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| Mannors among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 2/28/2009 6:12:30 AM | I agree with Moraima's original post. Why is it necessary to say you have good manners in your profile? Of course I have issues with many of the "I" statements in profiles that are wholly unnecessary:
"My kids come first." No sh**?
I don't like drama. Who does?
I am funny. I'll be the judge of that.
I am a great catch. Same
I am a gentleman/lady. Same
I read the entire thread so I have bits and pieces to comment on.
Funny how many claim to have good manners and then pick at others who contribute to the thread. Which etiquette book are you reading?
I was raised that the lady orders her meal before the man, unless there is a large group and it's easier to go in a circle. I would be slightly taken aback if a man ordered my meal for me since I may have a special request for the server. However, I would not say anything at that moment, but would speak up and make my changes immediately. If the man didn't pick up that I'd prefer to order my own meal, then I would deal with that at the next dining event.
I hold the door open for anyone, whether they have their hands full or not. I have never witnessed anyone getting mad about that, nor have I ever heard from any male I know that they were similarly attacked for being decent. Methinks some men use that tired old excuse to avoid being polite at the door.
I have dated some very "mannerly" gentlemen this year, however I've noticed one trait among them that negates the car door opening, helping on with the coat, etc. These men had the habit of being very dominant in conversation, often advising me of how something should be handled with absolutely no input from me that I needed or wanted to know how to proceed. I will and do ask for advice on any number of things, but would prefer these men with manners not tell me how I should be doing something that has been working for me successfully for years. | |
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| Mannors among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 2/28/2009 6:14:27 AM | manners are taught and learned from your childhood. In my family the women are respected and kids are taught that elders and women deserve respect..We don't use the f-bomb, help each other, open doors, pull chairs out..etc....we were a poor average family but raised with respect.
When dating someone who doesn't expect the polite manners they usually are charmed by my respect..Don't know any other way.. | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 2/28/2009 8:38:43 AM | I am not nor do I need to play games. You don't get to demand answer here from anyone.
Compliance is not guaranteed in the threads.
Trying to make other comply never works out well.
Being angry usually bring out the biggest lack of manners. Many people who are hurting (instead of working on healing) lash out at the opposite sex, and sometimes at both genders. I don't know what they figure that will get them, but it sure isn't manners that they are demonstrating. | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 2/28/2009 9:26:47 AM |
I am not nor do I need to play games. You don't get to demand answer here from anyone.
Nothing like a little hypocrisy, i always say. | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 2/28/2009 7:21:31 PM | "Nothing like a little hypocrisy, i always say. "
You know not what you say especially in my case.
Passive-aggressive posting in a manners among the over 45 yr. olds. Interesting demonstration. | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 2/28/2009 8:39:34 PM | In my world, respect is earned....not just given. Same thing goes for trust.
You know not what you say especially in my case.
I know exactly what i'm saying. You expect me to answer your question while refusing to answer mine. Hypocrisy...look it up.
As for manners....i have plenty. This includes thanking the person who bagged my groceries, and i've NEVER heard anyone but myself do so. I don't follow the flock as far as opening doors and pulling out chairs for women. They're equals and they have two hands.
Yup, this goes against custom, goes against the crowd too. But then, i never have nor ever will , follow the crowd. | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/1/2009 12:17:22 AM | Well speaking of eloquence my dear desertgeek :
It's HOW and WHY you don't open her door that speaks volumes.
That is exactly what I was trying to say but you phrased it much more clearly. | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/1/2009 12:23:31 AM | islade58,
Right On Brother!
The world has changed in the past 40 - 50 years. Norms from back then are history.
Women use to respect men and men use to respect women.
Now, women don't have any respect for men, so why should men have any respect for women?
Ok, Ladies, how many of you put n your profiles that your are a LADY?
Please tell me, how is a lady to act?
There use to be norms for ladies. However, I have not seen a woman act like a lady for years.
I ask, when was the last time anyone has seen a female curtsie when they are introduced to a man?
For that matter, when is the last time you seen a woman in a dress or skirt?
Now Ladies, be honest, have you taught your daughters to curtsie?
How many dresses/skirts do you ladies own?
The ladies have disapeared in our American society and so has the gentelmen.
I use to be a perfect gentelman 35 years ago (in the 70's). When I went out on a date, I always got dressed up in a suit, brought flowers, was polite when I met their parents, helped her with her coat, held the door open for her, took them to a nice restruant and then a play or movie, then rushed to open the door for her, walked her to her door, give her a short kiss and went home without expecting sex and called her the next day.
Do you think I got any respect back from any woman? Heck no!
That was when I was younger. I've learned since then. It doesn't pay.
The guy that goes "Yo! B_tch!" gets more women than any guy who acts like a gentelman.
Thinking back, out of all the women that I have dated (and I've use to date alot), non of them wore a dress or skirt on the date. They all wore blue jeans or other type of pants.
I didn't us to believe it when guyes use to tell me, but I've found out that it is true. If you treat a woman nice, they will think of you as a friend and start treating you like crap. If you treat them like SH&T, they will fall in love with you. It is a fact. I've seen it happen thousands of times. It's a game guys have to play to get the girl. If you don't play that game, you will loose.
The only woman who guys should treat like a lady is their mother.
If you females want a man to act like a gentelman, you need to start acting like a lady.
I have learned from experience. | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/1/2009 12:26:48 AM | I was always brought up to believe good manners were based on an authentic concern, respect and consideration for others. Unfortunately, what I am seeing in today's society is that normal courtesies such are being totally disregarded by some and are even considered as unnecessary and trivial. To me, it's all about "thoughtfullness?" People can say what they want about good manners but it all comes down to courtesy being an act of expression....it defines who we are.
I read somewhere that "rudeness is the imitation of strength practiced by the weak. "....So what are we teaching our children and grandchildren?
...maeflowers
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/1/2009 12:42:00 AM | Going with the flow is what makes men and rivers crooked....so what if the majority of individuals don't show manners...it doesnt mean that if a female isnt a lady a man is excused from being a gentleman...or if a man isnt a gentleman, a female isnt expected to be a lady...so many times on these threads it is said that the opposite sex doesnt do this or that and that is the reason Im doing this...that is an excuse and not a good one...
As far as the lack of manners, there was always a lack of manners with certain groups of people, ...manners were used as a way to reveal your "upbringing". If you didn't have them then those with them would look down on you. I still say it shows your upbringing...however, there are shades of grey everywhere.
I like it when a man is a gentleman, however that term is used loosely in today's society...women dont curtsie and men don't bow. Do you wear a hat when you go out...? Some things in society will die off..unfortunately manners seems to be on the endangered list.
And yes I own two pairs of white ladies gloves...yes I would look totally retarded wearing them out...(they are my mother's and my grandmother's..and one day will be my daughter's) | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/1/2009 6:28:00 AM | "You expect me to answer your question while refusing to answer mine"
I expect no answers to my posts on manners or in other threads. We put opinions out there for people to think about or not.
I think it also depends on what country people come from as to how they view manners. I was brought up in England where manners were strongly stress to children both at home and and school. In fact, we were taught in school to curtsie properly in case Royality visited. | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/1/2009 12:24:34 PM | I found this on a site, just thought this might be a good refresser course for some of the ladies on this thread.
Manners For Women
Part One--As a Single Woman
http://www.literary-liaisons.com/article031.html
by Michelle J. Hoppe
It matters not whether a lady has a title in order to be called a gentlewoman.
Rather, a lady is identified by her behavior. Manners are a compound of spirit and form, and should be part of the education of every person of whatever calling or station in life. They know no social boundaries. True courtesy is the basis of all social conduct and can be learned by all. "Kindness of heart, of nobleness and of courage it true politeness of manner."
So what, then is a gentlewoman? And how does this translate into manners? Let's start at the beginning....
Childhood
A girl learns proper manners early on. The list is endless, from how and when to curtsey, to how to laugh. The laugh, like one's voice, is a test of good breeding and cultivation. It expresses refinement in its intonation. A lady's laugh should be short and unassuming.
Young ladies should also learn to cultivate their memories and learn to express themselves freely so as to be able to converse well.
Adulthood
General Appearance
Here are just a few of the things a lady must keep in mind:
· In walking, a woman's feet should be moderately turned out, the steps should be equal, firm and light. She should avoid a rapid pace, just as she should avoid a slow gait. And never should she shake from side to side when she walks.
· Proper young ladies do not indulge in cosmetics, hair-dyes or other forms of insincerity in personal appearance.
· Ladies do not wear pearls or diamonds in the morning.
Chaperonage
An unmarried young woman, up to the age of thirty, must always accompanied by a chaperone when she goes out. This is to ensure that she is innocent, and to compel others to respect her innocence. It is the chaperone's duty to investigate the background and social standing of bachelors who come into the girl's orbit and keep at bay those who do not pass muster.
Who could chaperone? Only married women could act as chaperones. An unmarried woman could not be alone in a room with a male visitor, even in her own home. Nor could she go anywhere with a man to whom she was not related unless a married gentlewoman or servant accompanied her. The only possible exception to act as chaperone was a governess who, being of genteel birth, was known to be respectable, but represented no matrimonial competition because of her lowly status.
Introductions
A lady should always grant permission for an introduction, unless there is a strong reason for refusing.
When a lady is introduced to a gentleman, she should bow but not give her hand, unless the gentleman is a well-known friend of some member of the family. She may do so as a mark of esteem or respect. A gentleman must not offer to shake hands with a lady until she has made the first movement.
The kiss is the most affectionate form of salutation, but is only proper among near relations and dear friends. It is given on the cheeks or forehead, and rarely in the public eye.
Paying Calls
Under no circumstances could a lady call on a gentleman alone unless she is consulting that gentleman on a professional or business matter.
At the beginning of the Victorian Era, so long as a girl was unmarried and living at home, she had no separate visiting card. This changed by the end of the century. Should she have no mother, the card would bear her own name, along with her sisters if she has some. If a female chaperone is in residence, this woman's name would appear above the girl's name on the card.
Conversations
A good talker should be possessed of much general information, acquired by keen observation, attentive listening, a good memory, and logical habits of thought. Simplicity and terseness are characteristics of a well-educated lady. She never uses vulgarisms, flippancy, coarseness, triviality or provocation in her speech. Scandal is the least excusable of all conversational vulgarities.
A lady is sympathetic, unselfish and animating in her listening. To show any interest in the immediate concerns of people is very complimentary. She must maintain cheerful conversation. Religion and politics should never be introduced into conversation, for they are dangerous subjects to harmony.
In addressing persons with titles, always add the name, as in 'Dr. Smith,' never merely 'Doctor.' Use the Christian name only for those who are relations or intimate friends. A lady never interrupts the speech of others, nor does she discuss private matters in public.
A lady avoids all exhibitions of temper before others. Whether grief or joy, emotions should be subdued in public and only allowed full play in private apartments.
Dinner Parties and Receptions
In a private dance, a lady cannot refuse to dance with any gentleman who invites her unless she has a previous engagement. However, at public balls, a lady should dance only with gentlemen of her own party, or those with whom she has a previous acquaintance. Young ladies must be careful how they refuse to dance. She should give a good reason, lest the gentleman takes it as a personal dislike. Once a lady refuses, a gentleman should not urge her to dance, nor should the lady accept another invitation for the same dance. An unattached lady never dances more than three dances with the same partner.
A lady is never seen in a ball-room without gloves. They must be white or of a very delicate hue.
In the Street
A true gentlewoman can be distinguished at first glance. There is a quiet self-possession about her that marks her out from the florid lower classes. Self-effacement is the rule of good manners. A gentlewoman goes quietly along, intent on her own business. She walks quietly through the streets, seeing and hearing nothing that she ought not to see and hear. She recognizes acquaintances with a courteous bow, and friends with words of greeting. She never talks loudly, or laughs boisterously or does anything to attract the attention of passers-by.
A lady, meeting a gentleman with whom she has an acquaintance, shall give the first bow of recognition. A young lady should never 'cut' a married lady. It is the privilege of age to recognize those who are younger in years.
A lady never forms an acquaintance upon the street, or seeks to attract the attention or admiration of persons of the opposite sex.
A lady never looks back after anyone in the street, or turns to stare in a public place. She should never walk alone in the street after dark.
She keeps from contact with her neighbor in public conveyances as much as is possible, never leaning up against another or spreading her arms. She may accept the offer of services from a stranger in alighting from, or entering a conveyance, and should acknowledge the courtesy.
So what is a true gentlewoman? She is "an emanation from the heart subtilized by culture."
Sources: "Manners for Women", by Mrs. Humphry, a facsimile reproduction of an 1897 publication. Reprinted by Pryor Publications, Kent, England,1993. | |
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*Don*
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Msg: 139 | |
| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/1/2009 12:42:37 PM | ^^^^
... a facsimile reproduction of an 1897 publication.
Yes, indeed ... and if you go farther back than that, a true gentlewoman shall accept graciously her bonk on the head and tug back to the cave by her hair.
D | |
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lisshe
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Joined: 1/10/2006
Msg: 140 | |
| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/1/2009 1:09:08 PM | | Manners are important. To me, it shows that you at least have common courtesy for other people. I love having doors opened for me, just as I enjoy doing it for other people. Someone who will not hold a door for an elderly person who is obviously having a difficult time, is not worth two cents. I am a firm believer in the "pay it forward" philosophy. Manners and common decency are somewhat lacking these days, especially on the internet. See what happens when you write to someone just to say you liked their picture and profile and wish them the best, and see how many thank you's you get, few and far between. If I meet someone for the first time and they don't have manners and treat others in a respectful way, well, there won't be second date. Treat everyone with respect until they don't deserve it and then move on. That is someone who is not worth having in your life. | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/1/2009 1:47:45 PM |
Yes, indeed ... and if you go farther back than that, a true gentlewoman shall accept graciously her bonk on the head and tug back to the cave by her hair.
Then she fixes the man a turkey sammich ? | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/1/2009 3:26:55 PM | "a true gentlewoman shall accept graciously her bonk on the head and tug back to the cave by her hair."
Don........want to fix a sandwich for me..................? | |
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*Don*
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Msg: 143 | |
| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/1/2009 5:57:17 PM | [laffin] ... I'm sorry, but I don't serve sammiches without a proper curtsey, Ms. Moraima. I do have my 'standards'.
Seriously though, I got quite a eye-opener about the late 1800's description of proper behaviour for a woman. We were such a foolish race of people back then. What was passed off as manners really only served to denigrate one gender.
D | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/1/2009 6:00:07 PM |
Seriously though, I got quite a eye-opener about the late 1800's description of proper behaviour for a woman. We were such a foolish race of people back then.
So that means that in over 200 years , nothing has really changed. | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/3/2009 10:52:45 AM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^...................................................
Just as a thinking brain puts us on the top of the food chain.. manners separates us all from the neanderthals.. and thankfully.. chivalry is not dead!
I go as often as possible to the local renaissance faires.. and am always delighted to see men that are true gentlemen. These men don't just "act" this way at the faires.. or play the part away from the faires.. but.. they carry it on.. as I have gotten to visit with many of them in their daily life. It's refreshing to see a man treat a woman as a lady.. and not a sex machine built to stroke his ego.. including the making of sammiches.
In todays world.. a slight bow from the waist or the head.. suffices.. as a means of curtsy. Women rarely wear long gowns or full enough dresses to give a full curtsy.. but.. that doesn't mean she isn't giving one. | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/3/2009 11:11:11 AM | I still remember my training and could curtsy even in a business suit.
I have noticed that the happier the person the easier the manners nature flow in their day to day lives. | |
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| Manners among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/3/2009 5:48:49 PM | | I agree with those who say you shouldn't have to advertise about having manners. It should be a given. There are people who don't have them, but you can discern that by talking to them, on line or phone, just by getting to know them before the meet. Or, in the first meet, you can see if someone is a person who has decent manners. I weed them out very quickly. No interest in rude and crude people. However, I don't think opening doors and pulling out chairs is what manners are all about. Manners are about treating other people with respect and decency, it's about being treated the way you want to be treated, and, for me, it is about not being really crude, for men or women. I find there are men who are middle aged who think it is normal to be crude. It isn't. It's disgusting. | |
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| Mannors among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/5/2009 5:25:51 AM | Good manners are more than saying please and thank you.\. This implies respect for humanity. This also shouldn't be a gender issue. Its listening with a careful ear, treating others with basic respect. Its holding doors open for others instead of letting the doors slam in their face....regardless if its a different gender. Its taking your turn at the four-way, letting another car in front of you. Chewing with your mouth closed, not pointing out others character........not insisting that someone agrees with you and having to win every argument.......agreeing to disagree. I love good manners. Its treating and unknown person on the phone with respect. Even a bill collector. I see people seething with anger that are passive aggressive taking out frustrations on a store clerk.....not getting off their cell phones and giving the sales clerk that 5 seconds to complete a transaction. Its saying please and thank you to a sales clerk and not making them feel as less than.....before you. Basic manners indicate that society as a whole finds certain behaviors acceptable. But in this day and age I have seen others treated as less because people feel certain larger than life. I think for the ones that don't treat humans with basic respect as angry, fearful people that have I am a better than you attitude. Slamming doors on someone shows a anger issue. Its passive aggressive....it is a statement about your life. It doesn't take much time or energy to show a little respect to people I don't know. Whether looking in some one's eyes to say thank you and smile. It takes a second. Doesn't cost me anything. And it makes my day brighter because whenever I am smiling they can't help but smile back.
Great Post thanks..... | |
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| Mannors among the over 45 yr. old
Posted: 3/7/2009 4:55:50 AM | I completely agree with you. I am a woman and 56 and don't think twice about opening or holding a door for a man, woman or child...Probably has to do with upbringing. It is sometimes a surprise how unconsciously rude people can be but doesn't change the way I roll. | |
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