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 AUTHOR
 sosdd
Joined: 12/14/2009
Msg: 201
What does Friends First really mean?Page 9 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
It means friends. If anything happens beyond that wonderful, but friends are great to have.
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 202
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/11/2010 5:48:43 AM

now THAT'S funny as hell (I'm sure Zuglo won't find it funny though!!!!)

Why would I find it funny that he has a tinny wiener? Or that he thinks that way?
Why should I care?
On the side note, grown men, assumable grown men, saying wiener , instead of penis?
Alright than..

It means friends. If anything happens beyond that wonderful, but friends are great to have.

Pretty simple eh?...Forget zones, reading between the lines..
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 203
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/11/2010 6:04:58 AM

? LOTS of people are "with someone they don't look at as a friend". It's called f**k buddy or casual sex and it's a vastly different category than what you're talking about and what Browneyesboo is more than likely talking about.

Hm...So, you telling me that your fvckbuddy is not someone you see your self be friend with??? That you would have sex with someone don't see yourself being friends with?? Prostitutes think pretty much like that..It's all about the money..

My friends, male or female, especially male, that I am not sleeping with, meet friends, family, whatever.

Well, you pretty easy to figure out than..You bring a guy to meet the family means you sleeping with him, right?
Interesting.. As I said earlier, who is my platonic friend, and who isn't, is between me and her.
 afashionlady
Joined: 4/19/2008
Msg: 204
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/11/2010 6:42:01 AM

Hm...So, you telling me that your fvckbuddy is not someone you see your self be friend with??? That you would have sex with someone don't see yourself being friends with?? Prostitutes think pretty much like that..It's all about the money..


Don't be crass. A FB isn't the same as a "friend" in your definition of the word. And yes people have sex that they don't see themselves as being friends with--I didn't say *I* did, I said that people have casual encounters all the time. If you have sex with a woman (or a man, for the ladies) on a first date and never deal with them again...is that a friend? That's not prostitution...people have sex with no friendship ALL OF THE TIME. Your judgment is showing...

Now I say...

My friends, male or female, especially male, that I am not sleeping with, meet friends, family, whatever.


And you read...

Well, you pretty easy to figure out than..You bring a guy to meet the family means you sleeping with him, right?


Reread what I wrote. I said that male friends that I don't sleep with meet friends and family. I should have expanded that to say that platonic friends in my world hang out with friends and family all the time. And yes, if I do bring someone to meet my family who isn't a platonic friend, we're beyond your "friend" stage.


Interesting.. As I said earlier, who is my platonic friend, and who isn't, is between me and her.


Fair enough...but you've never had family ask you about someone who's around? Or do they all assume that it's "just a friend of Zuglo's"?
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 205
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/11/2010 7:06:03 AM



Reread what I wrote. I said that male friends that I don't sleep with meet friends and family. I should have expanded that to say that platonic friends in my world hang out with friends and family all the time. And yes, if I do bring someone to meet my family who isn't a platonic friend, we're beyond your "friend" stage.

That is way to complicated to me...I bring someone, and maybe I should have those sticky name tag saying if I do sleep with her or not?
Or it should say we're beyond out "friend" stage?
Family member asking about her? All the time..So?
I do not need my Mommy permission anymore...

 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 206
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History
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/11/2010 7:16:12 AM
Zuglo's approach to women seems terrible to me. Instead of that "please, please, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease let me insert my tiny wiener inside your vagina" attitude, maybe you should stop pleading and say what you want instead. Friendship first is probably the most stupid "technique" that one can possibly use. You're putting yourself in the dreaded friend zone from the very beginning. Maybe you should let her categorize you before you put that "low" label on yourself. In any case, if A wants more than just a boring friendship with B, A should walk away with his/her pride intact. I think that a lot of men, AND women, know exactly what it's like to be in that situation. It stinks, it really does.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 207
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History
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/11/2010 8:44:59 AM

You're putting yourself in the dreaded friend zone from the very beginning.

I was of the impression that Zuglo actually wants to AVOID the relationship zone. Where are you getting the impression he wants more with the lady in question and she doesn't? What pride is he salvaging here? Did I miss something?
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 208
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/11/2010 11:02:50 AM

Disagree with many thing you said..If she want to meet my family, why not?

Because unless it's made loud and clear that you two are platonic friends only -- it amps up the 'serious' factor, whether you like it or not. Not the same 'serious' factor for everyone, but relatively speaking it does. That's why not, if you're looking to just be casually dating. Even you not liking to call it casually dating, even two people casually dating shouldn't "meet the parents" or go to Cedar Point with the kids together -- because that moves it in a NON casual direction. Now, if you do want to move into a more non-casual direction, yeah, it's a great move!

I am a firm believer to introduce a child, so you see how the two interact.

I see what you mean, and there is that benefit to it. And depends on the kids' age. Younger kids can grow attachment and isn't the best thing... even though a benefit can be seen how well they get along with each other. Point being, if you're seeing someone THEN get introduced to the family, you're amping things up between you two to some degree. If you're not in position to be a couple, don't do it.

So, none of your friend meet your Mom, until he is important in your life??? You kidding me??

A FRIEND, that's fine. Someone you're seeing and introducing a gal to your mom? You can do that, but that's amping things up. That says "I just dont want to hang out with you -- I want you to meet the family; I'm bringing us into couple-mode." What are you going to say to your mom? "Oh, no mom -- I'm not dating her. She's a friend I hang out with and pork." If that's the case, and you're JUST hanging-out as far as any 'relationship' would be concerned, why introduce them to family?

How can you be with someone that you not look at as a friend?

Exactly. They're going to be a friend to you, platonic, non-platonic, serious-intentions, non-serious-intentions. They'll be a confidant. Should I say, "Oh Sally? Yeah, she's a confidant," just because a wife, girlfriend, FWB or platonic friend all are a confidant? I'm misdirecting people if I were to say that and Sally was a gal I was seeing.

To me if she start talking about getting serious in a short time, giving me a time table about us, start asking questions, like where do you see us in five months, or something similar, it's a turn off.. I can hear you saying, I am a commitment phobia, afraid, etc.

I personally wouldn't see you as a commitment phobe if a gal brought that up on a 3rd date or something. But what makes me scratch my head is that you're open to introducing a gal to your family or kids, at least partially to see how they get long and all that (visions of future), but not about where you see each other in 5 months? I would hope that wouldn't be within the same time-frame. That question "where do you see us in 5 months" means serious-thoughts-of-future, as does "meet the parents".

I bring someone, and maybe I should have those sticky name tag saying if I do sleep with her or not?

I would say whether she's JUST a friend or not, yes. How serious your relationship is and its expectations aren't anyone's business (even though parents will many times want to know)... but whether you and she are together in some way or just friends is basic basic stuff, man!

You not wanting that is what makes you a commitment phobe. What you're missing is this: If you don't want labels, why are you labeling them as a Friend and leaving it at that? Why not say Confidant? You're giving it a label -- not a vague one per se, but one that points to the direction of (Just) Friend Zone, which is not the case in circumstances where you don't want to settle down. If you don't want to settle down with a gal, don't do family intros! Don't live the life of a couple by actions and reap the benefits of that by its attention & closeness, but say "Oh no, we're just friends" to avoid obligations and balls & chains. :)
 RobertKoi
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 209
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History
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/11/2010 1:46:36 PM
Womaninprogress: I know that you're in love with me, but hey, climb off my back, okay? :)
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 210
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/11/2010 8:47:52 PM

Friendship first is probably the most stupid "technique" that one can possibly use

I agree.. even if people don't mean it literally, it still causes confusion.

You're putting yourself in the dreaded friend zone from the very beginning.

I wouldn't necessarily say that, if they followed it up by making it clear that they're not meaning it literally. But many do mean it literally. But if they don't though, it's still conflicting with the label they're going out of their way to give by it, which the other person isn't going to ignore off the bat just because their description differs some. If you know they're not meaning it literally, you won't necessarily be in the friend zone, although after meeting you, they could use that term to twist it back into 'oh I meant just friends' -- I think that's why it gives people a creature comfort of control. If they do mean what it says, then yeah, they want you (or guys in general) to be in the friend zone in the beginning, which is a red flag about them (and means small % of any chance if they still mean it after meeting you).

Maybe you should let her categorize you before you put that "low" label on yourself. In any case, if A wants more than just a boring friendship with B, A should walk away with his/her pride intact.

Actually, in Zuglo's defense, she has more future-feelings about him than he does of her. They are a couple of sorts (non-committed; you can see other people), but he doesn't want to be tied down with her (due to his understandable reasons) and have that label. He's not in any danger of being in the friend zone because they've established themselves as more than that already. He's in the casually-dating arena, outside the friend zone... He is knowingly willing to risk losing what he has with her for the sake of keeping himself in an open casual relationship of sorts and just calling themselves friends, so he's well past worrying being seen on just a platonic-only level.

He's actually in a different spot than you may think. He like many relatively normal guys kicks things off in a casual, no-expectations situation... his problem though is he continues it into casual dating but wanting to just call things friends... and even meet the parents while having something going on with a girl and meshing lives some for a good long while and still not wanting to have any commitment or recognition of any couplehood on any level. He isn't risking the gal thinking of him as a platonic friend.
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 211
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/12/2010 4:27:53 AM
Womaninprogress: I know that you're in love with me,

Yeah, you wish buddy..

Zuglo actually wants to AVOID the relationship zone.

True dat..LOL
Friend zone maybe dreaded for some, but I like being there..
Like my friends were accusing me of, ME leaving the lady if she wants to get serious, it's the other way around..If I don't slip a ring on her finger in a acceptable time zone for HER, here she comes with -"We have to talk, I feel like I am wasting my time with you, because I want to get married, and you don't seems like you do" speech..
Pride? Pfftt..I can wait to hear the explanation on that..Probably more name calling coming my way, but that's OK..
Confident..I have a feeling that you might over thinking this a little..labels, zone..
And as I said earlier, we are not talking about formal meeting, like when I say to my parents hey there is a girl I want you to meet, let's say this weekend at 5 in this restaurant. That has a serious ring to it. I think at that point Moms get all misty eyed, knowing that her little man all grown up, and have a serious girlfriend.
On the side note, my Dad is in Slovakia, and Mom passed away in June, so in my case that type of meet the family will never happen.
But, when Mom was alive we were going swimming,in the apartment complex pool, I called my friend Sally..LOL and asked her of she wants to come here, many time with her kid/s.
Now did that mean she is my ___what? Platonic, non platonic, friend, the girl I am seeing, or just a gal who came to spend time with us?
Just like when we got invited to her barbecue on the weekend, and that time I met her family members..Was I labeled as her ___what?
I just don't get it, and never will. Maybe to me it's not a big deal to meet family, kids.
Maybe to some it's a big step in their relationship, maybe it means the next step.
To me means she is OK with my kid, I am OK with hers, never really though twice about meeting her family being a big deal.
What is wrong with being in a (and I like that) casual dating, outside the friend zone?
IF both parties are OK with it, because it has been discussed!
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 212
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/12/2010 9:04:37 AM

have a feeling that you might over thinking this a little..labels, zone..

Actually, I'm trying to just make it pretty basic and simple... sometimes explanations seem more complex than the idea itself, because of how difficult it can be to explain, and I believe this is one of them. Calling someone merely a friend or confidant, when there is "something" going on sends the wrong signal, that's all. Friend Zone = just-friends feelings . Dating Zone = sexual attraction. Pretty simple, right? Of course, I can easily ramble on to explain that the 'Dating' in 'Dating Zone' doesn't necessarily mean you're actually Dating, but that the sexual attraction is enough where you'd at least be date-worthy if they were ready to date. See? Sounds like I made it more complex, but it's not. :)

we are not talking about formal meeting, like when I say to my parents hey there is a girl I want you to meet, let's say this weekend at 5 in this restaurant. That has a serious ring to it. I think at that point Moms get all misty eyed, knowing that her little man all grown up, and have a serious girlfriend.

Yes, okay, we see things eye-to-eye about meeting the parents. However, I will say that if you're hanging with a girl who wants to meet the parents, and you arrange it, it's not going to be too far off from meeting them at a restaurant at 5 on the weekend. It's a planned event. I'm not saying if you happen to be walking in the mall with your girl (but not girlfriend!) you throw a coat over her if you see a parent walking within a 100ft radius. Just something planned to meet. The intentions are there. No candelit dinner or official announcement required that it amps things up.

But, when Mom was alive we were going swimming,in the apartment complex pool, I called my friend Sally..LOL and asked her of she wants to come here, many time with her kid/s.
Now did that mean she is my ___what? Platonic, non platonic, friend, the girl I am seeing, or just a gal who came to spend time with us?

Again, it's pretty simple. If you and Sally were just-friends, there wouldn't be any thoughts about it. Regardless of how "serious" it is, it is what it is, if you're seeing each other on any level. The kids don't know how often you pork their mom, or the expectations you and she have for the future -- and neither did your mom. So as far as they're concerned -- is it a gal you're seeing or a gal who's in the same boat as your buddy's wife, ie platonic? How to introduce her? Personally, I wouldn't bring her home where the parents were, and to bring the kids. It may not have much pre-meditated motive, but regardless, the result would amp things up, even if *I* just wanted to focus on getting a tan. If I were to, I'd tell my mom in that case that there's a gal I've been seeing -- Sally -- and it's not too serious or anything, but I thought she and her kids would like to come over. When she did come over, I'd say "this is Sally". Now, would I do that if I was just casually dating? No. My mom would ask questions about she and I, which WOULD make it weird. I could try and use it as cover and say we're just friends, but that route would be a lie. If I wanted to do more than casually date, I would just say this is Sally, a girl I'm seeing, and bringing her and her kids over to the pool would move things in a more grounded direction, and hopefully Sally would be good with it moving in that direction too.

Just like when we got invited to her barbecue on the weekend, and that time I met her family members..Was I labeled as her ___what?

When you give it no label, and they know you're not just friends, each individual will come up with their own phrase... "that's Sally's man", "her boyfriend", "the guy she's seeing", etc. Giving it no label (solely the word 'friends' is a label) is alright, I think.

Maybe to me it's not a big deal to meet family, kids. Maybe to some it's a big step in their relationship, maybe it means the next step.

It varies on how big of a step it ends up being. It is a "next" step, yes. Stepping more outside mere casual dating. You're meshing lives more. If it is just-a-friend, a friendship gets a little closer. If there's something between you and a gal, it draws things closer too.

What is wrong with being in a (and I like that) casual dating, outside the friend zone? IF both parties are OK with it, because it has been discussed!

Nothing's wrong with casual dating! Confusing someone into thinking you want to just be their friend and come to find out you meant to just casually date was the original issue... and also, when casually dating, you should look out for things that make it more than casual... as what you DO together and the frequency defines how casual it ENDS UP really being over time. If half your clothes are at Sally's place, and you find yourself dropping Sally's kids off at soccer practice, and going over to her parents' periodically -- it's not that casual anymore.

So my ramblings are about not expecting something to be only what you wish to label it, when the actions dictate how things are, as the actions by themselves, if they paint a rather clear picture, give it the actual label... and thus, to take what you and Sally end up doing over time into consideration when thinking about if things are getting too serious for your blood or not, despite how convenient & cozy it may be, if you don't want to be too serious.
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 213
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/12/2010 3:58:39 PM

Personally, I wouldn't bring her home where the parents were, and to bring the kids.

OK..Well, again, I do not see anything wrong with that..Wonder what would you say if I told you, that one weekend Mary come over to swim, the other weekend it was Kathy.
Those names had been changed BTW, to protect those ladies identity/dignity
I can't call everyone Sally now can I?
Come to think of it, wonder what my Mom was thinking?..LOL
That I have a harem? Nah..As I said before my Mom, did asked me personal questions, never bothered me, I joked with her telling her that she'll have a few other grand kids.
She didn't think that was funny..Either way, I don't know how many times I must say this, who am I "porking", is nobodies business.

It varies on how big of a step it ends up being. It is a "next" step, yes. Stepping more outside mere casual dating. You're meshing lives more. If it is just-a-friend, a friendship gets a little closer. If there's something between you and a gal, it draws things closer too.

Again, I don't see it as a next step. Friendship gets a little closer? I am fine with that, but wouldn't say closer, I would say better. I think that's how the BFF things starts.
You hang out with her more. But..Again..To me that doesn't mean she should call me her boyfriend, because to me I am not, I am just her better friend or something.
Here we go with a zones, and labels, signs.

If half your clothes are at Sally's place, and you find yourself dropping Sally's kids off at soccer practice, and going over to her parents' periodically -- it's not that casual anymore.

Well, yeah, I would pick up on those signs too..
I mean having her toothbrush here, or picking her kids up, yeah, I agree that would not be casual.
Oh wait!! Once my friend called me, her kids baseball game run late, and they missed the bus. And I went to pick them up!!! So, I hope doing it one time didn't transformed me into a boyfriend..LOL
So, to end this entertaining thread, I think doing things together, and not being in a relationship IS possible, if me and Sally are on the same page. Just can't see why not?
Like another thread about a women who apperantly seeing my twin brother. We are
twins because the way he thinks.
She wants more, he isn't ready, and probably never will.
It's under exclusive dating, or something like that..
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 214
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/12/2010 7:08:55 PM

Well, again, I do not see anything wrong with that

And someone else may not see anything wrong with having a discussion about where you two see yourselves in the future together on a 2nd date/meeting. Additionally, you're not the ONLY person on the board there. Sure, you've got family members... their kids... YOU of course... but also her. And like I said before, whether you pay attention to it or not, it DOES amp it up to some degree.

Friendship gets a little closer? I am fine with that, but wouldn't say closer, I would say better. I think that's how the BFF things starts.

Closer, better, route-to-BFF... yeah, exactly. With someone that you're casually dating, it amps that up, too. Imagine you're hanging out with a gal. You never went to her place. Never been in her car. Never met any of her friends. She never has been to your place. Never been in your car. It's LESS. Things get closer when you, even if it's not some big shin-dig, get involved with their personal lives on some level... family, their place, etc. Bringing your kids over to a gal's parents house that you're "being casual with" moves it into a less casual direction, just like having a new friend hanging out at your parents moves it in a closer friendship direction. Common sense. Lots of things do that to some degree, without us thinking about it much if at all.

Knowing that, you can be wise about certain things. Hmmm... Sally really digs me. We've hung out some, but I don't want to get close to her. She wants me to go to her brother's wedding. I'm not going to. Sure, would be convenient to me, but I can look ahead. Even though she presents it as not some huge event, I still don't want to do that despite free booze and possibly a fun time. It will amp things up. Same goes for hanging out at her parents' pool... it's a higher step. Higher compared to what? Compared to never establishing a comfort zone getting to know each others' family.

So, to end this entertaining thread, I think doing things together, and not being in a relationship IS possible, if me and Sally are on the same page. Just can't see why not?

Again, you can. You know I've said that. I think you see things as black n white, like being Friends or In-Relationship-On-Road-to-Marriage. Oh, I'm not in a relationship set for possible future marriage?? Great! I must be Friends then! :)

What you are is based on what you do. Just because you helped a gal out in a bind to pick up her kids once doesn't change the scope of your 'relationship' with her. It's what you do as a routine, as you mesh lives. 90% of the time, many couples aren't kissing or all over each other... going to ball games... hanging out, etc. That doesn't mean they're not exclusive. You find a guy and a gal spending a lot of time together, doing every day things together, meshing lives ... and they're not platonic? Sorry, they're melding into a couple at least to some degree if that becomes established... you are what you do, not what you wish to label it! Your labels can over-ride things and obviously set agreeable boundaries... but you can't pretend nothing's going on and things aren't forming when they are... you have to keep the other person's feelings in mind.
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 215
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/13/2010 4:02:56 AM
but you can't pretend nothing's going on and things aren't forming when they are... you have to keep the other person's feelings in mind

Well, you see that' just it..You think something forming, what we do together amp things up. But it's not always the case, and I do have her feeling in mind, that's where communication comes in. Black and white..You bet..Here are a few example..
My friend went to Florida, brought me some shells from the beach. Gave it to me and said -Don't read anything into this..LOL.. She actually gave me something for Valentine's Day once..Caught me off guard because of course I had nothing for her.
So, you might say/think she was amping things up. Trust me she wasn't.
Or if she was, she was lying when she said she wasn't, and in that case it's her fault.
I collect hippo figurines..I like hippos..Anyway, I have about three from this women I know for about 2 years. Trust me, she is not trying to amp things up, but when she sees one she gets it for me, becasue we are very good friend. Kids have been met, parents have been met, before she started school we hang out often, we still make time to catch a movie, a dinner, etc. Now, you know, after 2 years she knows very well, thing won't get amp up. Neither of us wants to.
So, as you can see you can go to the wedding, barbecue, without amping things up.
What if Sally just don't want to be the only one without partner?
Funny, but once I was asked, she was nervous, and admitted that she didn't want me to think she wants to amp things up, so she almost didn't asked me!
Told her I go, and will not read nothing into it, we had a good time, we weren't confused about anything. Her parents were, they were asking about my job , and some stuff that parents ask from the potential son-in-law..LOL..
Did got a nod from Dad, and Mom gave me a hug, witch did made me feel bad, because I think they were reading something into the situation. Can't please everyone tho.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 216
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/13/2010 9:07:10 AM

My friend went to Florida, brought me some shells from the beach. Gave it to me and said -Don't read anything into this..LOL.. She actually gave me something for Valentine's Day once..Caught me off guard because of course I had nothing for her. ... you might say/think she was amping things up ... Or if she was, she was lying when she said she wasn't, and in that case it's her fault.

Yeah, saying 'dont read too much into this' is "hey, I'm not coming on too strong." Her saying that was to make sure it wasn't "too much" and it wasn't out of having a huge crush. But does that mean it means NOTHING if you two are fraternizing? No. Doesn't mean it's necessarily too much, either. My point is, to -whatever- degree. That by itself, with her saying that, yeah, doesn't necessarily mean that much. And again -- this isn't about "responsibility" or one trying to amp things up. It's about things just happening, regardless of that.

I collect hippo figurines..I like hippos..Anyway, I have about three from this women I know for about 2 years. Trust me, she is not trying to amp things up, but when she sees one she gets it for me, becasue we are very good friend. Kids have been met, parents have been met, before she started school we hang out often, we still make time to catch a movie, a dinner, etc. Now, you know, after 2 years she knows very well, thing won't get amp up. Neither of us wants to.

I think the most important "factor" if you will, is how much time you spend together. Bottom line... so I'm not trying to read too much into the little things. If you guys are platonic friends, all the stuff is meaningless (unless you're trying to see if she really 'likes you' underneath, but that's something entirely different). How much time you spend together is the main factor. And I will say this -- spending less time together distances things, just as a quaint valentines day gift or meeting parents on a casual level brings you -it- closer.

So, as you can see you can go to the wedding, barbecue, without amping things up.

To meet family members? No - not the same as a hippo. No, I understand many actions can be put on the DL, sure. My point is, that doesn't mean they mean nothing. It's within the context of things, and how much time you spend with a gal (who's not a platonic friend) determines what's going on. Meshing lives amps it up. Spending less time together de-amplifies it. Spending more day-to-day time amps it. Kinda simple.

What if Sally just don't want to be the only one without partner?

No, I can understand. If you and Sally are kinda-seeing-eachother, and she didn't want to go solo, that's fine, and it doesn't mean she's trying to create some big romantic connection. I think we're talking about two different things:
- A big bold "move" to solidify things between two people (vs)
- Experiencing adventures together that draws people closer in on a subtle level or maybe obvious level

You going to a wedding with a gal you're kinda seeing -- will draw you closer, assuming things go normally there of course and have a great time with her there. It doesn't mean she's TRYING to create a romantic connection at all... that's not the point.

Say Sally has 2 tickets to go to Europe. You and she have been seeing each other some, but neither likes to rush into things. But she doesn't want to go to Europe alone! She tells you this isn't her trying to make some big "move", but hey, she has an extra ticket... and you accept. Guess what? It's going to draw you closer together, for better or worse outcomes, regardless of what any underlying "intent" was or was not.

Ever hear of "let things happen"? The circumstances & environment can sometimes play a significant role in drawing people together or pushing them apart. If you and Sally went to Europe... and what do ya know! Sleep in the same bed after hitting some pubs... dozing off on each others' shoulders on the trains... spending day after day together... it will draw people together. Now, a European Vacation is a heavy situation... because it has time spent together very close and for a good time.

But meshing lives and comfortable with the family and all that does to SOME DEGREE, which varies on the situation, a bit of that. But that can be stepped back by time spent together as not-just-friends, which is the biggest factor.

I think your situations with Sally's parents should be a clue that maybe you're off-the-cuff when it comes to things and just focus on having a good time, without knowing the obvious signals it can send, even if in reality, they're small. You'll get yourself in a lot of drama if you think that taking a girl you're kinda-with to a wedding, meeting your parents, and you meeting her parents means nothing and won't amp things up. It will, whether you like it or not. Want to undo that? Spend less time with her afterwards I guess would be the obvious solution.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 217
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What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/13/2010 12:38:36 PM
This is all too complicated for me.
I honestly don't hang around with anyone that is
not what I would consider a friend.
I don't consider meeting someone new for coffee
as hanging around with someone. We could say
bye bye and never see each other again. I don't
do that with friends.

I also can't see getting involved with a friends with
benefits thing with someone that I didn't consider a
friend.

I have family, friends and aquaintances. Most people
fit into the aquaintances box. I work with lots of
aquaintances and in a few cases I work with some
friends.

I stand by my earlier post. I don't think you say
"friends first" with someone you clearly see yourself
with. I think you say that to set yourself up for a future
out...as in...I'm sorry...I don't feel any chemistry at all,
but I would love to be friends.

But that of course is just my interpretation of what
"friends" means to me.

I like to keep things simple.

 Whole 9 Yards
Joined: 6/6/2006
Msg: 218
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What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/13/2010 1:53:13 PM
Friends first(girls) means, prepare to friend zoned.

Friends first (guys) means , "Yeah, yeah whatever you say. Can we have sex now?"
 Zuglo
Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 219
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/14/2010 5:06:18 AM
Confident, that's how you see things..It's not a same as I see things, and as I said earlier, it's OK..We are going in circles again..
If I receive a gift from someone, and she says don't read nothing into it, I won't analyze it, OK?
We are both adults, she can speak her mind, I am not good at mind reading!
And meeting family members, etc. will not amp things up TO ME.
If it does to her, than she shouldn't do it. We are not in high school anymore!
If I want something more, I open my mouth, and ask her, so we won't wasting each other times, if we are not on the same page! If I would looking for a GF/wife, trust me, my approach would change, so when I sense that she is looking for a BF/husband, sometimes I am the one who tell her, that I don't think we are on the same page.
You said "it will, whether you like it or not". I disagree!!!
With a lady who gave me those hippos, no we weren't platonic. Yet, after two years, we still friends, nothing got amped up, and never will.
Sorry, but you maybe the type who gets a kiss, and it means a word to you.
You keep saying what will amp things up, but in my experience those things won't.
Now don't get me wrong, I got a speech from some saying I thought we have something special going on! So, to her what we did together did amp things up.
Bu not every woman or man a same!
Going to Europe with someone..Hm..Come on, you blowing things up now!
Not exactly a same as going to the movies is it?
I refuse to believe you can't have a friend, and you two don't want to amp things up!
It's all about knowing what you want, be honest about it, that's all.
And not be desperate, that you want commitment fast, or reading to much into if she holds your hand during a movie, or put her head on your shoulder, or when you two at home watching a movie, and she puts her head on your lap.
Are those "moves"? Or is she comfortable in your presence?
I know which one you going to chose, and I think you know which would be my choice.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 220
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/14/2010 10:23:44 AM

If I receive a gift from someone, and she says don't read nothing into it, I won't analyze it, OK?

If you're seeing her in some way, you don't have to analyze it. You can pay attention to it and not ignore it, though. It's not that hard. It sounds more analytical when breaking it down in text here. :)

And meeting family members, etc. will not amp things up TO ME.

Again, my point was, you're not the only player in the game. But regardless, the situation between you to is drawn closer, if you keep seeing that person frequently. I know you don't agree, but it's the same with a new buddy and you continue to hang out a lot with. I am NOT saying it's necessarily the biggest thing in the world! It's an EXAMPLE in which many things can put writing on the wall.

Sorry, but you maybe the type who gets a kiss, and it means a word to you.

It means a word, but no, it doesn't mean the world! I know it sounds like I'm making every little thing a guy and a gal does the biggest deal on the planet -- but no, that's not it at all. It's the collection of things. Particular things, like going to a gal's family-oriented wedding as a date, can be bigger than others (little mini-gifts). Things can collect over time, but IN THE END -- the main factor is frequency of time spent together anyway. If you lack that, then yes, the collection of particular events end up meaning much less afterward.

So, to her what we did together did amp things up. But not every woman or man a same!

Yes, because of the circumstances. I will grant you, some women will take particular things as bigger "bring us closer" events, and some much smaller. There is an interpretive/gray area, sure, with all other factors considered... but my point has been, it does do SOMETHING.

Someone could say, "Yeah, I've been hanging out with Sally, didn't want to be too serious with her and be a 'couple' because she has a kid and an uptight mom. I'd see her 3 times a week for a few months... met her family... her family knows my family... I moved in with her... what, what? It's all subjective on what has meaning and what doesn't. None of this stuff amped it up to ME..."

Now that's OBVIOUSLY a high-end situation, but my point being, it isn't all just subjective.

And if a gal wants you to meet her parents or she to meet yours, learn to avoid such situations and not think just about yourself but how people generally are emotionally, what things point to, etc.

I refuse to believe you can't have a friend, and you two don't want to amp things up!

You mean a gal you're casually/sorta dating/seeing? Oh absolutely. Main factor: frequency of time spent together. If you ante up on the frequency of time spent together & the more you mesh lives, the less distant it becomes... and after a particular threshold, the less casual it becomes. Interpretive? It can be, sure. Every situations's different. But you just can't say you're far away from couplehood, set boundaries with her in the beginning, then over time actions do the opposite and wonder why Sally is 'wtf', ya know? It's your responsibility not to "be" a couple, just as much as it's her responsibility not to if she doesn't want to either. Over time, feelings change, big or small. You're also responsible for turning down particular adventures or frequency of seeing each other IF you don't want to go toward couple-mode!

My point is that it's not just the words said but the actions you agree to take! Don't want to go into couple-mode? Be more busy... don't see her 3+ times a week. Just like you'll avoid candle-lit dinners and Barry White music playing in the background, not just because it's your "taste", but because of what it employs, avoid other things like big family-gatherings, gifts, weekend trips together, etc... whether it be encouraging them, asking them, or maybe accepting them.

reading to much into if she holds your hand during a movie, or put her head on your shoulder, or when you two at home watching a movie, and she puts her head on your lap. Are those "moves"? Or is she comfortable in your presence?

Could be both. Could be 'moves' she hasn't given any thought about, but wants to... depends on other factors involved. If you guys sat on opposite ends of the couch watching movies every time? More distant than cuddling together. One says a different message than the other. Head on lap or something related, when watching a movie. Don't read too much into it by itself, but include it in the bigger picture, and with a little common sense, you'll see what that coincides with.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 221
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/14/2010 10:51:33 AM
Okay, in my ramblings I've made it sound like some complex world to ya, splitting hairs, etc. etc.

I'll just sum it up here, in reference to Sally, a girl you'd be in "cahoots" with. Not going on a European vacation with, or repeat candle-lit dinners at fancy places are not just your 'tastes' not to do when you don't want to be a "couple" -- but it's your recognition, regardless of what words may be said about boundaries, that it'd clearly mean that you'd be becoming one, so you'd avoid it. We both know particular actions can over-ride what's "said".

What we disagree on is boundaries of actions. I'm not analyzing one little thing by itself when it comes to a low-key V-day gift or a hippo gift... or even meeting parents by itself and only by itself. The main thing is frequency of time spent together when you're in cahoots with someone. Many times things just evolve into something bigger by what you do. Many times the guy & girl's words contradict what they become. Just as what you do can be a notable events (European vacation, weekend trips, candlit dinners you treat her to), co can a collections of things that point in a particular direction.

If you don't want to be a couple, guy or girl, it is your responsibility to factor in what things mean. European vacations they have an extra ticket to can be obvious to you, but so should other things like "Gee, we have been spending a lot of time together recently. We can't pretend things are on the same level as a month ago when what we do is more," or "We are spending more time together. She did give me that small V-day gift... and she told me with a wink that she'll buy me a steak next month and always loves to cook a great steak for a guy (Steak & BJ day is March 14th), and just asked me to go to a wedding, but said she just didn't want to go alone..." It's your responsibility to wind that down and distance yourself by actions you partake in, regardless of the words -- even if Steak & BJ day and free booze at a wedding sounds good to you! :)

I think you're saying "Hey, if it's okay to what I feel is not amping things up to ME, and I've told her before I'm not looking for couple-hood, it's her fault!" That's where I disagree -- things can be amped up without you knowing or wanting to know, and not be so much in that gray area. It's called having your cake (experiencing joys of folks who are a couple) and eating it too (not being a couple), letting things roll in that direction, regardless of your personal feelings about your comfort-zone.
 johninsd
Joined: 3/2/2009
Msg: 222
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/14/2010 6:26:31 PM

Friends first...it seems rather obvious, and in the real world it is. But when you meet someone online, what does "start with a friendship" mean? Who pays when you go out, what sort of contact (hand holding, hugging, kissing?) does a friendship entail? How long should the party who wants to start a relationship wait...men seem to think they will end up in the "friend zone" if romance doesn't happen right away. Do you agree?


I think this is a very good point!

My last ex was a friend first... not because it was planned, but that's just the way it happened.

I don't think you can force "friends first", though. If one person feels an attraction the other doesn't, the "friendship" is going to be very tenuous. If you meet someone as part of a dating situation, like from here, and both of you choose to "just be friends", I don't think it's particularly likely that you will both "grow to love" each other.

IMO, "friends first" is when you meet someone, you're friends, and then a relationship grows naturally.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 223
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What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/14/2010 6:41:10 PM
"friends first" is when you meet someone, you're friends, and then a relationship grows naturally."

Interesting....I don't agree nor disagree with that. Personally, the only problem I have with the those thing is the "first" because it implies or is sometimes even stated..."maybe more".

So when does the friends end and the "maybe more" start? I just think it unnecessarily complicates it because subconsciously the "maybe more" is hanging around in the back of your grey matter....haha.

I like to keep it simple, my profile states looking for friends and the text profile doesn't indicate anything else or different. Reason being I'm open to getting to know someone as a friend...PERIOD. If you have some subconscious "well what if" then it screws up just getting to know someone as you would a friend. I've seen a few other posts, and it makes the point of invoking the "dating BS stuff" into getting to know someone totally "new" to you.

My "new" friends don't call me darling, sexy, baby....they don't flirt or ask me how big my boobs are in the first few emails...ugh. It happens more often than I'd care to say, it's just fairly obvious that they aren't wanting to get to know ME, just wanting to know how soon they can make it to the "maybe more". I've never had that phrase on my profile, or hint at it, it is and can be totally great and enjoyable to enjoy someone's company without having to wonder what their hidden agenda is. It's rare that I have to wonder for long...ugh.

Just one woman's opinion and experience...
 johninsd
Joined: 3/2/2009
Msg: 224
What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/14/2010 7:03:06 PM

So when does the friends end and the "maybe more" start? I just think it unnecessarily complicates it because subconsciously the "maybe more" is hanging around in the back of your grey matter....haha.


I believe you are absolutely correct! You have to not be thinking about the "...or more" to really start a friendship.


I like to keep it simple, my profile states looking for friends and the text profile doesn't indicate anything else or different. Reason being I'm open to getting to know someone as a friend...PERIOD. If you have some subconscious "well what if" then it screws up just getting to know someone as you would a friend.


Yup. You do run the "risk" of potentially good people passing you by if you only have the "Friend" box checked, not dating or relationships or whatnot. But you already know that!

This is why I sometimes like to do random events, like from meetup or something... you're meeting people who enjoy camping or astronomy or cooking or whatever, instead of specifically looking to date. That's a much better way to find "friends first"!
 SanctumErased
Joined: 3/10/2010
Msg: 225
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What does Friends First really mean?
Posted: 4/14/2010 7:09:51 PM
Men being friends with a female without any attraction is almost unheard of. For a female it's pretty easy. A guy will always be attracted to a female one way or another, despite what the title is. I'm not saying this as an absolute, of course there are guys who want girls just to be friends, but honestly, if we're going by a dating site. Just squash the saying friends first, 99.9% of the time he's not here for a friend. Can't have your cake and eat it too, unless you're a damn good baker and you know your stuff.
Friends first is lame way to get to know someone, it'll always cause confusion, and you'll always second guess your thoughts and actions. I'm sorry but that's just the way it is. If you're already entering a place and expecting it to go this way, why tell him it has to go the other way first? I don't recall being able to go two ways in a one way street. Just saying.
But this thread will go on till the end of time because it basically boils down to people and their opinions, either way I'm taking the side of the "No, friends first doesn't make sense" Side.
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