| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/24/2009 12:01:26 AM |
Falling in love indicates that you have no control. You're "falling"- it's about emotions. Feelings. Expecting romantic love to last forever is not realistic.
It's different from entering into a relationship to form a partnership based on common goals and needs (raising children, financial stability, companionship).
The USA divorce rate is nearly 60% . Obviously there's a problem.
I totally agree!  | |
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| Anyone who has been married....
Posted: 2/24/2009 5:12:46 AM | ...and was paying attention (and is an emotional mature and balanced adult, but that is a whole other issue), could tell you that LOVE is hardly the key ingredient to a marriage.
Meaning...that while in fact you could be married...and have a successful (if not necessarily joyous) one without love...love itself will not mean crap if there are other issues and the two persons are actually not compatible.
Again though, understanding this requires a certain level of maturity and pragmaticism. If you are still under the impression that marriage is just a romantic blissful existence, and that this person is going to be your "soul mate" and "complete" you, naturally you'd think this sentiment triumphs everything else.
The most critical emotions in a marriage are admiration and respect. Both of which require time to develop. Infatuation is meaningless, and while love is very important, REAL love derives from admiration and respect...not from infatuation.
Translation: Yes, you CAN learn to love someone, if in fact they are someone you can love...so it isn't necessarily a bad idea to make sure the other elements around compatibility are in place before you worry about that "feeling" in your stomach that will go away...at least some of the time...over time. | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/24/2009 11:08:49 AM | | Landra: You are absolutely right! Why would one make a lifetime decision on something that happened without their control (falling in love)? Well, for now, I think its best to marry someone that I have a lot of things in common (as Landra stated) than in love with. Because I think I'll last longer with someone like that than someone I have fallen in love with. I know from experience that romantic love never last. | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/24/2009 11:36:14 AM | Love is different than relationships; I love people I would not be in a relationship with. The key is relating - or so it seems to me.
I do not think people ought to spend their lives with people they do not love anymore than I think people ought to try to be with someone who isn't deeply compatible with them. Beyond that, I think expressing love is a choice you make every morning over coffee.
BigDaddy - the last time I checked statistics, women were (sadly) catching up with men in infidelity... but had not yet surpassed them. But I'm not sure it matters all that much which gender does it more. After all, there are some cultures that accept infidelity and feel it shouldn't interfere with the marriage. Speaks to compatibility again as far as I can see.
Sure, in the past people stayed together - but would we really call what many of them had a successful relationship? If staying together is the goal, yes... if being independently and collectively fulfilled was the measurement, I suspect not. | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/24/2009 12:15:16 PM | Wow O.P. maybe there is hope for our generation yet! GREAT QUESTION!
I live with my family and although I have had to deal with the negative aspects of that choice, I have found that it does give me some incites to an older generation that maybe most of us don’t have. To answer the question in any meaningful way, I think we as a generation first have to put the question into context of the generation it is being asked of. Social norm’s of behavior have greatly changed in the U.S and over much of the world within the last three to four decades. Just look at Russia and the U.S and how someone born in say 1950 and then someone born in 1970 even in the same country are different in how they perceive the world around them. In the U.S there is definitely a perception that the latest influencing generation wants it all and now by those in previous generations’! So we must put things into the context from which they are viewed.
In doing so, I think there is merit in your mother’s argument. Going into any relationship with the idea of having to make the best of it, is a strong team building skill and often gives the desired results as your mother pointed out. I also think that our generation set itself up for failure when we go in saying that it all has to be perfect before committal or else don’t commit at all, referencing our parents failed marriages that had faults and failed.
Note that your mother’s argument and my above example have something at odds with one another. Your mother’s argument has an accommodating influence when she added at the end “obviously they had to tolerate each others faults first.” That was an accommodating statement, in stark contrast our generation replies that if it is not perfect, it ain’t, period! This statement is very confrontational and concrete and definitely not amicable to good team building when differences are encountered. I think their is a key to answer your question for our generation. | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/24/2009 12:28:21 PM | Funny, a friend and I just had this conversation. Her Grandmother married a wealthy man, and not for love. Grandma said you can marry for security and dependability just as easily as marry for love.
I did that. I married the "good guy" because he was stable, dependable, yadda yadda...needless to say it didn't work out. Eventually it wasn't enough, for either of us.
Nor was it fair to him.
I think part of the process should be falliing in love with yourself first. Alot of us look for our mate to "make us happy" and that will never happen, at least not for the long haul. You first have to have a healthy love and respect of yourself before you can offer or accept that with anyone else. | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/24/2009 12:39:24 PM | We cling to this idealized fairy tale of *happily ever after*
The reason we idealize it is because we long for this *perfect* connection and chemistry. This is why so many try the whole *friends first* approach. The thing is that often ends-up being very one-sided, where one is or has fallen in love (and I love the analogy about *falling* that someone posted above, I've heard that before as well) and the other doesn't feel the same.
I think these kinds of notions about "emotional chemistry" and "levels of connection" (mental, emotional, physical and spiritual) while very altruistic are also very hyped-up and convoluted and not very reasonable or realistic for fully functional long term relationships (such as marriages are supposed to be).
I think of my own mother and father as-well. There certainly wasn't this whole fairy-tale romantic honeymoon going on. Yet, they were still deeply attracted to one another and they lasted. That's a real example to me, not the stuff I read about or see on TV or in movies. There's this point where I suppose you just say, *You're not exactly everything I want, but you'll do* - It's not settling either, it's just knowing what we need and what's best for us versus what we want. I think that says a lot about a persons level of maturity as-well. It's not about what we want anymore, it's about what we need and what's best for us in the *bigger picture* of things. I believe it also helps when we have experienced *what we want* and found it wasn't *all it was cracked-up to be*. Moving right into what we believe we need and is best for us might not be good either because we may still long for what we want (or think we want). It's good to get it out of the system also.
Mike | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/24/2009 12:43:49 PM | I can only say that I have married 2x for love and once for security and dependability. I can say that security and dependability lasted much longer then for love. We are actually still very good friends and have a very tight bond, just not married. (long story)
Arp | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/24/2009 1:15:49 PM | OP... back when our parents were young, anyone who got divorced what often ostracized from the community. As well, there was much more discrimination going on in terms of race and gender. As well... society 50 years ago was much poorer overall than it is today.
So there was a much bigger incentive to stay together back then for social and economic reasons than there are today.
Another fact is people didn't live as long back then either.
And I've met a couple of people who had arranged marriages... let's just say that arranged marriages are NOT 100% successful... given that these were women I conversed with here on POF!
But in my view, the ideal is NEITHER... Marriage is a lousy contract designed to enrich the legal system, government, churches and purveyors of marriage-related goods/services.
And the marriage contract just further complicates things if they don't work out.
Our society is wealthy and liberal enough that people don't need to stay in a lousy relationship just to survive.
From my perspective, to "love someone I marry"... which is to say, *try* to love someone I don't love or lust for and who may NEVER love or lust after me... would put me at a huge financial, social, legal and emotional risk.
I would have to be Brain Damaged to agree to that... especially factoring in the current state of child and spousal support laws and laws that govern the division of assets.
For me the ONLY way to get married is to someone I'm soooo in love with that I believe I will want to be with them until either one of us dies.
And I've done that and now I'm separated after 2 kids and almost 15 years with the same person. | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/24/2009 1:55:33 PM | Doesn't it work better if both things are employed? If we marry someone we love and are smart enough to nurture and protect it, don't you get the same end result with a much better chance of the marriage sticking together than banking on the possibility that you might fall in love? You might love the person, sure, but are you going to be in love with them? I cannot imagine a union lasting very long if there was little to no passion.
I recently saw a movie and intend to read the book, Fireproof. The concept is based on saving an almost dead marriage by one of the parties committing to loving unconditionally and doing certain things for his/her partner for 40 days. The love diary gives the person a different thing to do every day. The person doing it doesn't tell the other person the reasons behind the change in behavior, they just follow the program. It is also tied to religion so I found myself wondering if this would work in a secular application. The success was related to the person really committing and believing in what he/she was doing instead of just going through the motions. When he really meant it, the spouse picked up on it and eventually her heart thawed.
Basically the premise is to decide you are going to love them when you feel like the love has died and what you thought was lost would naturally be rekindled. | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/24/2009 3:27:02 PM |
I can only say that I have married 2x for love and once for security and dependability. I can say that security and dependability lasted much longer then for love. We are actually still very good friends and have a very tight bond, just not married. (long story)
I'd say that you've matured your definition of what *love* means for you really. I've also seen very lasting examples where the security and dependability were there many years and that formerly nice and lovable secure and dependable person ended-up becoming mean, nasty, abusive, and miserable. That person felt as-if they were carrying the entire weight of the relationship in an attempt to always prove their love. To prove they could always hold things together. So those people also ended-up divorced as-well. Some kind of mutual love has to be in there somewhere, but it never really was on both sides.
My parents were very 50 / 50. Both worked, both fairly educated. Both were responsible. Both were the provider and caretaker. They were already established in their career goals before they got married back after WW2. Typically, a couple from that "era" was the "classic" Male provider Female caretaker & housewife type. Definitely not my parents. I'd say they were far more equal in both roles, and way ahead of their time. In at least that sense, probably representative of what I also look for in a relationship. They lasted, they did marry for love, and they still loved each other all those years through their ups and downs. It wasn't just all sunshine and rainbows either, they had to work hard at it. I think that's why it worked, they were both willing to put in the effort to work at it.
Yes, they did believe that divorce was a *bad word*, and I believe that was a good motivation. They had few differences they wouldn't try to work out and believe me, they had them. Even when my dad was drinking and my mom had to be the "man" of the house, they stuck together. He got sober and cleaned-up his act and they stayed together. They just stuck it out through all the ups and downs.
Of course, I feel almost like a hypocrite myself, since I too am divorced. It was very hard for me to deal with. My sister is also divorced and it was hard for her as-well. I know that I married the wrong person, and I was far from ready for it. I was very young and foolish. She never grew-up and was just totally un-willing to bare any of the responsibility in the relationship. I guess she believed sex was enough. So I too married for what I then believed was love, and learned that, that kind of love doesn't pay the bills or get things done that need to be done. I had to re-define what *love* means to me. Love also means being respectful of each others needs and responsible for one another. Love means work, not just feelings and thoughts. Love is an action.
My one and only former marriage was just a huge mistake, not a real marriage by any means. That ended nearly 10 years ago. Despite all that, I do still cling to the ideal of the way my parents were in their marriage and I always will. Despite my mistake, I just don't buy into the notion of "disposable wedding vows". If that's the case, why even get married? I'm not in any rush to do it again in this day and age, not for someone who thinks that way anyway.
Nowadays, I believe people forget that part of their wedding vow is for richer and POORER, in SICKNESS and in health, for better and WORSE.
People forget that love isn't all sunshine and rainbows. It's hard work too.
Everyone seems to want the sunshine, and nobody wants the rain.
Mike | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/24/2009 3:36:51 PM | Personally, I think I could do either one. I'm a softie, so I think I could love anyone. I can see good things in everyone out there (well, I don't know EVERYONE, and tend to stay away from axe murderers and such , soooo....).
I'm always struck dumb (no comments) when someone that I consider to be a quality man is moaning that he can't "find" a good woman. I'm standing right here! | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/24/2009 3:47:19 PM | Hell Yeah BDJinx!
I agree with you on that 100% on that one. Too much taking for granted, and allowances and vows not being taken serious and ESPECIALLY the words I LOVE YOU. People keep saying that things way to casually. Vows and the I Love You words need to be taken seriously and not just saying it. It ain't no joke. At the same time both people have to be happy with each other or else it's going to fail. No point in marrying someone if they can't make you happy enough to be with them. Real Talk | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/25/2009 12:05:30 PM | Mike,
I don't agree with your posts sometimes...  but what you said above...
<div class="quote">I had to re-define what *love* means to me. Love also means being respectful of each others needs and responsible for one another. Love means work, not just feelings and thoughts. Love is an action.
.... it drives it home for me.
Love IS hard work! It requires all of your attention and focus not just a little bit thrown in here and there. It's knowing you got their back and they have yours if you need them. There is a lot of truth to actions speak louder then words.
Arp
P.S.
Mike, I tried to post to you in email but it says your not looking for what I am working for. lmao.. which was to pay you a compliment. Guess you will just have to wonder what it was I was going to say.  Gotta love those computer generated get lost messages.. they are always like a slap in the face when they pop up. :rollseyes: | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/25/2009 1:00:12 PM |
Really, I think your mother has a faulty memory or she lived in a strange area where people were marrying for the sake of being married..
Apparently you aren't aware that arranged marriages are pretty common in other countries on the planet. | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/25/2009 2:38:46 PM | I think it is because divorces are accepted in today's society.
And I wonder how many people that have suffered to live with someone they don't want to just because of the shame of getting divorced...
also another reason is that people have lost the respect for marriage and don't see it as a lifelong committment as you can always-get divorced.
So it is on good and bad.
If you do not marry because you love the person then why get married at all????? | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/25/2009 2:45:05 PM | "If you do not marry becuase you love the person then why get married at all?????"
Simple most of those women see it as a life long meal ticket or they know after 2 years there is community property, simple. Think about it. Bob | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/25/2009 4:32:22 PM | | People marry for different reasons. The notion of marrying for love is a concept from very recent history. Prior to that a woman would marry a man who was a good provider and who could sire children. A man married a woman for her beauty, companionship and her ability to keep a home and bear him children. It is certainly possible to grow to love someone. Love means different things to different people. For some it is financial security for others it is the promise of a consistent sex life. Others long for companionship and for an antidote to loneliness. There is no guarantee that love will produce a marriage long-lasting happiness. Love may grow and love may die. A task oriented relationship such as your Mother speaks of may not be the most romantic but in some ways it has the potential to be more enduring. How many relationships start despite the fact that the two people involved did not initially feel they were each-other's "type"? No matter how much love there is in a relationship, tolerance, forgiveness and patience can never be too plentiful. | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/27/2009 8:21:39 AM |
Love her BEFORE I marry her
..and what happens if the love wanes? We all know ..divorce!
I think this kind of 'marriage' was easier to pull off when 'community' was smaller. People usually married people their family knew etc...values and life goals were similar just because these people socialized in relatively the same circles.
I think those days were better because so far it seems that more options hasnt generated better offers or made us make better choices..
They succeed because they, as you put it, chose to love the one they married.
So, why not marry the one you love AND choose to love the one you marry? It seems like that would make success rates soar!
Excellent point except that
Falling in love indicates that you have no control. You're "falling"- it's about emotions. Feelings. .... it is more likely to fall in love with someone you cannot tolerate on a longer term basis. "Falling in love" has always been known to be a short-term phenomenon.
I think reading from the responses here, I now believe it is better to marry with your "head" than your heart. The heart is a funny organ to start with.. :) | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/27/2009 9:17:33 AM | ^^^^^
CassaGo, dang I guess when I married because he was a good provider I forgot to check his bank account. Next time I do that I will take you with me so I do it right! I agree with your last comment though but with a twist. It is because of the feminist movement that we have the right to chose if we want to marry for things other then love too.
Arp | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 2/28/2009 10:36:15 PM | I think I will LOVE the ONE I marry!...
Sounds like a lot easier to manage to manage than "falling in love" and marrying.
I feel you make better decisions when you are NOT yet in love with the person. So the decision to marry them means you can and have decided to make the effort to LOVE them thereafter! | |
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| Would you Marry the ONE you Love or Love the ONE you Marry?
Posted: 3/1/2009 12:06:58 AM | | I chose to marry the one I love and was married for 21 yrs. Was divorced after she left me and my daughter and went to another state. When women stop respecting men,Men stop loving women. Focus on bringing happiness to each other and things will change. Knowing that happiness will bring her love and that her love is worth fighting for will keep you together.Not just any kind of love will do. The only kind of love that can fill us up and make us whole emotionally is real love. I think real love is always caring about the happiness of another person without any thought for what we might get for ourselves. It’s also real love when other people care about our happiness unconditionally. With real love, people are not disappointed or angry when we make our foolish mistakes, when we don’t do what they want, or even when we inconvenience them personally. When I use the word happiness, I do not mean the brief and superficial pleasure that comes from money, sex, power, and the conditional approval we earn from others when we behave as they want. Real happiness is not the feeling we get from being entertained or making people do what we want. It’s a profound and lasting sense of peace and fulfillment that deeply satisfies and enlarges our soul. It doesn’t go away when circumstances are difficult. It survives and even grows during hardship and struggle. True happiness is our entire reason to live, and it can only be obtained as we find real love and share it with others. With real love, nothing else matters; without it, nothing else is enough. Only real love can make us genuinely happy. When someone is genuinely concerned about our happiness, we feel connected to that person. We feel included in his or her life, and in that instant we are no longer alone. Each moment of unconditional acceptance creates a living thread to the person who accepts us, and these threads weave a powerful bond that fills us with a genuine and lasting happiness. Nothing but real love can do that. | |
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