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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!      Home login  
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 jimtash71
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 51
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!Page 3 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
We need to do a better job of teaching our children in school about proper money management.


That's your problem. You want schools to be a substitute for what parents should be doing instead. Depending more on government and social institutions to do what's right is not the answer. Why would any parent depend on a stranger to instill proper values in their child is not only stupid, it's immoral. Past history and the present are proof. Kids popping out kids is a great example of this. Parents need to take responsibility for their children's future and well being and that doesn't mean just putting them on a bus to school. Having them goes way beyond just feeding and putting roofs over their heads.

Stop being lazy about kids or don't have them in the first place. Lazy parents breed stupid kids and that affects everyone.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 52
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 4:33:12 AM

That's your problem. You want schools to be a substitute for what parents should be doing instead. Depending more on government and social institutions to do what's right is not the answer. Why would any parent depend on a stranger to instill proper values in their child is not only stupid, it's immoral. Past history and the present are proof. Kids popping out kids is a great example of this. Parents need to take responsibility for their children's future and well being and that doesn't mean just putting them on a bus to school. Having them goes way beyond just feeding and putting roofs over their heads.


Jim,

I see that you are part of your family business. Were you schooled privately too? Not everyone has the opportunities that you have had and so they may not have the necessary tools to teach their children money management and/or they may be among the many employed who do not make enough income to cover all normal bills (I am speaking of the usual such as rent/mortgage, utilities, food ). There may also be plenty of adults who came from such situations yet managed to obtain better jobs yet they still did not have the opportunity to learn money management skills. I would venture to say that many college educated have not necessarily been taught money management skills either. Should this be a reason to deny money management skills to the current youth of today? I think not. I like you grew up in a family business and was taught money management by my parents yet I would never assume that all children had those opportunities or that their parents were lazy simply because they had not been taught such skills. When parents are not able to give these children necessary life tools that will help their children to make it in this world better than they did schools should be doing more to help prepare these children to be better adults. We, as parents expect schools to be providing our children with the necessary tools to survive that will enhance the tools that we give our children daily such as respect for others, morals, etc.
 jimtash71
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 53
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 4:52:55 AM
I see that you are part of your family business. Were you schooled privately too? Not everyone has the opportunities that you have had and so they may not have the necessary tools to teach their children money management and/or they may be among the many employed who do not make enough income to cover all normal bills (I am speaking of the usual such as rent/mortgage, utilities, food ).


If you can't think in terms of the big picture and responsibilities in procreation and the cost and labor involved, you shouldn't have kids. You are not entitled to produce offspring just to dump them on the system to raise.

BTW, I did go to public school. I've got 18 years of work under my belt. And one year I worked 350 days and I don't have mouths to feed. I stand on my feet 8 hours a day. Think I'm privileged? Whatever.


There may also be plenty of adults who came from such situations yet managed to obtain better jobs yet they still did not have the opportunity to learn money management skills. I would venture to say that many college educated have not necessarily been taught money management skills either. Should this be a reason to deny money management skills to the current youth of today? I think not.


Why do you expect someone else to do it? You already are denying your kids a head start by not doing it yourself.


I like you grew up in a family business and was taught money management by my parents yet I would never assume that all children had those opportunities or that their parents were lazy simply because they had not been taught such skills.


It's not their fault right? I guess they forgot what it means to be parents. Being a parent is teaching your kids skills. Skills to live by and become fruitful. Comprende?


When parents are not able to give these children necessary life tools that will help their children to make it in this world better than they did schools should be doing more to help prepare these children to be better adults.


Passing off parental responsibilities to the state is immoral. If parents cannot assume the role of what a parent should be, then they should not be parents in the first place. You should be ashamed for writing that and all it does is reaffirm everything I wrote.


We, as parents expect schools to be providing our children with the necessary tools to survive that will enhance the tools that we give our children daily such as respect for others, morals, etc.


Tools like what? Just the out of control teen birth rate in this nation is obscene enough to tell me that a lot of parents are failures in providing their kids anything. But that's why they expect the nanny state to make up for it and that's the root cause of a lot of this mess.


 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 54
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 5:06:50 AM
Jim,

I feel that you have missed out on some important tools in life.

I'm so glad my parents gave me the tools to understand all people's needs and not just those that pleased me.
 jimtash71
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 55
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 5:11:55 AM
I feel that you have missed out on some important tools in life.


You should think instead of feel and that's your problem. You can't feel your way through life. Nor should you expect the state to think for you.

One important tools in life is one's ability to not become a burden on someone else and in that aspect I am very successful. My future is my hands and I am in control of it. I am responsible for my fate. It's a shame that you think that is something to look down on though because if I had kids, I would teach them the same thing.

I'm so glad my parents gave me the tools to understand all people's needs and not just those that pleased me.


So in your mind that means that we shouldn't hold people up to be responsible citizens? To produce offspring only when they are capable of raising them properly? Sure toss that to the state as well. What about your children's needs? Do you even know what they are? Do you even think about that or is this something you have to feel as well? My gawd, a society full of people shirking their duties to their children and passing it on to others and thinking it's alright. And the downward spiral continues.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 56
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 5:35:02 AM

You should think instead of feel and that's your problem. You can't feel your way through life.


If you do not have feeling for what the problems are then how can you effectively change them? It takes more than brains to make things work out Jim.


So in your mind that means that we shouldn't hold people up to be responsible citizens?


I have never said that people should not be responsible for their actions. There is no way to go back in time and reverse all the people who have been born irresponsibly; there is only today and forward. If you want to see irresponsibility run amok then look no farther than our own government leaders these past 8 years. (Now how did these people get that far? Perhaps people voted them in)


To produce offspring only when they are capable of raising them properly? Sure toss that to the state as well.


There will always be offspring produced by people who have not yet learned what is necessary to raise them and some of those people come from well off homes so lets not just try to blame that all on the poor and the teenage population. The facts are that they are here now and we need to be able to teach them better tools so that society does not continue to disintegrate. The future is based on these children becoming well informed, all knowing and thinking adults who are capable of surviving without the need to live well beyond their means.


My gawd, a society full of people shirking their duties to their children. And the downward spiral continues.


It will continue to spiral down if our educational system does not start teaching people what they actually need to know and that has very little to do with parents shirking their duties to their children and more to do with how irresponsible society in general has become. You seem to have no problems with the leadership today that have wasted trillions of dollars on unnecessary and immoral wars. You seem to have no problem with the CEO's who have bilked billions in unearned bonuses and raises when their companies have indeed failed. I'm sorry but you do not give failing companies pats on the back and bailouts (corporate welfare). You give them the boot!!!!
 jimtash71
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 57
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 5:50:27 AM
If you do not have feeling for what the problems are then how can you effectively change them? It takes more than brains to make things work out Jim.


The problems stem from a society that thinks that schools are there to teach kids morals and values and to get them ready for life's ups and downs. No, school is there to give kids knowledge to function. Parents need to teach their kids about responsibility and give them skills to thrive. Placing them in from of a TV isn't going to do that.

Feelings for one another have nothing to do with society's problems. The lack of morals, values, single teen parents and parents that do nothing to ensure their kids have a head start do more damage to us as a whole. They need to in fact be made examples of to prevent it from continuing to happen.

If you want to see irresponsibility run amok then look no farther than our own government leaders these past 8 years.


That's even more of reason to not hand government more control over your children's fate.

The facts are that they are here now and we need to be able to teach them better tools so that society does not continue to disintegrate.


And the schools have been how successful at this? They get all kinds of money yet they aren't the greatest at being substitute parents.

You seem to have no problems with the leadership today that have wasted trillions of dollars on unnecessary and immoral warsI guess flying jets into the twin towers was moral? You seem to have no problem with the CEO's who have bilked billions in unearned bonuses and raises when their companies have indeed failed. I'm sorry but you do not give failing companies pats on the back and bailouts (corporate welfare). You give them the boot!!!!


What does this have to do with parents raising their kids properly? So you're comparing CEO's, war and bailouts to parents passing on their responsibilities to the state? The fallacy in your argument lies in the fact that parents play direct role in how their kids end up. The fact that many expect the state to do it is a sad statement on how society has evolved. Gawd help us is all I can say.

 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 58
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 6:09:06 AM
The problems stem from a society that thinks that schools are there to teach kids morals and values and to get them ready for life's ups and downs. No, school is there to give kids knowledge to function. Parents need to teach their kids about responsibility to thrive.


The problems stem from the fact that public schools are mandatory unless you have the assets to place your children in private schools or the time and assets to teach them at home. Most of children's waking hours are spent in public schools and/or doing the mountains of homework that they are given each day when they get home. Many of these children have parents who both work and often are not able to be home for them during those last waking hours. If schools are mandatory then they should be teaching children life skills that are necessary to survive. Who said anything about schools teaching these children morals? If anything, that is the last place a person would want their children to learn morality from. When I speak of life skills, I'm speaking of the importance of money and career; how to manage ones assets and how to provide the necessary needs for an ever growing family. I'm speaking of money Jim. Most people have very little idea about how to grow their own money and how little they will be able to do without a higher education and a career that is not going to go overseas. These are the things that these children need to know. If their own parents are working two jobs each to survive then how are these children to learn that getting into the right field will produce far more salary and far less work time spent to get that. They cannot learn how to save when their parents have too little money left to save or when everything is hinged around credit cards and loans.


That's even more of reason to not hand government more control over your children's fate.


If teachers were actually allowed to teach what is necessary then children would not be doomed to a poor education.


I guess flying jets into the twin towers was moral?


And you believe everything media spouts off about I guess? Forget the twin towers for a moment Jim and realize that millions of people have been killed. Don't you think we have gotten enough revenge by now?


What does this have to do with parents raising their kids properly?


Someone raised those men and women, didn't they.



I've got to go counsel my daughter at the moment. Have a good day Jim.
 jimtash71
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 59
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 6:17:14 AM
If schools are mandatory then they should be teaching children life skills that are necessary to survive.


Schools are mandatory because society will not progress without knowledge. They are not a substitute for the parent's responsibility to teach kids about life.

And you believe everything media spouts off about I guess? Forget the twin towers for a moment Jim and realize that millions of people have been killed. Don't you think we have gotten enough revenge by now?


Why should I forget about the twin towers? Who in their right mind would say something like that?

Again, what does this have to do with parental responsibility and why are you comparing this to the role parents play?

Someone raised those men and women, didn't they.


Are you trying to suggest the state can do better? I don't know everyone's upbringing nor can I control it. But if I was a parent I definitely could control my child's and you know what, I would. I acknowledge that is a fundamental responsibility of mine to ensure their success and not anyone else's. That's the difference between you an I.
 J_in_SD*
Joined: 1/1/2009
Msg: 60
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 8:55:03 AM

Past history and the present are proof.

"Past history" is redundant. Not to mention redundant.
 Gangster Kitten
Joined: 4/3/2008
Msg: 61
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 9:02:52 AM
Teachers need to be putting an emphasis on "Logic and Critical Thinking"

When I was in highschool, there wasn't a philosophy class available.

In college, I took a philosophy 101 class and many people complained that the class was pointless. Logic and Critical Thinking are two subjects that very important in philosophy, and really apply to just about anything.

I think a lot of people don't live their lives with much Logic/Critical Thinking applied to it. I think a lot of people overspend without weighing the consequences and possible outcomes of every decision.
 JuJuBee
Joined: 1/24/2004
Msg: 62
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 9:06:18 AM
How about the people who just blow their money be the ones that suffer instead of us who saved and used our heads?


Can we start with the big three auto makers, go to the huge banking corporatons? I fail to see how bailing out the above will help? The big three are already asking for more? Why not give them a shot of tough love & cutting them off financially?
 jimtash71
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 63
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 9:16:41 AM
Can we start with the big three auto makers, go to the huge banking corporatons? I fail to see how bailing out the above will help? The big three are already asking for more? Why not give them a shot of tough love & cutting them off financially?


Oh I agree and that's the way it should be. But what we'll end up with though is the more the government gets a hold of these companies, the more influence they can exert on them to do what they want. Government is now the drug dealer and the companies taking the money are the addicts. And as we all know, addicts usually do what it takes to satisfy their addiction.
 frankster_p
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 64
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 9:23:50 AM
Can we start with the big three auto makers, go to the huge banking corporatons? I fail to see how bailing out the above will help? The big three are already asking for more? Why not give them a shot of tough love & cutting them off financially?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry I dont want to drive a Toyota or a Chinese car...ever.
They are part of American culture.
Its Ford or Gm or a Euro car for me.
 GreenArrow13
Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 65
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 10:56:14 AM
A depression will not do us good. How is that going to help a struggling family? The reason for this depression is not the average family. The reason we have this depression is because the government sold it's soul to corporations like GE, Haliburton, and Enron. The government is more concerned about the protecting the crooks on Wall street rather than helping folks on Main St. Rembember, the founding fathers were agaisnt large corporations.
 katsback
Joined: 6/18/2006
Msg: 66
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 10:58:31 AM
I think if the kids want college so bad, let them join the military and get it there!
Quit expecting parents to be paying for their college, their bmw, and their apartment!
Spoiled wrotten kids~
 GreenArrow13
Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 67
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 11:08:56 AM
As a society we have lost touch of our past. At one time, people died for the right to form a labor union. Children worked in factories. There was no equality for women or minorities. People today simply are not aware of what life was like 50 to 100 years ago. They have taken it for granted. Not to mention most people have become detached from their very own government. People need to turn off Amercan Idol and start paying attention to what thier government is doing.

"If the everyone demanded world peace, instead of another televison set, then there would be world peace." John Lennon.
 JuJuBee
Joined: 1/24/2004
Msg: 68
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 12:31:58 PM

Sorry I dont want to drive a Toyota or a Chinese car...ever.
They are part of American culture.
Its Ford or Gm or a Euro car for me.[/quote}

The only problem with that being that many of the American made cars have foreign parts, just as many American made products as made out of our country now. Does that change the fact that they are pushing for more money although they've already gone through how many millions?
 JSlade58
Joined: 9/11/2008
Msg: 69
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 3:22:17 PM

Then, we blame common people for not understanding and being irresponsible with their credit cards.

Indeed, the credit card issuers can change rates,fees and, terms at their discretion. If the common people weren't so dang lazy and/or stupid they would read that very statement on the agreement they signed when they got the card, or the loan. Greed always wins !!
 pazoozoo
Joined: 8/28/2006
Msg: 70
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 3:40:41 PM

Greed always wins !!


Actually, it's more like unforeseen emergencies such as Katrina and Ike, or homes burning right along with thousands of acres, or snow storms that kick power out for weeks and weeks, or floods that wash out crops and ruin fishing and shrimping. Or unexpectedly losing a job.

When you are hungry, cold, hot, without transportation, clothing, or shelter, you don't give a darned about those credit card rates. You think you will deal with them when the insurance pays off or you find a job. And then the insurance companies either delay payment for months and months, or won't pay at all. And the only jobs available pay just enough to keep some food on the table and hopefully, keep the electricity on.

Yep, greed always wins.
 JSlade58
Joined: 9/11/2008
Msg: 71
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 4:07:18 PM
I would venture to guess that most of those people that got flooded or burned out (and actually HAD credit cards)were probably 5 figures in credit card debt before the unforeseen emergency occurred. How would being without power make a person rack up large amounts on a credit card ? Losing a job is a different circumstance altogether.
 AdvanceMan
Joined: 2/17/2009
Msg: 72
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 5:12:07 PM
I don't think there is too much more that can be said. We were lazy, we let this happen, and now we're paying for it. We have collectively failed to take responsibility for the state of our nation.
 pazoozoo
Joined: 8/28/2006
Msg: 73
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 5:32:29 PM
Nope, we aren't lazy. Most of us have done what we were told was the right thing to do. We worked, we saved, we lived within our means, we reared our children, we bought homes, we paid our bills on time, paid our taxes, and we planned for the day we could retire to a little place and grow veggies.

The people we elected to do a job didn't do it. We aren't politicians, economists, or financial experts. We did the best we could. We are still doing the best we can.
 DocElffington
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 74
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History
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 6:43:22 PM
I'm waiting for Obama to put his money where his mouth is.

Everything else is just talk.
 GoneSailinBabe
Joined: 7/6/2008
Msg: 75
Americans Are Spoiled: A Depression will do us good!
Posted: 2/26/2009 7:44:46 PM
Surprisingly I agree.
Not with the statement about Obama, I was a delegate and knew he was our guy some time before he was known publicly, he also has family living a block from me....so we knew him when...

But I agree Americans are spoiled, greedy, and incapable of living within their means and unwilling to NOT have something if they can't afford it.

Those people have definitely earned what they get.

I have no debt, no mortgage and live well within my means. My trust funds are securely invested and not in stocks - haven't been for the last four years as it was very clear what was happening to our country YEARS ago!

Those who weren't so wise?
Well, again they've earned what happens to them.
Only wish I wasn't responsible for bailing their asses out.

That sucks.

My opinion? Corporal punishment.
We should be able to publically chastise and whip anyone who has been delinquent on their responsibilities and wants bailed out.

Do the crime do the time.

I'm financially responsible - they should have been also.
No excuses or justifications are allowed.
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