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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/14/2009 9:22:46 AM | | i have to say it is hilarious listening to people with no children giving 'advice' on how to raise children perfectly, you have no clue until you bring them up yourself what it is like to raise children but thanks for keepin me amused anyhow lol | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/14/2009 11:10:55 AM | OK -
I had to post to this....
#1 Hitting and yelling ARE BOTH WRONG.
Of course, no one is perfect, but a child WILL never respond in the way in which you want them to, if you yell.
People, especially our loved ones, get damaged and psychologically hurt and those scars some of them take years to heal. Some scars NEVER go away.
Try to get creative in your discipline.
Tell you son, Daddy and I have different rules...in my house you can do this, you may NOT do this....etc.
Make him understand that THERE is a reason, you are no longer with the father, but in a loving manner....NEVER speak derogatorily to the children about the other parent.
Remember, your son is physically and mentally half your ex.
You loved him enough at one time to have a child with...so therefore, you must think of a civil way to get your point across.
Just my take on this ... believe I have two households and go through the same thing.
A minor is not able to determine what is best for them. Therefore, you need to be a good parent and re-inforce through positive behavior, that there are usually 3 or 4 ways different ways of DOING something..ALL ways may be right to one person and wrong to another.
When someone misbehaves, it is because they are attention starved...defiance is A RESULT of unmet needs and deep seated issues.
Love your child, and then when you find that they do something wrong, get down to his level and whisper sweetie, not like that like this.
Only if they are in the middle of the street or on the pier and you have to push them out of the way, of an oncoming car, do you have the RIGHT to yell.
I had that happen to me with my son, who is now 13 and able to make his own choices and fall on his face if he wants to.
Just my opinion.
Janet
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/14/2009 11:40:58 PM | Children: The Challenge. Rudolf Dreikurs.
This book changed my concept of parenting completely. Check it out from the library if you don't want to pay a couple of bucks to buy it online.
Yelling does not work. Your son is playing you like a song. | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/15/2009 4:11:49 AM | Yes yelling is wrong you will fnd it better to bring your self down to his leavel and tell him that his behaviour is not aseptable and put him on a naughty chair of mat for four minits every minit of his age and ive him rewards when he has a weeks worth and give him a little treat at the end of the week. If he missbehaves take one away....
The reward could be the weekend that he dose not visit his dad he maybe able to have a friend over to play or a video or what ever but he needs to earn these... Also get him to help with a few little chorse around the place.... Ask him to help with baking and putting the forks and knifes on the table and little thing like this....You and him will have so much fun at the end of it and he will be looking forward to comeing home.   | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/15/2009 3:51:17 PM |
I would like to also point out that nobody is going to convince anybody of anything and neither they need to. Everybody is free to do as they please and take away from what you have to say whatever they want or not.[/]
Nicccee Pixie...though it may be lost...Great post!
Is yelling at our kids wrong? Maybe...but we are human. We are gloriously flawed.
CS, what do your studies say about that? I would much rather see a post on responsibility and accountability. Some of us end up doing things with our kids, that we never thought we would do with them, including up to the moment it occurs! Why? Because we are human, and so are our kids. Many times in life we come up with the realizastion that runs along the lines of..What was I thinking? or How did this happen, right under my nose? Responsibility, accountability and owning our actions. There is not enough of that these days with parents wanting to be best friends, instead of parents, and the need to feed the me...immediate gratification thought process.
It is how we handle what we did, that the greatest lessons occur, for both human, parent and child! This, is where moments are born, and remembered.
T.
Let me say right up front that I've yelled at my son and I've spanked him. And I've hugged him in moments of anguish and disobedience, and I've prayed over him and with him. But I think what scares him the most is my quiet, stern, severe voice that can curl wallpaper. Every situation is different and parenting relies on being adaptable. Do i have a great son? Yeah, the best. And the last time I had to punish him I (as to differ from discipline which think of as an internal character trait), this past weekend I also told him as I was punishing him that I couldn't imagine having a better son than him and that I was as proud of him as I could be but that the behavior in question had to stop. [teen rebellion stuff, no big deal, but it's talk and behavior that if left unchecked will cause problems later in life.]
All I've got is this one surviving son so I don't have a lot of differing experiences, but I do know that the one son I've been blessed with is just that: a blessing. And, Lord help me, I haven't and wont mess that up too much.
TK | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/15/2009 4:38:35 PM |
I don't see the distinction in your arguements CS, between a parent who is permissive and a parent who is assertive and the disciplinarion. Sounds like both are bad in your theories? (lizbeth2)
Yes, both are damaging to a child development - although we would have to agree first on the meaning behind the words. Let me clarify:
- On the one hand, punishment, control, put downs, time-outs, yelling, and generally enforcing behaviors by the carrot and stick method erodes the parent-child relationship, renders the child's perception of being loved to a conditional love, and hinders maturation.
- On the other hand, laissez-faire, letting a child decide, not having boundaries or letting a child break established boundaries, letting the child decide what is good for himself, not having any caregiver-dependency relationship being established, or even not caring for a child and letting him do as he please, is equally if not even more damaging for a child.
- So what did I learn so far in my studies and readings? That it's possible to be respected, to have boundaries, to teach, to be present and assertive, without the need for any carrot, praise, reward, nor any stick - be it punishment, time-out, put down or anything of the like. That you must preserve your child's dignity. That all behavior problems have a root cause. That no behavior can be "changed" in a truly deep way unless it's root cause was addressed. And that to address it, it requires a lot of listening, empathy and open mind, and the ability for a parent NOT to see what his child is now but to see what the child's potential is.
All of these are what a child needs best to develop mentally to maturity - both because they learn by example and because they need unconditional love.
Is yelling at our kids wrong? Maybe...but we are human. We are gloriously flawed. CS, what do your studies say about that? I would much rather see a post on responsibility and accountability. (takemeaziam)
Actually, Takemeaziam, I am completely in agreement with you here.
It is critical to show kids we are not afraid to be ourselves, be natural, own your mistake, be accountable.. and it start as we give the example. So, it's not so much the yelling in itself that is a problem. It's when the parent is trying to justify the yelling as a mean to "educate". It's when the adult yells and doesn't see the damage it creates. It's OK to be human: it's ok to make a mistake, say I am sorry and ask forgiveness for that. And it paves the way for the child to learn to say sorry and ask for forgiveness when he does it. It's very different, because it does not teach a child that yelling is an acceptable way to communicate, on the contrary.
Thank you for posting that comment! | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/18/2009 9:12:24 AM | Conscioussoul
Hopefully you are still keeping tabs on this thread. I had to come in here and tell me that this thread has literally changed my life and that of my children. And I am deeply in gratitude to you for that.
I have to tell you, at this point in your studies and training, the way you deliver your message has some fairly siginifcant problems that hopefully will be resolved as you continue your training/studies. And I can say that as someone who, very recently was equally guilty of very poor delivery of an equally important message.
That notwithstanding, your posts made me do some serious re-evaluating and research on the subject of positive parenting and non-punitive discipline vs punitive. I will totally admit, I was entirely pissed off with you and your statements about what certain disciplinary methods "will" result in, in terms of emotional and developmental outcomes. I was a big fan of time out, reward charts, positive reinforcement etc etc. And the way you delivered your information and beliefs left me feeling very defensive and more than a little outraged.
Frankly, my reasearch was initiated so I could 'prove you wrong' and justify my parenting choices as being in my children's best interests. Well, you will no doubt be surprised that 'proving you wrong' is not at all where I have ended up.
Needless to say, I have already begun transitioning my strategies with my kids from the punitive discipline/reward/positive reinforcement/bribery model to the positive/aware/conscious parenting type model. My kids have had their last time out and I will never 'ignore' or worse, punish a tantrum again.
So I want to thank you. And for anyone else reading this and is willing to entertain that whilst what we do with our kids might be "fine"/socially acceptable/the norm and done with only loving intentions, that there might be in fact a much better version of "fine" for both us and our kids, I would strongly urge you to have a read of what's out there. I had no idea and it totally blew me away.
And if you're like me and like something that has some robust research/evidence based support, particularly when it comes to any claim that something might be damaging to a child, then you won't be disappointed. Also if you think advice on better parenting is only credible if it comes from an experienced parent, once again you won't be disappointed. Alongside their PhDs, academic, reasearch and scientific credentials, the proponents of positive parenting I have come across so far also offer plenty of hands on parenting experience to the mix as well.
Oh and PS., I didn't use CS's list of references as my guidelines or even starting point. I just stuck "time out" and "children" in a search engine and went from there.
All the best with your studies Conscioussoul. | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/18/2009 9:58:27 AM | Hello MePlusTwo,
Thank you for your letter and also for the constructive criticism about how I present what I learned to the people on the forums. I know I still have a lot of work to put on how to best present it to people, and I also know that forums and written medium aren't the best to help people. So I appreciate every comment and advice that would help me approach this in a more constructive way.
This thread has literally changed my life and that of my children. And I am deeply in gratitude to you for that.
If it made a difference in only but one life, then I feel like it was worth all the time and effort to write and all the attacks I have had from many parents. I wish the very best for your children and you :)
So I want to thank you. And for anyone else reading this and is willing to entertain that whilst what we do with our kids might be "fine"/socially acceptable/the norm and done with only loving intentions, that there might be in fact a much better version of "fine" for both us and our kids, I would strongly urge you to have a read of what's out there. I had no idea and it totally blew me away.
Surprisingly enough, what you describe here is exactly what happened to me 2 years ago. I started reading and researching what was the various school of thoughts in child studies and it blow me away. I couldn't believe it... and the more I read about it to prove it wrong, the more I realized how flawed our conventional wisdom about child rearing is. That's when I recently decided I wanted to know more, and start helping people professionally. Hence the studies.
Thank you for posting this!  | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/18/2009 10:39:59 AM | It's always the ones who have never had children or were coddled and spoiled as children who react that way.
Yelling is a lot better than physical abuse. I work for a child protection agency and I can tell you that it depends on what you are yelling. Children are not just physically abused. The wrong words can cause PTSD and worse. As long as you don't swear at or demean you child (i.e. calling him names, telling him he's stupid, putting down the other parent to him, etc.) there is nothing wrong with yelling.
Some parents grab their children and yell directly into their faces which can be damaging, not only to their emotions but also to their hearing.
Just step back, take a breath, count to ten, whatever works for you. Depending on the age of the child, sometimes explaining that Daddy is the boss at his house but you're the boss at yours, is enough when it's expained enough times. Yes, it takes more than once. Most children have short attention spans for many years so they really do forget rules and what you tell them.
I had to do a lot of yelling when my children were small as well. One has ADHD & ODD. Good luck. You can do it. | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/18/2009 4:12:16 PM | Yes but it is also understandable sometimes.
Very much a question of degree and context.
If your kid is doing something where you absolutely have to get their immediate attention a yell is possibly the only tool you have at that moment in time to aver a ptnetial disaster. If you routinely scream at the poor little things when you need that "tool" it aint gonna work. | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/18/2009 4:15:10 PM | True, but I also think that it is easy for parents to dismiss good advice when it suits them.
We all need reminding of the way things should be done in theory (asssuming that theory is correct or at least one of several accepted theories) and you dont have to be an actual parent to do that. We have all been on the of some form of parenting as children too, and that in itself qualifies people without kids to add something significant to a debate. | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/18/2009 4:26:04 PM | Rules, Structure and Routine..
You should be Co Parenting with your EX and seeing your child stays with you 95% of the time HE should be going along with you..
I don't YELL I speak firmly !!
The first time Its No, then a quick time out.
Second time NO with a less then quick time out
Third time NO !!! with a little longer time out.
Hitting is wrong, But Hurting there feelings isn't
Both my boys 11 and 2 know when dad speaks, Its time to listen and after a week of time outs every 7 minutes my 2 year old hasn't been to time out in 3 months.. Not saying im perfect, I don't run my home like a boot camp, But I Run IT !!! and they know it.
Terrible 2's LOL thats not happening | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/18/2009 7:39:02 PM |
I would really like if you could elaborate on the rational behind this affirmation? (conscioussoul)
Have you ever been told NO and had something taken away from you ?
I didn't mean hurting there feelings like your thinking... Not like telling someone they are ugly or fat.. | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/18/2009 8:07:36 PM | Have you ever been told NO and had something taken away from you ? Yes. And it did not "hurt my feelings". It made me cross or frustrated or resentful; not at all the same thing. And no doubt the same goes for a child.
But that is not really what you seemed to be talking about (ie saying no and having something taken away). My reading of it was that you believe that your regime of time out may hurt their feelings but that that is ok. So perhaps you mean then that time out may make them cross, frustrated or angry, but that that is ok?
The only thing is, time out may also make them feel a lot of other things about themselves and you; things much more along the lines of having told them they are "ugly" or "fat".
Not saying im perfect, I don't run my home like a boot camp, But I Run IT !!! and they know it. You have made a specific choice about the relationship you want with your kids; one with the understanding that it is most definitely you who has all the power and them that must tow the line or else. A very common model. And time out fits nicely in it.
I have never gone with the "I am the boss and you'll do as I say" type model. That was always instinctively something I knew wasn't the best for my family. But I was right there with you on the effectiveness of time outs and what I thought their emotional impacts were on my children (ie.that they were "learning" and that there was no "harm" being done). Given you likely background, age and where you live (ie. like me, you were brought up with very "traditional" methods of discipline; maybe much more extreme than your own choices and you probably come from a position of "I am fine", so there's nothing wrong with these methods), why would you even stop to question if there might be even better methods or an even better relationship with your kids? I sure didn't. The phrase "if it ain't broke, why fix it?" is the one that comes to mind, yes?
CS (and now me; sheesh, I really am a glutton for punishment!) and I are only suggesting that perhaps there is a model that might lead to an even better realtionship with your kids and more importantly, even better outcomes for them in terms of their journey in life. That's all.
I guess we're starting to think more 'long term'. Punitive discipline may well be entirely effective in keeping 'law and order' in the house. In the heat of the moment, it is absolutely effective at putting a stop to 'bad behaviour'. But I don't know that we think enough about it in the 'big picture'. What kind of kids are we raising? Will they have learnt how to cooperate and negotiate effectively? What will their self esteem levels be like? Where will their locus of self-control and motiviation be? Will it be reliant on others telling them what to do? Will they be "praise junkies", only motivated to do something when there is a praise/reward payoff at the end. Will they learn that those closest to you only love you and respect you if you are being "good"? And what will that mean about their own interpersonal relationships? These are the things I've started to ask myself.
Plus I have also started to think a lot more about the short-medium term. My relationship with them, how they perceive the way I love and respect them and how much they trust me will be absolutely critical in years to come when they start to be faced with the very powerful social pressures - drugs, alcohol, sex, academic challenges. I am starting to see that the more they are in a place where they know I will love them unconditionally, even when they make poor choices (and no, that does mean those choices will be "ok"), that I respect them as people and that I can be trusted as a person to talk to and most importantly, that they feel empowered as people (which will allow them to say "no" when it counts, because there's no need to act out in order to feel in control or powerful if you have already learnt you have have control and power in your life), the less likely it is that they are going to make the destructive choices. It is highly likely they will be much happier and prosperous teenagers and adults.
Look, in the heat of the moment, and when you need the chaos to stop, who the hell cares about any of that, right? Can this one time out/yelling at them/etc really be that powerful as to reflect on their whole peronality and well being? Probably not. But if it's an ongoing strategy, the cumulative effect may well have that power. That's we're I'm starting to come from. It's a massive cultural shift. And very confronting on a personal level. I have felt far from comfortable about my strategies to date since thinking about them in this context. And I have never ever hit or yelled at my children. So I thought I was doing pretty good. | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/18/2009 9:00:31 PM | | The only time would be when you state their name to get their attention. After that you can sit them down and talk about the situation. Then have them come up with a solution to the problem that casued the issue. If they can not find the answer, you can suggest" what would happen if we try this" questions. That way they will better understand if that situation comes up again. They will know what the best thing to do is and everybody is happy. | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 4/18/2009 10:01:32 PM | MePlusTwo:
CS and I are only suggesting that perhaps there is a model that might lead to an even better relationship with your kids and more importantly, even better outcomes for them in terms of their journey in life. That's all.
Thank you for the really great way you are expressing the concept of positive parenting, I can see I definitely have to learn from that :)
Btw I tried to email you but your filters prevented me. Could you email me? I'd be really curious to know which authors and studies you ended up finding in your own research. | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 5/24/2009 8:39:51 PM | | Yelling is bad. Google it up. As a child growing up, my mom yelled at me always. The result was that I don't listen to her anymore. Children learn to ignore it. I did. There are so many reason's to this...but as your child moves to an older age, they take it as insult...and they yell back at you. Try getting help from a councellor before everything goes downhill. goodluck | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 5/25/2009 10:17:16 AM | I also am a single mum with a 4 year old boy and I have the same problem. The answer to your question is when your son comes home and is not listening you take him out side and tell him in a calm voice that this is your house and that when he is with you that your rules apply not his fathers. You tell him that when he is ready to leave all the naughty things he does and the not listening out side your door then he can come in.
I have done this many times and it works he knows this is mums house and not dads and there are rules at mums. This is not somthing that you will have to do just once but is should work
Good Luck | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 5/25/2009 9:52:58 PM | Its probably not dad at all...kids generally test boundaries. In fact we all do. Routines are not for weekend visits. They are merely visits. Any judge knows this. Perhaps if you want your kid and his dad to have a routine maybe you can expand your childs time with dad so they can get into one. | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 5/27/2009 4:27:17 AM |
You should be Co Parenting with your EX and seeing your child stays with you 95% of the time HE should be going along with you..
The implication of this statement implies that it is Dad is responsible because Mom can't control her anger and feels the need to yell at her child and that Mom is the obviously best parent for this child.
Mom needs some anger management classes if she can't find other ways of dealing with her child besides yelling at him and perhaps counselling to get over her need to control things (if the coparenting is an issue for her).
Why should a father be punished because of something that happens between Mom and child when he is not even there??????!!!!! | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 5/27/2009 5:01:55 PM | | Everyone here has great arguments. Although, has anyone asked what was being yelled about? I wouldn't constantly yell at a child just because he back-talked or ignored his mother. But there are extreme cases with many children, when what the child is doing is extremely dangerous to himself or others. If you have a child that repeatedly goes for something, after being told over and over not to do that because of the danger, then sometimes taking a firm hold on the child and raising your voice is the only thing that will call the seriousness of the situation to the child's attention. I'd rather have a startled child, with possible hurt feelings, than a dead child. I've been there and done that many times. I raised to very active and stubborn boys who are now young adults and I, myself, am one of seven children. I've seen lots of good parenting and lots of mistakes. The occasional yelling does not do permanent damage as long as it does not include insults and such. I stress "occasional." | |
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| Discipline - Is yelling at your children wrong?
Posted: 5/27/2009 5:04:49 PM | | Constant yelling is abuse. My stepmother yelled every single day. I used to worry about having kids because I was afraid I would yell at them, but alas, luckily the opposite is true. | |
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