for perfectly legitimate reasons and even when you are doing it with all the love in the world.
I am not contesting here that most child seem to end up well even though many parents occasionally yell. I am not either contesting that their could be many reasons for yelling, some of which - like when a toddler is about to put a foot in the street for instance - are very justified. The justification for yelling, or the reason for it, is not what I am discussing here. I am merly pointing out that it is damaging to a child's mental growth.
I would really appreciate, Amoré, if you would take the time to debate the real issues rather than continuously refocus the debate on things I didn't even contest.
But do we sometimes express our frustration, showing kids that we love them even when they make us angry?
Yelling is a terrible way to show someone our frustration, whether they are our kids or anybody else for that matter. Didn't your own parent teach you better ways to handle your frustration, as a healthy communicator? Perhaps not. Indeed, when parent yell, they teach their child that yelling is an acceptable way to handle frustration. It's no wonder then that they start yelling too when they are frustrated. A good way to handle frustration - both as an adult toward other adults and toward your own child - is to take a deep breath, say your are frustrated (not yell it) and go away take a walk outside, for instance. There are many other acceptable outlet for anger and frustration. Try yelling at your boss when you are frustrated at him? Try yelling at your friend's faces when you are frustrated? What would happen? It would damage your relationship with them. And you may still end up having a job (if you are lucky) or having a friend (if it was a good friend), so yes, the end result might still be good. It's still a damaging practice for a relationship, regardless of whether this is a parent-child relationship or another kind of relationship. Only with kids, it's worst, because they learn from you.
Do we raise our voices when they do something dangerous? Yes, that's healthy.
For toddlers, it might work because it will freeze or startle them. It still remains damaging on the long run. Then again, toddlers should not be put into an dangerous environment in the first place, so this should not happen very often. For older kids, especially as they approach their teenager years, yelling will be spectacularly ineffective and even counter-productive. Try yelling at your 13 years old who takes drug. You really think this will help? Think about it. Yelling is an expression of fear, frustration and anger. And it is both a damaging and an ineffective one, as it clearly demonstrate to your kid that you have, in fact, lost control.
As for YOUR information, your course is a CERTIFICATE program, NOT a university degree, and credits earned MAY be applied towards a the requirement for a Bachelor of/Baccalaureate in Arts degree - they are NOT 39 "University Credits". It also does not "automatically" grant you national certification, you must apply though one of two national agencies - IF you pass. Again, trying to manipulate the facts.
*sigh deeply* The site I posted was the org that deliver the certification as a Family Educator, not the course I take. The organization both delivers the certificate to people who take their program, and to people who take the family life education program in a recognized university. What I take, however, is a minor in applied human science, consisting on 39 university credits, and leading to BOTH a minor in art & science and the national certificate I sent the link for. Please stop trying to accuse me of being in bad faith and stop attacking me, it's getting really old. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/8/2009 8:01:18 AM | I think you can get your message across just by talking sternly getting on their level and eye to eye just as you can yelling at them. Tell them the consequences for their behavior. Also tell him/them/her that you are getting angry at them for what ever reason it is. Ask them to repeat what you just said. Don't yell unless it is an emergency.
Also praise more then yell too. set up timeout. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/8/2009 11:01:09 AM | Do you know the vast majority of children raised your way end up being violent with their parents when their parents are elderly and they are adult?
Would love to see the study that supports this premise.
Not had very much time but this statement still bothers me.
Have not a number of studies not suggested marital status and a lack of strong parenting or parental permissiveness as playing a significant, role in the abuse of parents by their children. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/8/2009 11:27:42 AM | Tealwood:
Yes, from what i read, permissiveness in parenting is also a definite factor in the abuse of elderly parents by their adult children. Lack of boundaries and permissiveness cause children to develop narcissic traits, amongst other negative effects. What I said about the cycle of violence in families still stands: both permissiveness and spanking leads to these tendancies. They aren't mutually exclusive. A parent can choose not to spank, yell or punish without falling onto the opposite extreme: firm boundaries and assertive parenting can still be applied without the use of any of these practices.
This being said, I have read a lot of studies and publications in the past years and I was responding from memory. So, to be fair, I should amand my previous post on this topic and say that the publications I read majorly identify a clear link between the parental practice of corporal punishment and the abuse from adult to their own parents. Many other links might also exists. I'll see if i can dig out some sources about this. Thanks for talking on my behalf on your previous post about the attack on my experience, by the way. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/8/2009 3:19:08 PM | Tealwood, here is one of the studies I told you about. This is one is sponsored by the government of Canada and is about teenagers.
"Parent Abuse: The Abuse of Parents by Their Teenage Children"
National Clearinghouse on Family Violence
http://www.canadiancrc.com/parent_abuse.aspx
Here are some extracts from this study:
Some abusive teenagers have themselves been physically, emotionally and/or sexually abused, or they have been exposed to one parent being abused by the other. They may feel powerless and retaliate by abusing the parent who is seen as the least powerful. (21-30)
21. T. Brezina, “Teenage Violence Toward Parents As An Adaptation of Family Strain,” Youth and Society, 30, 4 (1999): 416-444.
22. B.E. Carlson, “Adolescent Observers of Marital Violence,” Journal of Family Violence, 1, 4 (1990): 285-299.
23. Cornell and Gelles, 1982. 7
24. Evans and Warren-Sohlberg, 1988.
25. R. Geffner, P. Jaffe and M. Sudermann, Children Exposed to Family Violence: Current Issues in Research, Intervention, Prevention and Policy Development (New York, NY: Hayworth Press, 2000).
26. P.C. Kratcoski and L.D. Kratcoski, “The Relationship of Victimization Through Child Abuse to Aggressive Delinquent Behavior,” Victimology, 7, 4 (1982): 199-203.
27. L.R. Livingston, “Children’s Violence to Single Mothers,” Journal of Sociology and Social Welfare, 13, 4 (1986): 920-933.
28. P.H. Monk, Adolescent-to-Parent Violence: A Qualitative Analysis of Emerging Themes. (Unpublished thesis, University of British Columbia, 1997).
29. Peek, Fischer and Kidwell, 1985.
30. M.G. Wells, “Adolescent Violence Against Parents: An Assessment,” Family Therapy, 14, 2 (1987): 125-133.
In some cases, teenagers react abusively when they have been abused or when they have been exposed to the abuse of one of their parents by his or her partner. (65,66)
65. A. Duffy and J. Momirov, Family Violence: A Canadian Introduction (Toronto: James Lorimer and Company, 1997).
66. Geffner, Jaffe and Sudermann, 2000.
Sometimes the teenager directs the abuse towards the non-offending parent. In some families or communities, physical, emotional, or verbal abuse is used as a method of communication; if it has been occurring for years or generations, it may have become normalized behaviour. In other cases, permissive or absent parenting may contribute to the teenager’s abusive behaviour. (67-71)
67. A. Ambert, Parents, Children, and Adolescents: Interactive Relationships and Development in Context (New York, NY: Hayworth Press, 1997).
68. Barkley, 1998.
69. Monk, 1997.
70. Omer, 2000.
71. Price, 1996.
When parents do not demonstrate adequate or appropriate leadership in their families, the teens may act out because they do not feel safe.(72-77)
72. Agnew and Huguley, 1989.
73. Charles, 1986.
74. Harbin and Madden, 1979.
75. J.A. Micucci, “Adolescents Who Assault Their Parents: A Family Systems Approach to Treatment,” Psychotherapy,
32, 1 (1995): 154-161.
76. P. Ney and D. Mulvihill, “Case Report on Parent Abuse,” Victimology, 7, 1-4 (1982): 194-198.
77. Omer, 2000.
In these cases, however, parents often state that the abuse occurs when they attempt to regain leadership by enforcing rules or consequences. (78,79)
78. Cottrell, 2001.
79. Monk, 1997.
When parents use “gentle” attempts, such as reasoning, to encourage their aggressive teenager to stop the abuse, they are often ignored or treated with contempt.
However, abusive teenagers often react even more aggressively if parents use force, and a vicious circle of mutual retaliation evolves. It is sometimes useful to gain the support of others to deal with the abuse in a non-violent way. (89)
89. Omer, 2000.
Both permissive / absent parenting and corporal punishment / yelling are factors that contributes to the erosion of the parent-child relationship and may lead to family violence to parent abuse. Of course, most parents who use punishment, spanking or yelling aren't "abusing" their children - let it be really clear here that I am not accusing any parent who occasionally yells or use spanking of being abusers. The cases in this study are extreme because they are studying actual case of parental abuse, which leads them to analyze extreme practices from parents. However, these practices, when used mildly, may not lead to actual violence, but still do erode the parent-child relationship on the long run.
Parents must teach their children how to handle their strong emotions and how to handle their anger and frustration in acceptable and respectful ways. But they cannot do this if they aren't doing it for themselves first. They must learn new ways to better communicate with their kids, in a healthy, respectful and acceptable way, before they can teach this essential skill to their kids. And in order for them to learn this, they must first recognize the damage that permissiveness on the one hand, and yelling, punishing and spanking practices on the other hand, does on a child's development: one must be convinced there is a problem before they can be motivated to solve it. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/9/2009 10:52:24 PM | Extreme parenting can cause damage to the development of a child in my opinion both as a parent and as someone who has known many people in my lifetime...lol.
Extreme permissiveness (jelly-fish parenting) teaches kids they aren't accountable to anyone ... usually end up having major issues in structured environments (like school) and have problems with authority figures.
Extreme punishment (brick wall parenting) teaches kids that they have no control...they are controlled through fear...future victims.
Personally I try to be more of a middle of the road, non-extremist parent (back bone parent). I am firm but fair.
Have I yelled at my children? Yes I have but rarely and usually only when there is an immenent physical danger to them but occassionally because I'm frustrated (in which case, I end up apologizing to them).
Have I spanked my children? Yes only a handful of times before I decided it wasn't effective and caused us way too much grief.
Have I used 1-2-3 magic and timeouts? Yes and if done correctly (not in anger and followed up with effective communication with between us) they can be effective but not after the age of 3/4 in my experience.
Once you can have a conversation with your child and they are able to participate in the conversation, I have found it more beneficial to use communication at the moment they do something that I don't approve of.
Being consistent with my expectation and the boundaries I've set when they are young and the boundaries we agree to when they are older is THE most effective parenting tool I have at my disposal.
Children who misbehave, don't do it because they want to...they just don't have the skills to do better...it is our job to teach them, to guide them, to mentor them, to help them to grow and develop in a healthy way.
We are the best models they have for how to act......our influence on them is huge....we should all try to remember that "children learn what they live"..... | |
|
| |
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/11/2009 1:52:37 AM | Yes, from what i read, permissiveness in parenting is also a definite factor in the abuse of elderly parents by their adult children. Lack of boundaries and permissiveness cause children to develop narcissic traits, amongst other negative effects. What I said about the cycle of violence in families still stands: both permissiveness and spanking leads to these tendancies. They aren't mutually exclusive. A parent can choose not to spank, yell or punish without falling onto the opposite extreme: firm boundaries and assertive parenting can still be applied without the use of any of these practices.
~ Conscioussoul ~
Here is one experience I can share with you from a child's point of view, that child being me and what my perception was of the boundaries. Before you reply CS, keep in mind my parents were happily married until my Dad passed six years ago.
I had firm parents who encouraged and supported me in all of my endeavours. I was showered with praise for small acts and gestures of compassion and kindness that weren't something my parents had to provoke me to do...
I was spanked occassionally, especially when I crossed "a boundary" or displayed a narcissic attitude and willful disobiedience....up until I was 9 or 10 years old..
I learned, with the love and patience of my parents how to behave in an acceptable manner so I could be successful as an adult and what society would tolerate or condone. That is something I am still learning as I parent my kids.
In my experience as a child, I don't think that the "evil eye" I got from accross the room at times or the two-syllibal warnings my parents gave me while out, would have been as effective as it was if they had never ingrained into me what was appropriate behaviour.
I don't see the distinction in your arguements CS, between a parent who is permissive and a parent who is assertive and the disciplinarion. Sounds like both are bad in your theories?
It is pretty black and grey..:)..For those of us that are actually parenting kids and trying to teach them how NOT to be a victim of society today...and what behaviour isn't tolerated...and WHAT it takes to survive.
As an adult you quickly learn and adapt to the theory that every choice has an immediate consequence to it...good or bad....that my friend is a lesson that should be taught long before it needs to be learned.
I have spanked all of my kids...but I am sure it hurt me more than it did them.
I have yelled at my kids ( do probably too much)...but my kids know I wouldn't put the effort into being a pain in their butt if I didn't care....
I have apologized to all of my kids for loosing my temper and overreacting...and they forgive me after I tell them I am only human and have feelings too!
If you all will allow me to "brag" a moment about the kids I have raised with the terrible parenting methods I have used in raising them....
My two boys had very long hair..I hated it and wanted them to cut it off for the last 6 years..We have a neighbour who's child is undergoing treatment for lukemnia..she has lost her hair and is only 6 years old. My boys stepped up and donated their hair to a foundation that makes wigs for children in similiar situations....I didn't have to spank, yell or shame my boys into doing this generous act....but it was something I have rewarded them for...
If am yelling...that is a very clear indication to my kids that I am unhappy with their behaviour and it will not be tolerated. They know (as I did growing up) that the best way to remedy my dissapointment is for them to come and talk to me about the situation. I surprise them sometimes...and admitt I can be wrong too! | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/11/2009 5:33:30 AM | People don't just END UP fine or otherwise. Whilst I am million light years away to advice someone to yell at anyone, child or otherwise, unless in danger etc, we all are responsible for what we do with our upbringing and we cannot continue to blame the parents and neither are the greatest things in us necessarily there thanks to them. Sometimes we had to develop those in spite of them. We all have ability to shape ourselves.
Most of people I know had less than perfect parenting, yet I know nobody who abuses their elderly parents. I prefer to go by my actual experiences rather than studies. CS admits that this study is about outright abusive cases and hopefully any reasonable person would have to agree that occassional yelling is far away from that. Again this is NOT to suggest that it is better to yell, spank etc. Only that things are FAR more complex than that. Many people I know, and I would like to count myself amongst them, turned the crap they were given into something good and I think that is the way it is supposed to be. Moreover - again going by my own experience, people normally have a desire to fix things. Normally we don't damn someone forever. THAT would bring far more problems than occassional mistakes we all must make like it or not. Things can sometimes also be fixed years later after they were damaged. Life does not handle you in kid gloves all the time and your parents are part of that. Often the most difficult things are our greatest teachers.
I would like to also point out that nobody is going to convince anybody of anything and neither they need to. Everybody is free to do as they please and take away from what you have to say whatever they want or not. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/11/2009 8:51:56 AM | [/]I would like to also point out that nobody is going to convince anybody of anything and neither they need to. Everybody is free to do as they please and take away from what you have to say whatever they want or not.[/]
Nicccee Pixie...though it may be lost...Great post!
Is yelling at our kids wrong? Maybe...but we are human. We are gloriously flawed.
CS, what do your studies say about that? I would much rather see a post on responsibility and accountability. Some of us end up doing things with our kids, that we never thought we would do with them, including up to the moment it occurs! Why? Because we are human, and so are our kids. Many times in life we come up with the realizastion that runs along the lines of..What was I thinking? or How did this happen, right under my nose? Responsibility, accountability and owning our actions. There is not enough of that these days with parents wanting to be best friends, instead of parents, and the need to feed the me...immediate gratification thought process.
It is how we handle what we did, that the greatest lessons occur, for both human, parent and child! This, is where moments are born, and remembered.
T. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/12/2009 9:32:23 AM | | I've been with a man for 3 years and we have 2 children, and i can tell you that yelling is not a way to fix things. He used to yell at our kids all the time and my 2 year old thinks its normal and avoids it now. I know its going to be really hard to try and get the kids back into their normal routein but you have to try to avoid the situation before hand and make it known that you are mommy and what rules you have are going to be followed....try time out.... or something that they really enjoy having take until they show good behaveour... I spend a lot of time with my children and that isnt good either because now i cant even go to the bathroom without my 2 yr old, so you need mommy time and "self" time, every now and then she speaks about her father but i avoid the situation and talk about something different and if that dont work i make her play with different things that she likes. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/12/2009 9:36:27 AM | | You are right in some sense but the thing is raise you voice and be stern about it....and most people dont scream at their kids, its not right they dont know the difference until you teach them right from wrong...yes i raise my voice to my daugther but i dont yell at her, for the simple fact of what we went through living with her father....But you are completely right what parent doesnt yell at some point or another in life ? if they dont there is something completely wrong with them. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/12/2009 9:39:45 AM | | This is what i hate the most...how can a book tell you how to raise your children ? its just suggestions and every child is different. I'm taking care of my kids how i want to and how i think is right. no person or book is going to tell me how to raise them, yes im up for suggestions but not answers | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/12/2009 10:59:47 AM |
This is what i hate the most...how can a book tell you how to raise your children ? its just suggestions and every child is different. I'm taking care of my kids how i want to and how i think is right. no person or book is going to tell me how to raise them, yes im up for suggestions but not answers
And the ones who perhaps scoff and will not listen or read the books because it does not follow their perceptions of what is or is not good parenting strategies.
But i was always taught to read and explore both sides of a discussion or an issue so that an informed decision might be reached.
Glad to hear you are 19....and with 2 children....I think more than a few people felt they knew the right course of action and would never listen to those who perhaps had greater insight through their experience.
I am myself still on the learning curve. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/12/2009 11:16:42 AM | Anything that makes you feel bad or guilty is probably something you shouldn't do.....I have one son who is 16 now and yes...I yelled at him and very rarely would spank. Looking back at those early years I wish I hadn't, but then again he has become a great young man. Who really knows if we are doing the right or wrong thing most of the time as parents......I just know if I was angry when i did it I always regretted it. Sounds like you are a good mom doing the best you can. Lots of luck and when you do things out of love, how can you go wrong?
m | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/12/2009 8:38:49 PM | First, you should try to figure out why do you have to yell. Why does normal volume of your voice not bring about the desired response from your child? For the most part I can tell you that it probably has nothing to do with the lack of bounderies at the fathers house. I see this same behavior in children being picked up from a sitter all the time. It has more to do with the transition of authority. A child wants to know " who is in charge of me now, who is going to correct me." Your child also has a lot of emotional and chemical stimulation going on in his mind at this time. Children have a tendency to bounce from one object or attraction to the next in refamiliarizing themselves with there surroundings. I know my children do this even as often as every time we get in the car to go somewhere. They have to touch and explore evrything before they can sit down in their seats.
A child of 3 or 4 has a fully functioning brain with an inquisitive overdrive. Often if a child dosen't respond to a normal volume, we think that they heard us but choose to ignore us. The reality is that they get so engrossed with their own thoughts that eveything else gets tuned out. Even if they show signs of hearing your voice, it dose not mean that there is any mental processing going on. If you are like most people who yell at their children, the main purpose is to get their attention. It is as simple as this. You yell to break through their concentated mental process already in progress. The problem with this, as you are finding out, is that children become accustomed to the volume, so you have to continue getting louder and louder. Then when the child is in danger, you have no way of getting their attention because they have tuned you completely out.
The solution to this requires very little effort, but more effort than shouting. Get their attention by (here is the hard part) go to them; gently take their face in your hands and pull it to yours; make solid eye contact with them( don't speak to them yet because their eyes are going to dart back to what their mind is still focused on); pull their face back to yours; give them a smile; start a conversation with them; don't start correcting their behavior until you are sure that you have their attention fully; if they start to wander bring them gently back; end with a reassuring hug, kiss, 'I love you". Keep in your mind that you may have to do this more than once. Maybe just as many times as you had to yell. But in the end you will notice a marked change in your relationship with your child and over time you will have that yelling thing available for when there is danger to them and you really need to get their attention fast.
I do spank my children still( boys 3&4) but I do so in a simular manner. When all else fails and they simply want to try the bounderies to see where they are or if they are still there, I will sit down call them over to me ( by this time they realize they went to far) explain to them where they went wrong; spank them on the bottom; and as always end the discipline with a hug, kiss, I love you before tuning them loose to do what they are supposed to be doing.
As a parent we always have to be prepared to change tactics and discontinue any discipline that obviously dose not work. Smacking a child upside his head, yelling all of the time, or grabbing them roughly are really quick methods of gettig their attention, but I would have to say they are counter productive, will teach your children improper ways of dealing with others, and quite possibly destroy your childs self confidence and self esteam.    | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/12/2009 10:30:27 PM | But i was always taught to read and explore both sides of a discussion or an issue so that an informed decision might be reached.~Tealwood ~
^^^
 ...so what tealwood...it didn't stick?...practice what you preach!.....I could stay up all night copying and pasting.....honestly... | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/13/2009 4:20:06 AM | | I really like your post William. I disagree with the spanking though, as I am sure that everything else you do gets the message accross beautifully and sufficiently, so i think that part is redundant. | |
|
| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/13/2009 4:36:06 AM |
I am a single mum of a 4 year old boy. Before I get into the subject of my post I will give you some background to try to help you understand.
My son goes to his dad's every second weekend. His dad has absolutly no rules at him place. My son gets away with whatever he wants. When he comes home it takes a while to get him back into "home" routine and he can be very naughty and not listen to me. Now to my question.
I am completly opposed to smacking.
Recently I was seeing a guy who broke up with me because I yelled at my son. This man does not have children. I admit I do yell at him when he is naughty and doesn't listen but I don't see a problem with this. I think it is better than hitting. Obviously neither would be best but when he comes back from his dads and I can't get him to listen any other way I feel that yelling works.
What do other parents think about this?
I would really like to know other parents thoughts.
First, I seriously doubt that the reason the guy broke up w/ you was your yelling at your son. That is...unless you were completely out of control or name-calling.
He was probably looking for an "out"..and that gave him one.
Better off w/o him.
Second...unless you lose control or use name-calling or verbally abusive tactics...there's nothing wrong w/ yelling at your kids.Kids are pretty resilient and if they know that you love them, then they'll be OK.
Third...people w/o kids...why do you insist on giving parenting advice? You have decided not to take on the job yourself...what then makes you an expert?
Unless I'm giving you advice on how to spend all that money you are saving by not having children...don't give me unsolicited child-rearing "tips."
We'll both be happier. | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
