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 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 176
What does Friends First really mean?Page 8 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)

But there are also people who never want commitment but want to bang you, spend ongoing tons of time with you, hang out at your family gatherings, but also at the same time have steaming hot sex with a someone who comes into town occasionally and scope the bars & online for new tail.

OK, now wait a minute..That sound pretty bad..Not sure how to explain, but when I have a friend, and we are on a same page about marriage, meaning none of us really crazy about it, but enjoy each other company, I don't see a need to scope anywhere.
In my eyes we are pretty much right for each other.
In my experience she was the one who kept her eyes open, scope the field, because she really was looking to get married. So, many times I got a call, or she said -I have to tell you something, followed by -I met this guy, he wants more than you, I am going to see where it is going to take me.
See, she wasn't looking for a friend, a hang out, she should have been honest with her intentions, but that's another story.
Distance myself? If I never met a women who was OK with it, until she ended up
meeting someone who wants to get married, I would say that's a right things to do.
I even was asked why do I feel like that? I don't know..Can't explain..
Young daughter is the number one reason, again, it's another story.

It's not hard to say... but saying that means "this is platonic friend of mine.

I am sorry, but who is a platonic friend, and who isn't, that's really nobodies business.
Let them think something is going on. My Mom..Gotta love her..LOL
She asked if I was having sex with her..Not in front of her, and not even in English..
So, do the parents suspect anything? It just makes it more interesting..

If you end up seeing that you're spending tons of time with them and do have a sexual relationship woven in there, AND you don't want to be a couple of any sorts but still do what you're doing, you should have a talk with them about NOT being a couple, so they don't get the wrong idea

Absolutely..But I am sure I mentioned a few times since this thread, and out conversation started..Too lazy to go back and look, but I am sure I did mention, that I put my card on the table. So, it's up to her at that point.

If you want to spend more time with them because you really dig them as a person, you're walking into dangerous territory

Yes I realize that.. But mostly because she doesn't take me seriously when I do have a TALK with her about couple hood. Is that my fault?
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 177
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/5/2010 9:47:28 AM

OK, now wait a minute..That sound pretty bad..Not sure how to explain, but when I have a friend, and we are on a same page about marriage, meaning none of us really crazy about it, but enjoy each other company, I don't see a need to scope anywhere.

I know, I made it sound "bad" because I was taking the church-clothes off of it that try and make it "sound better", to shed light on what it CAN -easily- mean, though. Wasn't implying that was someone's intentions with a pure dirty mind, but hey, you wouldn't be violating rules if & when that will happen if time goes on for too long. Your comment -- if you don't see a need to scope -- then you are settling in with her to some degree, and it is something more than just hanging out. And what's up with marriage or bust? You two are casually dating but willing to continue with it and keep it open because she is marriage hunting, and she'll take what she can get with you. I can understand of being scared of commitment with HER if she's got her eyes on a wedding chapel, but honestly, don't call her "a friend" if you're casually dating -- that's where miscommunication comes in.

I even was asked why do I feel like that? I don't know..Can't explain.. Young daughter is the number one reason, again, it's another story.

No, I understand. You probably have good reasons why you don't want the relationship to get serious with her. And if she's looking to get hitched and you're not, that's definitely a good reason to not get serious... but it's a better reason to not see each other much or cut off any sexual relations for at least a good while to make sure she doesn't have issues about it. It's not just about you-you-you, ya know? You're doing the smart thing not wanting the relationship to be amped up into something serious, but at the same time, you can't live it out to hearts content that suits you, knowing she wants more. I would distance things and keep it on a REAL friends level... she wants more than casual dating, but if you spend too much time, you're doing one thing and saying another which leads to frustration when she's not on the same page emotionally.

I am sorry, but who is a platonic friend, and who isn't, that's really nobodies business.

Oh yes it is! Try saying that to a girlfriend. "Oh, that's Sally..." "Yeah? So Sally's JUST a friend...?" "I'm sorry honey, but who is a platonic friend and who isn't is nobody's business." :) Okay, okay, that's obvious there. But actually, it IS even other people's business in particular circumstances. If you're at a gathering and you come in with a girl, and a girl is more than a friend (non-platonic), that IS what they need to know -- and all they need to know technically. They don't want to talk shop about chicks in front of her if she's non-platonic... or introduce you to some other gal if that's the case. Details are nobody's business.. how serious it is is nobody's business, but people close to you or she need to know.

So, do the parents suspect anything? It just makes it more interesting..

Yes, weird... thus interesting. :)

Yes I realize that {dangerous territory}.. But mostly because she doesn't take me seriously when I do have a TALK with her about couple hood. Is that my fault?

She doesn't take you seriously about talking about couplehood because of the situation that you're comfortable with but 90%+ of the population is not. Hey, I'm not looking to get hitched. Things aren't black n white of on-the-road-to-marriage-or-bust when it comes to the dating world. But yeah, what you've pressed to define things -- which is GOOD at least -- still doesn't make it unweird. Just because you're nixing out candles and romantic motifs does not mean you're just friends. In fact, many many people develop serious relationships without all that, and date on an easy-going level for quite some time. That doesn't take away from being a couple. Point being, you're wanting to experience the couplehood thing, but you don't want it official. You can't expect someone who wants to get hitched to be internally okay with that, or to take you seriously about it...

It sounds like she's in a classic situation where she's putting up with it because she likes you as a person, but it will boil over... Don't just think about yourself when you're dating a gal (yes, even casually if it continues). If you meet parents and you're casually dating, you're fooling only yourself to call it "merely friends". I say if you're not comfortable being a couple full-circle (you like it 3 quarters and just calling it friends), and she's marriage hunting, don't be that close with her. You have to put other people's feelings in perspective, otherwise it gets hairy.
 melkiorr
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 178
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/6/2010 1:02:32 PM
I try to avoid those women who want to be friend first...because its always the same song :


Just a way of saying....yeah there coud be something between us...but because i dont wanna feel used for sex, look bad, get hurt/got hurt in the past, want to know you, ill put you as a friend so everything will work my way...and if things dont work, i can alway say that you were only a friend for the whole time...so it wont make me feel bad when i drop you...and mostly i wont feel comitted in any way to you. But she still expect you to be comitted to her, and you better not start looking at any other girl .....

They never ASK you to be friend first....they TELL you. The whole its my way or the highway...
 MissyTrouble
Joined: 7/15/2008
Msg: 179
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/6/2010 3:20:22 PM
holy cow .. people can pick something to DEATH!!

I just want the chance to really get to know a man.. FIRST!!

i mean.. we see a bad boy.. we KNOW we are attracted.. we see mr good boy.. and are not sure. It takes a lil more you know!!

i have absolutely become attracted to "nice guy" types while working with them.. or hanging out in groups before.

my goal is a "nice guy" type..
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 180
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/6/2010 6:10:05 PM

I just want the chance to really get to know a man.. FIRST!!

That has nothing to do it, though. :) When you go out on a date, you get to know them. When you take it casually meeting up, but aren't trying to be platonic (just friends), you get to know them. What do you say to someone you don't want to be just friends with when you first see them? "I don't need to know anything about you -- just kiss me dammit, and never tell me a damn thing!" ? lol

i mean.. we see a bad boy.. we KNOW we are attracted..

Yep... that means you're attracted....

we see mr good boy.. and are not sure.

That means you're not attracted... (not sure = not attracted at this point in time)....

It takes a lil more you know!!

Which is exactly what is the problem. :) If you ran into a cute guy you liked and he told you he's not sure if he finds you attractive... but maybe you could be if he got to know you... would you want to hang out with him any more if there were other cool, cute guys that you know did at least find you attractive? Who wants to deal with someone who isn't attracted to them? The "*" at the end of "... but I could be later on if I got to know ya" won't cut it, sorry - lol. You wouldn't like it either. It's a waste of time!

Find someone you at least find attractive to off the bat, otherwise you've got a massively high % of leading someone on or frustrating someone and wasting each others' time!
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 181
view profile
History
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/6/2010 7:21:09 PM
When you go out on a date, you get to know them. When you take it casually meeting up, but aren't trying to be platonic (just friends), you get to know them

You only get to know them as well as they want you to when trying to impress. I think what most women are saying is they want to know what they're dealing with from a man who's not trying to close the deal, impress, get laid, whatever. They want the "pressure" of the sales pitch revomed.

There's got to be a way to get to know a person for who they are without the whole "act" of who they want you to think they are to get the prize. We like a guy who IS XYZ, not who ACTS like XYZ because he wants us to think that's who he is. No good comes from getting too involved or too attached to someone without this information (unless you like winging it and a lot of short term relationships).
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 182
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/6/2010 8:19:09 PM

You only get to know them as well as they want you to when trying to impress.

True, but when you're meeting someone off a match-making site or the bar, where you want to meet up with them because you find them attractive, saying "friends first" is not going to cause any hesitation in trying to impress. In fact, a "we COULD be more than friends if I'm attracted to you enough..." that "Friends First" implies, actually would make many want to impress even more. I think the setting of a casual meet-up itself can calm any potential "impress impress impress" mentality, but the point is -- saying "Friends First" has nothing to do with someone wanting to impress the other person more or less.

I think what most women are saying is they want to know what they're dealing with from a man who's not trying to close the deal, impress, get laid, whatever. They want the "pressure" of the sales pitch revomed.

Yes, I agree they want the pressure of the sales pitch removed. They don't want to feel like it's some reality blind-date show. I totally understand. That's what a casual meet-up and not really a date per se does. Now many women can mean they just want to take it laid-back and reserved, sure. Many others don't mean a variety of other things, or just utilize it to mean "I don't know yet, don't get too excited".

Point is, the setting of where & how you meet up during the getting-to-know-you phase can prevent or increase a guy (or girl) to be in "impress impress impress" mode. It doesn't at all require a role-play of "just friends and only friends" to keep someone from jumping one's bones. A daytime date, saying you like to take things slow physically, etc. says that in a very short & sweet way, without the misdirection of "friends first" -- which by itself says (and others mean what it says) that you just want to be friends. Hey, going slow is fine, but being just friends and not anything more than friends is weird to most people. And I agree -- many people who say "friends first", don't want to be -just- friends (purely platonic) in the raw form, but some do.

But I understand -- saying that you want to take things slow does mean, hey, I like to get to know someone before really getting into things... a preventative measure so things don't rush. Sure. Things can rush and you'll still get to know them just as well, but you may by that time be a 'couple' of sorts which you may not want. However, using the phrase 'friends first' (ie just friends first) can misdirect people to mean "we're not only taking it slow... there is no 'it'!"
 Mathostx
Joined: 7/26/2009
Msg: 183
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History
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/7/2010 8:55:35 AM

To me, you don't have a relationship until you've also developed a deep connection with someone.


What she said right there is probably the biggest thing to it.


Friendships take a considerable time to develop... you don't "instantly" become a friend any more than one would "instantly" become a relationship.


Now, I can argue against that. It can and does happen. Rarely it seems, but it does happen. I can think of maybe 4 or 5 people that I've gone out with or dated, since I started dating, that the connection was just there from the beginning. Considering that's been over a span of about 16 years, well you can see bout how often that happens. Now a couple of em had been aquaintences (sp) from work or group of friends.

Now as a reply on topic to the thread, yeah I tend to agree it's usually a safety net to make the person feel better if there's no spark or things don't go anywhere or there is no attraction to the other party. BUT, some times it's just a desire to possibly take things slow to get to know the person. Word of warning with this though, if you actually say go to a movie or to dinner or something with the person, and the opportunity is given to make a move, do it, otherwise you're friend zoned. Because when that happens they may like you or think you're cute, but, they're gauging whether you're interested in them.

From personal experience I've had 1 or 2 people do that, say they wanted to be friends first. We went to a movie, went dutch on it, after the movie ended up hanging out, she put me in situations where I had ample opportunity to make a move on her. Since I had just been told the night before she just wanted to be friends first, I didn't do so. Got friend zoned. Would it of gone different had moves been made? Most likely.

But yeah it is possible to be friends first with someone, you just gotta make sure to create attraction off the bat, show confidence, if you're interested in em maybe give a kiss after the first or second date.
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 184
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/7/2010 4:12:08 PM

There's got to be a way to get to know a person for who they are without the whole "act" of who they want you to think they are to get the prize. We like a guy who IS XYZ, not who ACTS like XYZ because he wants us to think that's who he is[/quot]
I always try to be XYZ..Can't pretend to be a bad boy so she will be attracted to me, because I am not. BTW, I heard that one before, for a life of me I don't get it.
Why would she want a "bad boy"? I mean I know it's a slang, but still..


From personal experience I've had 1 or 2 people do that, say they wanted to be friends first. We went to a movie, went dutch on it, after the movie ended up hanging out, she put me in situations where I had ample opportunity to make a move on her. Since I had just been told the night before she just wanted to be friends first, I didn't do so.

You should have...I mean how else can you find out what she really wants?
Sometimes she say friends, and that's exactly what she means, sometimes she just..um..act like not wanting more because after all she is a lady.
I got intimate with someone who told me AFTER that she didn't know how to bring it up, but she was glad I did. Another time I got a "what a heck are you doing look too..
So, it's a chance "friends" take..But it has to feel good..You should feel the vibe.
Anyway, I feel good, I am a sexiest user..LOL
It's a joke, I know you all got a same thing..
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 185
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/7/2010 5:00:35 PM

BTW, I heard that one before, for a life of me I don't get it. Why would she want a "bad boy"? I mean I know it's a slang, but still..

Yeah, "bad boy" is a vague term. It can mean the classic "tough guy", "biker guy", musician, bartender, etc. who's an a$$hole most of the time and has a big ego, but a particular demographic of chicks go ga-ga over that "banned from meeting the parents" kinda guy. The other "bad boy" means a guy who can be seen as a guy who pick up a gal pretty easily... the player-type if you will. Not necessarily the an a$$hole, but "bad" because he won't want to settle for 'her' because he can get a better gal (to a hot girl, he's not necessarily a "bad boy").

"Nice Guy", as that girl up there referred to, is a guy they don't know if they're attracted to or not, but is great on paper and wants to give it a chance, because the bad boys were either (a) too much an a$$hole, or (b) just in a better league of attraction and she couldn't get him (hence, he was 'bad' for not liking her).

You should have...I mean how else can you find out what she really wants?

By what she stated in the first place by drawing the line in the sand -- "Friends First"! :) But I understand what you're saying... don't take their word for it, because some gals don't mean what they say. In the whole "dating world", I will admit that "Friends First" many times (certainly not ALL the time), is the least of the cloud of smoke put up there. However, if she does put "Friends First" out there, seems wholesome, and she displays no signs of attraction, it can be hard to jump out there to make a move. Many times though, if you are even going out, that by ITSELF means you will see some signs of attraction coming your way, so you can at least make a mild move that is not "just friends", even though that's the warm-n-fuzzy term she used.

It's all a judgment call in that situation if you were to make any sort of move. Continuing to hang out with a girl in the Friend Zone with zero sexual tension, will basically give you Zero chance getting out of it, if continued after 2 outings.
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 186
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/8/2010 5:13:45 AM

By what she stated in the first place by drawing the line in the sand --

That's right..in the SAND...LOL..So, that "line" could be erased very easily..
And I agree with you about sexual tension..It just has to be there for you to make a move..She gives you a look..Crosses her legs..Mmm..Sharon Stone..
Than again you could read her displays wrong, than it might be awkward, but you two might laugh it off, and than at least you know, right?
And try again in a few weeks..LOL
But seriously, to me it's like this.
JUST friends zone, when you got no chance, don't even try, than there is a FRIEND zone, when you see some signs that you should try.
Some call it a HANG OUT zone, so I'll use that..LOL
Just be careful, not to cross into ..play dramatic music..a BOYFRIEND zone..
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 187
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/8/2010 11:20:23 AM

That's right..in the SAND...LOL..So, that "line" could be erased very easily..

Nice play on words...
Sally: I said NO! No means no! Why did you put your hands up my skirt? I firmly drew a line in the sand!
Bob: Well, that line can be erased easily... with my hands, too!

Than again you could read her displays wrong, than it might be awkward, but you two might laugh it off, and than at least you know, right?

That's the problem with someone saying "Friends First". If their tone and attitude flows with it being platonic just as the phrase actually says, you'll scratch your head over why she's even wanting to go out one-on-one. She'd have to be a dream, IMO to have it worth not wasting your time only to face the high-liklihood of disappointment, if you're not looking to just find a new actual Friend.

JUST friends zone, when you got no chance, don't even try, than there is a FRIEND zone, when you see some signs that you should try.

Gee, you're breaking it down to two segments. Basically, there's the Friend Zone and everything else (they are genuinely attracted to you). You really like to re-define Friends in the guy-girl world, don't ya? :) Why not keep it simple? You define a gal as a friend if there's nothing going on between you two, nor awaiting to be, except on a strict platonic level. I use the word "JUST" to stress the fact that there's nothing under the radar (like benefits or crushes or whatever). I think people use the word "Friend" -because- they know it means platonic -- ie "nothing's going on"... because it gives a sense of security of lack of expectations, drama, etc. I gripe because in that case it's falsely using a term as cover for one's comfy-zone (and can cause confusion).

Some call it a HANG OUT zone, so I'll use that..LOL

Yes... good idea! But I wouldn't call that a Zone, though, but instead more like a situation that may be between you and a gal. Hanging Out would be more of a phase within the Dating Zone (even though you may not be officially Dating).

The popular term Friend Zone or Dating Zone uses Zone to mean where you're placed in their mind of -liking- you -- not how exactly they wish to handle the situation.

I like the "zones" just as opposite sides. Are they -actually- into me or aren't they? The zones are not about what they want with me in the future or looking for with me, blah blah -- but more of a categorization of if they like ya, if they don't. If they are, (you're in their black book), then it can be interesting to see as to how much eagerness they have, what they're comfortable with (just hang out or jumping into Dating mode quick?), etc.
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 188
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/8/2010 3:22:46 PM

Sally: I said NO! No means no! Why did you put your hands up my skirt?[/quote}
Well, here we go again...In THAT case no means no, and that line can not be erased!!
You now accusing me being a sexual predator. That's not even close what I was talking about. If I try something and I get slapped in a face, or get drink thrown in my face, that's a pretty clear sign that she wants none of it..Or should I say nine of me?..LOL
Now who is playing on words?

Why not keep it simple? You define a gal as a friend if there's nothing going on between you two, nor awaiting to be, except on a strict platonic level. I use the word "JUST" to stress the fact that there's nothing under the radar (like benefits or crushes or whatever). I think people use the word "Friend" -because- they know it means platonic -- ie "nothing's going on"... because it gives a sense of security of lack of expectations, drama, etc.

It is simple!!! Sorry, but I disagree that saying friends automatically means platonic.
You kind of repeating yourself about it..And I kind of repeating myself about it.
And yes, I break it down to those two segments. "You got NO chance friend", and a "Sure we can get naked and have fun friend".
Zones..Pfftt..The only zone I admit is a speeding zone..
That's why this whole dating seems complicated to some..We have zones..Rules..
Analyzing who said what, when, to whom, what was the tone of the voice..Arrgghh..
He calls me too many times..He doesn't call me enough..
I gotta stay out of the forums..LOL
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 189
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/8/2010 5:13:52 PM

Well, here we go again...In THAT case no means no, and that line can not be erased!!

My point was that if she said "I'm drawing this line in the sand", it doesn't mean it can be erased. Therefore, just because someone draws a line in the sand doesn't mean "oh, it's sand, it can be erased easily!" My ridiculous fictional situation was pointing out how it was a play on the word 'sand'. :) In other words, drawing a line in the sand doesn't mean it's meant to be changed. It's about setting boundaries (like in a sandbox, hence the term).

"Sure we can get naked and have fun friend".

But that isn't JUST the word 'friend'. I have no problem with that. By your rationale, if a girl you've been hanging with and fooled around with said "I wanted to tell you that I think we should just be friends," you would be confused. Your definition of just being friends could be non-platonic or platonic, since using "friends" solo doesn't imply being platonic to you.

I think I know where you (and others) get the "Using the term 'friends' by itself doesn't mean it's platonic" thing. I'm being honest about this, too:

If I'm dealing with a gal that I'm hanging with and I make reference about some gal in convo, I'd refer to her as "my friend Sally", even though Sally may be in my "black book" and not JUST a friend. If I'm not dating a gal, but getting to know her and we start to hang out, I may refer to her in convo with a buddy of mine as a 'friend' -- although that is vague -- but if he knows she and I are hanging out, then he "knows what I mean". I wouldn't do that really, unless said girl was pretty much meaningless in my life in terms of dating potential. I would instead say "Sally, this girl I'm going out with next week" or something along those lines if they didn't know, and just "Sally" if they did (no label required).

BUT when you sit someone down and say "Let's just be friends", that's different, right? You have to admit that. Now why is it different? Because you're leveling with -them-, about you and she... it's a different context. So if I tell the girl beforehand that I want to be "Friends First", it's in that same context -- you're laying out how you want to be with them, just the same as breaking it to someone. You're not making reference to someone about someone else -- it's you and them.

Hence, defining things as "friends" without an add-on like "more than" or "with benefits" or "who run around naked and make out", etc., when said to her about you and her means platonic in the same sense as sitting someone down -after- hanging out and saying "let's just be friends".

Point being, at least when you're talking to THEM directly (or audience in a profile directly), if you are going to give it a label, keep in mind that it's in the same context as if you sit someone down you've been hanging out with or seeing a bit and draw a labeling line. That's why when I see "friends first", it's the same as if after I was hanging with a girl and she said "let's just be friends".
 afashionlady
Joined: 4/19/2008
Msg: 190
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/9/2010 4:35:40 AM
LOL...you and Zuglo could go on and on and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Neither of you is gonna make the other change their minds.

Confident, if a man or a woman absolutely refused to consider dating someone and will always relegate that person to "friend" status, they won't EVER be open to the idea of saying that the person is or could be more. They will spend their lives friending men or women and never moving beyond that. And maybe, for whatever jacked up reason they might have, that's ok. Zuglo and others who won't/can't consider the word dating as a viable, realistic term for what they're doing are perfectly within their right to do so. Will these people ever be happy? According to Zuglo, he is quite content with not having anything concrete--it's the women he deals with who aren't. In his mind, they have the "problem" and he is more than willing to let them go--and apparently with no regrets. You won't get him to see anything else but what he sees.

Zuglo, realize that saying all you want is a "friend" will sometimes cause you to not attract women. I see your profile now says hang out. For some women, that's the kiss of death and no matter what you say in your profile they won't read that far. Yes, for you and your situation, that is probably the best choice. You can't argue about it or suggest that POF change their types of relationships cause well...it's their site. What you can do is seek out other women who are seeking the same thing and realize that perhaps your definition of "dating" is so restrictive that you could be missing out on a woman who thinks like you. And understand that even with your very detailed explanation of what you think is friends is really a friend with benefits (the sex part, like it or not, IS the benefit). What you've described, someone going out to movies, meeting your child and family...in the traditional sense, Europe or not, it is dating. The "I'm from Europe so that's what we do" card is played out my friend...you've been here long enough that you can't use that one any longer. And Zuglo, consider that your pond has grown stagnant and you need to fish in other waters!

The 2 of you can spend another 5 pages having these long, lovely discussoins or go to your respective corners and understand and respect each others point of view...and move on.
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 191
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/9/2010 4:44:13 AM
My point was that if she said "I'm drawing this line in the sand", it doesn't mean it can be erased.

I was try to be humorous with a sand comment..Course if she says something and she means it, like -I will not have sex with you, than it doesn't mean you can ignore that, because than you will lose her as a friend, and she will start a thread about how guys are a$$holes..
But sometimes you take your chances, as we are agreed, if the vibe is there.
She says no, but it's not a firm no, if that makes any sense..

By your rationale, if a girl you've been hanging with and fooled around with said "I wanted to tell you that I think we should just be friends," you would be confused.

WRONG..Because than she become a JUST friend..The word JUST, transform my brain, and erases all the sexual thoughts about her.
You don't understand how the word JUST is very important to me. She says lets' JUST be friends, or she says let's be friends first, witch is this thread is all about.
TO ME, there is a difference..And I think for others too..See below..

I think I know where you (and others) get the "Using the term 'friends' by itself doesn't mean it's platonic" thing

At least you admit I am not alone..

BUT when you sit someone down and say "Let's just be friends", that's different, right? You have to admit that.

Yes..There is a word JUST again..
You know it is possible to sit down with someone, and talk about everything, and I mean everything..So, both of you know where you stand.
But according to the forums, some of the topic are taboo, and I disagree with that.
Tastefully done, no topic should be taboo..90% of the forum thread would disappear, if people would talk about things before hand, rather than start a thread about how he is a dog, or she is a b1tch.

That's why when I see "friends first", it's the same as if after I was hanging with a girl and she said "let's just be friends".

Maybe she tells let's just be friends, witch means she isn't interested getting naked with you, maybe she won't tell you that, and than you take a chance with her. It's all comes down to another hot topic for you. Even tho this is a dating site, not everyone is here to find a wife/husband.

PS.Who is Sally?? You keep referring to her...Just kidding, guess you just like that name..LOL
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 192
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/9/2010 4:59:23 AM
Neither of you is gonna make the other change their minds.

I am not trying to..But Confident Realist admits that I am not the only one thinks that friends means platonic..It's a small victory for me..LOL

your profile now says hang out. For some women, that's the kiss of death
your profile now says hang out. For some women, that's the kiss of death
I blame Confident Realist for that...
Going to the movies, meeting child and family IS dating???
So, the guy never meets the other guy child and family, or the two guys are dating, and they don't even know it?? Or is it apply to the male-female only?
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 193
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/9/2010 11:20:02 AM

WRONG..Because than she become a JUST friend..The word JUST, transform my brain, and erases all the sexual thoughts about her.

I know you see it that way...it was that if you were to use the same rationale as "Friends First", where the line is drawn in the (hardened) sand in the -beginning- instead of having a sit-down conversation later, you'd have to be confused. My point being, you're looking at it too differently -- both are lines in the sand. I understand though, you're taking the initial line in the sand ("Friends First") as being actual sand. But here's another kicker -- "Friends First" -- implies JUST FRIENDS by the phrase alone. I know, I know, any -beginning- line in the sand COULD be more treated like real sand (changeable) than a later sit-down talk, sure. But my point is, "Friends First" does mean JUST friends, regardless of -potential- slang-use they may be employing.... it clearly means "just" friends, because of the "first" at the end. It means "Just Friends for Now, maybe more than friends later". How much weight does that "maybe" carry? And for how long? Is it during the first meet-up, but nixed when walked to the car if they like you? Does it mean being just friends for x-amount of dates or hang-outs until they feel like it (god forbid one gets themselves in that situation)? OR is it altogether not meaning what it says, but a slang term for cover just to mean not getting serious, taking it slow emotionally? That is why I just say, "Hey, use Friends First if you mean JUST friends for an indefinite period of time before any possibility of being more than friends... otherwise, just say 'take it slow', 'just hang out first' or whatever. Vagueness is still there, but little if any misdirection."

BUT when you sit someone down and say "Let's just be friends", that's different, right? You have to admit that.

Yes..There is a word JUST again..

Okay, here's an example without the just, to make my point clear (about using only the word friends). "I got to thinking about us and all that, and I came to a realization: I want to be friends... is that okay?" Now, you may say 'well, we ARE friends, ya know...', but you still know what friends by itself means. Now, if you guys mutually labeled your 'situation' as FWB, then it would beg the question of "You mean without the benefits?" But with that aside, if there was no label put on anything, you two were just hanging out, fooling around... casually seeing each other, etc... or maybe platonic friends for years, but moved it into something sexual, too -- what she'd be saying would be loud and clear. Just emphasizes that. "Friends First" says "just" due to the "first". Choosing "Friends" instead of "Hang-Out" on a profile says "No, not just hanging out and keeping things emotionally on the DL... but just Friends."

Even tho this is a dating site, not everyone is here to find a wife/husband.

But that is a moot point, though. This is about being in the Friend Zone vs not being in that Friend Zone. Not being in the Friend Zone does not mean you're looking to get married. You can still casually date or see each other while not being an actual couple. You could have romantic encounters and call it a day. Just because someone realizes that they're more than just a friend, doesn't mean they're officially dating, nor wife/husband hunting. The problem is about defining things between you and someone as JUST Friends adding confusion (just also meaning w/o any other adjectives -- merely the word 'friends'; solo). Because although some people use "Friends First" or even "Friends" as slang to mean more than that, many others don't and go by what it says or very very close to it. "Hang Out" is there for a reason, and in any explanation "Friends First" will only misdirect if you're not looking to be just friends at first (if there even is a second phase).

PS: Sally? Oh, that's my sock-puppet's name! LOL -- I use the term Sally because nobody names a kid Sally hardly anymore -- just a hypothetical female character.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 194
view profile
History
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/9/2010 11:49:28 AM
I don't understand this whole thing about "friends first" myself.
I honestly don't go out with people or hang around people that I
don't consider my friends. If I meet you and we like each other and
we start going out, I just assume we're friends and it can either go
further into a relationship or it will stay at a friendship.

I think saying "friends first" puts you in that "I'm not really sure
but we'll see how it goes" zone. If I'm looking for someone and I
have LTR relationship, it stands to reason that's what I'm looking for
and I'm surely not going to enter into a LTR with someone I don't
consider a "friend".

Seems like a simple thing thats just gotten complicated. I don't think
it helps that people have different understandings of what it means either.

I also don't like it when people say "I'm not in a hurry", "I'm taking things
slow", or my personal favorite "I'm not going to settle" or anything else
like that. I'm pretty sure you never say that to
someone you meet and REALLY like...and why is it necessary to say it
to someone you're not sure of?

Of course that's just my opinion. I guess I've been online and out there
long enough to sometimes realize there really is something between the lines.
 cinsav
Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 195
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/9/2010 1:49:12 PM
Friends first...it seems rather obvious, and in the real world it is. But when you meet someone online, what does "start with a friendship" mean? Who pays when you go out, what sort of contact (hand holding, hugging, kissing?) does a friendship entail? How long should the party who wants to start a relationship wait...men seem to think they will end up in the "friend zone" if romance doesn't happen right away. Do you agree?


I don't waste my time with "friends first" women. I'm not interested in being just another one of your buddies. I am interested in being your romantic interest - which is ABOVE the friends zone. I am interested in DATING you, not hanging out like you're one of the guys.

Men are correct when they assume they'll end up in the friends zone if romance doesn't happen in very short order. Women KNOW if they're going to sleep with you within the first few moments of meeting you. Women KNOW if they're going to date you within the first few moments of meeting you.

Most women are, by nature, affectionate creatures who crave romance from the men they're interested in. Thus, if you're not getting a good night kiss by the end of the first or second date (notice I said first or second DATE - not your first coffee meeting) then you've pretty much been put in the friends category.

Women AND men who demand friends first have issues. Sorry if I've stepped on some of your toes, but it's true.

For me personally. I read a profile that demands friends first - I hit the back button... I don't even waste my time. I don't expect any physical contact after the first coffee meeting... I don't expect any real affection after the first date.... But if I'm not at least getting a good, good night kiss and a little hand holding after the second date? I'm gone. I don't waste my time on a 3rd or 4th date. There's no point - she's already put me in the friends category and will sooner or later hit me with the "you're a really great guy... but...." So I just cut it off sooner than later and put my energies on someone else.

Let me add... I think it is critical that you're BEST FRIENDS with your partner. But there is a HUGE difference in being your buddy and being your romantic interest. Huge difference. Again, as I said at the start of this post, I don't want to be your "friend" ... I want to be the guy you're dating. HUGE HUGE HUGE difference.
 afashionlady
Joined: 4/19/2008
Msg: 196
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/9/2010 11:14:56 PM

Going to the movies, meeting child and family IS dating???


Do you let EVERY woman you meet get to know your family? I sure as heck don't--they have to be someone that I've invested some time and energy in getting to know first.


So, the guy never meets the other guy child and family, or the two guys are dating, and they don't even know it?? Or is it apply to the male-female only?


My quote applies to anyone. If it's 2 guys/2 women/male-female--whatever. If you're seeing someone and they aren't someone that you consider important in your life, why have the family meet them? The last man that I dated that had a teenager didn't introduce me to her until we had been seeing each other for more than 3 months. I was perfectly fine with that--I'm a firm believer of the idea that single parents should limit contact with their kids.

PS...you're a grown up...you're the one who decided to put hang out on your profile.
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 197
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/10/2010 5:15:18 AM
^^^^^Disagree with many thing you said..If she want to meet my family, why not?
Sure I should wait more than three months, just to find out my new friend is terrible with kids, right? Than what..I like her, she is not getting along with my child..
I know, I know..There is about 10 pages about don't let your child met her until you two are serious, because if things don't work out, the child will be seriously damaged.
Pfft..Save me that preach...
I am a firm believer to introduce a child, so you see how the two interact.
About meeting the family, that isn't necessary means formal..I have a pool where I live, so she comes over to swim, and my Mom was at the pool, kind of meeting.
Is that means that she is all that "important"? So, none of your friend meet your Mom, until he is important in your life??? You kidding me??
I agree with Browneyesboo..How can you be with someone that you not look at as a friend?? It might stay like that..It might go further..
To me if she start talking about getting serious in a short time, giving me a time table about us, start asking questions, like where do you see us in five months, or something similar, it's a turn off.. I can hear you saying, I am a commitment phobia, afraid, etc.
Whatever.
 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 198
view profile
History
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/10/2010 6:34:10 AM
"What does Friends First really mean?"
------------
- Please, please, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease let me insert my tiny wiener inside your vagina? *smile*
 shomesomethin
Joined: 5/4/2007
Msg: 199
view profile
History
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/10/2010 7:14:55 AM
Friends First could mean one of several things:
1) She doesn't want you to think she's easy pickin's.
2)She wants to see what you look like in person, and see if your profile is accurate.
3)She wants to find out if you can afford her tastes/wants/needs, in a relationship.
4)She wants to learn more about you.
5) She wants to refrain from repeating past mistakes.
6) She wants to find out if you can financially support her.
7) She wants to find out how "user friendly" you are.
8) She wants to see if you have WELCOME stamped on your forehead.
9) She wants to get an idea of how long it will take to turn you into a whining, sniveling pvssywhipped little b1tch.

 afashionlady
Joined: 4/19/2008
Msg: 200
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/10/2010 7:36:33 AM
If she want to meet my family, why not?


It doesn't matter what the person you're dating wants...when it comes to that. That's not a demand to be made. That's a choice to be decided by you and if they want, by them. *I* decide if a guy gets to meet the family...not him. And that's also something that, when brought up, if he doesn't express an interest then you move on.

[quoteThere is about 10 pages about don't let your child met her until you two are serious, because if things don't work out, the child will be seriously damaged.
Pfft..Save me that preach...

No I don't think that. I think that as a parent, you don't need to bring everyone that you might sleep with around that child. Notice I said sleep with--big difference. Even for family--if I'm just "friends" with a guy and I know there won't be anything beyond that then he doesn't get a meet the family thing. Not necessary. IF you run into family while you're out? Different story completely.

My friends, male or female, especially male, that I am not sleeping with, meet friends, family, whatever. But that's my use of friends--the general use of it. The use that most people use it for--not friend with benefit. They're friends that I hang out with and yes, they meet other friends, etc. But someone that I'm sleeping with is a friend but they're more than just a friend.


I agree with Browneyesboo..How can you be with someone that you not look at as a friend??


LOL...you're kidding right? LOTS of people are "with someone they don't look at as a friend". It's called f**k buddy or casual sex and it's a vastly different category than what you're talking about and what Browneyesboo is more than likely talking about.


To me if she start talking about getting serious in a short time, giving me a time table about us, start asking questions, like where do you see us in five months, or something similar, it's a turn off..


Believe it or not I don't disagree. If a person is on a completely different page than what you're on and it's obvious, then yes it's a turn off. But that's where that talking comes into play. If you're just hanging out--seeing someone casually with sex tossed in, then there shouldn't be ANY talk of where is this going because she too, is just hanging out. Which is why the "dating" choice, for you, is wrong.


I can hear you saying, I am a commitment phobia, afraid, etc.


Actually I'd only say that if a guy decided that he was going to be "friends" with a woman forever, then one day she decided she didn't want to play friends any longer. She doesn't go to him and demand a commitment--on the contrary, since she KNOWS he's not going to want that, she takes her goodies and goes to find a guy who wants what she does. Then the friend guy gets his feelings hurt because he thought they had a good thing going--but he still won't commit to anything more serious. So he loses out. THAT guy might be afraid of commitment to the point that he's willing to let someone he's truly interested in go.

You...nah. From what you're writing, you may be afraid of commitment for some other reason but in the example you gave, that's not it.


Oh and robertkoi:


Please, please, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease let me insert my tiny wiener inside your vagina? *smile*


It's a damn good thing I wasn't drinking coffee...now THAT'S funny as hell (I'm sure Zuglo won't find it funny though!!!!)
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