| Cushy Prisons
Posted: 10/22/2009 1:03:11 PM | before it opened we attended an open day of our local high security prison......the education facilities were better than any secondary school in the area, the library, computors, resourses were 2nd to none. They had a gym better than any one we could have afforded to join, even though my ex was on a very good wage at the time. The art room had supplies any art college would have been proud of.
After studying for 3 yrs at uni, ending up with £14k's worth of debt and still not able to get a job after 12 months, maybe my daughter should have just got herself a stint inside ...she could have done her degree for free and not have to worry about rent, food, bills or crippling debt! | |
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Posted: 10/22/2009 1:31:52 PM |
They had a gym better than any one we could have afforded to join, even though my ex was on a very good wage at the time. How much was your BF earning, minimum wage? For £30 per month you can get a gym membership to any state of the art gym in Manchester City Centre.
maybe my daughter should have just got herself a stint inside ...she could have done her degree for free and not have to worry about rent, food, bills or crippling debt! A good idea in theory, however, your daughter would probably be have doing a prison sentence of 8 years + or even a life sentence to be able to undertake a degree. | |
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Posted: 10/22/2009 4:45:55 PM |
They had a gym better than any one we could have afforded to join, even though my ex was on a very good wage at the time.
How much was your BF earning, minimum wage? For £30 per month you can get a gym membership to any state of the art gym in Manchester City Centre.
At Fitness First it's only £16.99 a month and the one nearest where i live is brilliant! | |
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Posted: 10/22/2009 5:07:40 PM | I am currently on jury service and have just been faced with the decision to send someone to jail for a crime that, on the face of it, seemed clear cut.
After listening to the evidence and having considered if there was absolutely no doubt. We (the jury) unanimously decided to return a not guilty verdict.
After the verdict was announced the judge told us that since the man was charged there had been a change in the law and the crime he was accused of would mean he would have to serve at least a 5 year jail term. In no way would this have been fair and it would have ruined a mans life no matter how many gyms or luxury items he would have been allowed.
Sometimes things are not as simple or as clear cut as they seem. | |
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Posted: 10/22/2009 5:26:34 PM | | great to see so much himan understanding here,of course it could never happen to us could it? | |
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Posted: 10/22/2009 5:33:24 PM | | It could john so very easily...wrong place wrong time. There, but for the grace of God......and all that mularkey! | |
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Posted: 10/22/2009 5:34:34 PM | I'm probably going to get attacked here but I am all for giving prisoners training and work whilst inside.
If you think about it some people commit crime because that's all they know. Obviously I'm not talking about murders and rapists etc, I'm talking about burglars, drug dealers, thieves, those types of people.
I'm not sticking up for them just saying that if they've become accustomed to working in prison they'll be more inclined to get a job when they leave, instead of just doing the bird and going back to their old ways when they get out.
All those who say stuff like "lock em up in a cell for 23 hours a day for 10 years" don't understand the psychological implications. Do you honestly think someone that's had this kind of treatment is going to be a sane contributing member of society when released? | |
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Posted: 10/22/2009 7:07:08 PM | sorry but rehabilitatation and retraining is NOT enough.
serious criminals thier behaviour is ingrained. You might well be able to give them skills to choose a legitimate job but when crime pays, and it does, they will choose crime every time.
Why work really hard for your money when you can go on the rob, collect your dole and have more cash in your pocket and time to do what you want???
Sure rehab works with drug addicts if you get to the root cause of addiction (and hence the need to commit crime in the first place)
but for other criminals, get much beyond 20 years old and it becomes ingrained in thier belief system that is ok to steal etc. Sadly you will very unlikely be able to change thier core beleif system without extensive long term therapy that is not available to them. Plus there is the problem of getting the prisoner to willingly engage in therapy.
so if you cant always change thier thought process's then you can only effect thier behaviour.
the only way to change thier behaviour is to limit thier choices. Make the consequences of thier crime a severe punnishment AND give them skills for getting a real job,
That way they can make a choice. Chances are if the punnishment is severe enough then they will only reoffend once.
unless they are of course so mentally damaged they cant help themselves. In which case they should be detained indefinitely to protect the public.
The 3 strikes system in the USA would be useful here. | |
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Posted: 10/22/2009 7:20:10 PM | Having not read the whole thread, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this at all yet...
but....
Given the alarming increase in new laws in this country over the last couple of decades... there's an ever widening catchment area of people out there who may, one day, just find themselves in a position where they are grateful for such conditions in Her Majesty's Prisons.
....Just a thought... | |
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Posted: 10/22/2009 7:27:54 PM | to add again...
remand needs to be totally different than mainstream prison. You are after all innocent until proven guilty and restrictions during remand should be minimum necessary to ensure you still turn up at court (ie the point of remand - stop you running) so just restriction of freedom. | |
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Posted: 10/23/2009 6:05:46 AM | | Gone are the days where prison meant hard time. This is wrong. To go to prison, especially a high security one, you must have wronged some people. I think that all rights should be lost upon entering prison and can be earned slowly (and i mean slowly). Make prison hard time again and people will think twice before offending. | |
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Posted: 10/23/2009 9:49:12 AM | I wonder how many people who are seemingly experts on what prison is like have actually experienced it for themselves and how many people who actually have been to prison report back that it was an experience that they relished.
They can have as many wide screen TVs as they like but it won't strip away the endemic bullying and brutality that exists within the prison system. | |
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Posted: 10/23/2009 11:33:11 AM |
At Fitness First it's only £16.99 a month and the one nearest where i live is brilliant
yes they are cheap now but private clubs were not cheap back then. It was some years ago now. | |
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Posted: 10/23/2009 2:38:45 PM | | and i was surpriz why the crime is going up so fast. | |
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Posted: 10/23/2009 5:03:15 PM |
They can have as many wide screen TVs as they like but it won't strip away the endemic bullying and brutality that exists within the prison system.
I know quite a few people whove been in prison as well as mentored/helped others whove been in system.
In my experience its only the first time offenders and the non-hardened criminals who have a hard time in prison and think its an aweful expereince.
The hardened criminals/career criminals dont think its that hard at all. Yes theres an element of adjustment to a new environment but also for many hardened criminals the brutality and bullying in prison is no worse than in thier communities outside. | |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 1:48:28 AM |
The hardened criminals/career criminals dont think its that hard at all. Yes theres an element of adjustment to a new environment but also for many hardened criminals the brutality and bullying in prison is no worse than in thier communities outside.
Obviously not everyone is bullied in prison as there are those who are doing the bullying. And they may not think it is that 'hard' but I'd lay a tenner on them not being too thrilled about having their liberty stripped away from them. And that's the whole point of incarceration. Forcing them to break rocks for the next 25 years is torture, not justice. | |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 2:09:24 AM | | My understanding is that prison takes away a persons liberty. That doesnt have to involve taking away their human rights, part of which is, freedom from degrading treatment, freedom from forced labour and the right to an education. To work without payment would be forced labour wouldnt it? Community service is different as that is the punishment. Taking away someones liberty is their punishment so they are allowed to work for payment. Personally I think criminals reoffend for other reasons not because they have it "cushy" in prison. After all, when prisons were grim and tortuous places, criminals still re-offended didnt they. | |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 3:44:20 AM | I know someone who kept reoffending because he had nowhere else to go. I was always under the impression that when a prisoner was released he had to have a safe address to go to but they obviously dont check out these addresses because he gave mine! I didnt want him with me so he became homeless. He used to offend within days of coming out because I guess a roof over your head and a hot meal is better than being out on the streets in the middle of winter. It doesnt have to be cushy.
In the end he met a woman and is now happily married with children and has a job. You see we women do have our uses! | |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 9:58:03 PM | Taking away thier liberty pretty obviously doesnt work does it???? 
Its not a severe enough punnishment if people reoffend. Sure theres some people with underlying psychological problems who just cant help it and wont change...
but with everyone else they just need a combination of appropriate rehabilitation/education to give them a choice other than crime, and punnishment to deter them from the "easy" option of going back to crime. Ultimately the theorys that simple.
make prison so horrible for everyone that theyd rather be on the dole below the breadline than committing crime and ending up in prison again. Theyll soon learn then!!! | |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 10:28:42 PM |
Taking away thier liberty pretty obviously doesnt work does it????
Its not a severe enough punnishment if people reoffend. Sure theres some people with underlying psychological problems who just cant help it and wont change...
but with everyone else they just need a combination of appropriate rehabilitation/education to give them a choice other than crime, and punnishment to deter them from the "easy" option of going back to crime. Ultimately the theorys that simple.
make prison so horrible for everyone that theyd rather be on the dole below the breadline than committing crime and ending up in prison again. Theyll soon learn then!!!
What a ridiculous statement! There are many countries around the world with much harsher prison environments than our own - Take the USA for example. Us prisons are not just harsh... they're downright dangerous, and well known for it too. They even have the 'three strikes policy' in the US penal system that was mentioned earlier.
Does all of that stop them having one of the highest re-offending rates in the western hemisphere?
Of course it doesn't.
Why is that? It's because [imo] the social and economic conditions outside of the prisons are not conducive to leading the types of lives that will keep people out of prisons. And in fact, [again, imo] the harsh conditiosn of the american prison/justice system not only don't act as a deterrent, they create much greater danger to the general population of society in general as offenders will become increasingly violent against victims or witnesses to their crimes, as well as to the police who try to apprehend them, in order to stay out of prison.
So... by increasing the severity of conditions in our prisons, not only are you not addressing the social and economic factors that cause crime... you will make criminals increasingly desperate in their attempts to evade prison when they are inevitably forced to transgress the law.
I cannot imagine how anyone can see that as a good thing to be honest? | |
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Posted: 10/29/2009 1:22:55 AM | I would just like to talk about a few points mentioned thus far.
The buzzers are not for 'when you want out of your room', why would they lock the doors then? They are for emergencys,
surely you are not so barbaric as to think that if a man is in need of medical treatment, or there is a fire in the cell, or he is
being attacked, that he should be left their to die do you?
Just remember in many of these 'cushy' prisons you speak of, con's are locked up for up to 23 hours a day. Anyone who is brazen enough to call a prison a
holiday camp has clearly never been inside one, but rather is jumping on the media bandwaggon and proclaiming that prisoners are having an all expenses
paid luxuary holiday. Perhaps you should put down your copy of the Daily Mail and read something more informative?
Doing some research into the number of suicides and suicide attemps inside the UK's prisons may help you to illustrate this point, a person inside a prison
is 10 times more likely to try and kill themselves than someone on the outside. And how do they help these suicidal prisoners? They stick them
in an 'observation' cell, with no clothes, a plastic matress and a solid metal toilet. Cushy..
All prisoners are tarred with the same brush when it simply should not be the case, it is complete ignorance. I remember a couple of years ago
reading about the case of a homeless man in London who stole a block of cheese and a pint of milk from a supermarket. As he had no fixed abode so
was remanded in custody for 1 month until his trial, he killed himself within 2 weeks. BUt this is ok, because he broke the law and he must be punished,
isn't it? If a man steals from a massive chain store to eat then he is a criminal and surely deserves everything that he gets. Shame on him.
On the note about having to 'work for your privileges', well yes, you DO have to work for your privileges. You start of in mainstream and by
getting a job and keeping your head down eventually you may be able to progress to a better wing/hall where you are allowed extra visits/extra food
on your canteen sheet/better cells and also more 'open' time. These privileges varey from prison to prison of course.
"How about going into their cells unannounced trashing them and taking all their personal possessions. Of
course these raids would be random, the there would be no way that the police would be able to prosecute
even with DNA evidence, of and of course the raider would have to defecate on the floor.
As they say what goes round comes round."
Sure, Why not go one further and just employ SS death squads? That would sort the problem out wouldn't it?
"The reason why most do not try to escape any more is because it is quite a nice l
ife style in prisons apparently."
'Apparently' being a great choice of words here as it distances you from the error in your statement.
Prisoners do not normally try and escape because they do not normally have the opertunity. Escaping from
custody is also an extremily serious offence, especially if an assault takes place. Tt's just not worth it, everyone
knows they will be caught in the end. Once you try and escape you are watched constantly, you can't wear your shoes in your
cell, you can't stay in a cell for more than 1 month and you can't stay in a prison for more than 6 months
incase you become a security risk.
Feel free to debate. | |
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Posted: 11/1/2009 3:51:03 PM | Thats one of the first comments to make any sense in this thread!
I work in this field, and its very hard for anyone who has not either worked in a prison, or lived in a prison to actually understand the goings on in them.
There is a big confusion between PRIVATE prisons, and GOVERNMENT prisons - HMP Lowdham Grange is a PRIVATE prison.
feel free to ask any questions, and i will do my best to answer..........
Lex, the point you made about the 'telephones' in cells, was bang on, it is a communication device. For many years there has been a 'buzzer' and 'light' system, with the implementation of an 'intercom' system, it takes the pressure off already overworked staff.
Caro | |
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Posted: 11/7/2009 3:01:55 AM | | I used to work in prisons and yes some of them do appear quite luxurious but believe me I wouldn't want to end up in one. For some they are holiday camps for others it's a living hell. | |
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Posted: 11/7/2009 11:51:15 AM | Well I have 2 points to make. If I ever came to power, I would make sure they smashed up every single TV in every single cell, I would make sure that they where punished rather than rewarded for bad behaviour. I would make it mandatory for every prisoner to do a minimum 40 hours a week hard labour and I would also make sure they served their WHOLE sentence and not just a third of it.
My second point is if I don't get into power, I'll do something criminal myself so I get banged up and live for free in a cushy holiday camp, beats the recession any day | |
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Posted: 11/7/2009 3:56:46 PM |
I cant say what it was for but it was there, one of them cheap corded on the wall phones..... maybe its an inside phone to call other inmates for a chat
Or maybe, more sensibly, it was an intercom to the guards? If you stop to think about it, private in-cell phones would be something of a security risk surely? | |
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