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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 4:19:23 PM | Scotty, we've already proven evolution so please don't start that one again. It's been done to death, and you'll start that loony manhi off again. The 'theory' is as to *why* it happens, not whether it happens. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_theory_and_fact
There is a difference between teaching a child religion and teaching a child about religion. There is no more reason a child should be taught a certain religion as they should the manifesto of a particular political party. You can argue for both that they may have a valid viewpoint, but it's not what should be on the compulsory curricula. Education can quite happily exist outside the classroom, without state funding.
Phillip. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 4:30:02 PM | I work in an infant school where multi faith religious education is taught, the school has links with the local Cof E church but in a low key way. No child is forced to attend services, assemblies or lessons with a religious content. They (and their parents) have a choice. The ones who choose to exclude themselves most often on religious grounds are Jehovas Witnesses, the Brethren and Muslims. We have sikhs, hindus, christians, catholics, jews and christians who are all prepared to listen and visit the places of worship of other faiths and learn the ancient creation stories of the Aborigines or Inuits with no complaint. They are taught that we can all believe what we want to believe.  | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 5:10:20 PM | "I do wonder how long it would survive with less people taking it up year by year"
They were saying in the 60's that religion was a dead thing and would soon be gone for good. Still around. The Media, driven by self projection would have us believe ALL churches are empty, also not true..especially thanks to the influx of our Polish friends.
It's not true & i see many every sat & sun. Yes people have other things to do, but many are coming back in their adulthood & not because they are 'forced' or brainwashed..and many people these days could do with having their minds (and mouths) washed. Did the brainwashing of children and the 'forced' idea of Santa Claus on our babes and 5/6 year olds mean they will hold on to it forever or indeed bring them back into that belief when the problems of this world leave them needing another answer?? Clearly not. That would indeed be infantile. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 5:40:32 PM | True, but you don't get people calling you evil and saying you will roast in hell for not believing in Santa. That is what annoys me most about some and I mean some people who believe, I don't think anyone has the right to tell people they are condemned to eternal hell if they don't follow a faith. This comes from people who preach on the streets as well, there is someone who regularly preaches near my home town, he spreads the message of Jesus but it is made very clear in his sermon that unless you believe in God and allow yourself to be saved you will burn in hell. The message that gives out to me is that people should believe out of some fear, fear of what is going to happen to you if you remain a sinner and don't allow Jesus into your life.
Where on earth is the fun or joy in that message? I firmly respect everyone's right to believe in whatever faith they choose, but I think it's really sad that people make judgements and comments like that about people who don't believe in God.
Because no matter what we believe in, none of us knows what happens to us when we die. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 6:16:32 PM | That is their belief, why not just laugh when the preachers on the streets do what they do. The vast majority of religious people do not do that. Those who do are fervant in their desire to save you. If you want your belief to be left alone to go to hell or not..then you have to respect their beliefs too. The OP and others want religion banned from school as they don't believe in it. Their children may well do so. If they take that chance away until such time as they see fit, They will have their atheistic unbelief already indoctrinated into those children. And it has been pointed out that faith schools have better grades which IMO suggests that children are more balanced and happy..therefore getting better grades. Too many people want to put their adult views onto children because of things that 'they see' in the world. It's often ignorance!! Like telling children its because all the churches are empty, its because some evil people do evil things in the name of religion. Real religion and spiritual living is all about love and respect for all. It's a perfect desire for an imperfect world, but we have to try. That's the religion i love. The fear of the Lord is used as a stick to beat religionists with. Were we not all afraid of upsetting our parents in whatever form that was..this is not because parents were disgraceful ogres. I see it more as the 'respect of the Lord' But it's a bigger deeper respect and the consequences of my going to hell are massive for me..not cos my butt is burning but because i'll be seperated from Him. He is infinite love & will probably give me a chance even at the last to repent, but He's gonna know if its another lie to get what i want. He'll know the truth.  | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 6:43:59 PM | The thing is, school told me to believe in God, my mum didn't tell me not to believe in God, she told me I could make up my own mind, which I have. Many Christian people I know find it hard to believe that I do read about religion, various faiths. I have friends of many faiths and I do read widely. So, I was never indoctrinated into any athiest unbelief, but at school I was force fed religion. How has it been pointed out that faith schools have better grades, someone made a comment on it on the forum. I'm sorry but I really don't see how you can assume that people who follow a faith are more balanced and happy. The fact is, it's all about choice, and when parents and children more importantly have a choice as to whether they believe in a certain religion, that is absolutely fine. If they are told they have to believe in God because their parents do, that is wrong, that is then forcing your own belief system onto your child.
I have a friend who was brought up in a Jehovah household. She had no choice in the matter but as she grew up she didn't want to follow the religion. She and both her sisters ended up in care because her parents couldn't accept that they didn't want to follow the religion. One of her sisters died at 15 from leukaemia. Her parents turned up at the hospital on several occasions and were very unhappy that the youngest daughter was taking blood transfusions. The fact is, having no choice in what religion you follow may have no problems for many kids, but for some, it can cause upset and potential damage.
I think the original poster made some really valid points about why religion shouldn't be taught in schools.
If I had wanted to worship, my mum might not have been leaping cartwheels over it, but I'm sure she wouldn't have stopped me. I had plenty opportunity to worship as a child, I chose not to, I've been in relationships where the other person had a faith and it did cause problems. Not because that person believed in God, but because they believed in it when it suited them, they didn't go to church, hadn't been in 20 odd years yet took the moral high ground on a number of occasions when they felt like it. I would respect someone far more who believed and got on with it quietly, than someone who went to church never in a million years and thought they were better than me because they had been born into a religion that they no longer bothered with. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/12/2009 7:38:42 PM | Apart from the names of the people involved, and the places the stories started spreading from, there is little difference between almost all of the stories that we used to use to describe the world and how we got here.
Have a look at Joseph Campbell's 'Masks of God'. A wonderful comparison of all the world's mythologies. There's very little difference between the tales from cultures all over the world.
Robert Holcroft's 'Mythago Wood' has an even better description of how the idea's and concepts behind these different cultural expressions of the same stories would have evolved and changed according to the place and the environment they were told.
I'm of the opinion that the teaching of religion in schools in England is misplaced, as most of the schools that i've come across in England use some form of rote-teaching. It might be fine for helping learn to pronounce a language, and remember the times table, but it's not enough for teaching people how to communicate or when you should use one specific mathematical tool rather than another.
This goes even more so for teaching religion. Rote-learning of religion means you train a set of robots that can recite slogans effectively, but it doesn't prepare anyone for what it really means to be touched by the divine.
Teaching people to be ready to achieve the mindset that will allow that form of peak experience is something that can't be taught in that kind of school. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 1:06:07 AM | JUST ONE EXAMPLE FROM 'THE INDEPENDANT'
But Archbishop Nichols said: "In terms of improving community understanding, Catholic schools are not the problem; they are part of the solution."
A new report shows Catholic schools get better results for five to 16-year-olds than other schools and are more ethnically diverse. Catholic schools also scored better academic results at primary level and GCSE, behaviour was better and bullying was less of a problem, according to the report, Quality & Performance: A Survey of Education in Catholic Schools, which was based on official data taken from Ofsted, the schools inspectorate. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 1:20:29 AM | All schools in the UK teach about the most well known religions across the board and of equal proportion. Understanding about these religions gives greater understanding of how people live and why they do the things they do. It allows for acceptance, because without knowledge assumptions are made and often when you don't understand something you may reject it as an unknown quantity and all those that participate in it.
I went to a C of E school when I was a child and we did the usual things of celebrating Harvest Festival, Easter and Christmas. I know the stories and where I do consider them to be stories I don't think they did me any harm. I was certainly not forced to attend Church on a weekly basis, but the Church was part of the community. Remember that word 'community' something we seem to be losing.
My son due to circumstances has ended up at a Catholic school. He actually enjoys R.E and likes the debate that it allows. He recently told me that he likes the teacher he has now as he does not try and force religion down their throats, but looks at it obectively and informs them only. They are allowed to debate and question. My son does not believe in God, this is his choice and he has been allowed to come to this decision despite having religious education.
What do 5 year olds get from R.E? I think it's great that they get to make chinese lanterns and learn about what people do in China to celebrate the New Year, learn stories about the ox and the monkey and the race across the river. They are learning about people, the fact that the world doesn't end with them and that other people do things that we don't. How can that be a bad thing?
Abandoning religion in schools totally would also mean no more easter egg hunts, not more nativity plays, no more harvest festivals which again is a community thing, where children are often made aware of the elderly living in their area for the first time in their lives and that they suffer in the winter months. I personally loved learning about divali and making little clay lanterns, the story is a nice one. Plus when we live with people of different religions, isn't it helpful to know why some people aren't eating during day light and some are fasting? Even more so in fact!
Maybe we should stop people being allowed to christen their babies as they are not giving them a choice?
Religion is not history as it is current, it should be given it's place in education, so we can understand each other and not dismiss each other for being different without really understanding why.
Most religions are based on peace. If they were not manipulated then there would not be any war in the name of it. The Easter Story shows that Jesus got annoyed with his disciples for fighting the soldiers that were nailing him to the cross, he told them to stop. I interpret that to mean he doesn't believe in war, but then there are so many stories that can be manipulated to mean what you want, which is why I am not a religious person. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 1:33:05 AM | Imo Churches/temples etc are places where religion should be practiced and schools/colleges etc are places where education should be practiced.
Most faiths i can think of seek dominance and not equality therfore should have no place in our educational system where equality is one of its main principles!!
It never ceases to amaze me that those very people that kick off about their religions not being taught in our schools choose not to integrate outside of the school gates.
Selective integration when it is to their benefit will not work ..........you either totally integrate or you dont !!
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 1:58:04 AM | My ex partner and I sent our daghter to a state school. This being a typical London school, there she met people of diffent faiths.
Now, at 18 and with no religious school educations, I am glad to report she has asked her mother and I to have her baptise a Catholic. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 5:26:00 AM | Re: Message 8 January 2009
Religious Cermonies are part and parcel of a Catholic school. The purpose of sending them to the school is for the school to prepare them for their first penance, first communion and their confirmation. The parents of the one muslim girl who attended were more then aware of what would take place during school hours and rather then exclude her she was included in the serices without taking part. Her father happens to be my doctor and he was delighted with the education she received at the school.
Last night we attended my daughters first penance which was organised by the school. The theme of the night was forgivness and thanksgiving. The children were asked to reflect on when they might not have been kind or nice, etc.. small words used for them to understand. Each parent brought their child up to meet the priest and their first penance was made at the alter and not in a scary dark confessional box and when they were done the child and parent met back up and hugged. They then gave thanks for their teachers, their friends and family etc.
Their religious education is based on tolerance, love, understanding, being kind etc with the occasional stories from the bible thrown in. That kind of education is invaluable in my opinion. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 9:07:58 AM |
But Archbishop Nichols said: "In terms of improving community understanding, Catholic schools are not the problem; they are part of the solution."
Well he would support faith schools would he not, if he has a faith that is in alignment with what he is saying.
What is wrong with celebrating religions outside of the school curriculum after school finishes ie going to churches locally, or local community centre. Of course it is nice to celebrate christmas but what does christmas to do with our education as young adults. It is subjective to the individual, it is personal. All faiths should be able to have celebrations about christmas in schools if one faith does, where would that leave us, preparing from september for the annual christmas plays, of all the faiths in the school. And if we celebrate the special day of one faith what about all the other special days for the other faiths.
If as a community we wish to share our faith with our neighbour that is fantastic and what an experience for our children to be introduced to other communities and their way of life but is this the responsibility of the school. I was in the course of my families travels introduced to many different churches, cultures and religious ceremonies, learning how to behave in situations that were alien to me and my family during ceremonies and weddings. I appreciate many children do not travel and parents are less open to other cultures in some instances, but surely the way to reduce racial tension and religious division is to have non religious schools so children are taught the important lesson that we are all equal regardless of our beliefs. Not that some of us are going to hell if we don't believe, how pious is that! | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 11:35:34 AM | I see we are falling into off topic discussion about individual experiences and adult experiences which have no relevance to the topic at hand. Also, please consider that school may have changed a lot since you were at school, corporal punishment was not abolished that long ago.
I believe the pertinent views put forward are:
1: Schools should not teach anything about any religion.
2:Schools should continue to educate people in religion.
3:Schools should have heavy religious themes and no science.
Please accept my apologies if i mis-interpret/ mis-represent anyone's views or fail to understand the context with which any statements are made.
1:
I think the biggest argument to support this statement is that religious education is a waste of time, why should my child learn about it?
The problem with this argument is, that you are presenting an option that fits 1 individual's circumstance to solve a problem within a society consisting of 60m+ people. By making it the responsibility of the parent, you no longer ensure that all children are brought up appreciating the cultural diversity around them which is ESSENTIAL for the co-existence of multiple diverse cultures.
The moment this is no longer managed centrally, you have big problems. I'd prefer to live in a society where i know that people are recieving some religious education because it is provided by schools, than potentially be surrounded by ignorance.
Also, i think you should consider that religious education provides important moral, philosophical and psychological insight. There is obvious educational and cultural merit to religious education. Also, if you study this at GCSE level, an A* is an A* regardless of what it is in and you don't have to study RE at GCSE level. If you want to get into college and UNI, all you need to do well in is GCSEs, as long as the curriculumn has the potential to provide it, with the benefits of RE.
As far as i am concerned as an individual, the last 3 years of school for me was a waste of time. I could have been doing a technical qualification in the field i am currently working in. so, i don't believe the school curriculum is really that vital to achieving in life, but i'm just one person and some people need the institution that is school.
I can't help but ask, how does exercise have any more place in a school than religious education?
2: Is pretty much where we are now, so not really much to comment on.
3: Only private, none-state funded schools will be able to do this and it would not be classed as schooling as they could not deliver a valid curiculum. You could go down the home schooling route with this however again, this is non-compulsory and at the parents discression.
The government would never be able to go down this route so it's a non-starter really. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 12:11:17 PM | If parents want to send their children to a faith school then they should be allowed to do that.
What im against is the non faith schools encouraging children to practice religion/worship in the school. For example, my daughters school is not a faith school, just a normal everyday national curriculum school though run by a Christain fundamentalist head teacher. This head insists on running bible study groups in the school, she also sets all her assemblies bassed on worship of a Christian God. I was angry when my daughter came home with bible study work to do for homework. This teacher was assuming every household owned a bible. As my children and i are not Christians i feel rather disgusted at this. Since then i have had my daughter removed from religious education in the school as it was biased towards Christianity, leaving out other faiths. Both of my children were excussed from assemblies due to the fact they were Christain based.
Back in Birmingham where i originaly come from, schoos didnt do all this Christianity in assemblies like they do here in Wales. Assemblies back there were multi faith which is how it should be, they were bassed on good morals, giving out awards to the children who had achieved that week, if there were any festivals such as Eid, Diwali, midsummers day (yes the last school they went to celebrated with bbq's and dancing for a pagan sabbat which i thought was brilliant), xmas etc then there would be a story, maybe food tasting sessions, dance, performance by an outside group etc but none of the children were forced to worship.
Education should be multi faith, of course unless parents choose one faith school which is their choice. I really am uncomfortable with faith and religion being forced on children by schools and it seems to come mostly from the Christians in our society, their need to preach and convert all the time. There is also a lot of discrimination still regarding my faith and my daughters (chosen by her choice alone) which is so unfair.
If of course there were pagan faith schools id sign my two up straight away, so i have no problem with parents wanting to send their children to faith schools. I myself have worked in a mainly muslim school and never experienced any problems with that. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 12:17:10 PM | i thought the idea of a faith based school is that they abide by the principles of that religion.
i.e. if its a decent christian school its not teaching kids about sex and masturbation before they are even ten.hopefully there is a better selection of classroom companions/schoolfriends as well.your also less likely to be ridiculed for your faith,race or religion etc.
if you object or don't agree with these schools,don't send your kids there.you have the same choice as the parents who wish to send their kids there in the first place. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 1:09:13 PM | so Snazzy, are you saying that a decent Christian school wouldnt teach children about reproduction? How do you explain to a 6 year old to keep the boy hampster seperate from the lady hamspter if you cant teach them the basics of reproduction. Should we remove science from the curriculum and stop children from naming the parts of a flower and discovering how more plants and flowers grow? Its nature, you cant stop children from learning that and lets hope no one ever thinks that.
Saying that though i do know of an extreme Christian fundy school in the midlands that refuse to teach the theory of evolution, they have to stick to good ol Adam and Eve and virgin births - now thats gonna mess with a kids mind im sure.
Iv never heard such a pathetic reason for sending children to a faith school. If it wasnt for sex they wouldnt be in school in the first place, where do you tell them they come from when asked, the gooseberry bush or a stalk dropped them down the chimney for goodness sake. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 2:12:05 PM | The State education system (and that includes most "faith" schools) is funded to a greater or lesser degree by the State.
The State is Protestant Christian with the Head of State also the Head of the Established (Protestant) Church.
As far as I know, the Law that says every school day shall include an act of corporate worship hasn't been repealed.
As long as the above statements hold true, then religion has a place in "educational establishments". He who pays the piper calls the tune.
If you feel that the education of your child should not include any mention of religion then you have a few choices:
1. Remove them from any RE lessons (it is Religious Education nowadays, not Religious Instruction) and have them grow up ignorant of the cultural ethos of their country, ignorant of the religions of the world with all its diverse inhabitants and ignorant of many of the cultural references that enrich art, music and literature.
Yes, it would also involve removing them from all the "liberal" subjects. Mathematics too (the Ancient Greeks believed the regularity of the world that could be expressed in mathematical form was proof of God's order). And physics (how can you teach about the history of gravity without mention of the "heretic" Galileo?)
2. Remove them from the state school system entirely and educate them at home where you can control by what ethical basis they live their life in a Christian country.
3. Closely monitor the books they read, the TV they watch, the music they listen to, the children they play with, in order to avoid any religious references that might involve them having questions to ask that you might not want them to learn the answers to.
Alternatively you could take an interest in what your child is taught and help them to question everything they hear, to develop a logical and critical way of thinking that will stand them in good stead for the business of living in the real world, not the cloistered (no religious reference intended) life of a blinkered innocent. You can show them by the way you lead your life what is meant by the religion you choose to follow, and if (for example) you happen to be a divorced Catholic, you can show that sometimes a person's happiness and fulfilment comes from within themself, not from any outside laws that dictate a person's life and so admit that there may not be absolutes in our ethics and morals - our way of life that constitutes our "religion".
Unless of course you are a fundamentalist and absolutely, with no exceptions, follow the tenets of your faith. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 3:38:30 PM | My children have been removed from worship since we moved to Wales as it is all Christian bassed. My daughter who is in junior school has now been removed from religious education too because it was all Christian taught by a christian fundy teacher and head and nothing but Christian. She actualy got told off for not closing her eyes and putting her hands together in the class prayer at the close of day, im not having my daughter told off for doing something unatural to her, why should she be forced to pray that way to a God she dosnt know about? I soon put a stop to that. I dont think the school have ever had a non christian before, its so white, middle class, christian up here its unbelievable.
I want my children to know about all faiths. When i lived in Birmingham i would take them to Eid festivals, Chinese new year, Diwali celebrations to look at the lights etc as well as our own pagan festivals. I even take them to look round churches and other places of worship when i get the chance. I dont like what the schools here do. I wish the schools here in Wales were more tollerant of other faiths and not so Christian. I guess its a bit of a culture shock to us moving from a very open minded multi cultrual area like Birmingham to a place that is still living in the past and sees only one way - Jesus's way which isnt our way. I really feel for the families of the two children who moved up here who are Hindu, their children are forced to take part in assemblies and pray to a Christian God who they probably dont pray to at home, why do they do it? Cause like my daughter the teacher tells them off if they refuse. Its not acceptable.
My son is old enough to choose for himself now, (in fact iv always encouraged my two to choose their own pathway) he really impressed his RE teacher when he told her he was agnostic, not sure she was too thrilled about the pentagrams he drew all over his RE book though. But saying that it did raise a discussion in the classroom about Paganism which has to be a positive thing id say. About time the RE teacher got challenged id say. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 4:19:47 PM | Re 74
Who on earth do you think funds the government and what do our taxes pay for, the council tax ..... they all go towards education. So I agree he who pays the piper pays the tune, therefore parents should have more say in school curriculums. Cultural education is one thing that I totally agree with but I am not in agreement with a biased and unfair education. To include all the religions in the world would mean to teach about all of the following:
Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.5 billion
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
primal-indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand
Do our schools really have time to educate our children in these religions? Look at what segregation has done for Northern Ireland, how beneficial has that been to the Irish communities. Centuries of squabbling, fighting and murdering. Look at the Palestine and Israel. Is this what we want for our children as our society becomes increasingly multicultural. That was my main point. Does a religious bias help educate our children to integrate with other communities or cultures. Personally I think not. Look at the historical facts and the issues that have caused most of the conflicts around the world. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/13/2009 11:44:26 PM | Firstly, please let me say that I do not agree with indoctrination or the teaching of "my way is the right way" in any school subject, so any parent who is complaining of close-minded educational practices has my sympathetic support and sympathetic indignation. However, one of the purposes of education is the transmission of the country's culture to the newer generation.
Msg 76:
Who on earth do you think funds the government and what do our taxes pay for, the council tax ..... they all go towards education. So I agree he who pays the piper pays the tune, therefore parents should have more say in school curriculums
The nature of democracy is that the Government is elected to represent the wishes of the whole population. (I certainly do not want to debate the nature of democracy that allows a minority of the population to elect a government because of apathy of others though, that's another thread!)
70% of the (adult) population of England and Wales describe themself as Christian, according to the 2001 census.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=395
Also according to that census 20% of the population is under 16 (and therefore between the ages of 5 and 16 in education) and 20% is over retirement (and therefore tax-paying) age.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=6
The majority of those actually paying the piper therefore would seem to be paying for the children of someone else to receive an education, and according to their stated belief would probably expect the tune to be broadly Christian-based.
If a parent wishes to have a particular say in the education of their child(ren) then Msg 74 expresses my ideas of the extreme limits a parent could go to to avoid Christian teaching, but more moderately perhaps a parent could consider involvement with the school governing body. | |
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| Religion -should it be banned from educational establishments.
Posted: 3/14/2009 1:55:26 AM | | I am not religious in any way but I do respect parents rights to choose whether or not to send their child to a faith based school. I wouldn't send my child to one but that's my choice. I do think that religion should be studied in schools in order to allow our children to understand cultural and religious diversity as we live in a multicultural society. Just because the children understand how a particular faith works doesn't mean they have to follow it. Choosing to follow a faith is a matter of personal preference and upbringing. | |
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